Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Lewis Bergman 
I understand it isn't additional but it is likely to coat now than double
of both combined.

On Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 8:16 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> thats the point, its not additional, consolidating two things into one.
> Not a fan of regulation, but considering some of the roof repairs ive done
> coming in after a shoddy crafstman, I would hope some serious safety regs
> go into play on this stuff
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 8:06 PM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> They look great butit is going to have to compete with both regular
> shingles and electricity. Pretty tough. Maybe if California mandates it.
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:26 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> most of this tesla nonsense i ignore, green liberal puffery
> but this looks promising, as in really promising
> and if batteries can fully discharge multiple times the $/kw is way offset
>
> I envision a day when all shingles are solar cells. I hate the liberal
> green puffery on solar because of the disastrous environmental footprint it
> leaves behind, but replacing toxic asphalt with toxic electricity, thats
> something i can get behind, there is potential for a true carbon offset,
> something "renewable" has not achieved yet.
> Im no tree hugger, I think global warming is a scam, but i do now toxins
> are toxic, and the fewer there are the better.
>
> now if each of you could just donate to my gofundme a 100 to 1000 dollar
> donation, I will be happy to put this up on my house
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>
> I don't think they would be more expensive, just more finicky...   And
> matching your charge controller cycling/dwell, etc. is much more important
> for Li than just wet or dry for what we have now.   And just getting a
> Solar charge controller for Li is problematic right now, not even matching
> settings on a charge controller to some arbitrary type of Li batteries that
> you may dig out of an electric vehicle without a full set of specs or
> without being able to match the batteries to the array you decide to define.
> Charging the Li batteries I use in hobby stuff is not for the
> light hearted.   There are many rules, like not combining battery strings,
> in the Li world that don't exist in the wet world.  I can string two 12V
> deep cycles together and slap a 24V charger on them and not have to worry
> about blowing up the house.   Not true for Li...
> Maybe someone on the list has more experience with these than I
> do. Li strings have to have circuitry to prevent over discharging and too
> high a discharge rate.   You folks are pretty inventive and could come up
> with all that.   Not sure I want to take that on.   I would like a nice
> solution with solar charge controller matched to it and all in DC..
>
> On 10/29/16 3:42 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> I would argue that they may be different, and perhaps incrementally more
> expensive than lead acid to charge manage. But not double. so perhaps a
> 27,000 watt-hour charge controller for lead acid is $2000 (pure
> speculation). The charge controller for a 13,500 watt-hour LI charge
> controller might be about the same price.
>
> The power wall is probably impractical simply because of the voltage
> that it runs at. Isn't it something like 500 volts? Not very usable from
> our perspective unless you want to double convert (first to AC, then
> back to DC). It would be much nicer to build a ~~ 56 volt system from
> surplus LI batteries and move on.
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 10/29/2016 3:34 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>
> But charging Li batteries is nothing like charging lead acid and you
> need to have the right kind of charger for specific types of Li
> batteries...  That's the issue right now. Otherwise I would be buying
> Li batteries like Pez...
>
> On 10/29/2016 10:47 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> So it forwards the argument Chuck proposed; salvage battery packs from
> electric cars. DC all the way.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 10/29/2016 10:35 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>
> About 1.5 time lead acid will do.  It's something I am drooling over
> for my remote sites...   But the charging situation is the deal
> breaker...  double conversion in and out of AC...  and you have to use
> their solar If I remember right...
>
> On 10/29/2016 08:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> True.  I wonder how many cycles it will do at that DOD.
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:42 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
>
> B

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread That One Guy /sarcasm 
thats the point, its not additional, consolidating two things into one. Not
a fan of regulation, but considering some of the roof repairs ive done
coming in after a shoddy crafstman, I would hope some serious safety regs
go into play on this stuff

On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 8:06 PM, Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> They look great butit is going to have to compete with both regular
> shingles and electricity. Pretty tough. Maybe if California mandates it.
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:26 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> most of this tesla nonsense i ignore, green liberal puffery
>> but this looks promising, as in really promising
>> and if batteries can fully discharge multiple times the $/kw is way offset
>>
>> I envision a day when all shingles are solar cells. I hate the liberal
>> green puffery on solar because of the disastrous environmental footprint it
>> leaves behind, but replacing toxic asphalt with toxic electricity, thats
>> something i can get behind, there is potential for a true carbon offset,
>> something "renewable" has not achieved yet.
>> Im no tree hugger, I think global warming is a scam, but i do now toxins
>> are toxic, and the fewer there are the better.
>>
>> now if each of you could just donate to my gofundme a 100 to 1000 dollar
>> donation, I will be happy to put this up on my house
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don't think they would be more expensive, just more finicky...   And
>> matching your charge controller cycling/dwell, etc. is much more important
>> for Li than just wet or dry for what we have now.   And just getting a
>> Solar charge controller for Li is problematic right now, not even matching
>> settings on a charge controller to some arbitrary type of Li batteries that
>> you may dig out of an electric vehicle without a full set of specs or
>> without being able to match the batteries to the array you decide to define.
>> Charging the Li batteries I use in hobby stuff is not for the
>> light hearted.   There are many rules, like not combining battery strings,
>> in the Li world that don't exist in the wet world.  I can string two 12V
>> deep cycles together and slap a 24V charger on them and not have to worry
>> about blowing up the house.   Not true for Li...
>> Maybe someone on the list has more experience with these than I
>> do. Li strings have to have circuitry to prevent over discharging and too
>> high a discharge rate.   You folks are pretty inventive and could come up
>> with all that.   Not sure I want to take that on.   I would like a nice
>> solution with solar charge controller matched to it and all in DC..
>>
>> On 10/29/16 3:42 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> I would argue that they may be different, and perhaps incrementally more
>> expensive than lead acid to charge manage. But not double. so perhaps a
>> 27,000 watt-hour charge controller for lead acid is $2000 (pure
>> speculation). The charge controller for a 13,500 watt-hour LI charge
>> controller might be about the same price.
>>
>> The power wall is probably impractical simply because of the voltage
>> that it runs at. Isn't it something like 500 volts? Not very usable from
>> our perspective unless you want to double convert (first to AC, then
>> back to DC). It would be much nicer to build a ~~ 56 volt system from
>> surplus LI batteries and move on.
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>> On 10/29/2016 3:34 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>
>> But charging Li batteries is nothing like charging lead acid and you
>> need to have the right kind of charger for specific types of Li
>> batteries...  That's the issue right now. Otherwise I would be buying
>> Li batteries like Pez...
>>
>> On 10/29/2016 10:47 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> So it forwards the argument Chuck proposed; salvage battery packs from
>> electric cars. DC all the way.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>> On 10/29/2016 10:35 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>
>> About 1.5 time lead acid will do.  It's something I am drooling over
>> for my remote sites...   But the charging situation is the deal
>> breaker...  double conversion in and out of AC...  and you have to use
>> their solar If I remember right...
>>
>> On 10/29/2016 08:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>
>> True.  I wonder how many cycles it will do at that DOD.
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 29,

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Lewis Bergman 
They look great butit is going to have to compete with both regular
shingles and electricity. Pretty tough. Maybe if California mandates it.

On Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:26 PM That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> most of this tesla nonsense i ignore, green liberal puffery
> but this looks promising, as in really promising
> and if batteries can fully discharge multiple times the $/kw is way offset
>
> I envision a day when all shingles are solar cells. I hate the liberal
> green puffery on solar because of the disastrous environmental footprint it
> leaves behind, but replacing toxic asphalt with toxic electricity, thats
> something i can get behind, there is potential for a true carbon offset,
> something "renewable" has not achieved yet.
> Im no tree hugger, I think global warming is a scam, but i do now toxins
> are toxic, and the fewer there are the better.
>
> now if each of you could just donate to my gofundme a 100 to 1000 dollar
> donation, I will be happy to put this up on my house
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>
> I don't think they would be more expensive, just more finicky...   And
> matching your charge controller cycling/dwell, etc. is much more important
> for Li than just wet or dry for what we have now.   And just getting a
> Solar charge controller for Li is problematic right now, not even matching
> settings on a charge controller to some arbitrary type of Li batteries that
> you may dig out of an electric vehicle without a full set of specs or
> without being able to match the batteries to the array you decide to define.
> Charging the Li batteries I use in hobby stuff is not for the
> light hearted.   There are many rules, like not combining battery strings,
> in the Li world that don't exist in the wet world.  I can string two 12V
> deep cycles together and slap a 24V charger on them and not have to worry
> about blowing up the house.   Not true for Li...
> Maybe someone on the list has more experience with these than I
> do. Li strings have to have circuitry to prevent over discharging and too
> high a discharge rate.   You folks are pretty inventive and could come up
> with all that.   Not sure I want to take that on.   I would like a nice
> solution with solar charge controller matched to it and all in DC..
>
> On 10/29/16 3:42 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> I would argue that they may be different, and perhaps incrementally more
> expensive than lead acid to charge manage. But not double. so perhaps a
> 27,000 watt-hour charge controller for lead acid is $2000 (pure
> speculation). The charge controller for a 13,500 watt-hour LI charge
> controller might be about the same price.
>
> The power wall is probably impractical simply because of the voltage
> that it runs at. Isn't it something like 500 volts? Not very usable from
> our perspective unless you want to double convert (first to AC, then
> back to DC). It would be much nicer to build a ~~ 56 volt system from
> surplus LI batteries and move on.
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 10/29/2016 3:34 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>
> But charging Li batteries is nothing like charging lead acid and you
> need to have the right kind of charger for specific types of Li
> batteries...  That's the issue right now. Otherwise I would be buying
> Li batteries like Pez...
>
> On 10/29/2016 10:47 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> So it forwards the argument Chuck proposed; salvage battery packs from
> electric cars. DC all the way.
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 10/29/2016 10:35 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>
> About 1.5 time lead acid will do.  It's something I am drooling over
> for my remote sites...   But the charging situation is the deal
> breaker...  double conversion in and out of AC...  and you have to use
> their solar If I remember right...
>
> On 10/29/2016 08:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> True.  I wonder how many cycles it will do at that DOD.
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:42 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
>
> But did you notice that it allows 100% discharge?
>
> Doing the same thing with lead acid would require 27,000 watt hours.
> Double the cost.
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 10/29/2016 8:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> 5000 watt of inverter is worth $1250.
> (5500-1250)/13500=
> �
> 31 cents per watt hour.�
> �
> You guys have posted battery costs of half that.�
> �
> *From:* Craig Schmaderer
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 6:14 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla sola

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread That One Guy /sarcasm 
most of this tesla nonsense i ignore, green liberal puffery
but this looks promising, as in really promising
and if batteries can fully discharge multiple times the $/kw is way offset

I envision a day when all shingles are solar cells. I hate the liberal
green puffery on solar because of the disastrous environmental footprint it
leaves behind, but replacing toxic asphalt with toxic electricity, thats
something i can get behind, there is potential for a true carbon offset,
something "renewable" has not achieved yet.
Im no tree hugger, I think global warming is a scam, but i do now toxins
are toxic, and the fewer there are the better.

now if each of you could just donate to my gofundme a 100 to 1000 dollar
donation, I will be happy to put this up on my house

On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

> I don't think they would be more expensive, just more finicky...   And
> matching your charge controller cycling/dwell, etc. is much more important
> for Li than just wet or dry for what we have now.   And just getting a
> Solar charge controller for Li is problematic right now, not even matching
> settings on a charge controller to some arbitrary type of Li batteries that
> you may dig out of an electric vehicle without a full set of specs or
> without being able to match the batteries to the array you decide to define.
> Charging the Li batteries I use in hobby stuff is not for the
> light hearted.   There are many rules, like not combining battery strings,
> in the Li world that don't exist in the wet world.  I can string two 12V
> deep cycles together and slap a 24V charger on them and not have to worry
> about blowing up the house.   Not true for Li...
> Maybe someone on the list has more experience with these than I
> do. Li strings have to have circuitry to prevent over discharging and too
> high a discharge rate.   You folks are pretty inventive and could come up
> with all that.   Not sure I want to take that on.   I would like a nice
> solution with solar charge controller matched to it and all in DC..
>
> On 10/29/16 3:42 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
>> I would argue that they may be different, and perhaps incrementally more
>> expensive than lead acid to charge manage. But not double. so perhaps a
>> 27,000 watt-hour charge controller for lead acid is $2000 (pure
>> speculation). The charge controller for a 13,500 watt-hour LI charge
>> controller might be about the same price.
>>
>> The power wall is probably impractical simply because of the voltage
>> that it runs at. Isn't it something like 500 volts? Not very usable from
>> our perspective unless you want to double convert (first to AC, then
>> back to DC). It would be much nicer to build a ~~ 56 volt system from
>> surplus LI batteries and move on.
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>> On 10/29/2016 3:34 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>
>>> But charging Li batteries is nothing like charging lead acid and you
>>> need to have the right kind of charger for specific types of Li
>>> batteries...  That's the issue right now. Otherwise I would be buying
>>> Li batteries like Pez...
>>>
>>> On 10/29/2016 10:47 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>>> So it forwards the argument Chuck proposed; salvage battery packs from
>>>> electric cars. DC all the way.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/29/2016 10:35 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> About 1.5 time lead acid will do.  It's something I am drooling over
>>>>> for my remote sites...   But the charging situation is the deal
>>>>> breaker...  double conversion in and out of AC...  and you have to use
>>>>> their solar If I remember right...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/29/2016 08:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> True.  I wonder how many cycles it will do at that DOD.
>>>>>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:42 AM
>>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But did you notice that it allows 100% discharge?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doing the same thing with lead acid would require 27,000 watt hours.
>>>>>> Double the cost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bp
>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/29/2016 8:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Robert 
I don't think they would be more expensive, just more finicky...   And 
matching your charge controller cycling/dwell, etc. is much more 
important for Li than just wet or dry for what we have now.   And just 
getting a Solar charge controller for Li is problematic right now, not 
even matching settings on a charge controller to some arbitrary type of 
Li batteries that you may dig out of an electric vehicle without a full 
set of specs or without being able to match the batteries to the array 
you decide to define.
	Charging the Li batteries I use in hobby stuff is not for the light 
hearted.   There are many rules, like not combining battery strings, in 
the Li world that don't exist in the wet world.  I can string two 12V 
deep cycles together and slap a 24V charger on them and not have to 
worry about blowing up the house.   Not true for Li...  		
	Maybe someone on the list has more experience with these than I do. 
Li strings have to have circuitry to prevent over discharging and too 
high a discharge rate.   You folks are pretty inventive and could come 
up with all that.   Not sure I want to take that on.   I would like a 
nice solution with solar charge controller matched to it and all in DC..


On 10/29/16 3:42 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

I would argue that they may be different, and perhaps incrementally more
expensive than lead acid to charge manage. But not double. so perhaps a
27,000 watt-hour charge controller for lead acid is $2000 (pure
speculation). The charge controller for a 13,500 watt-hour LI charge
controller might be about the same price.

The power wall is probably impractical simply because of the voltage
that it runs at. Isn't it something like 500 volts? Not very usable from
our perspective unless you want to double convert (first to AC, then
back to DC). It would be much nicer to build a ~~ 56 volt system from
surplus LI batteries and move on.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 3:34 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:

But charging Li batteries is nothing like charging lead acid and you
need to have the right kind of charger for specific types of Li
batteries...  That's the issue right now. Otherwise I would be buying
Li batteries like Pez...

On 10/29/2016 10:47 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

So it forwards the argument Chuck proposed; salvage battery packs from
electric cars. DC all the way.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 10:35 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:

About 1.5 time lead acid will do.  It's something I am drooling over
for my remote sites...   But the charging situation is the deal
breaker...  double conversion in and out of AC...  and you have to use
their solar If I remember right...

On 10/29/2016 08:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

True.  I wonder how many cycles it will do at that DOD.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:42 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

But did you notice that it allows 100% discharge?

Doing the same thing with lead acid would require 27,000 watt hours.
Double the cost.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 8:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

5000 watt of inverter is worth $1250.
(5500-1250)/13500=
�
31 cents per watt hour.�
�
You guys have posted battery costs of half that.�
�
*From:* Craig Schmaderer
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 6:14 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
�
Chuck what do you think of the upgraded battery?� $5,500
�
�
Image

�



*From:* Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com on behalf of Craig Schmaderer
mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 8:04:11 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
�
Looks sweet.� I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.�

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
�

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Bill Prince 
I would argue that they may be different, and perhaps incrementally more 
expensive than lead acid to charge manage. But not double. so perhaps a 
27,000 watt-hour charge controller for lead acid is $2000 (pure 
speculation). The charge controller for a 13,500 watt-hour LI charge 
controller might be about the same price.


The power wall is probably impractical simply because of the voltage 
that it runs at. Isn't it something like 500 volts? Not very usable from 
our perspective unless you want to double convert (first to AC, then 
back to DC). It would be much nicer to build a ~~ 56 volt system from 
surplus LI batteries and move on.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 3:34 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
But charging Li batteries is nothing like charging lead acid and you 
need to have the right kind of charger for specific types of Li 
batteries...  That's the issue right now. Otherwise I would be buying 
Li batteries like Pez...


On 10/29/2016 10:47 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

So it forwards the argument Chuck proposed; salvage battery packs from
electric cars. DC all the way.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 10:35 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:

About 1.5 time lead acid will do.  It's something I am drooling over
for my remote sites...   But the charging situation is the deal
breaker...  double conversion in and out of AC...  and you have to use
their solar If I remember right...

On 10/29/2016 08:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

True.  I wonder how many cycles it will do at that DOD.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:42 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

But did you notice that it allows 100% discharge?

Doing the same thing with lead acid would require 27,000 watt hours.
Double the cost.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 8:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

5000 watt of inverter is worth $1250.
(5500-1250)/13500=
�
31 cents per watt hour.�
�
You guys have posted battery costs of half that.�
�
*From:* Craig Schmaderer
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 6:14 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
�
Chuck what do you think of the upgraded battery?� $5,500
�
�
Image

�
 



*From:* Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com on behalf of Craig Schmaderer
mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 8:04:11 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
�
Looks sweet.� I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.�

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
�

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Robert Andrews 
But charging Li batteries is nothing like charging lead acid and you 
need to have the right kind of charger for specific types of Li 
batteries...  That's the issue right now.   Otherwise I would be buying 
Li batteries like Pez...


On 10/29/2016 10:47 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

So it forwards the argument Chuck proposed; salvage battery packs from
electric cars. DC all the way.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 10:35 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:

About 1.5 time lead acid will do.  It's something I am drooling over
for my remote sites...   But the charging situation is the deal
breaker...  double conversion in and out of AC...  and you have to use
their solar If I remember right...

On 10/29/2016 08:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

True.  I wonder how many cycles it will do at that DOD.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:42 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

But did you notice that it allows 100% discharge?

Doing the same thing with lead acid would require 27,000 watt hours.
Double the cost.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 8:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

5000 watt of inverter is worth $1250.
(5500-1250)/13500=
�
31 cents per watt hour.�
�
You guys have posted battery costs of half that.�
�
*From:* Craig Schmaderer
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 6:14 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
�
Chuck what do you think of the upgraded battery?� $5,500
�
�
Image

�


*From:* Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com on behalf of Craig Schmaderer
mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 8:04:11 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
�
Looks sweet.� I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.�

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
�

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Bill Prince 
So it forwards the argument Chuck proposed; salvage battery packs from 
electric cars. DC all the way.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 10:35 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
About 1.5 time lead acid will do.  It's something I am drooling over 
for my remote sites...   But the charging situation is the deal 
breaker...  double conversion in and out of AC...  and you have to use 
their solar If I remember right...


On 10/29/2016 08:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

True.  I wonder how many cycles it will do at that DOD.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:42 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

But did you notice that it allows 100% discharge?

Doing the same thing with lead acid would require 27,000 watt hours.
Double the cost.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 8:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

5000 watt of inverter is worth $1250.
(5500-1250)/13500=
�
31 cents per watt hour.�
�
You guys have posted battery costs of half that.�
�
*From:* Craig Schmaderer
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 6:14 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
�
Chuck what do you think of the upgraded battery?� $5,500
�
�
Image

�
 


*From:* Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com on behalf of Craig Schmaderer
mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 8:04:11 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
�
Looks sweet.� I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.�

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
�

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Robert Andrews 
About 1.5 time lead acid will do.  It's something I am drooling over for 
my remote sites...   But the charging situation is the deal breaker... 
 double conversion in and out of AC...  and you have to use their solar 
If I remember right...


On 10/29/2016 08:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

True.  I wonder how many cycles it will do at that DOD.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:42 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

But did you notice that it allows 100% discharge?

Doing the same thing with lead acid would require 27,000 watt hours.
Double the cost.

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 8:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

5000 watt of inverter is worth $1250.
(5500-1250)/13500=
�
31 cents per watt hour.�
�
You guys have posted battery costs of half that.�
�
*From:* Craig Schmaderer
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 6:14 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
�
Chuck what do you think of the upgraded battery?� $5,500
�
�
Image

�

*From:* Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com on behalf of Craig Schmaderer
mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com
*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 8:04:11 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
�
Looks sweet.� I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.�

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
�

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Chuck McCown 
That reminds me, I guess you can get battery packs out of wrecked electric cars 
for cheap.  Saw an article in a magazine about the off gridders going that 
route.  Be great for solar comm sites.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

I read somewhere something about the number of cycles, and all I remember was 
that it could do more than lead acid. I think it was significantly more, but I 
just don't remember the details.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 8:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  True.� I wonder how many cycles it will do at that DOD.� 
  �
  From: Bill Prince 
  Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:42 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
  �
  But did you notice that it allows 100% discharge? 


  Doing the same thing with lead acid would require 27,000 watt hours. Double 
the cost.

  �

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 8:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

5000 watt of inverter is worth $1250.
(5500-1250)/13500=
�
31 cents per watt hour.� 
�
You guys have posted battery costs of half that.� 
�
From: Craig Schmaderer 
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 6:14 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
�
Chuck what do you think of the upgraded battery?� $5,500
�
�



�



From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com on behalf of Craig Schmaderer 
mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:04:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
    Subject: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof 
�
Looks sweet.� I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.� 


Get Outlook for iOS
�

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Bill Prince 
I read somewhere something about the number of cycles, and all I 
remember was that it could do more than lead acid. I think it was 
significantly more, but I just don't remember the details.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 8:44 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

True.  I wonder how many cycles it will do at that DOD.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:42 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

But did you notice that it allows 100% discharge?

Doing the same thing with lead acid would require 27,000 watt hours. 
Double the cost.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 8:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

5000 watt of inverter is worth $1250.
(5500-1250)/13500=
�
31 cents per watt hour.�
�
You guys have posted battery costs of half that.�
�
*From:* Craig Schmaderer
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 6:14 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
�
Chuck what do you think of the upgraded battery?� $5,500
�
�
Image

�

*From:* Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com on behalf of Craig Schmaderer 
mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com

*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 8:04:11 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
�
Looks sweet.� I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.�

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
�

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Chuck McCown 
True.  I wonder how many cycles it will do at that DOD.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 9:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

But did you notice that it allows 100% discharge? 


Doing the same thing with lead acid would require 27,000 watt hours. Double the 
cost.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 8:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  5000 watt of inverter is worth $1250.
  (5500-1250)/13500=
  �
  31 cents per watt hour.� 
  �
  You guys have posted battery costs of half that.� 
  �
  From: Craig Schmaderer 
  Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 6:14 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
  �
  Chuck what do you think of the upgraded battery?� $5,500
  �
  �



  �

--

  From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com on behalf of Craig Schmaderer 
mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com
  Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:04:11 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof 
  �
  Looks sweet.� I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.� 


  Get Outlook for iOS
  �

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Bill Prince 

But did you notice that it allows 100% discharge?

Doing the same thing with lead acid would require 27,000 watt hours. 
Double the cost.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/29/2016 8:34 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:

5000 watt of inverter is worth $1250.
(5500-1250)/13500=
31 cents per watt hour.
You guys have posted battery costs of half that.
*From:* Craig Schmaderer
*Sent:* Saturday, October 29, 2016 6:14 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
Chuck what do you think of the upgraded battery? $5,500
Image


*From:* Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Craig Schmaderer 
<cr...@skywaveconnect.com>

*Sent:* Friday, October 28, 2016 8:04:11 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof
Looks sweet.  I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Chuck McCown 
5000 watt of inverter is worth $1250.
(5500-1250)/13500=

31 cents per watt hour.  

You guys have posted battery costs of half that.  

From: Craig Schmaderer 
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2016 6:14 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

Chuck what do you think of the upgraded battery?  $5,500









From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Craig Schmaderer 
<cr...@skywaveconnect.com>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:04:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof 

Looks sweet.  I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.  


Get Outlook for iOS

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Seth Mattinen 

On 10/28/16 6:04 PM, Craig Schmaderer wrote:

Looks sweet.  I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.



I wonder how they'll handle all the roof penetrations you normally find 
on a house.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-29 Thread Craig Schmaderer 
Chuck what do you think of the upgraded battery?  $5,500


[Image]



From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Craig Schmaderer 
<cr...@skywaveconnect.com>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:04:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

Looks sweet.  I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

[AFMUG] Tesla solar roof

2016-10-28 Thread Craig Schmaderer 
Looks sweet.  I hope it doesn't cost more than the house.

Get Outlook for iOS