[AFMUG] Quora Question on Being an ISP... Special notice of the Level 3 mentioned response...

[Robert]

I like the guy who says 10K customers or go home (paraphrased)...

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-for-me-to-become-my-own-Internet-service-provider-ISP-What-exactly-are-we-paying-AT-T-Verizon-and-other-ISPs-to-do-Precisely-how-do-they-provide-Internet-service

Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

[Mathew Howard]

I never heard anything official, but I suspect they did change the jacks on
the newer radios.

https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF5X-Ethernet-Problems/m-p/1823795/highlight/true#M34182


On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Adair Winter 
wrote:

> Yep, that's the common problem.
> to my knowledge UBNT has not changed the jack on the radio.
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:04 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  > wrote:
>
>> OK, i just got back down from the tower, took up a spare AF5X with me.
>> When i got to the top the original radio was powered up and RF was linked
>> but data port light not lit. I pushed up on the CAT5 and i could feel the
>> connector move in the socket a little deeper and the link light came on.
>> Pulled it down a little and link light went back out. I then un-mounted the
>> radio from the antenna and repeated this several times and with the
>> pushing/pulling on the connector and it would repeatedly lose link light
>> when i pulled down on connector. Swapped the radio with a brand new one and
>> tried pulling/pushing on connector and this one would not lose the link
>> light. I also could tell this radio's ethernet port felt a little more snug
>> with less movement on the connector. Did UBNT change the ethernet port at
>> some point in production on these radios??? The old radio's MAC
>> is: 04:18:D6:E3:56:76
>>
>> Also i did have a service loop on the ethernet wire at the top so there
>> was definitely not excessive pull on the RJ45 connector however i did not
>> have a zip tie holding the ethernet tight as it went into the radio.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:51 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
>>
>>> LOL did that with the very last pair I ever tried but it was -16 with
>>> -36 wind chill
>>>
>>> That pair flew off the tower, and still have one pair to get rid of
>>>
>>> First pair I could never get to connect second pair got connected to
>>>
>>> a tower 3 miles away to test then it got cold (LOL Minnesota Winter)
>>>
>>> and the Ethernet failed was so mad I threw them off the tower
>>>
>>> and it warmed my heart lol
>>>
>>> Mitch Koep
>>>
>>> 218-851-8689 cell
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/2/2018 10:02 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>>>
 Has anyone else seen AF5X radios that starting dropping ethernet in
 cold weather? We have been having sub zero temps at night past week and i
 have 2 towers that had an AF5X radio that the ethernet decided to drop out.
 One tower cleared itself up on its own after 2 days, another one just
 started this morning. Looks like i am going to have to climb to replace a
 radio and its freaking -5 degrees out right now.

>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Adair Winter
> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
> http://www.amarillowireless.net
> 
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

[Mathew Howard]

I never heard anything official, but I suspect they did change the jacks on
the newer radios.

https://community.ubnt.com/t5/airFiber/AF5X-Ethernet-Problems/m-p/1823795/highlight/true#M34182


On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Adair Winter 
wrote:

> Yep, that's the common problem.
> to my knowledge UBNT has not changed the jack on the radio.
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:04 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  > wrote:
>
>> OK, i just got back down from the tower, took up a spare AF5X with me.
>> When i got to the top the original radio was powered up and RF was linked
>> but data port light not lit. I pushed up on the CAT5 and i could feel the
>> connector move in the socket a little deeper and the link light came on.
>> Pulled it down a little and link light went back out. I then un-mounted the
>> radio from the antenna and repeated this several times and with the
>> pushing/pulling on the connector and it would repeatedly lose link light
>> when i pulled down on connector. Swapped the radio with a brand new one and
>> tried pulling/pushing on connector and this one would not lose the link
>> light. I also could tell this radio's ethernet port felt a little more snug
>> with less movement on the connector. Did UBNT change the ethernet port at
>> some point in production on these radios??? The old radio's MAC
>> is: 04:18:D6:E3:56:76
>>
>> Also i did have a service loop on the ethernet wire at the top so there
>> was definitely not excessive pull on the RJ45 connector however i did not
>> have a zip tie holding the ethernet tight as it went into the radio.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:51 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
>>
>>> LOL did that with the very last pair I ever tried but it was -16 with
>>> -36 wind chill
>>>
>>> That pair flew off the tower, and still have one pair to get rid of
>>>
>>> First pair I could never get to connect second pair got connected to
>>>
>>> a tower 3 miles away to test then it got cold (LOL Minnesota Winter)
>>>
>>> and the Ethernet failed was so mad I threw them off the tower
>>>
>>> and it warmed my heart lol
>>>
>>> Mitch Koep
>>>
>>> 218-851-8689 cell
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/2/2018 10:02 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>>>
 Has anyone else seen AF5X radios that starting dropping ethernet in
 cold weather? We have been having sub zero temps at night past week and i
 have 2 towers that had an AF5X radio that the ethernet decided to drop out.
 One tower cleared itself up on its own after 2 days, another one just
 started this morning. Looks like i am going to have to climb to replace a
 radio and its freaking -5 degrees out right now.

>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Adair Winter
> VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
> Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071 <(806)%20316-5071>
> C: 806.231.7180 <(806)%20231-7180>
> http://www.amarillowireless.net
> 
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

[Adair Winter]

Yep, that's the common problem.
to my knowledge UBNT has not changed the jack on the radio.

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:04 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> OK, i just got back down from the tower, took up a spare AF5X with me.
> When i got to the top the original radio was powered up and RF was linked
> but data port light not lit. I pushed up on the CAT5 and i could feel the
> connector move in the socket a little deeper and the link light came on.
> Pulled it down a little and link light went back out. I then un-mounted the
> radio from the antenna and repeated this several times and with the
> pushing/pulling on the connector and it would repeatedly lose link light
> when i pulled down on connector. Swapped the radio with a brand new one and
> tried pulling/pushing on connector and this one would not lose the link
> light. I also could tell this radio's ethernet port felt a little more snug
> with less movement on the connector. Did UBNT change the ethernet port at
> some point in production on these radios??? The old radio's MAC
> is: 04:18:D6:E3:56:76
>
> Also i did have a service loop on the ethernet wire at the top so there
> was definitely not excessive pull on the RJ45 connector however i did not
> have a zip tie holding the ethernet tight as it went into the radio.
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:51 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:
>
>> LOL did that with the very last pair I ever tried but it was -16 with -36
>> wind chill
>>
>> That pair flew off the tower, and still have one pair to get rid of
>>
>> First pair I could never get to connect second pair got connected to
>>
>> a tower 3 miles away to test then it got cold (LOL Minnesota Winter)
>>
>> and the Ethernet failed was so mad I threw them off the tower
>>
>> and it warmed my heart lol
>>
>> Mitch Koep
>>
>> 218-851-8689 cell
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/2/2018 10:02 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone else seen AF5X radios that starting dropping ethernet in cold
>>> weather? We have been having sub zero temps at night past week and i have 2
>>> towers that had an AF5X radio that the ethernet decided to drop out. One
>>> tower cleared itself up on its own after 2 days, another one just started
>>> this morning. Looks like i am going to have to climb to replace a radio and
>>> its freaking -5 degrees out right now.
>>>
>>
>>
>


-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

[Kurt Fankhauser]

OK, i just got back down from the tower, took up a spare AF5X with me. When
i got to the top the original radio was powered up and RF was linked but
data port light not lit. I pushed up on the CAT5 and i could feel the
connector move in the socket a little deeper and the link light came on.
Pulled it down a little and link light went back out. I then un-mounted the
radio from the antenna and repeated this several times and with the
pushing/pulling on the connector and it would repeatedly lose link light
when i pulled down on connector. Swapped the radio with a brand new one and
tried pulling/pushing on connector and this one would not lose the link
light. I also could tell this radio's ethernet port felt a little more snug
with less movement on the connector. Did UBNT change the ethernet port at
some point in production on these radios??? The old radio's MAC
is: 04:18:D6:E3:56:76

Also i did have a service loop on the ethernet wire at the top so there was
definitely not excessive pull on the RJ45 connector however i did not have
a zip tie holding the ethernet tight as it went into the radio.

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:51 PM, Mitch Koep  wrote:

> LOL did that with the very last pair I ever tried but it was -16 with -36
> wind chill
>
> That pair flew off the tower, and still have one pair to get rid of
>
> First pair I could never get to connect second pair got connected to
>
> a tower 3 miles away to test then it got cold (LOL Minnesota Winter)
>
> and the Ethernet failed was so mad I threw them off the tower
>
> and it warmed my heart lol
>
> Mitch Koep
>
> 218-851-8689 cell
>
>
>
> On 1/2/2018 10:02 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>
>> Has anyone else seen AF5X radios that starting dropping ethernet in cold
>> weather? We have been having sub zero temps at night past week and i have 2
>> towers that had an AF5X radio that the ethernet decided to drop out. One
>> tower cleared itself up on its own after 2 days, another one just started
>> this morning. Looks like i am going to have to climb to replace a radio and
>> its freaking -5 degrees out right now.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

[Mitch Koep]

LOL did that with the very last pair I ever tried but it was -16 with 
-36 wind chill


That pair flew off the tower, and still have one pair to get rid of

First pair I could never get to connect second pair got connected to

a tower 3 miles away to test then it got cold (LOL Minnesota Winter)

and the Ethernet failed was so mad I threw them off the tower

and it warmed my heart lol

Mitch Koep

218-851-8689 cell


On 1/2/2018 10:02 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
Has anyone else seen AF5X radios that starting dropping ethernet in 
cold weather? We have been having sub zero temps at night past week 
and i have 2 towers that had an AF5X radio that the ethernet decided 
to drop out. One tower cleared itself up on its own after 2 days, 
another one just started this morning. Looks like i am going to have 
to climb to replace a radio and its freaking -5 degrees out right now.

Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

[Mathew Howard]

On some of the AF-5X radios, it only takes a tiny bit of movement for them
to start acting up. I've had it happen on just from wind during the summer,
even though the cable appeared to be secured pretty well. So yeah,
shrinkage can easily be enough to cause problems.

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:38 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I once found a formula for calculating the amount of shrinkage in metal
> due a temperature drop.  I don't remember the exact numbers, but basically
> 150' long strip of copper is a few inches shorter on a very cold day
> compared to a very hot day.  The shrinking is driven by a nearly
> irresistible nuclear force.  The cable should stretch a little too so it's
> not like all of that travel happens at the ends, but even a mm of tug with
> irresistible force behind it would unplug ethernet.  It might even be a
> bigger deal if the port is "finicky" as some people are saying.
>
> So yeah, everything everyone said already.  Slack loop, secure cable, etc.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mathew Howard" 
> To: "af" 
> Sent: 1/2/2018 11:20:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems
>
> Yeah, you most likely don't need to replace the radio.
>
> I think the recommended fix is to put a zip tie around the cable, just
> inside the cover on the radio (so it keeps up pressure on the cable
> directly into the ethernet port) - that has worked out very well for me.
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> It's probably the temperature playing with the metal connectors changing
>> the shape enough to go down.
>>
>> There is a known problem with the ethernet connectors on AF5x being
>> finicky. Make sure all your cables have "UP" pressure so gravity or other
>> forces don't pull the cable or wiggle in the ethernet port. Take extra care
>> to secure the cable so it doesn't hang or blow in the wind. Basically you
>> should not be able to wiggle the cable much by hand when you're done
>> securing it with plenty of upward pressure.
>>
>> Dielectric grease may also be a good thing to put on the connector pins
>> as well.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Kurt Fankhauser <
>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone else seen AF5X radios that starting dropping ethernet in cold
>>> weather? We have been having sub zero temps at night past week and i have 2
>>> towers that had an AF5X radio that the ethernet decided to drop out. One
>>> tower cleared itself up on its own after 2 days, another one just started
>>> this morning. Looks like i am going to have to climb to replace a radio and
>>> its freaking -5 degrees out right now.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Darin Steffl
>> Minnesota WiFi
>> www.mnwifi.com
>> 507-634-WiFi
>>  Like us on Facebook
>> 
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

[Adam Moffett]

I once found a formula for calculating the amount of shrinkage in metal 
due a temperature drop.  I don't remember the exact numbers, but 
basically 150' long strip of copper is a few inches shorter on a very 
cold day compared to a very hot day.  The shrinking is driven by a 
nearly irresistible nuclear force.  The cable should stretch a little 
too so it's not like all of that travel happens at the ends, but even a 
mm of tug with irresistible force behind it would unplug ethernet.  It 
might even be a bigger deal if the port is "finicky" as some people are 
saying.


So yeah, everything everyone said already.  Slack loop, secure cable, 
etc.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mathew Howard" 
To: "af" 
Sent: 1/2/2018 11:20:21 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems


Yeah, you most likely don't need to replace the radio.

I think the recommended fix is to put a zip tie around the cable, just 
inside the cover on the radio (so it keeps up pressure on the cable 
directly into the ethernet port) - that has worked out very well for 
me.


On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Darin Steffl  
wrote:
It's probably the temperature playing with the metal connectors 
changing the shape enough to go down.


There is a known problem with the ethernet connectors on AF5x being 
finicky. Make sure all your cables have "UP" pressure so gravity or 
other forces don't pull the cable or wiggle in the ethernet port. Take 
extra care to secure the cable so it doesn't hang or blow in the wind. 
Basically you should not be able to wiggle the cable much by hand when 
you're done securing it with plenty of upward pressure.


Dielectric grease may also be a good thing to put on the connector 
pins as well.


On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
 wrote:
Has anyone else seen AF5X radios that starting dropping ethernet in 
cold weather? We have been having sub zero temps at night past week 
and i have 2 towers that had an AF5X radio that the ethernet decided 
to drop out. One tower cleared itself up on its own after 2 days, 
another one just started this morning. Looks like i am going to have 
to climb to replace a radio and its freaking -5 degrees out right 
now.




--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook 

Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

[Jeremy]

We had some that did not like cheap shielded connectors.  After awhile they
would fail, and then we replaced them with a better quality of shielded
RJ45s.  Haven't bothered us since.

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 9:20 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Yeah, you most likely don't need to replace the radio.
>
> I think the recommended fix is to put a zip tie around the cable, just
> inside the cover on the radio (so it keeps up pressure on the cable
> directly into the ethernet port) - that has worked out very well for me.
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> It's probably the temperature playing with the metal connectors changing
>> the shape enough to go down.
>>
>> There is a known problem with the ethernet connectors on AF5x being
>> finicky. Make sure all your cables have "UP" pressure so gravity or other
>> forces don't pull the cable or wiggle in the ethernet port. Take extra care
>> to secure the cable so it doesn't hang or blow in the wind. Basically you
>> should not be able to wiggle the cable much by hand when you're done
>> securing it with plenty of upward pressure.
>>
>> Dielectric grease may also be a good thing to put on the connector pins
>> as well.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Kurt Fankhauser <
>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone else seen AF5X radios that starting dropping ethernet in cold
>>> weather? We have been having sub zero temps at night past week and i have 2
>>> towers that had an AF5X radio that the ethernet decided to drop out. One
>>> tower cleared itself up on its own after 2 days, another one just started
>>> this morning. Looks like i am going to have to climb to replace a radio and
>>> its freaking -5 degrees out right now.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Darin Steffl
>> Minnesota WiFi
>> www.mnwifi.com
>> 507-634-WiFi
>>  Like us on Facebook
>> 
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah, you most likely don't need to replace the radio.

I think the recommended fix is to put a zip tie around the cable, just
inside the cover on the radio (so it keeps up pressure on the cable
directly into the ethernet port) - that has worked out very well for me.

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> It's probably the temperature playing with the metal connectors changing
> the shape enough to go down.
>
> There is a known problem with the ethernet connectors on AF5x being
> finicky. Make sure all your cables have "UP" pressure so gravity or other
> forces don't pull the cable or wiggle in the ethernet port. Take extra care
> to secure the cable so it doesn't hang or blow in the wind. Basically you
> should not be able to wiggle the cable much by hand when you're done
> securing it with plenty of upward pressure.
>
> Dielectric grease may also be a good thing to put on the connector pins as
> well.
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Kurt Fankhauser  > wrote:
>
>> Has anyone else seen AF5X radios that starting dropping ethernet in cold
>> weather? We have been having sub zero temps at night past week and i have 2
>> towers that had an AF5X radio that the ethernet decided to drop out. One
>> tower cleared itself up on its own after 2 days, another one just started
>> this morning. Looks like i am going to have to climb to replace a radio and
>> its freaking -5 degrees out right now.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
>  Like us on Facebook
> 
>

Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

[Darin Steffl]

It's probably the temperature playing with the metal connectors changing
the shape enough to go down.

There is a known problem with the ethernet connectors on AF5x being
finicky. Make sure all your cables have "UP" pressure so gravity or other
forces don't pull the cable or wiggle in the ethernet port. Take extra care
to secure the cable so it doesn't hang or blow in the wind. Basically you
should not be able to wiggle the cable much by hand when you're done
securing it with plenty of upward pressure.

Dielectric grease may also be a good thing to put on the connector pins as
well.

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> Has anyone else seen AF5X radios that starting dropping ethernet in cold
> weather? We have been having sub zero temps at night past week and i have 2
> towers that had an AF5X radio that the ethernet decided to drop out. One
> tower cleared itself up on its own after 2 days, another one just started
> this morning. Looks like i am going to have to climb to replace a radio and
> its freaking -5 degrees out right now.
>



-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

[Adair Winter]

The AF5X have finicky ethernet problems. more then likely the cold problem
has to do with the cable moving or shrinking. ensureing the cable is secure
and tight is the best bet. We coil the cable up and attache it to the back
of the radio

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> Has anyone else seen AF5X radios that starting dropping ethernet in cold
> weather? We have been having sub zero temps at night past week and i have 2
> towers that had an AF5X radio that the ethernet decided to drop out. One
> tower cleared itself up on its own after 2 days, another one just started
> this morning. Looks like i am going to have to climb to replace a radio and
> its freaking -5 degrees out right now.
>



-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

Re: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

There were some radios that had loose ethernet connectors.  Perhaps ice on the 
cable has pulled down on it and made a poor connection.

Jim Bouse
Owner
Brazos WiFi – Fast and Reliable Internet
979-985-5912
j...@brazoswifi.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 10:02 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

Has anyone else seen AF5X radios that starting dropping ethernet in cold 
weather? We have been having sub zero temps at night past week and i have 2 
towers that had an AF5X radio that the ethernet decided to drop out. One tower 
cleared itself up on its own after 2 days, another one just started this 
morning. Looks like i am going to have to climb to replace a radio and its 
freaking -5 degrees out right now.

[AFMUG] AF5X cold weather ethernet problems

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Has anyone else seen AF5X radios that starting dropping ethernet in cold
weather? We have been having sub zero temps at night past week and i have 2
towers that had an AF5X radio that the ethernet decided to drop out. One
tower cleared itself up on its own after 2 days, another one just started
this morning. Looks like i am going to have to climb to replace a radio and
its freaking -5 degrees out right now.