Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] More than one way to skin a win

[VJ Rada]

If all of the following are legal to vote I vote {Jeff Probst
(survivor host), My mother, My father, Murphy's daughter Victoria from
CFJ 2823, the current Prime Minister of Australia, Former Prime
Minister Kevin Rudd, Bernie Sanders, o., G, ais523}

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Quazie  wrote:
> I vote [Quazie, ais523, Peter Suber, Steve Jobs]
>
> I change my vote to (if valid to do so): [Agora, cats, comex, omd, a Live
> Walrus, Quazie, ais523, Peter Suber, Steve Jobs]
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 5:18 PM Cuddle Beam  wrote:
>>
>> I dislike having wins being granted by election like this, because it
>> feels too easy. I vote present.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 2:05 AM, Aris Merchant
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> I vote [G., o]
>>>
>>> -Aris
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 5:04 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>>> > I vote {o, G, ais523 if e is a candidate}
>>> >
>>> > Note that I have no voting strength.
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 10:01 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>>> >> I vote {G, o, ais523 if e is a candidate, myself}
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Owen Jacobson 
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> ==THEREFORE, BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED
>>> 
>>>   As Herald, I initiate a VICTORY ELECTION, a type of Agoran
>>>  Decision.
>>>   All players are valid options, as is PRESENT; non-player
>>>  persons
>>>   can also become valid options during the voting period by
>>>   announcement. The vote collector is the Herald, and the voting
>>>   method is instant runoff.
>>> 
>>>    ===
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I vote [G., nichdel, ais523].
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -o
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> From V.J. Rada
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > From V.J. Rada
>>
>>
>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada

BUS: Attempt to resolve ambiguity

[Alex Smith]

(Not everyone is receiving my messages sent via this emergency backup method. 
Could someone quote this email in a message of their own so that everyone can 
see it?)

I become an option in the current Victory Election.

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] More than one way to skin a win

[Quazie]

I vote [Quazie, ais523, Peter Suber, Steve Jobs]

I change my vote to (if valid to do so): [Agora, cats, comex, omd, a Live
Walrus, Quazie, ais523, Peter Suber, Steve Jobs]

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 5:18 PM Cuddle Beam  wrote:

> I dislike having wins being granted by election like this, because it
> feels too easy. I vote present.
>
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 2:05 AM, Aris Merchant <
> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I vote [G., o]
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 5:04 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>> > I vote {o, G, ais523 if e is a candidate}
>> >
>> > Note that I have no voting strength.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 10:01 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>> >> I vote {G, o, ais523 if e is a candidate, myself}
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Owen Jacobson 
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> ==THEREFORE, BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED
>> 
>>   As Herald, I initiate a VICTORY ELECTION, a type of Agoran
>> Decision.
>>   All players are valid options, as is PRESENT; non-player persons
>>   can also become valid options during the voting period by
>>   announcement. The vote collector is the Herald, and the voting
>>   method is instant runoff.
>> 
>>    ===
>> >>>
>> >>> I vote [G., nichdel, ais523].
>> >>>
>> >>> -o
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> From V.J. Rada
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > From V.J. Rada
>>
>
>

Re: BUS: [Proposal] Make Your Home Shine

[Quazie]

You can't revoke pledges
On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 18:44 Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> I intend to revoke the below pledge with 4 days notice.  It was made while
> I was a non-player and CFJs were free for me.
>
> (if I do this, the proposal will now make me party to an agreement without
> consent,
> but now that it's pointed out that I can be forced to pay for others'
> cfjs, I don't
> want to leave it around long enough to revoke it after the proposal passes)
>
> On Thu, 14 Sep 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> > Create a pledge owned by G., whose terms are
> >
> > {
> >  This pledge is known as The Prosecutor's Office
> >
> >  1.  I CAN revoke or alter this pledge by giving 4 Days Notice.
> >
> >  2.  If a CFJ is submitted to The Prosecutor's Office (private or
> >  public to me, but not in Discussion), I shall follow the
> >  following formal process to resolve the matter of
> >  controversy:
> >
> >  a.  I shall enter it into the bottom of the Judicial Queue.
> >
> >  b.  At most once per day, and and most 5 times per week,
> I'll
> >  initiate an Agoran Call for Judgement on the CFJ on the
> >  top of the Judicial Queue (also barring judges as
> >  requested by the submitter).
> >
> >  c.  By request, the submitter may remain anonymous.
> >
> >  d.  Absolutely free of charge, as able, I'll research and
> >  add gratuitous arguments in favor of the submitter's
> >  position, and I'll not argue against the submitter's
> >  position except in private with the submitter.
> >
> > -G.
> > }
>
>
>

Re: BUS: [Proposal] Make Your Home Shine

[Kerim Aydin]

I intend to revoke the below pledge with 4 days notice.  It was made while
I was a non-player and CFJs were free for me.

(if I do this, the proposal will now make me party to an agreement without 
consent,
but now that it's pointed out that I can be forced to pay for others' cfjs, I 
don't
want to leave it around long enough to revoke it after the proposal passes)

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> Create a pledge owned by G., whose terms are
> 
> {
>  This pledge is known as The Prosecutor's Office
> 
>  1.  I CAN revoke or alter this pledge by giving 4 Days Notice.
> 
>  2.  If a CFJ is submitted to The Prosecutor's Office (private or
>  public to me, but not in Discussion), I shall follow the
>  following formal process to resolve the matter of
>  controversy:
> 
>  a.  I shall enter it into the bottom of the Judicial Queue.
> 
>  b.  At most once per day, and and most 5 times per week, I'll
>  initiate an Agoran Call for Judgement on the CFJ on the
>  top of the Judicial Queue (also barring judges as
>  requested by the submitter).
> 
>  c.  By request, the submitter may remain anonymous.
> 
>  d.  Absolutely free of charge, as able, I'll research and
>  add gratuitous arguments in favor of the submitter's
>  position, and I'll not argue against the submitter's
>  position except in private with the submitter.
> 
> -G.
> }

Re: BUS: [Proposal] Make Your Home Shine

[Owen Jacobson]

Ugh, I missed a pledge, and I’m not sure that retroactive creation would work. 
I withdraw the proposal “Make Your Home Shine” and submit the following 
proposal in its place:

Title: Make Your Home Shine
Author: o
Co-authors: CuddleBeam, Ørjan
AI: 1.7

{{{
Amend rule 2450 ("Pledges") to read, in full:

{
Pledges are an indestructible fixed asset. Ownership of pledges
is restricted to persons. The Referee is the recordkeepor of
pledges. Creating, destroying, modifying, and transferring
pledges are secured.

To "pledge" something is to create a pledge with those terms. A
person CAN pledge by announcement.

To "retract" (syn "withdraw") a pledge is to destroy it. A
person CAN retract a pledge they own without objection.

To "call in" a pledge" is to destroy it. A player can call in
any pledge with Agoran Consent, if e announces a reason the
Terms of the pledge should be considered broken. Support for an
intent to call in a pledge is INEFFECTIVE unless the supporting
player explicitly confirms the reasons that the pledge should
be considered broken.

It is ILLEGAL to own a pledge when it is called in.
}

Destroy every pledge.

Create a pledge owned by Quazie, whose terms are

{
I pledge to give 1 Shiny to the first person who can,
correctly, with e-mail citations, explain what I did wrong on
Jan 20th 2009 that has since led to me being a fugitive. For
the explanation to be valid for this pledge, it should be fully
self contained, I should not have to go look up past rules in
order to understand the explanation (So please, include all
source info in the explanation).
}

Create a pledge owned by G., whose terms are

{
 This pledge is known as The Prosecutor's Office

 1.  I CAN revoke or alter this pledge by giving 4 Days Notice.

 2.  If a CFJ is submitted to The Prosecutor's Office (private or
 public to me, but not in Discussion), I shall follow the
 following formal process to resolve the matter of
 controversy:

 a.  I shall enter it into the bottom of the Judicial Queue.

 b.  At most once per day, and and most 5 times per week, I'll
 initiate an Agoran Call for Judgement on the CFJ on the
 top of the Judicial Queue (also barring judges as
 requested by the submitter).

 c.  By request, the submitter may remain anonymous.

 d.  Absolutely free of charge, as able, I'll research and
 add gratuitous arguments in favor of the submitter's
 position, and I'll not argue against the submitter's
 position except in private with the submitter.

-G.
}

Create a pledge owned by V.J Rada, whose terms are

{
However I now pledge to include more recapping of agoran events
in future newspapers.
}

Create a pledge owned by o, whose terms are

{
I pledge that, for the next month, if I have not yet paid a
total of 30 shinies under this pledge, and a player pledges to
pay me 6 Shinies within a month, I will pay em 5 Shinies in a
timely fashion.
}

Ratify the following statement:

{
The only pledge owned by o was created on Aug 23, 2017.
}

Create a pledge owned by Gaelan, whose terms are

{
I pledge to, for at least the next month, vote AGAINST any
proposal that amends rules by providing new text in full unless
the text of the rule is nearly entirely changed.
}

Ratify the following statement:

{
The only pledge owned by Gaelan was created on Sep 14, 2017.
}
}}}

There are other pledges in play, but in my view they are either already
discharged, or irrelevant, and it would not be in the game's interest
to carry them forwards.

-o


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BUS: [Proposal] Make Your Home Shine

[Owen Jacobson]

I submit the following proposal.

-o

Title: Make Your Home Shine
Author: o
Co-authors: CuddleBeam, Ørjan
AI: 1.7

{{{
Amend rule 2450 ("Pledges") to read, in full:

{
Pledges are an indestructible fixed asset. Ownership of pledges
is restricted to persons. The Referee is the recordkeepor of
pledges. Creating, destroying, modifying, and transferring
pledges are secured.

To "pledge" something is to create a pledge with those terms. A
person CAN pledge by announcement.

To "retract" (syn "withdraw") a pledge is to destroy it. A
person CAN retract a pledge they own without objection.

To "call in" a pledge" is to destroy it. A player can call in
any pledge with Agoran Consent, if e announces a reason the
Terms of the pledge should be considered broken. Support for an
intent to call in a pledge is INEFFECTIVE unless the supporting
player explicitly confirms the reasons that the pledge should
be considered broken.

It is ILLEGAL to own a pledge when it is called in.
}

Destroy every pledge.

Create a pledge owned by Quazie, whose terms are

{
I pledge to give 1 Shiny to the first person who can,
correctly, with e-mail citations, explain what I did wrong on
Jan 20th 2009 that has since led to me being a fugitive. For
the explanation to be valid for this pledge, it should be fully
self contained, I should not have to go look up past rules in
order to understand the explanation (So please, include all
source info in the explanation).
}

Create a pledge owned by G., whose terms are

{
 This pledge is known as The Prosecutor's Office

 1.  I CAN revoke or alter this pledge by giving 4 Days Notice.

 2.  If a CFJ is submitted to The Prosecutor's Office (private or
 public to me, but not in Discussion), I shall follow the
 following formal process to resolve the matter of
 controversy:

 a.  I shall enter it into the bottom of the Judicial Queue.

 b.  At most once per day, and and most 5 times per week, I'll
 initiate an Agoran Call for Judgement on the CFJ on the
 top of the Judicial Queue (also barring judges as
 requested by the submitter).

 c.  By request, the submitter may remain anonymous.

 d.  Absolutely free of charge, as able, I'll research and
 add gratuitous arguments in favor of the submitter's
 position, and I'll not argue against the submitter's
 position except in private with the submitter.

-G.
}

Create a pledge owned by V.J Rada, whose terms are

{
However I now pledge to include more recapping of agoran events
in future newspapers.
}

Create a pledge owned by o, which was created on Aug 23, 2017, whose
terms are

{
I pledge that, for the next month, if I have not yet paid a
total of 30 shinies under this pledge, and a player pledges to
pay me 6 Shinies within a month, I will pay em 5 Shinies in a
timely fashion.
}
}}}

There are other pledges in play, but in my view they are either already
discharged, or irrelevant, and it would not be in the game's interest
to carry them forwards.

-o



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Re: BUS: 200 word apology

[Nic Evans]

I've personally enjoyed most of your contributions and find any faux pas
you've made completely acceptable, both because of their rareness and
because of your immediate ameliorative steps.


On 09/14/17 19:12, VJ Rada wrote:
> Firstly I'm sorry for continually failing to use 'e' 'em' etc, it's
> inexcusable at this point.
>
> I'm sorry for trying to take control of Quazie without notifying em or
> anyone and certainly without asking. I kind of thought the lesson of
> CB was that scams are OK as long as they work but there are certainly
> dickish scams that do work. And I messed it up anyway, luckily for
> Quazie. I'm sorry for not treating that with any gravity at any point.
> I'm sorry for not titling that properly, that was bad too.
>
> I'm sorry for taking the ADoP position instead of giving it to o,
> given nobody actually voted for me except the one vote I bought and
> I'm sure e would have done a better job. I'm sorry for my inadequate
> reports.
>
> Also, I probably shouldn't have bought the election for PM given that
> lots of people voted against me, nobody voted directly for me without
> it being bought, and I only won because of making Quazie apologise for
> doing nothing wrong. I apologise for doing that too.
>
> I'm sorry for not reading the rules anywhere near as closely as
> others. I don't do actions or make interpretations that I don't
> believe but I don't put the work in that I should put in, and that
> others do.
>
> I'm sorry for insta-pending recent proposals that seem to be
> meritless, making more work for Aris.
>
> I'm sorry for sending way too many messages. Like, I feel like I've
> been a huge spammer recently, whether or not that's true. I've been
> known for spamming internet forums as well.
>
> I'm sorry for the CFJ I failed at judging.
>
> I'm sorry for the fact I can't even be bothered to use capitals some
> or most of the time.
>
> I'm sorry for the fact that I'm so desperate for voting strength I
> wrote this out in like 10 minutes instead of thinking about it.
>




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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Metareport

[Owen Jacobson]

Upheld. I issue V.J Rada a Green Card by summary judgement for violating rule 
2496 (“Rewards”).

-o

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 8:15 PM, Cuddle Beam  wrote:
> 
> I point a finger at VJ Rada and recommend Green Card.
> 
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 1:56 AM, VJ Rada  > wrote:
> ugh too late. I guess issue me a card, although I can't point a finger.
> 
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Owen Jacobson  > wrote:
> >
> >> On Sep 13, 2017, at 7:53 PM, VJ Rada  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I claim the reward for this.
> >
> > From recently-enacted proposal 7845:
> >
> >> Amend R2496 "Rewards" by, at the end of the first paragraph, adding:
> >>
> >>  When a player claims a reward, e SHALL list the number of shinies e
> >>  receives, or it is INEFFECTIVE.
> >
> > -o
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> >From V.J. Rada
> 



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BUS: [CFJ] Contract proposal phrasing

[Aris Merchant]

I AP-CFJ on the following:

The statement "Lines beginning with hashmarks ('#') and comments in
square brackets ('[]') have no effect on the behavior of this
proposal. They are not part of any rules
created or amended herein, and may be considered for all game purposes to
have been removed before its resolution.", as it appears near the
beginning of the contracts proposal I sent to agora-discussion, has
the clearly intended effect.

Arguments:

The last paragraph of Rule 106 implies that this works. Also,
proposals are interpreted as human readable text, so it makes sense
that portions could be commented out.

-Aris

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] More than one way to skin a win

[Kerim Aydin]

Sure why not. For each person not currently registered, I make em a valid 
option in this election.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017, Aris Merchant wrote:
> Would this work?: "For each person not currently registered, I make em
> a valid option in this election."
> 
> -Aris
> 
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 5:19 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'm pretty sure voting for a non-player is sufficient to announce em, but 
> > just
> > in case:  I make ais523 a valid option in this election (I'll do this for 
> > any
> > non-player votes I notice - don't promise to notice them all esp. as one has
> > to do so during the voting period!)
> >
> >> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>==THEREFORE, BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED
> >> >>
> >> >>  As Herald, I initiate a VICTORY ELECTION, a type of Agoran 
> >> >> Decision.
> >> >>  All players are valid options, as is PRESENT; non-player persons
> >> >>  can also become valid options during the voting period by
> >> >>  announcement. The vote collector is the Herald, and the voting
> >> >>  method is instant runoff.
> >> >>
> >> >>   ===
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] More than one way to skin a win

[Kerim Aydin]

I'm pretty sure voting for a non-player is sufficient to announce em, but just
in case:  I make ais523 a valid option in this election (I'll do this for any
non-player votes I notice - don't promise to notice them all esp. as one has
to do so during the voting period!)

> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> >
> >>==THEREFORE, BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED
> >>
> >>  As Herald, I initiate a VICTORY ELECTION, a type of Agoran Decision.
> >>  All players are valid options, as is PRESENT; non-player persons
> >>  can also become valid options during the voting period by
> >>  announcement. The vote collector is the Herald, and the voting
> >>  method is instant runoff.
> >>
> >>   ===

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] More than one way to skin a win

[Cuddle Beam]

I dislike having wins being granted by election like this, because it feels
too easy. I vote present.

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 2:05 AM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I vote [G., o]
>
> -Aris
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 5:04 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> > I vote {o, G, ais523 if e is a candidate}
> >
> > Note that I have no voting strength.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 10:01 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> >> I vote {G, o, ais523 if e is a candidate, myself}
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Owen Jacobson 
> wrote:
> >>>
> ==THEREFORE, BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED
> 
>   As Herald, I initiate a VICTORY ELECTION, a type of Agoran
> Decision.
>   All players are valid options, as is PRESENT; non-player persons
>   can also become valid options during the voting period by
>   announcement. The vote collector is the Herald, and the voting
>   method is instant runoff.
> 
>    ===
> >>>
> >>> I vote [G., nichdel, ais523].
> >>>
> >>> -o
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> From V.J. Rada
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > From V.J. Rada
>

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Metareport

[Cuddle Beam]

I point a finger at VJ Rada and recommend Green Card.

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 1:56 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:

> ugh too late. I guess issue me a card, although I can't point a finger.
>
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> >
> >> On Sep 13, 2017, at 7:53 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> >>
> >> I claim the reward for this.
> >
> > From recently-enacted proposal 7845:
> >
> >> Amend R2496 "Rewards" by, at the end of the first paragraph, adding:
> >>
> >>  When a player claims a reward, e SHALL list the number of shinies e
> >>  receives, or it is INEFFECTIVE.
> >
> > -o
> >
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada
>

BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3529 assigned to G.

[Kerim Aydin]

I judge 3529 as follows:

I'm taking it as self-evident that the verb "to register" and "to deregister"
are generally synonymous with "flipping the Citizenship switch to the 
indicated value (Registered or Unregistered)."  This is implicit from context
in R869, but not explicitly defined (there are alternate interpretations, but
they don't hold up under scrutiny; I can add an aside if challenged).

So the question is, does the verb "to register" in Rule 869 mean "flipping the
Citizenship switch from Unregistered to Registered", or does it include
"setting the Citizenship switch to Registered, even if it's already set
to Registered"?

Or in general, if you purport to flip a switch to X by announcement, and it's
already in X, have you "flipped the switch" for legal purposes (assuming you
CAN switch it to X if it was not X, of course).

Rule 2162/2 reads:  "To flip an instance of a switch" is to make it come to 
have a given value. "To become X" (where X is a possible value of exactly one 
of the subject's switches) is to flip that switch to X."

Rule 2162 is explicit, and if a person tries to flip a switch to X, when it
was already at X, that person can't be said to have "made the switch to come
to have that value."  You can't become something you already are.  This is
consistent with common usage:  if I touch a light switch that's already on,
and someone asks "did you turn on that light?", the correct answer would be no.

For other practical game effects, if you tried to pay a fee to flip a Proposal
to pending, and it was already pending, you'd probably not want to lose the
money, and the general consensus is that the whole transaction fails (note,
this has not been fully adjudicated, this is a consensus from discussion).

For registration in particular, since registration is only implicitly
defined, we can look at the common definition:  "to enter or cause to be
entered formally in a register." or "to enroll (a student, voter, etc.) in
a school or course of study, on the voting rolls, etc."  Since we subscribe
to the "one person = one player" (i.e. no avatars) theory, if you tried to
register twice, it would be pointed out that your name is already in the
registrar's report as enrolled, and you would have done nothing.

There is one issue with the "you must change a switch to have flipped it"
interpretation.  There are instances in the Rules that an Officer is required
to flip a switch to a certain value.  If the switch already has that value,
and "flipping it to the same value" doesn't count as flipping it, then the
Officer CANNOT perform eir duty.  In fact, if the switch later comes to have
a different value, someone could deputize for the old duty to set it back.
This is an unfortunate consequence.

However, a look at the rules says this is a minor problem (compared e.g. to
forcing people to lose currency for no-op transactions), and easily fixed
with a specific text addition to the rules such as "if a person is REQUIRED
to flip a switch to a certain value, and it is already at that value, then
attempting to flip it to that value, or announcing that is it at that value,
fulfills the duty."  There are no switches so urgent that things will break
in the mean time.

So in balance, the "no change" = "no flip" is textually correct, and also,
on balance, in the better interests of the game.

So, to sum up.  R869 says "A person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or
prevented by the rules) register".   If a person is already registered, the
Switches rule generally prevents em from doing so again.

For this CFJ, the recent attempt of omd to register failed, and eir
registration date is the 3rd of February, 2011.  I find TRUE.


On Thu, 14 Sep 2017, Kerim Aydin wrote: 
> I recuse Sprocklem from CFJ 3529.
> 
> I assign G. to be the judge of CFJ 3529, statement, arguments and evidence
> below.
> 
> [For clarity:  After the above ID number was assigned to Sprocklem's Case, 
> the ID number was "re-used" for a case judged by Quazie.  Quazie's case
> is closed (e quoted the full statement when e judged it, so there's no
> confusion on which Statement e judged).  When I've gone through the records
> more, I'll assign a new ID number to Quazie's case by announcement].
> 
> 
> STATEMENT of CFJ 3529
> 
> omd "most recently became a player" on the 3rd of February, 2011. 
> 
> This is CFJ 3529. I assign it to Sprocklem.
> 
> (Also relevant, the gratuitous arguments by grok to agora-discussion:
> )
> 
> > Caller’s evidence:
> > 
> > Rule 869/39 (Power=3)
> > How to Join and Leave Agora
> > 
> >   Any organism that is generally capable of freely originating and
> >   communicating independent thoughts and ideas is a person.  Rules
> >   to the contrary notwithstanding, no other entities are persons.
> > 
> >   Citizenship is a person switch with values Unregistered
> >   (default) and Registered, tracked by the Registrar.  Changes 

BUS: 200 word apology

[VJ Rada]

Firstly I'm sorry for continually failing to use 'e' 'em' etc, it's
inexcusable at this point.

I'm sorry for trying to take control of Quazie without notifying em or
anyone and certainly without asking. I kind of thought the lesson of
CB was that scams are OK as long as they work but there are certainly
dickish scams that do work. And I messed it up anyway, luckily for
Quazie. I'm sorry for not treating that with any gravity at any point.
I'm sorry for not titling that properly, that was bad too.

I'm sorry for taking the ADoP position instead of giving it to o,
given nobody actually voted for me except the one vote I bought and
I'm sure e would have done a better job. I'm sorry for my inadequate
reports.

Also, I probably shouldn't have bought the election for PM given that
lots of people voted against me, nobody voted directly for me without
it being bought, and I only won because of making Quazie apologise for
doing nothing wrong. I apologise for doing that too.

I'm sorry for not reading the rules anywhere near as closely as
others. I don't do actions or make interpretations that I don't
believe but I don't put the work in that I should put in, and that
others do.

I'm sorry for insta-pending recent proposals that seem to be
meritless, making more work for Aris.

I'm sorry for sending way too many messages. Like, I feel like I've
been a huge spammer recently, whether or not that's true. I've been
known for spamming internet forums as well.

I'm sorry for the CFJ I failed at judging.

I'm sorry for the fact I can't even be bothered to use capitals some
or most of the time.

I'm sorry for the fact that I'm so desperate for voting strength I
wrote this out in like 10 minutes instead of thinking about it.

-- 
>From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] More than one way to skin a win

[Aris Merchant]

I vote [G., o]

-Aris

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 5:04 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> I vote {o, G, ais523 if e is a candidate}
>
> Note that I have no voting strength.
>
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 10:01 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>> I vote {G, o, ais523 if e is a candidate, myself}
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>>>
==THEREFORE, BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED

  As Herald, I initiate a VICTORY ELECTION, a type of Agoran Decision.
  All players are valid options, as is PRESENT; non-player persons
  can also become valid options during the voting period by
  announcement. The vote collector is the Herald, and the voting
  method is instant runoff.

   ===
>>>
>>> I vote [G., nichdel, ais523].
>>>
>>> -o
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From V.J. Rada
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] More than one way to skin a win

[VJ Rada]

I vote {o, G, ais523 if e is a candidate}

Note that I have no voting strength.

On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 10:01 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> I vote {G, o, ais523 if e is a candidate, myself}
>
> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:57 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>>
>>>==THEREFORE, BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED
>>>
>>>  As Herald, I initiate a VICTORY ELECTION, a type of Agoran Decision.
>>>  All players are valid options, as is PRESENT; non-player persons
>>>  can also become valid options during the voting period by
>>>  announcement. The vote collector is the Herald, and the voting
>>>  method is instant runoff.
>>>
>>>   ===
>>
>> I vote [G., nichdel, ais523].
>>
>> -o
>>
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada



-- 
>From V.J. Rada

BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] More than one way to skin a win

[Owen Jacobson]

>==THEREFORE, BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED
> 
>  As Herald, I initiate a VICTORY ELECTION, a type of Agoran Decision.
>  All players are valid options, as is PRESENT; non-player persons
>  can also become valid options during the voting period by
>  announcement. The vote collector is the Herald, and the voting
>  method is instant runoff.
> 
>   ===

I vote [G., nichdel, ais523].

-o



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BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] You thought there was a lot of elections last time. Initiating 8 (!) elections.

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 6:56 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 7:22 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>> 
>> Please note the already ongoing election for agronomist.
>> 
>> I initiate the elections for and the agoran decisions for the
>> determination of the Arbitor, the Superintendent, the Tailor, the
>> Promotor, the Referee, the Registrar, the Surveyor, and the
>> Rulekeepor. These elections are either legal under the 90 day rule or
>> are vacant offices. The vote collector is the ADoP and the quorum is
>> 2.0.
> 
> For all of the above offices that are currently occupied, I vote for the 
> incumbent.
> 
> For the offices which are not occupied, I vote for [Quazie, nichdel, G., 天火狐].

Because I’m not sure I worded the above correctly and I may have unwittingly 
changed my ballot, I retract my vote for the Agronomist. For that office, I 
vote for myself, followed by V.J Rada.

-o



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BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] You thought there was a lot of elections last time. Initiating 8 (!) elections.

[Owen Jacobson]

TTttPF.

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 6:56 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 7:22 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>> 
>> Please note the already ongoing election for agronomist.
>> 
>> I initiate the elections for and the agoran decisions for the
>> determination of the Arbitor, the Superintendent, the Tailor, the
>> Promotor, the Referee, the Registrar, the Surveyor, and the
>> Rulekeepor. These elections are either legal under the 90 day rule or
>> are vacant offices. The vote collector is the ADoP and the quorum is
>> 2.0.
> 
> For all of the above offices that are currently occupied, I vote for the 
> incumbent.
> 
> For the offices which are not occupied, I vote for [Quazie, nichdel, G., 天火狐].
> 
> -o
> 



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Re: BUS: [Proposal] Come What May

[Kerim Aydin]

I vote for o.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> > On Sep 12, 2017, at 11:00 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> > 
> >>> I initiate an election for the office of Agronomist, as no election for 
> >>> this office has happened in the last 90 days (r. 2145). I stand for 
> >>> >>election for this office, but if a player who has no offices would like 
> >>> the job, I would prefer that Agorans vote for them before me.
> > 
> > I initiate the Agoran decision for the determination of Agronomist.
> > The quorum is 2.0 and the vote collector is the ADoP. I vote by
> > endorsing o.
> 
> I vote for myself, followed by V.J Rada.
> 
> -o
> 
>

Re: BUS: [Proposal] Come What May

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Sep 12, 2017, at 11:00 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> 
>>> I initiate an election for the office of Agronomist, as no election for 
>>> this office has happened in the last 90 days (r. 2145). I stand for 
>>> >>election for this office, but if a player who has no offices would like 
>>> the job, I would prefer that Agorans vote for them before me.
> 
> I initiate the Agoran decision for the determination of Agronomist.
> The quorum is 2.0 and the vote collector is the ADoP. I vote by
> endorsing o.

I vote for myself, followed by V.J Rada.

-o



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Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] You thought there was a lot of elections last time. Initiating 8 (!) elections.

[grok (caleb vines)]

On Sep 14, 2017 3:11 PM, "grok (caleb vines)"  wrote:

On Sep 13, 2017 6:22 PM, "VJ Rada"  wrote:

Please note the already ongoing election for agronomist.

I initiate the elections for and the agoran decisions for the
determination of the Arbitor, the Superintendent, the Tailor, the
Promotor, the Referee, the Registrar, the Surveyor, and the
Rulekeepor. These elections are either legal under the 90 day rule or
are vacant offices. The vote collector is the ADoP and the quorum is
2.0.

--
>From V.J Rada


In the election for registrar , I vote for the player with the most votes
that is not the incumbent, using alphabetical order as a tiebreaker.

If the above condition would result in a vote for the incumbent, I abstain
from the election for registrar.

I abstain from all other elections triggered by the quoted announcement.


-grok


Better idea:

In the elections for Arbitor, Superintendent, Tailor, Promotor, Referee,
Rulekeepor, and Surveyor, I endorse the player whose name matches the value
of gFP's name switch.


-grok

BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] You thought there was a lot of elections last time. Initiating 8 (!) elections.

[grok (caleb vines)]

On Sep 13, 2017 6:22 PM, "VJ Rada"  wrote:

Please note the already ongoing election for agronomist.

I initiate the elections for and the agoran decisions for the
determination of the Arbitor, the Superintendent, the Tailor, the
Promotor, the Referee, the Registrar, the Surveyor, and the
Rulekeepor. These elections are either legal under the 90 day rule or
are vacant offices. The vote collector is the ADoP and the quorum is
2.0.

--
>From V.J Rada


In the election for registrar , I vote for the player with the most votes
that is not the incumbent, using alphabetical order as a tiebreaker.

If the above condition would result in a vote for the incumbent, I abstain
from the election for registrar.

I abstain from all other elections triggered by the quoted announcement.


-grok

BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3558 assigned to Publius Scribonius Scholasticus

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

I judge this TRUE because VJ Rada failed to make eir registration unambiguous 
and clear and therefore it was not by announcement and therefore no 
restrictions were triggered. I will add that the message alone would have been 
ineffective in causing eir registration and a key element in eir registration 
was eir taking of actions as if e were a player.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Sep 5, 2017, at 8:11 PM, Alex Smith  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 2017-09-06 at 10:06 +1000, V.J Rada wrote:
>> I now, without any comment as to my playerhood, call a CFJ, using AP
>> if I happen to own any.
>> 
>> "VJ Rada is a player".
> 
> This is CFJ 3558. I assign it to Publius Scribonius Scholasticus.
> 
> --
> ais523
> Arbitor



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BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] You thought there was a lot of elections last time. Initiating 8 (!) elections.

[Kerim Aydin]

On Thu, 14 Sep 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> Please note the already ongoing election for agronomist.
> 
> I initiate the elections for and the agoran decisions for the
> determination of the Arbitor, the Superintendent, the Tailor, the
> Promotor, the Referee, the Registrar, the Surveyor, and the
> Rulekeepor. These elections are either legal under the 90 day rule or
> are vacant offices. The vote collector is the ADoP and the quorum is
> 2.0.

I vote as follows:

Arbitor: {G}.
Tailor:  {G}.


Promotor, Referee, Registrar,  Rulekeepor:
{
  Incumbent of that office if e votes for emself first on eir list of options,
  the first person (in time) to vote for emself first (on eir list of options),
  endorse Incumbent
}.


Superintendent, Surveyor:
{
  PRESENT,
  Incumbent of that office if e votes for emself first on eir list of options,
  the first person (in time) to vote for emself first (on eir list of options)
}.

Comment:

I have no idea how to handle PRESENT in runoff voting.  Is it a replacement
for the whole list, or is it an option on the list?  If it's the first option
on a ranked voting, is PRESENT "eliminated" if it doesn't win, so my vote 
doesn't
end up counting towards quorum?  And what happens if PRESENT is the majority?
is everyone else eliminated?  I'm not sure if the "standard definition of 
instant
runoff" covers this.   So let's test that in some slightly-less essential 
offices.
Fun!!

Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] More than one way to skin a win

[Josh T]

I vote PRESENT on the victory election.

天火狐

On 14 September 2017 at 05:53, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I vote [G.,nichdel,Aris,o,PSS], followed by all players who endorse this
> vote, with those doing so first coming earliest, followed by all players,
> not included earlier, excluding Cuddlebeam and VJ Rada sorted from the
> earliest registration to the latest.
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> > On Sep 14, 2017, at 2:40 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > So I pledged to resolve a victory election recently.  I was planning to
> > do that now.  I looked back.
> >
> > PSS, as Herald, tried twice to initiate one back in May.  The first time,
> > e forgot to include an option, which was CoEd and accepted as failed.
> > The second attempt was CFJ'd by me, based on a detail of its form.  This
> > detail was found to be inconsequential in CFJ 3513, so the initiation was
> > found to have worked:
> >  https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3513
> >
> > HOWEVER, neither the Caller, nor the Judge noticed the fatal flaw in
> > that judgement - the initiation attempt had only been sent to Discussion!
> >   https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/
> agora-discussion/2017-May/042742.html
> >
> > After searching, I believe there was no followup PF, and the
> judgement was
> > wrong for this trivial reason.  Which means no Victory Election has been
> > initiated in the past 180 days.  [Note:  PSS said as much recently, but
> didn't
> > give the reason, so I thought e'd just missed the CFJ result...
> apologies for
> > doubting you PSS!].
> >
> > Aaaanyway...
> >
> >==THEREFORE, BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED
> >
> >  As Herald, I initiate a VICTORY ELECTION, a type of Agoran Decision.
> >  All players are valid options, as is PRESENT; non-player persons
> >  can also become valid options during the voting period by
> >  announcement. The vote collector is the Herald, and the voting
> >  method is instant runoff.
> >
> >   ===
> >
> >
> >
>
>

BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] More than one way to skin a win

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

I vote [G.,nichdel,Aris,o,PSS], followed by all players who endorse this vote, 
with those doing so first coming earliest, followed by all players, not 
included earlier, excluding Cuddlebeam and VJ Rada sorted from the earliest 
registration to the latest.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Sep 14, 2017, at 2:40 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> So I pledged to resolve a victory election recently.  I was planning to
> do that now.  I looked back.
> 
> PSS, as Herald, tried twice to initiate one back in May.  The first time,
> e forgot to include an option, which was CoEd and accepted as failed.
> The second attempt was CFJ'd by me, based on a detail of its form.  This
> detail was found to be inconsequential in CFJ 3513, so the initiation was
> found to have worked:
>  https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?3513
> 
> HOWEVER, neither the Caller, nor the Judge noticed the fatal flaw in
> that judgement - the initiation attempt had only been sent to Discussion!
>   
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2017-May/042742.html
> 
> After searching, I believe there was no followup PF, and the judgement was
> wrong for this trivial reason.  Which means no Victory Election has been
> initiated in the past 180 days.  [Note:  PSS said as much recently, but didn't
> give the reason, so I thought e'd just missed the CFJ result... apologies for
> doubting you PSS!].
> 
> Aaaanyway...
> 
>==THEREFORE, BE IT HEREBY RESOLVED
> 
>  As Herald, I initiate a VICTORY ELECTION, a type of Agoran Decision.
>  All players are valid options, as is PRESENT; non-player persons
>  can also become valid options during the voting period by
>  announcement. The vote collector is the Herald, and the voting
>  method is instant runoff.
> 
>   ===
> 
> 
> 



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Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] You thought there was a lot of elections last time. Initiating 8 (!) elections.

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

TTttPF

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Sep 13, 2017, at 9:19 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
>  wrote:
> 
> I vote for myself for the Registrar and endorse the incumbent in all other 
> elections.
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 13, 2017, at 7:31 PM, Quazie  wrote:
>> 
>> In all elections opened in the quoted message I vote [Present]
>> 
>> In all elections opened in the quoted message I vote :
>> {
>>  [
>>   The Incumbent, unless the Incumbent is VJ Rada,
>>   Whoever first votes for emself, unless that player is VJ Rada,
>>   Endorse G, unless that leads to voting for VJ Rada
>>  ]
>> }
>> 
>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 4:22 PM VJ Rada  wrote:
>> Please note the already ongoing election for agronomist.
>> 
>> I initiate the elections for and the agoran decisions for the
>> determination of the Arbitor, the Superintendent, the Tailor, the
>> Promotor, the Referee, the Registrar, the Surveyor, and the
>> Rulekeepor. These elections are either legal under the 90 day rule or
>> are vacant offices. The vote collector is the ADoP and the quorum is
>> 2.0.
>> 
>> --
>> From V.J Rada
> 



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