[AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

[Gino Villarini]

A local provider wired a whole business MDU.  We are trying to light up a
customer on the premises.  They are charging ridiculous fees to access the
cabling. Is this legal?

Re: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

[Chuck McCown]

If the owner of the property agrees it is probably legal.
If the owner of the cabling is not a regulated public utility it is probably 
legal.  

If it has been wired by a public utility then you should have some rights to 
use the wiring.  Otherwise all bets are off.  

Be best to negotiate with the owner of the MDU and run your own wiring if 
possible.  

From: Gino Villarini 
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 1:12 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

A local provider wired a whole business MDU.  We are trying to light up a 
customer on the premises.  They are charging ridiculous fees to access the 
cabling. Is this legal? 

Re: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

[George Skorup]

"Wired" with what?

On 1/25/2016 2:12 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:
A local provider wired a whole business MDU.  We are trying to light 
up a customer on the premises.  They are charging ridiculous fees to 
access the cabling. Is this legal?

Re: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

[Gino Villarini]

Actually, we don't want to use the cabling.  We want to use our own... they
are forcing us to use it...

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 4:15 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> If the owner of the property agrees it is probably legal.
> If the owner of the cabling is not a regulated public utility it is
> probably legal.
>
> If it has been wired by a public utility then you should have some rights
> to use the wiring.  Otherwise all bets are off.
>
> Be best to negotiate with the owner of the MDU and run your own wiring if
> possible.
>
> *From:* Gino Villarini <ginovi...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 25, 2016 1:12 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm <af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access
> cabling?
>
> A local provider wired a whole business MDU.  We are trying to light up a
> customer on the premises.  They are charging ridiculous fees to access the
> cabling. Is this legal?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

[Sean Heskett]

Phone and coax are owned by the property no matter who installed it.

Fiber and cat5/6 Ethernet is still kind of a grey area that hasn't been
determined.  But would probably follow the same rules.

On Monday, January 25, 2016, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> A local provider wired a whole business MDU.  We are trying to light up a
> customer on the premises.  They are charging ridiculous fees to access the
> cabling. Is this legal?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

[Gino Villarini]

owners sent us to them (other provider)

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Why are you listening to them?  Or talking to them?  Why can't you talk to
> the building owner.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> its cat5 and fiber.  We want to bypass it... but cable owner says we
>> "have" to use it
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> Phone and coax are owned by the property no matter who installed it.
>>>
>>> Fiber and cat5/6 Ethernet is still kind of a grey area that hasn't been
>>> determined.  But would probably follow the same rules.
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 25, 2016, Gino Villarini  wrote:
>>>
 A local provider wired a whole business MDU.  We are trying to light up
 a customer on the premises.  They are charging ridiculous fees to access
 the cabling. Is this legal?

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

[Josh Luthman]

Why are you listening to them?  Or talking to them?  Why can't you talk to
the building owner.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> its cat5 and fiber.  We want to bypass it... but cable owner says we
> "have" to use it
>
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> Phone and coax are owned by the property no matter who installed it.
>>
>> Fiber and cat5/6 Ethernet is still kind of a grey area that hasn't been
>> determined.  But would probably follow the same rules.
>>
>> On Monday, January 25, 2016, Gino Villarini  wrote:
>>
>>> A local provider wired a whole business MDU.  We are trying to light up
>>> a customer on the premises.  They are charging ridiculous fees to access
>>> the cabling. Is this legal?
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

[Sterling Jacobson]

I would just talk to the building owner.

They usually have final say on what goes on in their building, including wiring.

If they have some special agreement or something with another 
provider/contractor, then it’s up to them to disclose that.

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 1:13 PM
To: Animal Farm <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

A local provider wired a whole business MDU.  We are trying to light up a 
customer on the premises.  They are charging ridiculous fees to access the 
cabling. Is this legal?

Re: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

[Ken Hohhof]

I found several law firms with articles like this excerpt:

“Notwithstanding the FCC’s Exclusivity Order, MDU owners and service providers 
are still able to negotiate what are in effect de facto exclusive ROE 
agreements by several means. Common methods of conferring monopoly status on a 
selected provider include granting exclusive on-site marketing rights and/or 
exclusive use of existing cable inside wiring owned by the property owner (or 
HOA).
Because access to private property (including access to common areas for 
on-site marketing purposes and access to wiring) is a valuable right, service 
providers often pay financial compensation to the property owner in exchange 
for access. Provider to owner compensation is typically paid in the form of an 
upfront “door fee,” based on the number of residential units at the property, 
and/or monthly or quarterly percentages of the provider’s recurring 
subscription revenue received from property residents.”

Sounds like building owner is likely getting money from the other guys.


From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 3:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

I would just talk to the building owner.

 

They usually have final say on what goes on in their building, including wiring.

 

If they have some special agreement or something with another 
provider/contractor, then it’s up to them to disclose that.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 1:13 PM
To: Animal Farm <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

 

A local provider wired a whole business MDU.  We are trying to light up a 
customer on the premises.  They are charging ridiculous fees to access the 
cabling. Is this legal? 

Re: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

[Gino Villarini]

its cat5 and fiber.  We want to bypass it... but cable owner says we "have"
to use it

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 4:16 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Phone and coax are owned by the property no matter who installed it.
>
> Fiber and cat5/6 Ethernet is still kind of a grey area that hasn't been
> determined.  But would probably follow the same rules.
>
> On Monday, January 25, 2016, Gino Villarini  wrote:
>
>> A local provider wired a whole business MDU.  We are trying to light up a
>> customer on the premises.  They are charging ridiculous fees to access the
>> cabling. Is this legal?
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

[David]

Last statement is best to avoid any path to end user issues.


On 01/25/2016 02:15 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

If the owner of the property agrees it is probably legal.
If the owner of the cabling is not a regulated public utility it is 
probably legal.
If it has been wired by a public utility then you should have some 
rights to use the wiring.  Otherwise all bets are off.
Be best to negotiate with the owner of the MDU and run your own wiring 
if possible.

*From:* Gino Villarini <mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, January 25, 2016 1:12 PM
*To:* Animal Farm <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access 
cabling?
A local provider wired a whole business MDU. We are trying to light up 
a customer on the premises. They are charging ridiculous fees to 
access the cabling. Is this legal?

Re: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access cabling?

[Jeremy]

I recently had a commercial entity (the mall) tell me that they were
planning to provide all Internet services, and would likely kick the other
providers out at that time.  Meanwhile, they mentioned that they would
"want a piece of the pie" if we started getting too many customers within
their establishment before they got their 'fiber project' going.  Just
wondering out loudif we are now a public utilitywould it be legal
for a owner of a commercial property (like the mall) to require a 'cut' of
the profits from the sale of power and water?  Doesn't this put us in the
same boat?
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On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> I found several law firms with articles like this excerpt:
>
> “Notwithstanding the FCC’s Exclusivity Order, MDU owners and service
> providers are still able to negotiate what are in effect *de facto*
> exclusive ROE agreements by several means. Common methods of conferring
> monopoly status on a selected provider include granting exclusive on-site
> marketing rights and/or exclusive use of existing cable inside wiring owned
> by the property owner (or HOA).
>
> Because access to private property (including access to common areas for
> on-site marketing purposes and access to wiring) is a valuable right,
> service providers often pay financial compensation to the property owner in
> exchange for access. Provider to owner compensation is typically paid in
> the form of an upfront “door fee,” based on the number of residential units
> at the property, and/or monthly or quarterly percentages of the provider’s
> recurring subscription revenue received from property residents.”
> Sounds like building owner is likely getting money from the other guys.
>
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 25, 2016 3:00 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access
> cabling?
>
>
> I would just talk to the building owner.
>
>
>
> They usually have final say on what goes on in their building, including
> wiring.
>
>
>
> If they have some special agreement or something with another
> provider/contractor, then it’s up to them to disclose that.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
> *Sent:* Monday, January 25, 2016 1:13 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm <af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Can a provider have exclusive rights to MDU access
> cabling?
>
>
>
> A local provider wired a whole business MDU.  We are trying to light up a
> customer on the premises.  They are charging ridiculous fees to access the
> cabling. Is this legal?
>