Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 6:51 PM Aris Merchant < thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 6:47 PM Ed Strange via agora-discussion < > agora-discuss...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> we all agree this is aris right >> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 11:46 AM nch via agora-business < >> agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote: >> >> > On 6/22/20 8:44 PM, Unspecified Behavior via agora-business wrote: >> > > I do not register, as I am already a player. >> > > >> > > I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I >> vote >> > FOR >> > > on Proposal 8442. > > > No comment. > Let the record reflect that I didn't have any clue who this was before the public did, other than that I knew that it wasn't me. It was fun letting everyone assume it *was* me though. -Aris >
Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 11:23 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business
wrote:
>
> On 6/22/20 9:44 PM, Unspecified Behavior via agora-business wrote:
> > I do not register, as I am already a player.
> >
> > I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote FOR
> > on Proposal 8442.
>
>
> Well, I guess someone has to.
>
> I CFJ: "If the person who sent the above message is a player, e cast a
> vote on Proposal 8442 in that message."
>
> Evidence:
>
> {
>
> "the above message" is at [0].
>
> [0]:
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2020-June/043565.html
>
>
> Rule 478/48 [Excerpt]:
>
> > A public message is a message sent via a public forum, or sent to
> > all players and containing a clear designation of intent to be
> > public. A rule can also designate that a part of one public
> > message is considered a public message in its own right. To
> > "publish" or "announce" something is to send a public message
> > whose body contains that thing. To do something "publicly" is
> > to do that thing within a public message.
> >
> > Where the rules define an action that a person CAN perform "by
> > announcement", that person performs that action by unambiguously
> > and clearly specifying the action and announcing that e performs
> > it. Any action performed by sending a message is performed at the
> > time date-stamped on that message. Actions in messages (including
> > sub-messages) are performed in the order they appear in the
> > message, unless otherwise specified.
>
> }
>
>
> Arguments:
>
> {
>
> Does the actor of the action need to be clearly specified for it to be
> performed by announcement? I don't see any text in the rules that
> necessarily implies so.
>
> }
>
> --
> Jason Cobb
>
Gratuitous Arguments:
R478 defines "publishing" as a public message, which requires a "clear
designation of intent." R683 article 2 requires the publisher to be
"at the initiation of the decision, a player". Since
unspecifiedbehav...@gmail.com is not known as a player's primary or
alternate email address, the following two things are true:
1. It is unclear which player's vote the entity intends to withdraw.
2. It is unclear which player the entity intends to vote on behalf of.
1 has indeterminate intent, and should not be considered a
publication. 2 is more tenuous, but I argue without knowing the
identity of the voting player it is impossible to know which vote they
intend to change. A message without clear intent is not a public
message, and therefore cannot be a publication.
Re: [Petition] Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 9:48 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business wrote: > On 6/22/20 9:44 PM, Unspecified Behavior via agora-business wrote: > > I do not register, as I am already a player. > > > > I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote > FOR > > on Proposal 8442. > > > > This makes me wonder whether we ought to have a subpoena process. The > next best thing we have is petitions, so here we go: > > If the player who sent the above message is an officer, I do publicly > petition them to reveal eir identity. > > I may or may not be an officer, but I refuse to reveal my identity until I have pledged to do so.
Re: DIS: Re: [CFJ] Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 9:42 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > If there exists no CFJ with the statement "If the person who sent the > above message is a player, e cast a vote on Proposal 8442 in that > message.", I initiate one. Arguments: I thought I remembered a precedent that anonymous actions didn't work, because for a statement of "I perform an action" to be unambiguous, you need to identify who "I" is. ...But apparently my memory is faulty. This pair of cases is all I can find, and it suggests that anonymous actions do work, or at least did under the rules of the time: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?2179 https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?2180
Re: DIS: Re: [CFJ] Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On 6/23/20 12:40 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion wrote: > "If the person who sent the above message is a player, e cast > a vote on Proposal 8442 in that message." If there exists two CFJs with the statement "If the person who sent the above message is a player, e cast a vote on Proposal 8442 in that message.", I withdraw the most recently created one. If there exists no CFJ with the statement "If the person who sent the above message is a player, e cast a vote on Proposal 8442 in that message.", I initiate one. -- Jason Cobb
Re: [CFJ] Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On 6/23/20 12:23 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: > On 6/23/20 12:22 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: >> Well, I guess someone has to. >> >> I CFJ: "If the person who sent the above message is a player, e cast >> a vote on Proposal 8442 in that message." >> > Signaling for the arbitor. > If the above message initiated a CFJ, I withdraw it. -- Jason Cobb
Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
Original Message
On Jun 23, 2020, 11:22 AM, Jason Cobb via agora-business <
agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote:
On 6/22/20 9:44 PM, Unspecified Behavior via agora-business wrote:
> I do not register, as I am already a player.
>
> I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote FOR
> on Proposal 8442.
Well, I guess someone has to.
I CFJ: "If the person who sent the above message is a player, e cast a
vote on Proposal 8442 in that message."
Evidence:
{
"the above message" is at [0].
[0]:
https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2020-June/043565.html
Rule 478/48 [Excerpt]:
> A public message is a message sent via a public forum, or sent to
> all players and containing a clear designation of intent to be
> public. A rule can also designate that a part of one public
> message is considered a public message in its own right. To
> "publish" or "announce" something is to send a public message
> whose body contains that thing. To do something "publicly" is
> to do that thing within a public message.
>
> Where the rules define an action that a person CAN perform "by
> announcement", that person performs that action by unambiguously
> and clearly specifying the action and announcing that e performs
> it. Any action performed by sending a message is performed at the
> time date-stamped on that message. Actions in messages (including
> sub-messages) are performed in the order they appear in the
> message, unless otherwise specified.
}
Arguments:
{
Does the actor of the action need to be clearly specified for it to be
performed by announcement? I don't see any text in the rules that
necessarily implies so.
}
--
Jason Cobb
I disfavor this case.
[CFJ] Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On 6/23/20 12:22 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: > Well, I guess someone has to. > > I CFJ: "If the person who sent the above message is a player, e cast > a vote on Proposal 8442 in that message." > Signaling for the arbitor. -- Jason Cobb
Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On 6/22/20 9:44 PM, Unspecified Behavior via agora-business wrote:
> I do not register, as I am already a player.
>
> I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote FOR
> on Proposal 8442.
Well, I guess someone has to.
I CFJ: "If the person who sent the above message is a player, e cast a
vote on Proposal 8442 in that message."
Evidence:
{
"the above message" is at [0].
[0]:
https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2020-June/043565.html
Rule 478/48 [Excerpt]:
> A public message is a message sent via a public forum, or sent to
> all players and containing a clear designation of intent to be
> public. A rule can also designate that a part of one public
> message is considered a public message in its own right. To
> "publish" or "announce" something is to send a public message
> whose body contains that thing. To do something "publicly" is
> to do that thing within a public message.
>
> Where the rules define an action that a person CAN perform "by
> announcement", that person performs that action by unambiguously
> and clearly specifying the action and announcing that e performs
> it. Any action performed by sending a message is performed at the
> time date-stamped on that message. Actions in messages (including
> sub-messages) are performed in the order they appear in the
> message, unless otherwise specified.
}
Arguments:
{
Does the actor of the action need to be clearly specified for it to be
performed by announcement? I don't see any text in the rules that
necessarily implies so.
}
--
Jason Cobb
Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On 2020-06-22 19:44, Unspecified Behavior via agora-business wrote: I do not register, as I am already a player. I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote FOR on Proposal 8442. Thank you for not testing this with stuff I track. -- Trigon I LOVE SPAGHETTI transfer Jason one coin nch was here I hereby don't... trust... the dragon... don't... trust... the dragon... Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 6:47 PM Ed Strange via agora-discussion < agora-discuss...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > we all agree this is aris right > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 11:46 AM nch via agora-business < > agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > On 6/22/20 8:44 PM, Unspecified Behavior via agora-business wrote: > > > I do not register, as I am already a player. > > > > > > I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote > > FOR > > > on Proposal 8442. No comment. -Aris
Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
I pledge to reveal my identity after any CFJ depending on it has been judged. On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 9:45 PM Unspecified Behavior via agora-business < agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I do not register, as I am already a player. > > I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote FOR > on Proposal 8442. >
Re: [Petition] Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On 2020-06-22 19:48, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business wrote: On 6/22/20 9:44 PM, Unspecified Behavior via agora-business wrote: I do not register, as I am already a player. I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote FOR on Proposal 8442. This makes me wonder whether we ought to have a subpoena process. The next best thing we have is petitions, so here we go: If the player who sent the above message is an officer, I do publicly petition them to reveal eir identity. I pledge that this person is not me. -- Trigon I LOVE SPAGHETTI transfer Jason one coin nch was here I hereby don't... trust... the dragon... don't... trust... the dragon... Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this
Re: [Petition] Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On 6/22/20 9:48 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business wrote: > On 6/22/20 9:44 PM, Unspecified Behavior via agora-business wrote: >> I do not register, as I am already a player. >> >> I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote FOR >> on Proposal 8442. >> > This makes me wonder whether we ought to have a subpoena process. The > next best thing we have is petitions, so here we go: > > If the player who sent the above message is an officer, I do publicly > petition them to reveal eir identity. > How is enforcible even if the SHALL is violated? -- Jason Cobb
[Petition] Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On 6/22/20 9:44 PM, Unspecified Behavior via agora-business wrote: > I do not register, as I am already a player. > > I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote FOR > on Proposal 8442. > This makes me wonder whether we ought to have a subpoena process. The next best thing we have is petitions, so here we go: If the player who sent the above message is an officer, I do publicly petition them to reveal eir identity. -- Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On 6/22/20 9:46 PM, nch via agora-business wrote: > On 6/22/20 8:44 PM, Unspecified Behavior via agora-business wrote: >> I do not register, as I am already a player. >> >> I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote FOR >> on Proposal 8442. > I strongly disfavor any CFJs that relate to this. > As do I. -- Jason Cobb
Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
I pledge that this is not me, class 1 billion crime. On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 11:46 AM Ed Strange wrote: > we all agree this is aris right > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 11:46 AM nch via agora-business < > agora-business@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> On 6/22/20 8:44 PM, Unspecified Behavior via agora-business wrote: >> > I do not register, as I am already a player. >> > >> > I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote >> FOR >> > on Proposal 8442. >> >> I strongly disfavor any CFJs that relate to this. >> >> -- >> nch >> Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager >> >> >> > > -- > From R. Lee > -- >From R. Lee
Re: BUS: Vote on P8442
On 6/22/20 8:44 PM, Unspecified Behavior via agora-business wrote: > I do not register, as I am already a player. > > I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote FOR > on Proposal 8442. I strongly disfavor any CFJs that relate to this. -- nch Prime Minister, Webmastor, NAX Exchange Manager
BUS: Vote on P8442
I do not register, as I am already a player. I withdraw any vote I may or may not have cast on Proposal 8442. I vote FOR on Proposal 8442.
