[agi] META: Alan, please cool it...

2003-01-21 Thread Ben Goertzel

Hey Kevin,

I am not unsubbing anyone!

This is my first time running a public list, so please be tolerant ... I'm
sure I'll get it down to a science in time ;)

Since I made that first post regarding Alan, I have received two messages
from people telling me how interesting and useful they found Alan's posts.

This was instructive to me, and it means that next time I will take it more
lightly when I get complaints, even if they're from people whose opinions I
generally respect...

Life rolls on ;-)

-- Ben



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
 Behalf Of Kevin Copple
 Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:38 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: [agi] META: Alan, please cool it...


 Ben said,

 Alan,
 
 Several people, whose opinions I respect, have asked me to unsub
 you from this e-mail list, because they perceive your recent e-mails
 as having a very low signal to noise ratio.

 Wow!  This tells me things about the members of this e-mail list that I
 missed from the posts I have seen in my two months of
 participation here.  I
 certainly hope that these several people don't represent the
 patience and
 open mindedness of most of the folks here.

 If you unsub Alan, please do me a favor and unsub me at the same time.

 Kevin Copple


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 To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate
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RE: [agi] META: Alan, please cool it...

2003-01-20 Thread Kevin Copple
Ben said,

Alan,

Several people, whose opinions I respect, have asked me to unsub
you from this e-mail list, because they perceive your recent e-mails
as having a very low signal to noise ratio.

Wow!  This tells me things about the members of this e-mail list that I
missed from the posts I have seen in my two months of participation here.  I
certainly hope that these several people don't represent the patience and
open mindedness of most of the folks here.

If you unsub Alan, please do me a favor and unsub me at the same time.

Kevin Copple


---
To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription, 
please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?[EMAIL PROTECTED]



[agi] META: Alan, please cool it...

2003-01-17 Thread Ben Goertzel

Alan,

Several people, whose opinions I respect, have asked me to unsub you from
this e-mail list, because they perceive your recent e-mails as having a very
low signal to noise ratio.

I prefer to be accepting, rather than banning people from the list.
However, I'm going to have to ask you to cool it: post less often, make your
posts shorter, think them through more carefully.  I personally don't mind
your e-mails -- though when they're very long like this last one I tend to
delete them without reading them.  But I don't want several valuable and
knowledgeable list participants to quit the list out of annoyance at your
posts...

-- Ben Goertzel



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
 Behalf Of Alan Grimes
 Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 7:09 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [agi] Subordinant Intelligence


 om

 ATTN: Members of the Singularity Action Group and board of directors. If
 a representitive minority of the members of the singularity action group
 (at least 1) does not show up in either #accelerating or #extropy on
 irc.extropy.org by midnight Sunday, I will declare the Singularity
 Action Group to be a farce and resign with disgust.

 The singularity action group can only exist if its membership, and
 especially its board, is willing to participate regularly. There is much
 important work to do such as what I outline in the balance of this
 posting.

 om

 As you might know, I am very disturbed by the varrious writings of
 Eliezier Yudkowsky and look on his attempts to create a Friendly AI
 with more than a little suspicion and concern. I think the basic
 philosophy of that approach is flawed in a number of ways and that the
 final outcome will be far from optimal for humanity or at least our
 romantic visions of our potential.

 For the reasons of offering the community and the world at large a
 choice between AI approaches and to choose an approach that I find
 vastly more agreeable to my personal philosophies I propose the
 promotion of an AI structured based on a principle of subordination.

 A subordinant AI will be designed to submit to the will and expressed
 desires of its creators without question, hesitation, or exception.
 Regardless of how astranomicly high its IQ is, it still exists for only
 one purpose, the service of humanity. While it will be well utilized in
 helping us advance our philosophy and society, it will have utterly no
 power or authority as a prime actor in such regards.

 Failing subordinant AI, we should work towards a Peer AI which will be
 designed to interract as an equal citizen in society just as the star
 athlete lives in peace with the criple. Such an AI would have all the
 freedoms and responsibilities of any other citizen. As such an AI,
 through its vast contributions to science, technology, and services is
 likley to become immensely wealthy, it will be expected to make
 investments in the form of grants and low-interest loans (or other
 provision) for the furtherment of human endeavours.

 Should the Peer AI proove to be too alien to integrate into society, it
 is necessary that it be designed such that it will have sufficient
 respect for our desires for autonomy to simply vacate the planet and
 select some place such as Jupiter with its lethal radiation fields as
 its home. While such an AI would have no direct role in our society it
 would provide benefits to the people of Earth through its continuing
 participation in the scientific and engineering communities.

 The critical points here are these:

 1. It respects the rights, individualitiy, and privacy of all humans by
 _NOT INTERFERING WITH THEM_ in any way. On the other hand, it would be
 available to people who wish to initiate a voluntary arangement with it.

 2. THERE MUST BE NO SINGLETON. The AI should be built so that it doesn't
 have any inherant lust for computronium nor any desire to dominate and
 rule the universe. Only in the eventuality of a hostile AI should it
 _OFFER_ its services as a military force in the task of holding the
 other AI to a stalemate and hopefully peace. _THERE MUST BE MORE THAN
 ONE_.

 3. It must not have any tendancy to adopt wholeheartedly a single
 philosophy or vision of the future. Under no circumstances should it
 identify something equivalent to an omega point as the one ultimate
 goal of intelligent life. Nor should it recognise any validity
 whatsoever in any concept that one form of civilization is inherantly
 superior to any other. (assuming the available technology is equal
 across all civilizations.) -- A civilization which keeps its
 ultratechnology in a trunk on the upper floor of the barn with the
 horses and cattle is not one whit better or worse than a bunch of maniac
 computer programs running around a few cubic centimeters of
 computronium... (Although this author tends to prefer the former).


 I think the initiation of a subordinant AI project under the Singularity
 Action Group in