[AFMUG] BGP Timers

[Adair Winter]

Does anyone ever modify the default bgp keep-alive and hold timers in order
to facilitate a faster fail over time when peer drops?
Waiting the default three minutes seems like a very long time.

-- 

Adair Winter
VP, Network Operations / Co-Owner
Amarillo Wireless | 806.316.5071
C: 806.231.7180
http://www.amarillowireless.net

Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net Neutrality - The New York Times

[Brian Webster]

The problem I see with NN is the customer will never understand it properly. 
They will make demands that their 1 meg connection should be as good as someone 
who pays for a 100 meg or 1 gig connection. They will say the others are 
getting priority and not them and as such violating NN. The whole concept of 
“fast lanes” is really just buying more bandwidth. While I do acknowledge you 
can put various interfaces in priority, unless you actually get more bandwidth 
I question how effective that would be without the extra purchased capacity. 

 

The other aspect of this whole debate is that the public and I dare say some 
ISP’s have lost sight of the fact that if there are unfair business practices, 
that is under the authority of the Feral Trade Commission, not the FCC. The FCC 
jumped in to this and overextended their authority, but hey that is what people 
in power try to do to develop their little kingdoms and power base.

 

As others have said, this was not a problem before and the free market and 
competition will keep it from being a problem in the future. I sure as hell 
would not want the government telling me how to run my network that I built 
with my money. The public still does not understand that there is no public 
internet, it’s just a system of interconnected private networks build with 
private money (excepting some last mile grant funded projects). How a carrier 
wants to manage their network traffic is up to them. If they don’t do a good 
job customers will walk. If word gets out that a network operator conducts 
unfair practices, word will get out and fast. Customers will be in an uproar 
and they will crucify said carrier/ISP. Social media has a way of making that 
happen overnight.  

 

Having mapped and tracked carrier data for many years now and for 5 of those 
years having access to data under NDA, I personally saw over time carriers that 
had various markets locked up with almost no competition still innovate, 
upgrade and improve their networks. This was due to customer demand and market 
changes. These carriers could have sat back and not spent money upgrading 
speeds and network infrastructure and just kept collecting money from the 
customer base, yet they did not. So the big carrier boogeyman syndrome that 
people are worried about happening, just is going to happen. I am more worried 
about the content providers like Facebook and Google being the evil ones, if 
that ever comes to pass.

 

Let’s not let our distaste for competitors cloud the overwhelming amount of 
hard data that is out there that speaks to the contrary.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 5:05 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net Neutrality - The 
New York Times

 

Disney pioneered this  

 

From: Mathew Howard 

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 3:01 PM

To: af 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net Neutrality - The 
New York Times

 

Well, I don't know... paying extra to get to the front of the line at Burger 
king doesn't sound like such a bad idea to me... they just have to market it 
properly, and call it a discount for going to the back of the line, and people 
would be perfectly happy.

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:

lmao 

it just got downright stupid

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180124005145/en/BURGER-KING%C2%AE-Brand-Takes-Net-Neutrality-%E2%80%9CWHOPPER%C2%AE

how about that TSA fast lane thing, hows that work? Ipass for toll roads? Hell, 
even 8 items or less express lanes at the supermarkets

 

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Layne Sisk  wrote:

Exactly, has anyone seen any changes since NN was overturned?  Nope, and they 
won’t.  The free market will control it.  

 

Layne Sisk

ServerPlus

801.426.8283, ext 102  

  New logo xl

 http://i.imgur.com/VOz763A.png

  http://i.imgur.com/xvQYYWa.png

  http://i.imgur.com/ELG0AB1.png

Utah 100   fast50-01Inc 5000

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:11 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net Neutrality - The 
New York Times

 

I think there is NN irrespective of whatever laws they pass.  Market forces 
will cause it to happen.  

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 9:26 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net Neutrality - The 
New York Times

 

Chuck said the NN thing is over 

How would this be enforced on the cellular side. Sprints offering cap free 
netflix, isnt that a violation of NN?

If state funding has 

Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net Neutrality - The New York Times

[Cameron Crum]

They do it at Six Flags too...Fast Pass. Where is the outrage!

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Disney pioneered this
>
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2018 3:01 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net
> Neutrality - The New York Times
>
> Well, I don't know... paying extra to get to the front of the line at
> Burger king doesn't sound like such a bad idea to me... they just have to
> market it properly, and call it a discount for going to the back of the
> line, and people would be perfectly happy.
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> lmao
>> it just got downright stupid
>> https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180124005145/en/BUR
>> GER-KING%C2%AE-Brand-Takes-Net-Neutrality-%E2%80%9CWHOPPER%C2%AE
>> how about that TSA fast lane thing, hows that work? Ipass for toll roads?
>> Hell, even 8 items or less express lanes at the supermarkets
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Layne Sisk 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Exactly, has anyone seen any changes since NN was overturned?  Nope, and
>>> they won’t.  The free market will control it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Layne Sisk
>>>
>>> ServerPlus
>>>
>>> 801.426.8283, ext 102 <801.426.8283%2C%20ext%20102>
>>>
>>> [image: New logo xl] 
>>>
>>> [image: http://i.imgur.com/VOz763A.png]
>>>
>>> [image: http://i.imgur.com/xvQYYWa.png]
>>> 
>>>
>>> [image: http://i.imgur.com/ELG0AB1.png]
>>> 
>>>
>>> [image: Utah 100]   [image: fast50-01][image: Inc 5000]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:11 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net
>>> Neutrality - The New York Times
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think there is NN irrespective of whatever laws they pass.  Market
>>> forces will cause it to happen.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 9:26 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net
>>> Neutrality - The New York Times
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck said the NN thing is over
>>>
>>> How would this be enforced on the cellular side. Sprints offering cap
>>> free netflix, isnt that a violation of NN?
>>>
>>> If state funding has gone into any "coops" like it has here, how does
>>> that work if the "coop" no longer chooses to abide by NN. Can montana
>>> retroactively alter the contract?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 22, 2018 10:00 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/technology/montana-net
>>> -neutrality.html?referer=https://news.google.com/
>>>
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net Neutrality - The New York Times

[Chuck McCown]

Disney pioneered this  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 3:01 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net Neutrality - The 
New York Times

Well, I don't know... paying extra to get to the front of the line at Burger 
king doesn't sound like such a bad idea to me... they just have to market it 
properly, and call it a discount for going to the back of the line, and people 
would be perfectly happy.


On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:

  lmao 
  it just got downright stupid
  
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180124005145/en/BURGER-KING%C2%AE-Brand-Takes-Net-Neutrality-%E2%80%9CWHOPPER%C2%AE

  how about that TSA fast lane thing, hows that work? Ipass for toll roads? 
Hell, even 8 items or less express lanes at the supermarkets

  On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Layne Sisk  wrote:

Exactly, has anyone seen any changes since NN was overturned?  Nope, and 
they won’t.  The free market will control it.  



Layne Sisk

ServerPlus

801.426.8283, ext 102









   



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:11 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net Neutrality - 
The New York Times



I think there is NN irrespective of whatever laws they pass.  Market forces 
will cause it to happen.  



From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 9:26 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net Neutrality - 
The New York Times



Chuck said the NN thing is over 

How would this be enforced on the cellular side. Sprints offering cap free 
netflix, isnt that a violation of NN?

If state funding has gone into any "coops" like it has here, how does that 
work if the "coop" no longer chooses to abide by NN. Can montana retroactively 
alter the contract?



On Jan 22, 2018 10:00 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

  
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/technology/montana-net-neutrality.html?referer=https://news.google.com/
 

  Jaime Solorza

Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net Neutrality - The New York Times

[Mathew Howard]

Well, I don't know... paying extra to get to the front of the line at
Burger king doesn't sound like such a bad idea to me... they just have to
market it properly, and call it a discount for going to the back of the
line, and people would be perfectly happy.

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:19 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> lmao
> it just got downright stupid
> https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180124005145/en/
> BURGER-KING%C2%AE-Brand-Takes-Net-Neutrality-%E2%80%9CWHOPPER%C2%AE
> how about that TSA fast lane thing, hows that work? Ipass for toll roads?
> Hell, even 8 items or less express lanes at the supermarkets
>
> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Layne Sisk  wrote:
>
>> Exactly, has anyone seen any changes since NN was overturned?  Nope, and
>> they won’t.  The free market will control it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Layne Sisk
>>
>> ServerPlus
>>
>> 801.426.8283, ext 102
>>
>> [image: New logo xl] 
>>
>> [image: http://i.imgur.com/VOz763A.png]
>>
>> [image: http://i.imgur.com/xvQYYWa.png]
>> 
>>
>> [image: http://i.imgur.com/ELG0AB1.png]
>> 
>>
>> [image: Utah 100]   [image: fast50-01][image: Inc 5000]
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:11 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net
>> Neutrality - The New York Times
>>
>>
>>
>> I think there is NN irrespective of whatever laws they pass.  Market
>> forces will cause it to happen.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 9:26 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net
>> Neutrality - The New York Times
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck said the NN thing is over
>>
>> How would this be enforced on the cellular side. Sprints offering cap
>> free netflix, isnt that a violation of NN?
>>
>> If state funding has gone into any "coops" like it has here, how does
>> that work if the "coop" no longer chooses to abide by NN. Can montana
>> retroactively alter the contract?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2018 10:00 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/technology/montana-net
>> -neutrality.html?referer=https://news.google.com/
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net Neutrality - The New York Times

[Jaime Solorza]

http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/24/news/companies/burger-king-net-neutrality-ad/index.html

Jaime Solorza

On Jan 24, 2018 1:20 PM, "Steve Jones"  wrote:

> lmao
> it just got downright stupid
> https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180124005145/en/
> BURGER-KING%C2%AE-Brand-Takes-Net-Neutrality-%E2%80%9CWHOPPER%C2%AE
> how about that TSA fast lane thing, hows that work? Ipass for toll roads?
> Hell, even 8 items or less express lanes at the supermarkets
>
> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Layne Sisk  wrote:
>
>> Exactly, has anyone seen any changes since NN was overturned?  Nope, and
>> they won’t.  The free market will control it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Layne Sisk
>>
>> ServerPlus
>>
>> 801.426.8283, ext 102
>>
>> [image: New logo xl] 
>>
>> [image: http://i.imgur.com/VOz763A.png]
>>
>> [image: http://i.imgur.com/xvQYYWa.png]
>> 
>>
>> [image: http://i.imgur.com/ELG0AB1.png]
>> 
>>
>> [image: Utah 100]   [image: fast50-01][image: Inc 5000]
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:11 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net
>> Neutrality - The New York Times
>>
>>
>>
>> I think there is NN irrespective of whatever laws they pass.  Market
>> forces will cause it to happen.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 9:26 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net
>> Neutrality - The New York Times
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck said the NN thing is over
>>
>> How would this be enforced on the cellular side. Sprints offering cap
>> free netflix, isnt that a violation of NN?
>>
>> If state funding has gone into any "coops" like it has here, how does
>> that work if the "coop" no longer chooses to abide by NN. Can montana
>> retroactively alter the contract?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2018 10:00 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/technology/montana-net
>> -neutrality.html?referer=https://news.google.com/
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net Neutrality - The New York Times

[Steve Jones]

lmao
it just got downright stupid
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180124005145/en/BURGER-KING%C2%AE-Brand-Takes-Net-Neutrality-%E2%80%9CWHOPPER%C2%AE
how about that TSA fast lane thing, hows that work? Ipass for toll roads?
Hell, even 8 items or less express lanes at the supermarkets

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Layne Sisk  wrote:

> Exactly, has anyone seen any changes since NN was overturned?  Nope, and
> they won’t.  The free market will control it.
>
>
>
> Layne Sisk
>
> ServerPlus
>
> 801.426.8283, ext 102
>
> [image: New logo xl] 
>
> [image: http://i.imgur.com/VOz763A.png]
>
> [image: http://i.imgur.com/xvQYYWa.png]
> 
>
> [image: http://i.imgur.com/ELG0AB1.png]
> 
>
> [image: Utah 100]   [image: fast50-01][image: Inc 5000]
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:11 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net
> Neutrality - The New York Times
>
>
>
> I think there is NN irrespective of whatever laws they pass.  Market
> forces will cause it to happen.
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 22, 2018 9:26 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Montana Governor Signs Order to Force Net
> Neutrality - The New York Times
>
>
>
> Chuck said the NN thing is over
>
> How would this be enforced on the cellular side. Sprints offering cap free
> netflix, isnt that a violation of NN?
>
> If state funding has gone into any "coops" like it has here, how does that
> work if the "coop" no longer chooses to abide by NN. Can montana
> retroactively alter the contract?
>
>
>
> On Jan 22, 2018 10:00 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/technology/montana-
> net-neutrality.html?referer=https://news.google.com/
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] First Heat Map captures

[Josh Reynolds]

Power waaay too high.

On Jan 24, 2018 1:31 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Spent three hours...that's my son under tripod...used three APs
> Ruckus, Ubiquiti in 2.4 and 5Ghz set to 20dBm...
>
> Jaime Solorza
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Keto diet

[Jay Weekley]

If Tide would dye them green and call them broccoli pods they would 
solve the problem of children eating them.


Steve Jones wrote:
alot of bakeries are making tide pod donuts now. we are truly living 
in the greatest timeline


On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 9:54 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
> wrote:


I don't know, but I can tell you if they do to your insides what
they do to the outside, then I'm guessing that you could probably
write down a negative number

We for a while were throwing a few in a ziploc bag for use while
traveling for a mid-trip laundry day.  Went to the laundromat, did
laundry, put the remaining ones (in the ziploc bag) in my pocket
until we were done.  Somehow I punctured one and the bag and a
fairly small amount leaked out of the bag and into my pocket.  It
was a small enough amount that I didn't notice it until later when
my leg started to be severely irritated from having the extremely
concentrated detergent directly in contact with my skin. 
 Fortunately the irritation went away quickly but I sure wouldn't

want to try the internal equivalent...

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Chuck McCown > wrote:

Anyone know how many grams of carbohydrates there are in a
Tide pod?




-- 
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT
59602


forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.packetflux.com 

 




 
	Virus-free. www.avg.com 
 



<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Keto diet

[Steve Jones]

alot of bakeries are making tide pod donuts now. we are truly living in the
greatest timeline

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 9:54 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> I don't know, but I can tell you if they do to your insides what they do
> to the outside, then I'm guessing that you could probably write down a
> negative number
>
> We for a while were throwing a few in a ziploc bag for use while traveling
> for a mid-trip laundry day.   Went to the laundromat, did laundry, put the
> remaining ones (in the ziploc bag) in my pocket until we were done.
> Somehow I punctured one and the bag and a fairly small amount leaked out of
> the bag and into my pocket.   It was a small enough amount that I didn't
> notice it until later when my leg started to be severely irritated from
> having the extremely concentrated detergent directly in contact with my
> skin.   Fortunately the irritation went away quickly but I sure wouldn't
> want to try the internal equivalent...
>
> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Anyone know how many grams of carbohydrates there are in a Tide pod?
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> 
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[Rory Conaway]

Yea, that.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 6:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

I took him to mean that there was no explanation other than the change from one 
antenna to another.
-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Faisal Imtiaz" 
>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 1/24/2018 8:15:10 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

.." we have seen improvements in reflectors that can’t be explained by anything 
else in both high and noise environments."

The explanation is very simple... just look at the physical position of how the 
radio is mounted..
The back side of the radio is pointing to the ground, and the reflector is only 
focusing the energy downwards..
Thus very little is picked up from the back side of the radio and the back side 
of the reflector.. Additionally there are pretty much no side lobes..

It's physics and geometry :)

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: 
supp...@snappytelecom.net


From: "Rory Conaway" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:00:49 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30
Thanks.  I’ll have to do more testing at specific frequencies to be more 
accurate but so far we have seen improvements in reflectors that can’t be 
explained by anything else in both high and noise environments.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:14 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

Depends on the design.
If the gains are the same, then go to F/B ratio to decide.
If approx equivalent then check the look of side lobes.

Nothing magic about parabolas.  They are just highly characterized and easy to 
do.
A good patch array can be just as good for some applications.

From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 10:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

So Chuck, what’s your opinion?  Parabolic or reflector that the manufacturers 
spec out at approximately the same gain?

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 8:16 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

Gain of a parabolic reflector:
=10*LOG((0.55*((3.1415*Dia/Lamda)*(3.1415*Dia/Lamda))),10)

.55 is the efficiency factor.  Most of them range between .55 and .60
Diameter is in inches.  Lamda is in inches.

From: Rory Conaway
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

If you are talking about the 2’ dishes, their gain in 5GHz is the same as the 
KP reflector.  We may test that but honestly, between the price difference 
which is more than $100, the weight, and the complexity, it would have to be 
significantly better and I doubt it is.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 6:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

They still work down there, just lose a couple dB. Their better rejection makes 
up for it.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
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Midwest Internet Exchange
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The Brothers WISP
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From: "Rory Conaway" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:57:40 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish 

Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[Adam Moffett]

I took him to mean that there was no explanation other than the change 
from one antenna to another.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Faisal Imtiaz" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 1/24/2018 8:15:10 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

.." we have seen improvements in reflectors that can’t be explained by 
anything else in both high and noise environments."


The explanation is very simple... just look at the physical position of 
how the radio is mounted..
The back side of the radio is pointing to the ground, and the reflector 
is only focusing the energy downwards..
Thus very little is picked up from the back side of the radio and the 
back side of the reflector.. Additionally there are pretty much no side 
lobes..


It's physics and geometry :)

Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net



From: "Rory Conaway" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:00:49 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30
Thanks.  I’ll have to do more testing at specific frequencies to be 
more accurate but so far we have seen improvements in reflectors that 
can’t be explained by anything else in both high and noise 
environments.




Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:14 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30



Depends on the design.

If the gains are the same, then go to F/B ratio to decide.

If approx equivalent then check the look of side lobes.



Nothing magic about parabolas.  They are just highly characterized and 
easy to do.


A good patch array can be just as good for some applications.



From: Rory Conaway

Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 10:45 PM

To:af@afmug.com

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30



So Chuck, what’s your opinion?  Parabolic or reflector that the 
manufacturers spec out at approximately the same gain?




Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 8:16 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30



Gain of a parabolic reflector:

=10*LOG((0.55*((3.1415*Dia/Lamda)*(3.1415*Dia/Lamda))),10)



.55 is the efficiency factor.  Most of them range between .55 and .60

Diameter is in inches.  Lamda is in inches.



From: Rory Conaway

Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:08 AM

To:af@afmug.com

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30



If you are talking about the 2’ dishes, their gain in 5GHz is the same 
as the KP reflector.  We may test that but honestly, between the price 
difference which is more than $100, the weight, and the complexity, it 
would have to be significantly better and I doubt it is.




Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 6:58 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30



They still work down there, just lose a couple dB. Their better 
rejection makes up for it.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 


Midwest Internet Exchange 
 
 


The Brothers WISP 






From: "Rory Conaway" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:57:40 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

Most Jirous antennas aren’t good for under 5.4GHz though.  We started 
using them after being told more than 2 years ago they would have 
updated nose cones shortly.  I’m still waiting.




Rory



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 6:30 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30



Jirous makes antennas with good patterns.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 
 


Midwest Internet Exchange 
 

Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

[Faisal Imtiaz]

.." we have seen improvements in reflectors that can’t be explained by anything 
else in both high and noise environments. " 

The explanation is very simple... just look at the physical position of how the 
radio is mounted.. 
The back side of the radio is pointing to the ground, and the reflector is only 
focusing the energy downwards.. 
Thus very little is picked up from the back side of the radio and the back side 
of the reflector.. Additionally there are pretty much no side lobes.. 

It's physics and geometry :) 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Rory Conaway" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:00:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> Thanks. I’ll have to do more testing at specific frequencies to be more 
> accurate
> but so far we have seen improvements in reflectors that can’t be explained by
> anything else in both high and noise environments.

> Rory

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 9:14 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> Depends on the design.

> If the gains are the same, then go to F/B ratio to decide.

> If approx equivalent then check the look of side lobes.

> Nothing magic about parabolas. They are just highly characterized and easy to
> do.

> A good patch array can be just as good for some applications.

> From: Rory Conaway

> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 10:45 PM

> To: af@afmug.com

> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> So Chuck, what’s your opinion? Parabolic or reflector that the manufacturers
> spec out at approximately the same gain?

> Rory

> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 8:16 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> Gain of a parabolic reflector:

> =10*LOG((0.55*((3.1415*Dia/Lamda)*(3.1415*Dia/Lamda))),10)

> .55 is the efficiency factor. Most of them range between .55 and .60

> Diameter is in inches. Lamda is in inches.

> From: Rory Conaway

> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:08 AM

> To: af@afmug.com

> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> If you are talking about the 2’ dishes, their gain in 5GHz is the same as the 
> KP
> reflector. We may test that but honestly, between the price difference which 
> is
> more than $100, the weight, and the complexity, it would have to be
> significantly better and I doubt it is.

> Rory

> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 6:58 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> They still work down there, just lose a couple dB. Their better rejection 
> makes
> up for it.

> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions

> Midwest Internet Exchange

> The Brothers WISP

> From: "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net >
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 7:57:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> Most Jirous antennas aren’t good for under 5.4GHz though. We started using 
> them
> after being told more than 2 years ago they would have updated nose cones
> shortly. I’m still waiting.

> Rory

> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 6:30 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> Jirous makes antennas with good patterns.

> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions

> Midwest Internet Exchange

> The Brothers WISP

> From: "David Coudron" < david.coud...@advantenon.com >
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:04:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> We love the KP Performance antennas for the CPEs, but haven’t used them yet 
> for
> backhaul. Have you been using them for that as well? We were worried the wider
> beamwidth would catch too much other noise. Or maybe that hasn’t been an 
> issue?

> Thanks,

> David Coudron

> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:56 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> Right now the best antenna we have tested at 30dBi has been the KP Performance
> antennas. We will be testing the RF Elements antennas next.

> Rory

> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of David Coudron
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 6:49 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Arc Wireless 30 dBi vs RocketDish RD-5G30

> We have traditionally been using the Arc Wireless 30 dBi 5 GHz parabolic dish
> for our shorter backhaul links when