Re: [AFMUG] APC load in watts
I wonder if 10 minutes of runtime remaining with a 10% load means the thing can run a full load for 1 minute? From: Adam Moffett via Af Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 8:31 AM To: Animal Farm Subject: [AFMUG] APC load in watts This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the management page on one of the APC's here. I had been thinking they were somebody else's problem. Why do I see Load in Watts with a value of 10.4%? My first thought was maybe the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low. Second thought was maybe it's 10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high. No matter what it makes no sense. Anybody know what I'm supposed to learn by reading this? (other than the programmer failed English)
Re: [AFMUG] APC load in watts
On 10/28/14, 7:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote: This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the management page on one of the APC's here. I had been thinking they were somebody else's problem. Why do I see Load in Watts with a value of 10.4%? My first thought was maybe the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low. Second thought was maybe it's 10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high. No matter what it makes no sense. Anybody know what I'm supposed to learn by reading this? (other than the programmer failed English) That's a percentage of full load watts, adjusted for power factor, which on APC should be .8 of the VA rating. The VA is a bigger number and thus used for marketing. Nicer UPS systems will have variable PF and should display that value, too. Real power vs. apparent power in non-linear loads, so pretty much all computer equipment. ~Seth
Re: [AFMUG] APC load in watts
Is that one winter in a non temperature controlled environment? I would assume in an office environment they would be pretty stable. From: That One Guy via Af Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:21 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] APC load in watts I only use that number to know when we exceed 50% so we know we need to go to the next size UPS. I had a chart APC sent me once, basically once you hit 50% your run time cliffs. The cool thing about APC and their batteries is that none of the numbers matter after one winter, they do whatever they want even with recalibration On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Seth Mattinen via Af af@afmug.com wrote: On 10/28/14, 7:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote: This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the management page on one of the APC's here. I had been thinking they were somebody else's problem. Why do I see Load in Watts with a value of 10.4%? My first thought was maybe the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low. Second thought was maybe it's 10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high. No matter what it makes no sense. Anybody know what I'm supposed to learn by reading this? (other than the programmer failed English) That's a percentage of full load watts, adjusted for power factor, which on APC should be .8 of the VA rating. The VA is a bigger number and thus used for marketing. Nicer UPS systems will have variable PF and should display that value, too. Real power vs. apparent power in non-linear loads, so pretty much all computer equipment. ~Seth -- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
Re: [AFMUG] APC load in watts
For what it's worth since most people are not used to power factor (PF) Power is measured as volts * amps * PF = Watts VA ratings are volts * amps For DC the power factor is effectively 1 and can be ignored (we are talking supply power here... you RF guys don't need to go off on a tangent here...). The current draw of a load does not always track the voltage supplied. If the load is purely resistive (no inductors, no capacitors) then rising voltage and current track linearly. Most AC loads are not purely resistive and the current may lag or lead the voltage - meaning the current rise lags behind what would be expected for the voltage applied. The power factor (PF) is the ratio between the (expected) current and voltage and it's expressed as a number between -1 and 1. Old switching power supplies have a PF around .8 A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 1 draws: Voltage: 120V, Current (500/120) = 4.16A A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 0.8 draws: Voltage: 120V, Current (500/120/.8) = 5.21A The power supply with the PF of 0.8 requires considerably more current from the UPS than the power supply with a PF of 1 ~ 25% more. UPS manufacturers rate power supplies based on VA rather than Watts since (take your pick here...) they don't have control over the power factor of the equipment you are adding, or the VA number is bigger and looks better on the box. You can get more runtime out of your UPS if you pay attention to the power factor of the computers you attach to them. Better power supplies have better power factors. They cost a little bit more but can save you money on your UPS. Mark On 10/28/14, 10:35 AM, Robbie Wright via Af wrote: Under, about click on UPS. You'll see apparent power rating in VA and real power rating in watts. Under statusups, you should also see output voltage and amps so you can figure out watts if you want. It also logs your usage in kWH as well. Robbie Wright Siuslaw Broadband http://siuslawbroadband.com 541-902-5101 -- Mark Radabaugh Amplex m...@amplex.net 419.837.5015 x 1021
Re: [AFMUG] APC load in watts
I am still pissed at getting marked wrong on an exam in college. Freshman EE class. The question was: What is Power Factor. My answer: Cosine of the Phase Angle I was right. They were wrong. I was robbed of some points. Somebody has to pay someday... From: Mark Radabaugh via Af Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:32 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] APC load in watts For what it's worth since most people are not used to power factor (PF) Power is measured as volts * amps * PF = Watts VA ratings are volts * amps For DC the power factor is effectively 1 and can be ignored (we are talking supply power here... you RF guys don't need to go off on a tangent here...). The current draw of a load does not always track the voltage supplied. If the load is purely resistive (no inductors, no capacitors) then rising voltage and current track linearly. Most AC loads are not purely resistive and the current may lag or lead the voltage - meaning the current rise lags behind what would be expected for the voltage applied. The power factor (PF) is the ratio between the (expected) current and voltage and it's expressed as a number between -1 and 1.Old switching power supplies have a PF around .8 A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 1 draws: Voltage: 120V, Current (500/120) = 4.16A A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 0.8 draws: Voltage: 120V, Current (500/120/.8) = 5.21A The power supply with the PF of 0.8 requires considerably more current from the UPS than the power supply with a PF of 1 ~ 25% more. UPS manufacturers rate power supplies based on VA rather than Watts since (take your pick here...) they don't have control over the power factor of the equipment you are adding, or the VA number is bigger and looks better on the box. You can get more runtime out of your UPS if you pay attention to the power factor of the computers you attach to them. Better power supplies have better power factors. They cost a little bit more but can save you money on your UPS. Mark On 10/28/14, 10:35 AM, Robbie Wright via Af wrote: Under, about click on UPS. You'll see apparent power rating in VA and real power rating in watts. Under statusups, you should also see output voltage and amps so you can figure out watts if you want. It also logs your usage in kWH as well. Robbie Wright Siuslaw Broadband 541-902-5101 -- Mark Radabaugh Amplex m...@amplex.net 419.837.5015 x 1021
Re: [AFMUG] APC load in watts
thats how campus shootings start, somebody needs to get the FBI to chucks house On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Chuck McCown via Af af@afmug.com wrote: I am still pissed at getting marked wrong on an exam in college. Freshman EE class. The question was: What is Power Factor. My answer: Cosine of the Phase Angle I was right. They were wrong. I was robbed of some points. Somebody has to pay someday... *From:* Mark Radabaugh via Af af@afmug.com *Sent:* Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:32 AM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] APC load in watts For what it's worth since most people are not used to power factor (PF) Power is measured as volts * amps * PF = Watts VA ratings are volts * amps For DC the power factor is effectively 1 and can be ignored (we are talking supply power here... you RF guys don't need to go off on a tangent here...). The current draw of a load does not always track the voltage supplied. If the load is purely resistive (no inductors, no capacitors) then rising voltage and current track linearly. Most AC loads are not purely resistive and the current may lag or lead the voltage - meaning the current rise lags behind what would be expected for the voltage applied. The power factor (PF) is the ratio between the (expected) current and voltage and it's expressed as a number between -1 and 1.Old switching power supplies have a PF around .8 A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 1 draws: Voltage: 120V, Current (500/120) = 4.16A A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 0.8 draws: Voltage: 120V, Current (500/120/.8) = 5.21A The power supply with the PF of 0.8 requires considerably more current from the UPS than the power supply with a PF of 1 ~ 25% more. UPS manufacturers rate power supplies based on VA rather than Watts since (take your pick here...) they don't have control over the power factor of the equipment you are adding, or the VA number is bigger and looks better on the box. You can get more runtime out of your UPS if you pay attention to the power factor of the computers you attach to them. Better power supplies have better power factors. They cost a little bit more but can save you money on your UPS. Mark On 10/28/14, 10:35 AM, Robbie Wright via Af wrote: Under, about click on UPS. You'll see apparent power rating in VA and real power rating in watts. Under statusups, you should also see output voltage and amps so you can figure out watts if you want. It also logs your usage in kWH as well. Robbie Wright Siuslaw Broadband http://siuslawbroadband.com 541-902-5101 -- Mark Radabaugh Amplex m...@amplex.net 419.837.5015 x 1021 -- All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925
Re: [AFMUG] APC load in watts
Be happy you don't go to school now. The whole online test and homework thing is completely asinine in most implementations. The kids spend more time trying to convince the computer that A+B is correct when the computer insists it's only correct as B+A. It's really nice when it's a test and 20% of the correct answers are marked wrong. Most of the software is so poorly done it's ridiculous. I have seen the kids spend 50% of their time manipulating correct answers to get the computer to accept them. Mark On 10/28/14, 11:35 AM, Chuck McCown via Af wrote: I am still pissed at getting marked wrong on an exam in college. Freshman EE class. The question was: What is Power Factor. My answer: Cosine of the Phase Angle I was right. They were wrong. I was robbed of some points. Somebody has to pay someday... *From:* Mark Radabaugh via Af mailto:af@afmug.com *Sent:* Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:32 AM *To:* af@afmug.com mailto:af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] APC load in watts For what it's worth since most people are not used to power factor (PF) Power is measured as volts * amps * PF = Watts VA ratings are volts * amps For DC the power factor is effectively 1 and can be ignored (we are talking supply power here... you RF guys don't need to go off on a tangent here...). The current draw of a load does not always track the voltage supplied. If the load is purely resistive (no inductors, no capacitors) then rising voltage and current track linearly. Most AC loads are not purely resistive and the current may lag or lead the voltage - meaning the current rise lags behind what would be expected for the voltage applied. The power factor (PF) is the ratio between the (expected) current and voltage and it's expressed as a number between -1 and 1.Old switching power supplies have a PF around .8 A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 1 draws: Voltage: 120V, Current (500/120) = 4.16A A 500W, 120V power supply with a PF of 0.8 draws: Voltage: 120V, Current (500/120/.8) = 5.21A The power supply with the PF of 0.8 requires considerably more current from the UPS than the power supply with a PF of 1 ~ 25% more. UPS manufacturers rate power supplies based on VA rather than Watts since (take your pick here...) they don't have control over the power factor of the equipment you are adding, or the VA number is bigger and looks better on the box. You can get more runtime out of your UPS if you pay attention to the power factor of the computers you attach to them. Better power supplies have better power factors. They cost a little bit more but can save you money on your UPS. Mark On 10/28/14, 10:35 AM, Robbie Wright via Af wrote: Under, about click on UPS. You'll see apparent power rating in VA and real power rating in watts. Under statusups, you should also see output voltage and amps so you can figure out watts if you want. It also logs your usage in kWH as well. Robbie Wright Siuslaw Broadband http://siuslawbroadband.com 541-902-5101 -- Mark Radabaugh Amplex m...@amplex.net 419.837.5015 x 1021 -- Mark Radabaugh Amplex m...@amplex.net 419.837.5015 x 1021
Re: [AFMUG] APC load in watts
http://exchange.nagios.org/directory/Plugins/Hardware/UPS/APC/check_apc-2Epl/details In order to show output load in watts, the maximum power load wattage must be included in the check. This can be found on your UPS management page under the UPS tab and then About using the real power ratting shown. Crazy detail here: http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/SADE-5TNQYF/SADE-5TNQYF_R1_EN.pdf ryan On 10/28/14 7:31 AM, Adam Moffett via Af wrote: This is the first time I've ever taken a very close look at the management page on one of the APC's here. I had been thinking they were somebody else's problem. Why do I see Load in Watts with a value of 10.4%? My first thought was maybe the % was a typo, but 10.4 watts sounds too low. Second thought was maybe it's 10.4% of 1500VAbut that sounds too high. No matter what it makes no sense. Anybody know what I'm supposed to learn by reading this? (other than the programmer failed English) -- D. Ryan Spott | Iron Goat Networks, llc broadband | telco | colo | community PO Box 1232 / 603 W. Stevens Sultan, WA 98284 360-799-0552 | gtalk: rsp...@irongoat.net
