Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Ken Hohhof]

AR8227 doesn’t seem to be a discrete chip.  It’s part of an SOC with the CPU, 
for all we know it uses PCIe or some other method to talk to the CPU, none of 
those documents seem to say.  You could be right, but it’s hard to determine 
from the available documentation.


From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 7:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

http://i.mt.lv/routerboard/files/Block-RB2011UAS-2HnD.pdf

I can't find any details on the AR8227, but if it's a 10/100 switch, then I 
don't see it having a gigabit uplink.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 3:26:43 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

I don't see anything in that saying the bandwidth from the 10/100 Ethernet 
switch chip to the CPU is limited to 100M, maybe I missed something.

It does appear to be true the only connection between the 2 switch chips is 
bridging via the CPU.

If using it primarily as a switch not a router, a CRS might be better?


-Original Message- 
From: Joe Falaschi
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

That is what I took from this post: 
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=63372

We had tons of issues at a site.  Nothing made sense, CPU usage was in the 
teens, but we just saw terrible performance and packet loss at peak. 
Eventually we found out that we received more complaints on different APs 
and found the above post.  We were only using the tik as a switch at the top 
of the tower to terminate the fiber up the tower and connect the APs.  We 
replaced with a Netonix and all of our issues at this site went away.  I had 
no idea.  A warning label would have saved us months of issues trying to 
track it down.

Joe


On Mar 11, 2016, at 2:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

> Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on 
> that.
>
> On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:
>> The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are 
>> plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5. 
>> If the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues 
>> there too.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Mike Hammett]

http://i.mt.lv/routerboard/files/Block-RB2011UAS-2HnD.pdf 

I can't find any details on the AR8227, but if it's a 10/100 switch, then I 
don't see it having a gigabit uplink. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 3:26:43 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP 

I don't see anything in that saying the bandwidth from the 10/100 Ethernet 
switch chip to the CPU is limited to 100M, maybe I missed something. 

It does appear to be true the only connection between the 2 switch chips is 
bridging via the CPU. 

If using it primarily as a switch not a router, a CRS might be better? 


-Original Message- 
From: Joe Falaschi 
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:51 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP 

That is what I took from this post: 
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=63372 

We had tons of issues at a site. Nothing made sense, CPU usage was in the 
teens, but we just saw terrible performance and packet loss at peak. 
Eventually we found out that we received more complaints on different APs 
and found the above post. We were only using the tik as a switch at the top 
of the tower to terminate the fiber up the tower and connect the APs. We 
replaced with a Netonix and all of our issues at this site went away. I had 
no idea. A warning label would have saved us months of issues trying to 
track it down. 

Joe 


On Mar 11, 2016, at 2:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 

> Well that's news to me! Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on 
> that. 
> 
> On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote: 
>> The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are 
>> plugged into. Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5. 
>> If the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues 
>> there too. 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Stefan Englhardt]

This was my guess with that kind of problems. We have seen this with Mikrotik 
NV2, too. The packet aggregation at the protocol causes problems with the 
smooth flow of ack packets. Together with change between different speeds on 
the backhaul there are tcp slow downs. Solution is to do all gig and flow 
control at the ethernet side of the backhaul links. Another solution would be 
to reduce buffering at the ap/cpe. E.g mikrotik nstreme has a configurable 
buffer size. Using 2,5ms instead of 5ms with ePMP should reduce buffering, too ?

 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Daniel Gerlach <danielgerl...@gmail.com> 
Datum: 12.03.2016  08:46  (GMT+01:00) 
An: af@afmug.com 
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP 

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Daniel Gerlach]

Cambium  answer of this Problem:
Say you have two routers, router 1 at 10/100 for port 1 and
10/100/1000 for port 2 and router 2 communicates with router 1 using
the 10/100/1000 and only has 10/100/1000 ports.  Router 2 receives a
burst of traffic and sends it to router 1 over 10/100/1000 port.
Router 1 gets the traffic, but cannot send it out as quickly over its
10/100 port.  Router 1 starts buffering the data.  But routers do not
have very big internal queues so some data gets dropped.
ePMP because it has frames, send data in bursts.  In the direction the
data is sent, it can accumulate lots of data each frame.  In the
direction of the TCP ACKs, it can accumlate lots of these every frame.
For the case of the data, this data can be lost at router 1 if it is
after the ePMP device.  For the case of the TCP ACKs, router 1 can
handle the TCP ACKs load, but when the device that initiated the TCP
session receives the TCP ACKs at once, it responds with new TCP data
all at once and this causes a burst.  If router 1 receives this burst
of data, then data gets dropped.
Whenever TCP data is dropped, this causes the TCP window to shrink
which slows down throughput.
Therefore, if you have the situation I described, you need to change
your routers so they all have the same port speed.

2016-03-11 23:08 GMT+01:00 Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>:
> Handful of orders these last couple weeks.  0 differences beyond the Ubnt
> out of stock stuff (yes that record is still broken).
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think they were doing end of fiscal year inventory the last couple days.
>>
>> From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 3:07 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>>
>> Speaking of Streakwave. Is everyone else having issues with the deliveries
>> getting stretched out beyond what seems normal with them?
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>> On 3/11/2016 1:01 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>>
>> i can't get a 3011 to try, streakwave doesn't have stock, but i
>> desparately need this, have a tower with high CPU usage on router and only a
>> 2011 fill fit in the enclosure
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Funny. We were just talking about this yesterday. The 2011 is great for
>>> small POPs, except for the split 10/100 - 1000 ports. The 3011 would be
>>> perfect except it can only be had in a 19" rack form factor.
>>>
>>> Has anyone tried to stick the circuit board from a 3011 into a 2011 case?
>>> DC plant of course.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>> On 3/11/2016 12:43 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My rackmount 2011's will probably get replaced with 3011's, but they
>>>> really need to bring out a smaller desktop 3011 as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:23 PM
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>>>>
>>>> Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on
>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are
>>>>> plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5. If
>>>>> the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues 
>>>>> there
>>>>> too.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Josh Luthman]

Handful of orders these last couple weeks.  0 differences beyond the Ubnt
out of stock stuff (yes that record is still broken).


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> I think they were doing end of fiscal year inventory the last couple days.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 11, 2016 3:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>
> Speaking of Streakwave. Is everyone else having issues with the deliveries
> getting stretched out beyond what seems normal with them?
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
> On 3/11/2016 1:01 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>
> i can't get a 3011 to try, streakwave doesn't have stock, but i
> desparately need this, have a tower with high CPU usage on router and only
> a 2011 fill fit in the enclosure
>
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Funny. We were just talking about this yesterday. The 2011 is great for
>> small POPs, except for the split 10/100 - 1000 ports. The 3011 would be
>> perfect except it can only be had in a 19" rack form factor.
>>
>> Has anyone tried to stick the circuit board from a 3011 into a 2011 case?
>> DC plant of course.
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>> On 3/11/2016 12:43 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>>> My rackmount 2011's will probably get replaced with 3011's, but they
>>> really need to bring out a smaller desktop 3011 as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:23 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>>>
>>> Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on
>>> that.
>>>
>>> On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:
>>>
>>>> The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are
>>>> plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5. If
>>>> the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues
>>>> there too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Ken Hohhof]

I think they were doing end of fiscal year inventory the last couple days.

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 3:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Speaking of Streakwave. Is everyone else having issues with the deliveries 
getting stretched out beyond what seems normal with them?


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 3/11/2016 1:01 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

  i can't get a 3011 to try, streakwave doesn't have stock, but i desparately 
need this, have a tower with high CPU usage on router and only a 2011 fill fit 
in the enclosure

  On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

Funny. We were just talking about this yesterday. The 2011 is great for 
small POPs, except for the split 10/100 - 1000 ports. The 3011 would be perfect 
except it can only be had in a 19" rack form factor.

Has anyone tried to stick the circuit board from a 3011 into a 2011 case? 
DC plant of course.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>


On 3/11/2016 12:43 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  My rackmount 2011's will probably get replaced with 3011's, but they 
really need to bring out a smaller desktop 3011 as well.


  -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
  Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:23 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

  Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on
  that.

  On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:

The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are 
plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5. If the 
aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues there too.

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[John Woodfield]

There is a smaller CCR but it runs around $400
 
 
 
John Woodfield, President
Delmarva WiFi Inc.
410-870-WiFi


-Original Message-
From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 4:01pm
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP



i can't get a 3011 to try, streakwave doesn't have stock, but i desparately 
need this, have a tower with high CPU usage on router and only a 2011 fill fit 
in the enclosure


On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Bill Prince <[ part15...@gmail.com ]( 
mailto:part15...@gmail.com )> wrote:
Funny. We were just talking about this yesterday. The 2011 is great for small 
POPs, except for the split 10/100 - 1000 ports. The 3011 would be perfect 
except it can only be had in a 19" rack form factor.

 Has anyone tried to stick the circuit board from a 3011 into a 2011 case? DC 
plant of course.

 bp
 <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>



On 3/11/2016 12:43 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
My rackmount 2011's will probably get replaced with 3011's, but they really 
need to bring out a smaller desktop 3011 as well.


 -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
 Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:23 PM
 To: [ af@afmug.com ]( mailto:af@afmug.com )
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

 Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on
 that.

 On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:
The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are plugged 
into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5. If the 
aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues there too.

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Adam Moffett]

CRS might not have existed whenever they bought their 2011, but yeah CRS 
is a much better switch than a 2011 is.



On 3/11/2016 4:26 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I don't see anything in that saying the bandwidth from the 10/100 
Ethernet switch chip to the CPU is limited to 100M, maybe I missed 
something.


It does appear to be true the only connection between the 2 switch 
chips is bridging via the CPU.


If using it primarily as a switch not a router, a CRS might be better?


-Original Message- From: Joe Falaschi
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

That is what I took from this post: 
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=63372


We had tons of issues at a site.  Nothing made sense, CPU usage was in 
the teens, but we just saw terrible performance and packet loss at 
peak. Eventually we found out that we received more complaints on 
different APs and found the above post.  We were only using the tik as 
a switch at the top of the tower to terminate the fiber up the tower 
and connect the APs.  We replaced with a Netonix and all of our issues 
at this site went away.  I had no idea.  A warning label would have 
saved us months of issues trying to track it down.


Joe


On Mar 11, 2016, at 2:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker 
on that.


On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:
The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things 
are plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to 
ports 1-5. If the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, 
you'll have issues there too.

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Ken Hohhof]

A couple weeks back someone pointed me to Roc-Noc, they are still showing 73 in 
stock.  Might be a little more expensive.

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 3:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

i can't get a 3011 to try, streakwave doesn't have stock, but i desparately 
need this, have a tower with high CPU usage on router and only a 2011 fill fit 
in the enclosure

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Funny. We were just talking about this yesterday. The 2011 is great for small 
POPs, except for the split 10/100 - 1000 ports. The 3011 would be perfect 
except it can only be had in a 19" rack form factor.

  Has anyone tried to stick the circuit board from a 3011 into a 2011 case? DC 
plant of course.

  bp
  <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>


  On 3/11/2016 12:43 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

My rackmount 2011's will probably get replaced with 3011's, but they really 
need to bring out a smaller desktop 3011 as well.


-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on
that.

On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:

  The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are 
plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5. If the 
aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues there too.

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Ken Hohhof]

I don't see anything in that saying the bandwidth from the 10/100 Ethernet 
switch chip to the CPU is limited to 100M, maybe I missed something.


It does appear to be true the only connection between the 2 switch chips is 
bridging via the CPU.


If using it primarily as a switch not a router, a CRS might be better?


-Original Message- 
From: Joe Falaschi

Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

That is what I took from this post: 
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=63372


We had tons of issues at a site.  Nothing made sense, CPU usage was in the 
teens, but we just saw terrible performance and packet loss at peak. 
Eventually we found out that we received more complaints on different APs 
and found the above post.  We were only using the tik as a switch at the top 
of the tower to terminate the fiber up the tower and connect the APs.  We 
replaced with a Netonix and all of our issues at this site went away.  I had 
no idea.  A warning label would have saved us months of issues trying to 
track it down.


Joe


On Mar 11, 2016, at 2:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on 
that.


On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:
The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are 
plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5. 
If the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues 
there too.

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Bill Prince]

Speaking of Streakwave. Is everyone else having issues with the 
deliveries getting stretched out beyond what seems normal with them?


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 3/11/2016 1:01 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
i can't get a 3011 to try, streakwave doesn't have stock, but i 
desparately need this, have a tower with high CPU usage on router and 
only a 2011 fill fit in the enclosure


On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com 
<mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Funny. We were just talking about this yesterday. The 2011 is
great for small POPs, except for the split 10/100 - 1000 ports.
The 3011 would be perfect except it can only be had in a 19" rack
form factor.

Has anyone tried to stick the circuit board from a 3011 into a
2011 case? DC plant of course.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 3/11/2016 12:43 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

My rackmount 2011's will probably get replaced with 3011's,
but they really need to bring out a smaller desktop 3011 as well.


-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning
sticker on
that.

On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:

The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what
port things are plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M
aggregate link to ports 1-5. If the aggregate of ports
6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues there too.

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Kurt Fankhauser]

i can't get a 3011 to try, streakwave doesn't have stock, but i desparately
need this, have a tower with high CPU usage on router and only a 2011 fill
fit in the enclosure

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Funny. We were just talking about this yesterday. The 2011 is great for
> small POPs, except for the split 10/100 - 1000 ports. The 3011 would be
> perfect except it can only be had in a 19" rack form factor.
>
> Has anyone tried to stick the circuit board from a 3011 into a 2011 case?
> DC plant of course.
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 3/11/2016 12:43 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
>> My rackmount 2011's will probably get replaced with 3011's, but they
>> really need to bring out a smaller desktop 3011 as well.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
>> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:23 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>>
>> Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on
>> that.
>>
>> On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:
>>
>>> The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are
>>> plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5. If
>>> the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues
>>> there too.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Bill Prince]

Funny. We were just talking about this yesterday. The 2011 is great for 
small POPs, except for the split 10/100 - 1000 ports. The 3011 would be 
perfect except it can only be had in a 19" rack form factor.


Has anyone tried to stick the circuit board from a 3011 into a 2011 
case? DC plant of course.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 3/11/2016 12:43 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
My rackmount 2011's will probably get replaced with 3011's, but they 
really need to bring out a smaller desktop 3011 as well.



-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on
that.

On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:
The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things 
are plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to 
ports 1-5. If the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, 
you'll have issues there too.

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Mathew Howard]

If you really wanted to, it appears you could stuff the board from a
rackmount 3011 into a 2011 desktop case.

On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> My rackmount 2011's will probably get replaced with 3011's, but they
> really need to bring out a smaller desktop 3011 as well.
>
>
> -Original Message- From: Adam Moffett
> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:23 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>
> Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on
> that.
>
> On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:
>
>> The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are
>> plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5. If
>> the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues
>> there too.
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Joe Falaschi]

That is what I took from this post: 
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=63372

We had tons of issues at a site.  Nothing made sense, CPU usage was in the 
teens, but we just saw terrible performance and packet loss at peak.  
Eventually we found out that we received more complaints on different APs and 
found the above post.  We were only using the tik as a switch at the top of the 
tower to terminate the fiber up the tower and connect the APs.  We replaced 
with a Netonix and all of our issues at this site went away.  I had no idea.  A 
warning label would have saved us months of issues trying to track it down.

Joe


On Mar 11, 2016, at 2:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:

> Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on that.
> 
> On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:
>> The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are 
>> plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5.  If 
>> the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues there 
>> too.
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[John Woodfield]

+1. I've seen a pic of a desktop 3011 floating around somewhere. They REALLY 
need to get it released...
 
 
John Woodfield, President
Delmarva WiFi Inc.
410-870-WiFi


-Original Message-
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 3:43pm
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP



My rackmount 2011's will probably get replaced with 3011's, but they really 
need to bring out a smaller desktop 3011 as well.


-Original Message- 
From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Well that's news to me! Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on
that.

On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:
> The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are 
> plugged into. Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5. 
> If the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues 
> there too.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Ken Hohhof]

My rackmount 2011's will probably get replaced with 3011's, but they really 
need to bring out a smaller desktop 3011 as well.



-Original Message- 
From: Adam Moffett

Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 2:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on
that.

On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:
The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are 
plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5. 
If the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues 
there too.

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Adam Moffett]

Well that's news to me!  Holy crap. They should put a warning sticker on 
that.


On 3/11/2016 2:20 PM, Joe Falaschi wrote:
The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things 
are plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 
1-5.  If the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll 
have issues there too.

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Robert Haas]

Now that you've said that, when we initially hung that AP I left the power
supply at the office. Thinking back I think I may have had another 1g POE
with me but it just may have a CPE POE on it.

Something for me to go look at after Louisville.

 

Thanks!

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Falaschi
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 1:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

 

We've seen performance issues if we're not using the correct power supply.
The APs need to use the 1G power supplies or you'll have issues.  You cannot
use the CPE's power supplies.  The RF link tests will be great but the tests
that run through the ethernet port will not work well.  See the attached
graph, you can definitely see when we changed out the PS in this graph of
usage.  What's weird is this AP was powered from a CMM Micro.  We re-cabled
it to run directly into a cambium power supply.  Done this on about 5 APs at
different sites and it's fixed it every time.

 

The other thing to keep in mind with the RB2011 is what port things are
plugged into.  Ports 6-10 only have a 100M aggregate link to ports 1-5.  If
the aggregate of ports 6-10 require more than 100M, you'll have issues there
too.

 

Joe Falaschi

e-vergent

 



 

On Mar 11, 2016, at 11:56 AM, Robert Haas wrote:





I have not yet. This happened right when we acquired another network so I
haven't had much time to spend diagnosing the issue. I did open a trouble
ticket with Cambium but it was closed due to inactivity.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 11:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Have you tried a router other than the 2011?  I have 1 site where I have a
2011, and It might be having this problem, but haven't done much testing
from the CPE side.  Other sites with CRS or 1100's seem to be fine.



On 3/11/2016 11:29 AM, Robert Haas wrote:



For me, no. They are all 1gb.

 

 

-Original Message-

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sovereen, David A

Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 3:42 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

 

Is this AP connected to a 100Mbps port while your others are connected to a
1000Mbps port?

 

Dave

 

On Mar 10, 2016, at 4:28 PM, Robert Haas <rob-li...@bpsnetworks.com
<mailto:rob-li...@bpsnetworks.com> > wrote:

 

We have the same issue, just at one site. Air test shows 75x20,  a speedtest
plugged into the radio shows 15x10. Plugged directly into the same port on
the router (RB2011uais-rm) maxes the backhaul link (Rocket M5 @ 20Mhz).
Tried different AP radio's, different firmwares, tried a switch between the
AP & Router, tried with the client radio in bridge & nat modes, tried with
PPPoE and with static IP's assigned.. Nothing has seemed to make a
difference at the site. We have 7 other deployments that we have not seen
this issue with that have very similar setups.

 

 

-Original Message-

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Gerlach

Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 1:21 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

 

we have the same Problem with the epmp Stuff..only problems and bugs from
the beginning!

 

2016-03-07 17:00 GMT+01:00 Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com
<mailto:darr...@ecpi.com> >:

We had seen some issues with ePMP customers on high-speed plans getting poor
speedtest results - we found that changing the customer's router's MTU from
Auto to 1480 helped immensely. Another factor was to make sure that all
backhauls in the path were running at full connection speed (in other words,
a backhaul whose Ethernet port can run at 1000M should be running at 1000M,
even if the traffic never approaches 100M) all the way out to the internet.

 

 --  Darren

 

-Original Message-

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson

Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:27 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 

Subject: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

 

Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.  We
are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them). Signals
are great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the AP we are
consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known speedtest server.
If we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which gave us the poor
throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens when going
through the wireless.   Here is what I know:

 

 

1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on the
link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was on.
Same great results.

 

2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1,
2.5

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Robert Haas]

I have not yet. This happened right when we acquired another network so I 
haven’t had much time to spend diagnosing the issue. I did open a trouble 
ticket with Cambium but it was closed due to inactivity.
 

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 11:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Have you tried a router other than the 2011?  I have 1 site where I have a 
2011, and It might be having this problem, but haven't done much testing from 
the CPE side.  Other sites with CRS or 1100's seem to be fine.



On 3/11/2016 11:29 AM, Robert Haas wrote:
> For me, no. They are all 1gb.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sovereen, David A
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 3:42 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>
> Is this AP connected to a 100Mbps port while your others are connected to a 
> 1000Mbps port?
>
> Dave
>
>> On Mar 10, 2016, at 4:28 PM, Robert Haas <rob-li...@bpsnetworks.com> wrote:
>>
>> We have the same issue, just at one site. Air test shows 75x20,  a speedtest 
>> plugged into the radio shows 15x10. Plugged directly into the same port on 
>> the router (RB2011uais-rm) maxes the backhaul link (Rocket M5 @ 20Mhz). 
>> Tried different AP radio's, different firmwares, tried a switch between the 
>> AP & Router, tried with the client radio in bridge & nat modes, tried with 
>> PPPoE and with static IP's assigned.. Nothing has seemed to make a 
>> difference at the site. We have 7 other deployments that we have not seen 
>> this issue with that have very similar setups.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Gerlach
>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 1:21 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>>
>> we have the same Problem with the epmp Stuff..only problems and bugs from 
>> the beginning!
>>
>> 2016-03-07 17:00 GMT+01:00 Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com>:
>>> We had seen some issues with ePMP customers on high-speed plans getting 
>>> poor speedtest results - we found that changing the customer's router's MTU 
>>> from Auto to 1480 helped immensely. Another factor was to make sure that 
>>> all backhauls in the path were running at full connection speed (in other 
>>> words, a backhaul whose Ethernet port can run at 1000M should be running at 
>>> 1000M, even if the traffic never approaches 100M) all the way out to the 
>>> internet.
>>>
>>>   --  Darren
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:27 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>>>
>>> Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.  We 
>>> are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them). Signals 
>>> are great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the AP we 
>>> are consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known speedtest 
>>> server.  If we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which gave us 
>>> the poor throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens 
>>> when going through the wireless.   Here is what I know:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on the 
>>> link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was on.  
>>> Same great results.
>>>
>>> 2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1, 
>>> 2.5.1, and 2.4.3.
>>>
>>> 3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.
>>>
>>> 4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.  Wireless 
>>> stinks.
>>>
>>>
>>> The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If I 
>>> plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The only 
>>> thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I refuse to 
>>> think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for that are 
>>> Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to the 
>>> 2011 are poor.  4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over 
>>> the place.  Acts like negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg 
>>> full, only accepted 100 meg on auto.
>>>
>>> Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with 10 
>>> meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did work.
>>>
>>> Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 2.4.x 
>>> SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine up to 
>>> the point it gets handed off to the ePMP.
>>>
>>> Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Nate Burke]

Have you tried a router other than the 2011?  I have 1 site where I have 
a 2011, and It might be having this problem, but haven't done much 
testing from the CPE side.  Other sites with CRS or 1100's seem to be fine.




On 3/11/2016 11:29 AM, Robert Haas wrote:

For me, no. They are all 1gb.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sovereen, David A
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 3:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Is this AP connected to a 100Mbps port while your others are connected to a 
1000Mbps port?

Dave


On Mar 10, 2016, at 4:28 PM, Robert Haas <rob-li...@bpsnetworks.com> wrote:

We have the same issue, just at one site. Air test shows 75x20,  a speedtest plugged 
into the radio shows 15x10. Plugged directly into the same port on the router 
(RB2011uais-rm) maxes the backhaul link (Rocket M5 @ 20Mhz). Tried different AP 
radio's, different firmwares, tried a switch between the AP & Router, tried with 
the client radio in bridge & nat modes, tried with PPPoE and with static IP's 
assigned.. Nothing has seemed to make a difference at the site. We have 7 other 
deployments that we have not seen this issue with that have very similar setups.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Gerlach
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 1:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

we have the same Problem with the epmp Stuff..only problems and bugs from the 
beginning!

2016-03-07 17:00 GMT+01:00 Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com>:

We had seen some issues with ePMP customers on high-speed plans getting poor 
speedtest results - we found that changing the customer's router's MTU from 
Auto to 1480 helped immensely. Another factor was to make sure that all 
backhauls in the path were running at full connection speed (in other words, a 
backhaul whose Ethernet port can run at 1000M should be running at 1000M, even 
if the traffic never approaches 100M) all the way out to the internet.

  --  Darren

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.  We are 
seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them). Signals are 
great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the AP we are 
consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known speedtest server.  If 
we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which gave us the poor 
throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens when going 
through the wireless.   Here is what I know:


1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on the 
link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was on.  Same 
great results.

2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1, 2.5.1, 
and 2.4.3.

3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.

4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.  Wireless stinks.


The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If I plug 
into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The only thing 
that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I refuse to think 6 
cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for that are Powerball 
winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to the 2011 are poor.  
4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over the place.  Acts like 
negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg full, only accepted 100 meg 
on auto.

Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with 10 meg 
packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did work.

Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 2.4.x 
SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine up to the 
point it gets handed off to the ePMP.

Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?

Justin

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Robert Haas]

For me, no. They are all 1gb.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sovereen, David A
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 3:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Is this AP connected to a 100Mbps port while your others are connected to a 
1000Mbps port?

Dave

> On Mar 10, 2016, at 4:28 PM, Robert Haas <rob-li...@bpsnetworks.com> wrote:
> 
> We have the same issue, just at one site. Air test shows 75x20,  a speedtest 
> plugged into the radio shows 15x10. Plugged directly into the same port on 
> the router (RB2011uais-rm) maxes the backhaul link (Rocket M5 @ 20Mhz). Tried 
> different AP radio's, different firmwares, tried a switch between the AP & 
> Router, tried with the client radio in bridge & nat modes, tried with PPPoE 
> and with static IP's assigned.. Nothing has seemed to make a difference at 
> the site. We have 7 other deployments that we have not seen this issue with 
> that have very similar setups.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Gerlach
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 1:21 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
> 
> we have the same Problem with the epmp Stuff..only problems and bugs from the 
> beginning!
> 
> 2016-03-07 17:00 GMT+01:00 Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com>:
>> We had seen some issues with ePMP customers on high-speed plans getting poor 
>> speedtest results - we found that changing the customer's router's MTU from 
>> Auto to 1480 helped immensely. Another factor was to make sure that all 
>> backhauls in the path were running at full connection speed (in other words, 
>> a backhaul whose Ethernet port can run at 1000M should be running at 1000M, 
>> even if the traffic never approaches 100M) all the way out to the internet.
>> 
>>  --  Darren
>> 
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
>> Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:27 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>> 
>> Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.  We 
>> are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them). Signals 
>> are great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the AP we are 
>> consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known speedtest server.  
>> If we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which gave us the poor 
>> throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens when going 
>> through the wireless.   Here is what I know:
>> 
>> 
>> 1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on the 
>> link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was on.  
>> Same great results.
>> 
>> 2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1, 
>> 2.5.1, and 2.4.3.
>> 
>> 3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.
>> 
>> 4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.  Wireless 
>> stinks.
>> 
>> 
>> The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If I 
>> plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The only 
>> thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I refuse to 
>> think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for that are 
>> Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to the 2011 
>> are poor.  4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over the 
>> place.  Acts like negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg full, 
>> only accepted 100 meg on auto.
>> 
>> Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with 10 
>> meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did work.
>> 
>> Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 2.4.x 
>> SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine up to the 
>> point it gets handed off to the ePMP.
>> 
>> Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?
>> 
>> Justin
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Ken Hohhof]

Is this the same problem some people are saying is a Trango buffer problem, 
but somehow only happens with ePMP?



-Original Message- 
From: Robert Haas

Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 3:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

We have the same issue, just at one site. Air test shows 75x20,  a speedtest 
plugged into the radio shows 15x10. Plugged directly into the same port on 
the router (RB2011uais-rm) maxes the backhaul link (Rocket M5 @ 20Mhz). 
Tried different AP radio's, different firmwares, tried a switch between the 
AP & Router, tried with the client radio in bridge & nat modes, tried with 
PPPoE and with static IP's assigned.. Nothing has seemed to make a 
difference at the site. We have 7 other deployments that we have not seen 
this issue with that have very similar setups.



-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Gerlach
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 1:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

we have the same Problem with the epmp Stuff..only problems and bugs from 
the beginning!


2016-03-07 17:00 GMT+01:00 Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com>:
We had seen some issues with ePMP customers on high-speed plans getting 
poor speedtest results - we found that changing the customer's router's 
MTU from Auto to 1480 helped immensely. Another factor was to make sure 
that all backhauls in the path were running at full connection speed (in 
other words, a backhaul whose Ethernet port can run at 1000M should be 
running at 1000M, even if the traffic never approaches 100M) all the way 
out to the internet.


  --  Darren

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.  We 
are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them). 
Signals are great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the 
AP we are consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known 
speedtest server.  If we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, 
which gave us the poor throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. 
Issue only happens when going through the wireless.   Here is what I know:



1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on 
the link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was 
on.  Same great results.


2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1, 
2.5.1, and 2.4.3.


3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.

4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.  Wireless 
stinks.



The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If I 
plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The only 
thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I refuse to 
think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for that 
are Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to 
the 2011 are poor.  4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all 
over the place.  Acts like negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 
meg full, only accepted 100 meg on auto.


Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with 10 
meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did work.


Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 
2.4.x SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine 
up to the point it gets handed off to the ePMP.


Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?

Justin

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Sovereen, David A]

Is this AP connected to a 100Mbps port while your others are connected to a 
1000Mbps port?

Dave

> On Mar 10, 2016, at 4:28 PM, Robert Haas <rob-li...@bpsnetworks.com> wrote:
> 
> We have the same issue, just at one site. Air test shows 75x20,  a speedtest 
> plugged into the radio shows 15x10. Plugged directly into the same port on 
> the router (RB2011uais-rm) maxes the backhaul link (Rocket M5 @ 20Mhz). Tried 
> different AP radio's, different firmwares, tried a switch between the AP & 
> Router, tried with the client radio in bridge & nat modes, tried with PPPoE 
> and with static IP's assigned.. Nothing has seemed to make a difference at 
> the site. We have 7 other deployments that we have not seen this issue with 
> that have very similar setups.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Gerlach
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 1:21 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
> 
> we have the same Problem with the epmp Stuff..only problems and bugs from the 
> beginning!
> 
> 2016-03-07 17:00 GMT+01:00 Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com>:
>> We had seen some issues with ePMP customers on high-speed plans getting poor 
>> speedtest results - we found that changing the customer's router's MTU from 
>> Auto to 1480 helped immensely. Another factor was to make sure that all 
>> backhauls in the path were running at full connection speed (in other words, 
>> a backhaul whose Ethernet port can run at 1000M should be running at 1000M, 
>> even if the traffic never approaches 100M) all the way out to the internet.
>> 
>>  --  Darren
>> 
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
>> Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:27 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>> 
>> Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.  We 
>> are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them). Signals 
>> are great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the AP we are 
>> consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known speedtest server.  
>> If we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which gave us the poor 
>> throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens when going 
>> through the wireless.   Here is what I know:
>> 
>> 
>> 1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on the 
>> link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was on.  
>> Same great results.
>> 
>> 2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1, 
>> 2.5.1, and 2.4.3.
>> 
>> 3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.
>> 
>> 4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.  Wireless 
>> stinks.
>> 
>> 
>> The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If I 
>> plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The only 
>> thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I refuse to 
>> think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for that are 
>> Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to the 2011 
>> are poor.  4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over the 
>> place.  Acts like negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg full, 
>> only accepted 100 meg on auto.
>> 
>> Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with 10 
>> meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did work.
>> 
>> Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 2.4.x 
>> SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine up to the 
>> point it gets handed off to the ePMP.
>> 
>> Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?
>> 
>> Justin
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Robert Haas]

We have the same issue, just at one site. Air test shows 75x20,  a speedtest 
plugged into the radio shows 15x10. Plugged directly into the same port on the 
router (RB2011uais-rm) maxes the backhaul link (Rocket M5 @ 20Mhz). Tried 
different AP radio's, different firmwares, tried a switch between the AP & 
Router, tried with the client radio in bridge & nat modes, tried with PPPoE and 
with static IP's assigned.. Nothing has seemed to make a difference at the 
site. We have 7 other deployments that we have not seen this issue with that 
have very similar setups.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Gerlach
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 1:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

we have the same Problem with the epmp Stuff..only problems and bugs from the 
beginning!

2016-03-07 17:00 GMT+01:00 Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com>:
> We had seen some issues with ePMP customers on high-speed plans getting poor 
> speedtest results - we found that changing the customer's router's MTU from 
> Auto to 1480 helped immensely. Another factor was to make sure that all 
> backhauls in the path were running at full connection speed (in other words, 
> a backhaul whose Ethernet port can run at 1000M should be running at 1000M, 
> even if the traffic never approaches 100M) all the way out to the internet.
>
>   --  Darren
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
> Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:27 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>
> Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.  We are 
> seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them). Signals are 
> great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the AP we are 
> consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known speedtest server.  If 
> we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which gave us the poor 
> throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens when going 
> through the wireless.   Here is what I know:
>
>
> 1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on the 
> link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was on.  
> Same great results.
>
> 2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1, 2.5.1, 
> and 2.4.3.
>
> 3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.
>
> 4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.  Wireless 
> stinks.
>
>
> The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If I 
> plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The only 
> thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I refuse to 
> think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for that are 
> Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to the 2011 
> are poor.  4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over the 
> place.  Acts like negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg full, 
> only accepted 100 meg on auto.
>
> Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with 10 meg 
> packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did work.
>
> Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 2.4.x 
> SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine up to the 
> point it gets handed off to the ePMP.
>
> Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?
>
> Justin
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Daniel Gerlach]

Backhaul is PTP 800

2016-03-10 20:52 GMT+01:00 Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com>:
> Yeah... but what is the backhaul? specifically, is it an ePMP in TDD mode?
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Daniel Gerlach <danielgerl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> at the Switch Port full Speed with speedtest.net..webgui speed test
>> 120/50 and with speedtest from CPE 17/10 with MCS 14-15
>>
>> 2016-03-10 20:21 GMT+01:00 Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>:
>> > Mind if I ask what you're using for backhauls?  I've got no issues.  I'm
>> > seeing fantastic speeds all the way around.
>> >
>> >
>> > Josh Luthman
>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>> > 1100 Wayne St
>> > Suite 1337
>> > Troy, OH 45373
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Daniel Gerlach
>> > <danielgerl...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> we have the same Problem with the epmp Stuff..only problems and bugs
>> >> from the beginning!
>> >>
>> >> 2016-03-07 17:00 GMT+01:00 Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com>:
>> >> > We had seen some issues with ePMP customers on high-speed plans
>> >> > getting
>> >> > poor speedtest results - we found that changing the customer's
>> >> > router's MTU
>> >> > from Auto to 1480 helped immensely. Another factor was to make sure
>> >> > that all
>> >> > backhauls in the path were running at full connection speed (in other
>> >> > words,
>> >> > a backhaul whose Ethernet port can run at 1000M should be running at
>> >> > 1000M,
>> >> > even if the traffic never approaches 100M) all the way out to the
>> >> > internet.
>> >> >
>> >> >   --  Darren
>> >> >
>> >> > -Original Message-
>> >> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
>> >> > Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:27 AM
>> >> > To: af@afmug.com
>> >> > Subject: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>> >> >
>> >> > Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.
>> >> > We are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of
>> >> > them).
>> >> > Signals are great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going
>> >> > through the
>> >> > AP we are consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known
>> >> > speedtest
>> >> > server.  If we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which
>> >> > gave us
>> >> > the poor throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only
>> >> > happens
>> >> > when going through the wireless.   Here is what I know:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > 1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg
>> >> > on
>> >> > the link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client
>> >> > was on.
>> >> > Same great results.
>> >> >
>> >> > 2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on
>> >> > 2.6.1,
>> >> > 2.5.1, and 2.4.3.
>> >> >
>> >> > 3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.
>> >> >
>> >> > 4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.
>> >> > Wireless
>> >> > stinks.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.
>> >> > If
>> >> > I plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great.
>> >> > The only
>> >> > thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I
>> >> > refuse to
>> >> > think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for
>> >> > that are
>> >> > Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to
>> >> > the 2011
>> >> > are poor.  4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over
>> >> > the
>> >> > place.  Acts like negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg
>> >> > full,
>> >> > only accepted 100 meg on auto.
>> >> >
>> >> > Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those
>> >> > with
>> >> > 10 meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages
>> >> > did
>> >> > work.
>> >> >
>> >> > Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and
>> >> > 2.4.x SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just
>> >> > fine up
>> >> > to the point it gets handed off to the ePMP.
>> >> >
>> >> > Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?
>> >> >
>> >> > Justin
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah... but what is the backhaul? specifically, is it an ePMP in TDD mode?

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Daniel Gerlach <danielgerl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> at the Switch Port full Speed with speedtest.net..webgui speed test
> 120/50 and with speedtest from CPE 17/10 with MCS 14-15
>
> 2016-03-10 20:21 GMT+01:00 Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>:
> > Mind if I ask what you're using for backhauls?  I've got no issues.  I'm
> > seeing fantastic speeds all the way around.
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Daniel Gerlach <danielgerl...@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> we have the same Problem with the epmp Stuff..only problems and bugs
> >> from the beginning!
> >>
> >> 2016-03-07 17:00 GMT+01:00 Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com>:
> >> > We had seen some issues with ePMP customers on high-speed plans
> getting
> >> > poor speedtest results - we found that changing the customer's
> router's MTU
> >> > from Auto to 1480 helped immensely. Another factor was to make sure
> that all
> >> > backhauls in the path were running at full connection speed (in other
> words,
> >> > a backhaul whose Ethernet port can run at 1000M should be running at
> 1000M,
> >> > even if the traffic never approaches 100M) all the way out to the
> internet.
> >> >
> >> >   --  Darren
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
> >> > Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:27 AM
> >> > To: af@afmug.com
> >> > Subject: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
> >> >
> >> > Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.
> >> > We are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them).
> >> > Signals are great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going
> through the
> >> > AP we are consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known
> speedtest
> >> > server.  If we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which
> gave us
> >> > the poor throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only
> happens
> >> > when going through the wireless.   Here is what I know:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg
> on
> >> > the link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client
> was on.
> >> > Same great results.
> >> >
> >> > 2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1,
> >> > 2.5.1, and 2.4.3.
> >> >
> >> > 3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.
> >> >
> >> > 4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.
> Wireless
> >> > stinks.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.
> If
> >> > I plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great.
> The only
> >> > thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I
> refuse to
> >> > think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for
> that are
> >> > Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to
> the 2011
> >> > are poor.  4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over
> the
> >> > place.  Acts like negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg
> full,
> >> > only accepted 100 meg on auto.
> >> >
> >> > Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with
> >> > 10 meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages
> did
> >> > work.
> >> >
> >> > Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and
> >> > 2.4.x SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just
> fine up
> >> > to the point it gets handed off to the ePMP.
> >> >
> >> > Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?
> >> >
> >> > Justin
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Daniel Gerlach]

at the Switch Port full Speed with speedtest.net..webgui speed test
120/50 and with speedtest from CPE 17/10 with MCS 14-15

2016-03-10 20:21 GMT+01:00 Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>:
> Mind if I ask what you're using for backhauls?  I've got no issues.  I'm
> seeing fantastic speeds all the way around.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Daniel Gerlach <danielgerl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> we have the same Problem with the epmp Stuff..only problems and bugs
>> from the beginning!
>>
>> 2016-03-07 17:00 GMT+01:00 Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com>:
>> > We had seen some issues with ePMP customers on high-speed plans getting
>> > poor speedtest results - we found that changing the customer's router's MTU
>> > from Auto to 1480 helped immensely. Another factor was to make sure that 
>> > all
>> > backhauls in the path were running at full connection speed (in other 
>> > words,
>> > a backhaul whose Ethernet port can run at 1000M should be running at 1000M,
>> > even if the traffic never approaches 100M) all the way out to the internet.
>> >
>> >   --  Darren
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
>> > Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:27 AM
>> > To: af@afmug.com
>> > Subject: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>> >
>> > Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.
>> > We are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them).
>> > Signals are great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the
>> > AP we are consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known speedtest
>> > server.  If we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which gave us
>> > the poor throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens
>> > when going through the wireless.   Here is what I know:
>> >
>> >
>> > 1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on
>> > the link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was 
>> > on.
>> > Same great results.
>> >
>> > 2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1,
>> > 2.5.1, and 2.4.3.
>> >
>> > 3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.
>> >
>> > 4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.  Wireless
>> > stinks.
>> >
>> >
>> > The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If
>> > I plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The 
>> > only
>> > thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I refuse to
>> > think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for that are
>> > Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to the 
>> > 2011
>> > are poor.  4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over the
>> > place.  Acts like negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg full,
>> > only accepted 100 meg on auto.
>> >
>> > Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with
>> > 10 meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did
>> > work.
>> >
>> > Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and
>> > 2.4.x SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine up
>> > to the point it gets handed off to the ePMP.
>> >
>> > Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?
>> >
>> > Justin
>> >
>> >
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Josh Luthman]

Mind if I ask what you're using for backhauls?  I've got no issues.  I'm
seeing fantastic speeds all the way around.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 2:21 PM, Daniel Gerlach <danielgerl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> we have the same Problem with the epmp Stuff..only problems and bugs
> from the beginning!
>
> 2016-03-07 17:00 GMT+01:00 Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com>:
> > We had seen some issues with ePMP customers on high-speed plans getting
> poor speedtest results - we found that changing the customer's router's MTU
> from Auto to 1480 helped immensely. Another factor was to make sure that
> all backhauls in the path were running at full connection speed (in other
> words, a backhaul whose Ethernet port can run at 1000M should be running at
> 1000M, even if the traffic never approaches 100M) all the way out to the
> internet.
> >
> >   --  Darren
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
> > Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:27 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
> >
> > Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.
> We are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them).
> Signals are great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the
> AP we are consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known speedtest
> server.  If we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which gave us
> the poor throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens
> when going through the wireless.   Here is what I know:
> >
> >
> > 1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on
> the link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was
> on.  Same great results.
> >
> > 2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1,
> 2.5.1, and 2.4.3.
> >
> > 3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.
> >
> > 4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.  Wireless
> stinks.
> >
> >
> > The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If
> I plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The
> only thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I
> refuse to think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds
> for that are Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an
> SM to the 2011 are poor.  4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but
> all over the place.  Acts like negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to
> 100 meg full, only accepted 100 meg on auto.
> >
> > Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with
> 10 meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did
> work.
> >
> > Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and
> 2.4.x SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine up
> to the point it gets handed off to the ePMP.
> >
> > Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?
> >
> > Justin
> >
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Daniel Gerlach]

we have the same Problem with the epmp Stuff..only problems and bugs
from the beginning!

2016-03-07 17:00 GMT+01:00 Darren Shea <darr...@ecpi.com>:
> We had seen some issues with ePMP customers on high-speed plans getting poor 
> speedtest results - we found that changing the customer's router's MTU from 
> Auto to 1480 helped immensely. Another factor was to make sure that all 
> backhauls in the path were running at full connection speed (in other words, 
> a backhaul whose Ethernet port can run at 1000M should be running at 1000M, 
> even if the traffic never approaches 100M) all the way out to the internet.
>
>   --  Darren
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
> Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:27 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>
> Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.  We are 
> seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them). Signals are 
> great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the AP we are 
> consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known speedtest server.  If 
> we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which gave us the poor 
> throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens when going 
> through the wireless.   Here is what I know:
>
>
> 1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on the 
> link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was on.  
> Same great results.
>
> 2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1, 2.5.1, 
> and 2.4.3.
>
> 3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.
>
> 4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.  Wireless 
> stinks.
>
>
> The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If I 
> plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The only 
> thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I refuse to 
> think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for that are 
> Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to the 2011 
> are poor.  4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over the 
> place.  Acts like negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg full, 
> only accepted 100 meg on auto.
>
> Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with 10 meg 
> packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did work.
>
> Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 2.4.x 
> SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine up to the 
> point it gets handed off to the ePMP.
>
> Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?
>
> Justin
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Darren Shea]

We had seen some issues with ePMP customers on high-speed plans getting poor 
speedtest results - we found that changing the customer's router's MTU from 
Auto to 1480 helped immensely. Another factor was to make sure that all 
backhauls in the path were running at full connection speed (in other words, a 
backhaul whose Ethernet port can run at 1000M should be running at 1000M, even 
if the traffic never approaches 100M) all the way out to the internet.

  --  Darren

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 10:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.  We are 
seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them). Signals are 
great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the AP we are 
consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known speedtest server.  If 
we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which gave us the poor 
throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens when going 
through the wireless.   Here is what I know:


1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on the 
link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was on.  Same 
great results.

2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1, 2.5.1, 
and 2.4.3.

3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.

4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.  Wireless stinks.


The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If I plug 
into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The only thing 
that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I refuse to think 6 
cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for that are Powerball 
winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to the 2011 are poor.  
4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over the place.  Acts like 
negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg full, only accepted 100 meg 
on auto.

Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with 10 meg 
packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did work.

Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 2.4.x 
SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine up to the 
point it gets handed off to the ePMP.

Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?

Justin

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[George Skorup]

Yes. My HW ID 2 links were even worse than the ID 1's. The GUI via 
in-band management wouldn't even load. I couldn't get the links to push 
more than about 140Mbps. Trango put out 3.1.5, but it didn't work on my 
radios for whatever reason. They finished up 3.2.0 (which runs on ID2 
OMUs only, and will also not talk to 3.1.5). They said they improved the 
internal switch/modem flow control. I'm able to get full throughput out 
of a 40MHz/256QAM link and a 56MHz/256QAM link now.


I haven't updated the ID 1's to 3.1.5 yet. Bench tested it on a couple 
spare radios and IBM has issues. I get no ARP reply from the radios. 
They said they reproduced it in the lab. All of our ApexPlus links have 
only the data port cabled, so we have to use IBM, and I cannot have it 
break.


On 3/6/2016 4:49 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
Are you saying there is some buffer bloat (or some other buffer issue) 
in the ApexPlus?


bp


On 3/6/2016 1:42 PM, George Skorup wrote:

What about sync/GPS? And are you on 2.5 or 5ms framing?

Nate @ Blast and I had a similar issue. We had 450 + Ubiquiti + 
Trango ApexPlus. Throughput was fine on the PMP450. Directly 
attaching to the switch/router at the Trango link showed no apparent 
issues. Across a Rocket link, the clients behind it (some UBNT, FSK 
and 450) would see a burst of 10-12Mbps and then it would dwindle to 
3-5Mbps. We swapped the Rockets for a set of ePMP. Throughput got 
much better with the link in ePTP (2.5ms) mode. So my first thought 
was that the Rocket link just sucked, and it did, but we were still 
getting some speed complaints and not even at peak utilization. 
Something else was going on.


And then Nate posted about very similar issues. He had a client on a 
450 and an ePMP. Throughput on the 450 was fine, ePMP not so much. 
And really only when he had the traffic going across his Trango link. 
That's when Gino mentioned the ApexPlus ethernet packet buffer issue. 
The shorter frame duration would allow the Trango buffer to empty a 
little faster, hiding the problem just a little bit. Ultimately, 
Trango needed to get their buffer issue sorted out, and they did.


I wrote all that to ask this... what's farther upstream from this site?

On 3/6/2016 10:26 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two 
backhauls.  We are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs 
(all of them). Signals are great. Quality and capacity are great.  
When going through the AP we are consistently seeing 4-5 megs of 
download out to a known speedtest server.  If we plug into the same 
wired port on which the AP, which gave us the poor throughput, we 
can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens when going 
through the wireless.   Here is what I know:



1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg 
on the link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one 
client was on.  Same great results.


2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 
2.6.1, 2.5.1, and 2.4.3.


3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.

4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine. 
Wireless stinks.



The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  
If I plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are 
great. The only thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to 
AP, or AP.  I refuse to think 6 cables on the tower do the exact 
same thing.  The odds for that are Powerball winning crazy. 
Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to the 2011 are poor.  4-5 
megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over the place.  
Acts like negotiation. Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg full, 
only accepted 100 meg on auto.


Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this. Those 
with 10 meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg 
packages did work.


Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 
and 2.4.x SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out 
just fine up to the point it gets handed off to the ePMP.


Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?

Justin

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[George Skorup]

Flow control on made the link unusable due to even higher packet loss 
and jitter.


On 3/6/2016 5:02 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Wouldn't the Trango just dump its buffer to the router at line rate?  
Unless you have flow control.


It also seems this might be limited to the situation where most of the 
backhaul traffic is going to one customer.



-Original Message- From: George Skorup
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 4:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Through a site router, yes, that's exactly what I was seeing.

On 3/6/2016 4:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Are you saying this is an upstream problem?  I don't see how what you 
describe can happen with downstream traffic if you have a tower 
router with interface buffers.



-Original Message- From: George Skorup
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 3:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

What about sync/GPS? And are you on 2.5 or 5ms framing?

Nate @ Blast and I had a similar issue. We had 450 + Ubiquiti + Trango
ApexPlus. Throughput was fine on the PMP450. Directly attaching to the
switch/router at the Trango link showed no apparent issues. Across a
Rocket link, the clients behind it (some UBNT, FSK and 450) would see a
burst of 10-12Mbps and then it would dwindle to 3-5Mbps. We swapped the
Rockets for a set of ePMP. Throughput got much better with the link in
ePTP (2.5ms) mode. So my first thought was that the Rocket link just
sucked, and it did, but we were still getting some speed complaints and
not even at peak utilization. Something else was going on.

And then Nate posted about very similar issues. He had a client on a 450
and an ePMP. Throughput on the 450 was fine, ePMP not so much. And
really only when he had the traffic going across his Trango link. That's
when Gino mentioned the ApexPlus ethernet packet buffer issue. The
shorter frame duration would allow the Trango buffer to empty a little
faster, hiding the problem just a little bit. Ultimately, Trango needed
to get their buffer issue sorted out, and they did.

I wrote all that to ask this... what's farther upstream from this site?

On 3/6/2016 10:26 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two 
backhauls.  We are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs 
(all of them). Signals are great. Quality and capacity are great.  
When going through the AP we are consistently seeing 4-5 megs of 
download out to a known speedtest server.  If we plug into the same 
wired port on which the AP, which gave us the poor throughput, we 
can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens when going 
through the wireless.   Here is what I know:



1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg 
on the link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one 
client was on.  Same great results.


2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 
2.6.1, 2.5.1, and 2.4.3.


3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.

4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine. 
Wireless stinks.



The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  
If I plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are 
great. The only thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to 
AP, or AP.  I refuse to think 6 cables on the tower do the exact 
same thing.  The odds for that are Powerball winning crazy. 
Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to the 2011 are poor.  4-5 
megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over the place.  
Acts like negotiation. Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg full, 
only accepted 100 meg on auto.


Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this. Those 
with 10 meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg 
packages did work.


Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 
and 2.4.x SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out 
just fine up to the point it gets handed off to the ePMP.


Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?

Justin

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Josh Luthman]

Can you try 10 meg eth ports and see if it goes up (slightly)?  Rf tests
are good so the issue has to be eth ports.

FYI I've had an rb2011 for a year and change no issues.  Customers getting
30 megs using 75/25 at 5ms frames.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mar 6, 2016 6:02 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> Wouldn't the Trango just dump its buffer to the router at line rate?
> Unless you have flow control.
>
> It also seems this might be limited to the situation where most of the
> backhaul traffic is going to one customer.
>
>
> -Original Message- From: George Skorup
> Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 4:54 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>
> Through a site router, yes, that's exactly what I was seeing.
>
> On 3/6/2016 4:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
>> Are you saying this is an upstream problem?  I don't see how what you
>> describe can happen with downstream traffic if you have a tower router with
>> interface buffers.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message----- From: George Skorup
>> Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 3:42 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP
>>
>> What about sync/GPS? And are you on 2.5 or 5ms framing?
>>
>> Nate @ Blast and I had a similar issue. We had 450 + Ubiquiti + Trango
>> ApexPlus. Throughput was fine on the PMP450. Directly attaching to the
>> switch/router at the Trango link showed no apparent issues. Across a
>> Rocket link, the clients behind it (some UBNT, FSK and 450) would see a
>> burst of 10-12Mbps and then it would dwindle to 3-5Mbps. We swapped the
>> Rockets for a set of ePMP. Throughput got much better with the link in
>> ePTP (2.5ms) mode. So my first thought was that the Rocket link just
>> sucked, and it did, but we were still getting some speed complaints and
>> not even at peak utilization. Something else was going on.
>>
>> And then Nate posted about very similar issues. He had a client on a 450
>> and an ePMP. Throughput on the 450 was fine, ePMP not so much. And
>> really only when he had the traffic going across his Trango link. That's
>> when Gino mentioned the ApexPlus ethernet packet buffer issue. The
>> shorter frame duration would allow the Trango buffer to empty a little
>> faster, hiding the problem just a little bit. Ultimately, Trango needed
>> to get their buffer issue sorted out, and they did.
>>
>> I wrote all that to ask this... what's farther upstream from this site?
>>
>> On 3/6/2016 10:26 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
>>
>>> Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.
>>> We are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them).
>>> Signals are great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the
>>> AP we are consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known speedtest
>>> server.  If we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which gave us
>>> the poor throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens
>>> when going through the wireless.   Here is what I know:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on
>>> the link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was
>>> on.  Same great results.
>>>
>>> 2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1,
>>> 2.5.1, and 2.4.3.
>>>
>>> 3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.
>>>
>>> 4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine. Wireless
>>> stinks.
>>>
>>>
>>> The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If
>>> I plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The
>>> only thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I
>>> refuse to think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds
>>> for that are Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an
>>> SM to the 2011 are poor.  4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but
>>> all over the place.  Acts like negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to
>>> 100 meg full, only accepted 100 meg on auto.
>>>
>>> Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this. Those with 10
>>> meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did work.
>>>
>>> Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and
>>> 2.4.x SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine up
>>> to the point it gets handed off to the ePMP.
>>>
>>> Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Ken Hohhof]

Wouldn't the Trango just dump its buffer to the router at line rate?  Unless 
you have flow control.


It also seems this might be limited to the situation where most of the 
backhaul traffic is going to one customer.



-Original Message- 
From: George Skorup

Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 4:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

Through a site router, yes, that's exactly what I was seeing.

On 3/6/2016 4:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Are you saying this is an upstream problem?  I don't see how what you 
describe can happen with downstream traffic if you have a tower router 
with interface buffers.



-Original Message- From: George Skorup
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 3:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

What about sync/GPS? And are you on 2.5 or 5ms framing?

Nate @ Blast and I had a similar issue. We had 450 + Ubiquiti + Trango
ApexPlus. Throughput was fine on the PMP450. Directly attaching to the
switch/router at the Trango link showed no apparent issues. Across a
Rocket link, the clients behind it (some UBNT, FSK and 450) would see a
burst of 10-12Mbps and then it would dwindle to 3-5Mbps. We swapped the
Rockets for a set of ePMP. Throughput got much better with the link in
ePTP (2.5ms) mode. So my first thought was that the Rocket link just
sucked, and it did, but we were still getting some speed complaints and
not even at peak utilization. Something else was going on.

And then Nate posted about very similar issues. He had a client on a 450
and an ePMP. Throughput on the 450 was fine, ePMP not so much. And
really only when he had the traffic going across his Trango link. That's
when Gino mentioned the ApexPlus ethernet packet buffer issue. The
shorter frame duration would allow the Trango buffer to empty a little
faster, hiding the problem just a little bit. Ultimately, Trango needed
to get their buffer issue sorted out, and they did.

I wrote all that to ask this... what's farther upstream from this site?

On 3/6/2016 10:26 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.  We 
are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them). 
Signals are great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through 
the AP we are consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known 
speedtest server.  If we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, 
which gave us the poor throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. 
Issue only happens when going through the wireless.   Here is what I 
know:



1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on 
the link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was 
on.  Same great results.


2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1, 
2.5.1, and 2.4.3.


3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.

4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine. Wireless 
stinks.



The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If I 
plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The 
only thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I 
refuse to think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds 
for that are Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to 
an SM to the 2011 are poor.  4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, 
but all over the place.  Acts like negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to 
Auto, to 100 meg full, only accepted 100 meg on auto.


Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this. Those with 10 
meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did 
work.


Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 
2.4.x SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine 
up to the point it gets handed off to the ePMP.


Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?

Justin

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[George Skorup]

Through a site router, yes, that's exactly what I was seeing.

On 3/6/2016 4:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Are you saying this is an upstream problem?  I don't see how what you 
describe can happen with downstream traffic if you have a tower router 
with interface buffers.



-Original Message- From: George Skorup
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 3:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

What about sync/GPS? And are you on 2.5 or 5ms framing?

Nate @ Blast and I had a similar issue. We had 450 + Ubiquiti + Trango
ApexPlus. Throughput was fine on the PMP450. Directly attaching to the
switch/router at the Trango link showed no apparent issues. Across a
Rocket link, the clients behind it (some UBNT, FSK and 450) would see a
burst of 10-12Mbps and then it would dwindle to 3-5Mbps. We swapped the
Rockets for a set of ePMP. Throughput got much better with the link in
ePTP (2.5ms) mode. So my first thought was that the Rocket link just
sucked, and it did, but we were still getting some speed complaints and
not even at peak utilization. Something else was going on.

And then Nate posted about very similar issues. He had a client on a 450
and an ePMP. Throughput on the 450 was fine, ePMP not so much. And
really only when he had the traffic going across his Trango link. That's
when Gino mentioned the ApexPlus ethernet packet buffer issue. The
shorter frame duration would allow the Trango buffer to empty a little
faster, hiding the problem just a little bit. Ultimately, Trango needed
to get their buffer issue sorted out, and they did.

I wrote all that to ask this... what's farther upstream from this site?

On 3/6/2016 10:26 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two 
backhauls.  We are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs 
(all of them). Signals are great. Quality and capacity are great.  
When going through the AP we are consistently seeing 4-5 megs of 
download out to a known speedtest server.  If we plug into the same 
wired port on which the AP, which gave us the poor throughput, we can 
max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens when going through the 
wireless.   Here is what I know:



1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg 
on the link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one 
client was on.  Same great results.


2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 
2.6.1, 2.5.1, and 2.4.3.


3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.

4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine. 
Wireless stinks.



The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  
If I plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are 
great. The only thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to 
AP, or AP.  I refuse to think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same 
thing.  The odds for that are Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from 
a laptop hooked to an SM to the 2011 are poor.  4-5 megs consistent 
with spikes up to 10-13, but all over the place.  Acts like 
negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg full, only 
accepted 100 meg on auto.


Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this. Those with 
10 meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages 
did work.


Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 
2.4.x SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just 
fine up to the point it gets handed off to the ePMP.


Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?

Justin

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Bill Prince]

Are you saying there is some buffer bloat (or some other buffer issue) 
in the ApexPlus?


bp


On 3/6/2016 1:42 PM, George Skorup wrote:

What about sync/GPS? And are you on 2.5 or 5ms framing?

Nate @ Blast and I had a similar issue. We had 450 + Ubiquiti + Trango 
ApexPlus. Throughput was fine on the PMP450. Directly attaching to the 
switch/router at the Trango link showed no apparent issues. Across a 
Rocket link, the clients behind it (some UBNT, FSK and 450) would see 
a burst of 10-12Mbps and then it would dwindle to 3-5Mbps. We swapped 
the Rockets for a set of ePMP. Throughput got much better with the 
link in ePTP (2.5ms) mode. So my first thought was that the Rocket 
link just sucked, and it did, but we were still getting some speed 
complaints and not even at peak utilization. Something else was going on.


And then Nate posted about very similar issues. He had a client on a 
450 and an ePMP. Throughput on the 450 was fine, ePMP not so much. And 
really only when he had the traffic going across his Trango link. 
That's when Gino mentioned the ApexPlus ethernet packet buffer issue. 
The shorter frame duration would allow the Trango buffer to empty a 
little faster, hiding the problem just a little bit. Ultimately, 
Trango needed to get their buffer issue sorted out, and they did.


I wrote all that to ask this... what's farther upstream from this site?

On 3/6/2016 10:26 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two 
backhauls.  We are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs 
(all of them). Signals are great. Quality and capacity are great.  
When going through the AP we are consistently seeing 4-5 megs of 
download out to a known speedtest server.  If we plug into the same 
wired port on which the AP, which gave us the poor throughput, we can 
max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens when going through the 
wireless.   Here is what I know:



1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg 
on the link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one 
client was on.  Same great results.


2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 
2.6.1, 2.5.1, and 2.4.3.


3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.

4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine. 
Wireless stinks.



The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  
If I plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are 
great. The only thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to 
AP, or AP.  I refuse to think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same 
thing.  The odds for that are Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from 
a laptop hooked to an SM to the 2011 are poor.  4-5 megs consistent 
with spikes up to 10-13, but all over the place.  Acts like 
negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg full, only 
accepted 100 meg on auto.


Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this. Those with 
10 meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages 
did work.


Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 
2.4.x SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just 
fine up to the point it gets handed off to the ePMP.


Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?

Justin

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Ken Hohhof]

Are you saying this is an upstream problem?  I don't see how what you 
describe can happen with downstream traffic if you have a tower router with 
interface buffers.



-Original Message- 
From: George Skorup

Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 3:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

What about sync/GPS? And are you on 2.5 or 5ms framing?

Nate @ Blast and I had a similar issue. We had 450 + Ubiquiti + Trango
ApexPlus. Throughput was fine on the PMP450. Directly attaching to the
switch/router at the Trango link showed no apparent issues. Across a
Rocket link, the clients behind it (some UBNT, FSK and 450) would see a
burst of 10-12Mbps and then it would dwindle to 3-5Mbps. We swapped the
Rockets for a set of ePMP. Throughput got much better with the link in
ePTP (2.5ms) mode. So my first thought was that the Rocket link just
sucked, and it did, but we were still getting some speed complaints and
not even at peak utilization. Something else was going on.

And then Nate posted about very similar issues. He had a client on a 450
and an ePMP. Throughput on the 450 was fine, ePMP not so much. And
really only when he had the traffic going across his Trango link. That's
when Gino mentioned the ApexPlus ethernet packet buffer issue. The
shorter frame duration would allow the Trango buffer to empty a little
faster, hiding the problem just a little bit. Ultimately, Trango needed
to get their buffer issue sorted out, and they did.

I wrote all that to ask this... what's farther upstream from this site?

On 3/6/2016 10:26 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:
Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.  We 
are seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them). 
Signals are great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the 
AP we are consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known 
speedtest server.  If we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, 
which gave us the poor throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. 
Issue only happens when going through the wireless.   Here is what I know:



1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on 
the link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was 
on.  Same great results.


2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1, 
2.5.1, and 2.4.3.


3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.

4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.  Wireless 
stinks.



The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If I 
plug into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The only 
thing that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I refuse to 
think 6 cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for that 
are Powerball winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to 
the 2011 are poor.  4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all 
over the place.  Acts like negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 
meg full, only accepted 100 meg on auto.


Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with 10 
meg packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did work.


Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 
2.4.x SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine 
up to the point it gets handed off to the ePMP.


Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?

Justin

Re: [AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[George Skorup]

What about sync/GPS? And are you on 2.5 or 5ms framing?

Nate @ Blast and I had a similar issue. We had 450 + Ubiquiti + Trango 
ApexPlus. Throughput was fine on the PMP450. Directly attaching to the 
switch/router at the Trango link showed no apparent issues. Across a 
Rocket link, the clients behind it (some UBNT, FSK and 450) would see a 
burst of 10-12Mbps and then it would dwindle to 3-5Mbps. We swapped the 
Rockets for a set of ePMP. Throughput got much better with the link in 
ePTP (2.5ms) mode. So my first thought was that the Rocket link just 
sucked, and it did, but we were still getting some speed complaints and 
not even at peak utilization. Something else was going on.


And then Nate posted about very similar issues. He had a client on a 450 
and an ePMP. Throughput on the 450 was fine, ePMP not so much. And 
really only when he had the traffic going across his Trango link. That's 
when Gino mentioned the ApexPlus ethernet packet buffer issue. The 
shorter frame duration would allow the Trango buffer to empty a little 
faster, hiding the problem just a little bit. Ultimately, Trango needed 
to get their buffer issue sorted out, and they did.


I wrote all that to ask this... what's farther upstream from this site?

On 3/6/2016 10:26 AM, Justin Wilson wrote:

Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.  We are 
seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them). Signals are 
great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the AP we are 
consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known speedtest server.  If 
we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which gave us the poor 
throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens when going 
through the wireless.   Here is what I know:


1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on the 
link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was on.  Same 
great results.

2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1, 2.5.1, 
and 2.4.3.

3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.

4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.  Wireless stinks.


The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If I plug 
into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The only thing 
that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I refuse to think 6 
cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for that are Powerball 
winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to the 2011 are poor.  
4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over the place.  Acts like 
negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg full, only accepted 100 meg 
on auto.

Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with 10 meg 
packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did work.

Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 2.4.x 
SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine up to the 
point it gets handed off to the ePMP.

Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?

Justin

[AFMUG] Poor throughput on ePMP AP

[Justin Wilson]

Sp I have an issue. Tower is a 4 sector ePMP setup and two backhauls.  We are 
seeing poor throughput when connected to the APs (all of them). Signals are 
great. Quality and capacity are great.  When going through the AP we are 
consistently seeing 4-5 megs of download out to a known speedtest server.  If 
we plug into the same wired port on which the AP, which gave us the poor 
throughput, we can max out the 100 meg uplink. Issue only happens when going 
through the wireless.   Here is what I know:


1.APs are set to 75/25.  SM can do a link test and get 50meg x 12meg on the 
link test.  So RF is good.  Isolated AP to where only one client was on.  Same 
great results.

2.Firmware does not seem to be a factor.  Can reproduce this on 2.6.1, 2.5.1, 
and 2.4.3.

3.Have replaced POE injectors 3 times with different manufactures.

4.Does not matter if it is DHCP or PPPoE. Hard wired is fine.  Wireless stinks.


The AP is plugged into a POE which then plugs into a Mikrotik 2011.  If I plug 
into the same exact port the aps plug into speeds are great. The only thing 
that is left is patch cable to POE, Cable to AP, or AP.  I refuse to think 6 
cables on the tower do the exact same thing.  The odds for that are Powerball 
winning crazy. Speediest from a laptop hooked to an SM to the 2011 are poor.  
4-5 megs consistent with spikes up to 10-13, but all over the place.  Acts like 
negotiation.  Have set Mikrotik to Auto, to 100 meg full, only accepted 100 meg 
on auto.

Customers who have 5 meg packages or below don’t see this.  Those with 10 meg 
packages are the ones seeing 4-5 meg speeds. 10 meg packages did work.

Clients are mainly at 2.6.1, but we can reproduce this with a 2.5 and 2.4.x 
SMs. Nothign has changed in the network, which tests out just fine up to the 
point it gets handed off to the ePMP.

Anyone ran into this? Any thoughts?

Justin