BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8544-8548
On 2/28/21 11:38 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-official wrote: > 8544* Murphy 3.0 Clarify dependent actions Uh... Conditional: FOR if G. is FOR, else AGAINST > 8545* Aris, Murphy3.0 Uncanny Fixes FOR > 8546*~ G. 3.0 Talisn't FOR > 8547*~ Jason, G. 3.0 ER office restriction FOR > 8548&~ Jason 2.0 Stone defaults FOR -- Jason Cobb Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8544-8548
I vote as follows: > > ID Author(s) AITitle > --- > 8544* Murphy 3.0 Clarify dependent actions PRESENT. To be honest, even with the diff someone provided, I have no clue what this actually winds up changing; however, that isn't really Murphy's fault in this case. I may reconsider if some others are able to figure out what's going on. > 8545* Aris, Murphy3.0 Uncanny Fixes FOR > 8546*~ G. 3.0 Talisn't FOR > 8547*~ Jason, G. 3.0 ER office restriction FOR > 8548&~ Jason 2.0 Stone defaults FOR -Aris
BUS: Re: (@notary, @assessor) A vote, a promise, and a [cfj]
On 2/28/2021 3:58 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > I grant myself a promise, "Neverending PRESENT", with the following text: So if this works, or fails on a minor technicality, my guess is that the best fix is to prevent promises from making promises - does that break anything useful? We can protect ballots from indeterminacy if we want, but as long as this promise loopiness exists there will probably be something that can be looped for a paradox win. -G.
BUS: (@notary, @assessor) A vote, a promise, and a [cfj]
[Apologies if this has been done before or I'm missing a super-obvious error-trap; I found some old variant attempts but not one like this?] I grant myself a promise, "Neverending PRESENT", with the following text: 1. I grant myself a new promise with a text identical to the text of the "Neverending PRESENT" promise. 2. If I have cast a non-withdrawn ballot on the referendum to adopt Proposal 8543, I withdraw it; otherwise I vote PRESENT (unconditionally) on the referendum to adopt Proposal 8543. 3. I cash the new promise. I cash the above-created promise. I CFJ: The cashing of one or more promises created by G. has been EFFECTIVE at changing the final vote tally and/or number of voters on the referendum to adopt Proposal 8543, for the purposes of R208, R879, and/or R2623. Caller's Evidence: [The above message] Caller's Arguments: For the purpose of cashing a single instance of the above promise, every step should be determinate (and the conditional in step #2 well-determined), so the cashing should succeed and have the effects described in its text. Collectively, I believe this makes the status of my ballot indeterminate (alternating infinitely between being cast and not) and therefore make this CFJ PARADOXICAL. It is not irrelevant even if the proposal is resolved by publishing two separate announcements (one for each state), as the resolution method propagates to affecting the vote count for quorum and/or popularity.
BUS: Fwd: (@notary, @assessor) A vote, a promise, and a [cfj]
I withdraw my most recently-called cfj. I CFJ: The cashing of one or more promises created by G. has been EFFECTIVE at changing the final vote tally and/or number of voters on the referendum to adopt Proposal 8543, for the purposes of R208, R879, and/or R2623. Caller's Evidence: [The above message] I believe without G.'s votes, the proposal in question had at least 5 (a quorum) of unconditinal votes. Caller's Arguments: For the purpose of cashing a single instance of the above promise, every step should be determinate (and the conditional in step #2 well-determined), so the cashing should succeed and have the effects described in its text. Collectively, I believe this makes the status of my ballot indeterminate (alternating infinitely between being cast and not) and therefore make this CFJ PARADOXICAL. It is not irrelevant even if the proposal is resolved by publishing two separate announcements (one for each state), as the resolution method propagates to affecting the vote count for quorum and/or popularity.
BUS: [Proposal] Uncanny Fixes
I submit the following proposal and pend it with a pendant. -Aris --- Title: Uncanny Fixes Adoption index: 3.0 Author: Aris Co-authors: Murphy [CAN requires a method, but there are a bunch of places it occurs without a method or is otherwise used incorrectly. For instance, all caps CAN is used in a bunch of places where its narrow, technical meaning doesn't quite seem to apply.] Amend Rule 2505, "Random Choices", by replacing: The choice CAN be made using any physical or computational process whose probability distribution among the possible outcomes is reasonably close to that required by the Rules, and for which the final choice is not trivially predictable by the selecting person in advance. with: The choice can be made using any physical or computational process whose probability distribution among the possible outcomes is reasonably close to that required by the Rules, and for which the final choice is not trivially predictable by the selecting person in advance. Amend Rule 2619, "Indictment", by replacing: When an investigator has issued an Indictment, the perpetrator CAN state a defence. with: When an investigator has issued an Indictment, the perpetrator may state a defence. Amend Rule 591, "Delivering Judgements", by replacing: A CFJ judged as INSUFFICIENT CAN and SHOULD be submitted again with sufficient arguments/evidence. with: A CFJ judged as INSUFFICIENT SHOULD be submitted again with sufficient arguments/evidence. Amend Rule 2634, "Buoyancy Control", by replacing: The Treasuror CAN and MAY exercise reasonable judgement in calculating the Total Buoyancy. The Total Buoyancy will be deemed set so long as the value chosen by the Treasuror is not obviously and grossly incorrect. The Treasuror CAN and MAY set the Total Buoyancy more than once a month, but SHOULD NOT do so unless there is reason to believe eir previous setting of the value failed. with: The Treasuror may exercise reasonable judgement in calculating the Total Buoyancy. The Total Buoyancy will be deemed set so long as the value chosen by the Treasuror is not obviously and grossly incorrect. The Treasuror may set the Total Buoyancy more than once a month, but SHOULD NOT do so unless there is reason to believe eir previous setting of the value failed. Amend Rule 2231, "Order of the Hero of Agora Nomic", by replacing: Grand Hero of Agora Nomic (GHAN) -- This title CAN be awarded to any person obviously and directly responsible for the existence of Agora and/or Nomic in general. As this title is the highest honour that Agora may bestow, a Bearer of this title OUGHT to be treated right good forever. Hero of Agora Nomic (HAN) -- This title CAN be awarded to any person for outstanding meritorious service to Agora above and beyond the call of duty. with: Grand Hero of Agora Nomic (GHAN) -- This title may be awarded to any person obviously and directly responsible for the existence of Agora and/or Nomic in general. As this title is the highest honour that Agora may bestow, a Bearer of this title OUGHT to be treated right good forever. Hero of Agora Nomic (HAN) -- This title may be awarded to any person for outstanding meritorious service to Agora above and beyond the call of duty. [Unless there's an objection, just going to yank this. No reason for free tournaments to be treated differently than other kinds of tournament.] Amend Rule 2566, "Free Tournaments", by removing: Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, only players CAN win the game via a free tournament. Amend Rule 2614, "Eclipse Light", by replacing: Emergency Regulations CAN: with: Emergency Regulations CAN, as part of their effect: Amend Rule 107, "Initiating Agoran Decisions", by replacing: The vote collector for a decision with less than two options CAN and SHALL end the voting period by announcement, if it has not ended already, and provided that e resolves the decision in the same message. with: The vote collector for a decision with less than two options CAN end the voting period by announcement, if it has not ended already, and provided that e resolves the decision in the same message. Amend Rule 2573, "Impeachment", by replacing: A player CAN be expelled (impeached) from a specified elected office which e holds with 2 Agoran consent. with: Any player CAN, with 2 Agoran consent, expel (impeach) the holder of a specified elected office.
Re: BUS: [proposal] ER Patch
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 3:24 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-business
wrote:
>
> I support each such intent.
>
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 11:40 PM Falsifian via agora-business <
> agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 02:18:20PM -0800, Kerim Aydin via agora-business
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2/28/2021 1:37 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:
> > > > On 2/28/21 4:36 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote:
> > > >> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:37 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business <
> > > >> agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> I submit the following proposal and request its ceritifcation:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Title: ER office restriction
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Author: Jason
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Coauthors: G.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Adoption index: 3.0
> > > >>>
> > > >>> {
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Amend Rule 2614 ("Eclipse Light") by replacing "Appoint or remove
> > > >>> officeholders." with "Appoint or remove officeholders, other than
> > Prime
> > > >>> Minister or Speaker."
> > > >>>
> > > >>> }
> > > >>
> > > >> I intend, for N from 2 through 5, to certify (pend) this proposal
> > with N
> > > >> support.
> > > >>
> > > >> -Aris
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I support each such intent.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I also support each intent
> >
> > I also support each intent.
> >
> > --
> > Falsifian
With 4 support, I do so.
-Aris
Re: BUS: [proposal] talisman bugfix
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 3:23 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > > I support each such intent. > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 11:48 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business < > agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > > On 2/28/2021 2:33 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > > > On 2/28/21 5:32 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote: > > >> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 2:27 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I create the following proposal, "Talisn't", AI-3, and request > > certification. > > >> For N from 2 through 5, I intend with N support to certify (pend) this > > proposal. > > >> > > >> -Aris > > > > > > > > > I support each such intent. > > > > > > > I also support each such intent. > > > > -G. With 3 support, I do so. -Aris
Re: BUS: [proposal] Stone clarification
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 3:12 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business wrote: > > > On 2/28/2021 1:37 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > > On 2/28/21 4:33 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: > >> On 2/28/21 4:32 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote: > >>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 2:15 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business < > >>> agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I submit the following proposal and request its certification: > > Title: Stone defaults > > Author: Jason > > Coauthors: > > Adoption index: 2.0 > > >>> I intend, for N from 2 through 5, to certify (pend) this proposal with N > >>> support. > >>> > >>> -Aris > >> > >> I support. > >> > > > > *sigh* > > > > If I haven't already, I support each such intent. > > > > As do I. -G. With 2 support, I do so. -Aris
BUS: Thanks All Around [attn. Treasuror]
I give G., Jason, Falsifian, and CuddleBeam 5 coins each, as thanks for supporting my last minute certifications. -Aris
Re: BUS: [proposal] ER Patch
I support each such intent.
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 11:40 PM Falsifian via agora-business <
agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 02:18:20PM -0800, Kerim Aydin via agora-business
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 2/28/2021 1:37 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:
> > > On 2/28/21 4:36 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote:
> > >> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:37 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business <
> > >> agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I submit the following proposal and request its ceritifcation:
> > >>>
> > >>> Title: ER office restriction
> > >>>
> > >>> Author: Jason
> > >>>
> > >>> Coauthors: G.
> > >>>
> > >>> Adoption index: 3.0
> > >>>
> > >>> {
> > >>>
> > >>> Amend Rule 2614 ("Eclipse Light") by replacing "Appoint or remove
> > >>> officeholders." with "Appoint or remove officeholders, other than
> Prime
> > >>> Minister or Speaker."
> > >>>
> > >>> }
> > >>
> > >> I intend, for N from 2 through 5, to certify (pend) this proposal
> with N
> > >> support.
> > >>
> > >> -Aris
> > >>
> > >
> > > I support each such intent.
> > >
> >
> > I also support each intent
>
> I also support each intent.
>
> --
> Falsifian
>
Re: BUS: [proposal] talisman bugfix
I support each such intent. On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 11:48 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business < agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 2/28/2021 2:33 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > > On 2/28/21 5:32 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote: > >> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 2:27 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> I create the following proposal, "Talisn't", AI-3, and request > certification. > >> For N from 2 through 5, I intend with N support to certify (pend) this > proposal. > >> > >> -Aris > > > > > > I support each such intent. > > > > I also support each such intent. > > -G. > >
Re: BUS: [proposal] Stone clarification
On 2/28/2021 1:37 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > On 2/28/21 4:33 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: >> On 2/28/21 4:32 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote: >>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 2:15 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business < >>> agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote: I submit the following proposal and request its certification: Title: Stone defaults Author: Jason Coauthors: Adoption index: 2.0 >>> I intend, for N from 2 through 5, to certify (pend) this proposal with N >>> support. >>> >>> -Aris >> >> I support. >> > > *sigh* > > If I haven't already, I support each such intent. > As do I. -G.
Re: BUS: [proposal] talisman bugfix
On 2/28/2021 2:33 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > On 2/28/21 5:32 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote: >> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 2:27 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business >> wrote: >>> >>> I create the following proposal, "Talisn't", AI-3, and request >>> certification. >> For N from 2 through 5, I intend with N support to certify (pend) this >> proposal. >> >> -Aris > > > I support each such intent. > I also support each such intent. -G.
Re: BUS: [proposal] ER Patch
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 02:18:20PM -0800, Kerim Aydin via agora-business wrote:
>
>
> On 2/28/2021 1:37 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:
> > On 2/28/21 4:36 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote:
> >> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:37 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business <
> >> agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I submit the following proposal and request its ceritifcation:
> >>>
> >>> Title: ER office restriction
> >>>
> >>> Author: Jason
> >>>
> >>> Coauthors: G.
> >>>
> >>> Adoption index: 3.0
> >>>
> >>> {
> >>>
> >>> Amend Rule 2614 ("Eclipse Light") by replacing "Appoint or remove
> >>> officeholders." with "Appoint or remove officeholders, other than Prime
> >>> Minister or Speaker."
> >>>
> >>> }
> >>
> >> I intend, for N from 2 through 5, to certify (pend) this proposal with N
> >> support.
> >>
> >> -Aris
> >>
> >
> > I support each such intent.
> >
>
> I also support each intent
I also support each intent.
--
Falsifian
Re: BUS: [proposal] talisman bugfix
On 2/28/21 5:32 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote: > On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 2:27 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business > wrote: >> >> I create the following proposal, "Talisn't", AI-3, and request certification. > For N from 2 through 5, I intend with N support to certify (pend) this > proposal. > > -Aris I support each such intent. -- Jason Cobb Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: BUS: [proposal] talisman bugfix
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 2:27 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business wrote: > > > I create the following proposal, "Talisn't", AI-3, and request certification. For N from 2 through 5, I intend with N support to certify (pend) this proposal. -Aris
BUS: [proposal] talisman bugfix
I create the following proposal, "Talisn't", AI-3, and request certification. Amend Rule 2575 (The Distributor) by replacing: Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, the talisman for the Distributor is possessed by emself (and is transferred to em if it ever is not), and e CANNOT deregister or be deregistered. with: Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, the Distributor CANNOT deregister or be deregistered.
Re: BUS: [proposal] ER Patch
On 2/28/2021 1:37 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote:
> On 2/28/21 4:36 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote:
>> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:37 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business <
>> agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I submit the following proposal and request its ceritifcation:
>>>
>>> Title: ER office restriction
>>>
>>> Author: Jason
>>>
>>> Coauthors: G.
>>>
>>> Adoption index: 3.0
>>>
>>> {
>>>
>>> Amend Rule 2614 ("Eclipse Light") by replacing "Appoint or remove
>>> officeholders." with "Appoint or remove officeholders, other than Prime
>>> Minister or Speaker."
>>>
>>> }
>>
>> I intend, for N from 2 through 5, to certify (pend) this proposal with N
>> support.
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>
> I support each such intent.
>
I also support each intent
Re: BUS: [proposal] ER Patch
On 2/28/21 4:36 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:37 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business <
> agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
>> I submit the following proposal and request its ceritifcation:
>>
>> Title: ER office restriction
>>
>> Author: Jason
>>
>> Coauthors: G.
>>
>> Adoption index: 3.0
>>
>> {
>>
>> Amend Rule 2614 ("Eclipse Light") by replacing "Appoint or remove
>> officeholders." with "Appoint or remove officeholders, other than Prime
>> Minister or Speaker."
>>
>> }
>
> I intend, for N from 2 through 5, to certify (pend) this proposal with N
> support.
>
> -Aris
>
I support each such intent.
--
Jason Cobb
Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: BUS: [proposal] Stone clarification
On 2/28/21 4:33 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: > On 2/28/21 4:32 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote: >> On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 2:15 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business < >> agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote: >>> I submit the following proposal and request its certification: >>> >>> Title: Stone defaults >>> >>> Author: Jason >>> >>> Coauthors: >>> >>> Adoption index: 2.0 >>> >> I intend, for N from 2 through 5, to certify (pend) this proposal with N >> support. >> >> -Aris > > I support. > *sigh* If I haven't already, I support each such intent. -- Jason Cobb Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: BUS: [proposal] ER Patch
On Sun, Feb 28, 2021 at 9:37 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business <
agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> I submit the following proposal and request its ceritifcation:
>
> Title: ER office restriction
>
> Author: Jason
>
> Coauthors: G.
>
> Adoption index: 3.0
>
> {
>
> Amend Rule 2614 ("Eclipse Light") by replacing "Appoint or remove
> officeholders." with "Appoint or remove officeholders, other than Prime
> Minister or Speaker."
>
> }
I intend, for N from 2 through 5, to certify (pend) this proposal with N
support.
-Aris
>
Re: BUS: [proposal] Stone clarification
On 2/28/21 4:32 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote: > On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 2:15 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business < > agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote: >> I submit the following proposal and request its certification: >> >> Title: Stone defaults >> >> Author: Jason >> >> Coauthors: >> >> Adoption index: 2.0 >> > I intend, for N from 2 through 5, to certify (pend) this proposal with N > support. > > -Aris I support. -- Jason Cobb Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: BUS: [proposal] Stone clarification
On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 2:15 PM Jason Cobb via agora-business < agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > I submit the following proposal and request its certification: > > Title: Stone defaults > > Author: Jason > > Coauthors: > > Adoption index: 2.0 > I intend, for N from 2 through 5, to certify (pend) this proposal with N support. -Aris
BUS: Ribboning
To the best of my knowledge, I have not missed any ADoP deadlines within the past 30 days (last missed deadline I know of was initiating Referee voting on Jan 17). Accordingly, I award myself a Green Ribbon.
BUS: [proposal] ER Patch
I submit the following proposal and request its ceritifcation:
Title: ER office restriction
Author: Jason
Coauthors: G.
Adoption index: 3.0
{
Amend Rule 2614 ("Eclipse Light") by replacing "Appoint or remove
officeholders." with "Appoint or remove officeholders, other than Prime
Minister or Speaker."
}
--
Jason Cobb
Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Clarify dependent actions (attn Promotor)
Aris wrote: On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 10:31 AM Edward Murphy via agora-business wrote: I pend the following proposal (identical to proto). Proposal: Clarify dependent actions (AI = 3) Statement from the Promotor: There has been some question as to whether this proposal was validly submitted. After considering precedent, it is the opinion of the Office of the Promotor that the proposal was in fact submitted, but was not validly pended, because it was not specified that the pend fee was a pendant. I recommend that Murphy converge the submission and repend the proposal properly. -The Promotor If the above proposal is not already pended, then I spend one (1) pendant to pend it. (Insert pedantic pun here.) Statement from Aris: This wasn't brought up on list at the time of the proto, and I'm sorry about that. That said... this is really hard to read. Like, I don't generally mind doing mental diffs for rules that are a paragraph long or something. But expecting people to do mental diffs for some of the longest rules in the game is a bit much? -Aris Would it have helped to add a comment quoting the existing rules, or is there something else you're aiming for here?
BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8541-8543
I vote as follows: 8541* Aris3.0 You CAN, CAN'T You? FOR 8542& Jason, Aris 2.0 Stone Excitement Act FOR 8543& Jason, Aris, nix1.0 En Passant v2 FOR
BUS: (@treasuror, @ministor) monthly grant and plan
I grant myself a Justice card (personal grant compliance focus). I plan to flip my focus to Participation. -G.
