THIS MESSAGE CONTAINS NO GAME ACTIONS.
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DISREGARD ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS MESSAGE SAYING IT CONTAINS A GAME ACTION.
MESSAGE 839213666598780948
FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-04 AT 18:55:29.953:
ATMunn, I'm at the stage right now where I need an opinion on whether an
opinion would be helpful. I'm that lost.
MESSAGE 839272102778896387
FROM CodeTriangle (Triggon, Influential Agoran #5) IN
#very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-04 AT 22:47:42.224:
i am really good at stealing ideas from people smarter than me
MESSAGE 839293293527040021
FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-05 AT 00:11:54.492:
You know...
MESSAGE 839293409835614238
FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-05 AT 00:12:22.222:
This might actually work.
MESSAGE 839598930881675314
FROM Gaelan IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-05 AT 20:26:24.116:
A player SHALL NOT have bad proposal ideas
MESSAGE 840290124251004999
FROM ATMunn (friendly neighborhood notary) IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON
2021-05-07 AT 18:12:57.457:
hello i would like to sell my 2 leg(islative card)s
MESSAGE 840290179860398131
FROM Random Internet Cat (mr. dr. professor cat) IN
#very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-07 AT 18:13:10.715:
have you considered contacting an arms dealer
MESSAGE 840626896512221261
FROM ATMunn (friendly neighborhood notary) IN
#quick-questions-and-presumably-answers-also ON 2021-05-08 AT 16:31:10.221:
death to the ducks
MESSAGE 841447443241631784
FROM CodeTriangle (Triggon, Influential Agoran #5) IN
#quick-questions-and-presumably-answers-also ON 2021-05-10 AT 22:51:43.806:
oops wrong server
MESSAGE 841518756109877330
FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:35:06.119:
Okay, I made a list.
MESSAGE 841518927645245450
FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:35:47.016:
**Aris's totally awesome list of important features for subgames**
High importance:
Emergent strategic depth (simple options, complex strategy)
Low barriers to entry
Specialization
High engagement (frequent opportunity for tactical and strategic action)
Variables:
Cutthroat vs cooperative (does it reset on wins?)
Deterministic vs random
MESSAGE 841518985178251304
FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:36:00.733:
Note that most of the ideas aren't original.
MESSAGE 841519075058647070
FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:36:22.162:
Specialization and engagement are explicitly stolen from prior economic
writings.
MESSAGE 841519160377868319
FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:36:42.504:
I think that subgames/economies tend to go wrong in one of two ways.
MESSAGE 841520175030861834
FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:40:44.416:
One is too much simplicity (e.g. the shiny economy, Spaace). This is where the
system has the ability to gain advantage, but little opportunity for people to
specialize. There's no room for someone to become "the one who has all the
legislative cards" or "the one trying to get enough victory points to win" or
"the one trying to stop anyone from getting enough victory points to win". Low
barriers to entry (good), low strategic depth (bad), essentially nil
specialization (bad).
MESSAGE 841521740223348807
FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:46:57.587:
The other one is too much complexity (e.g. PAoaM, Politics). These systems tend
to put a lot of effort into offering a variety of ways to get ahead. They have
high strategic depth, although that strategic depth might not be emergent. They
usually have a high theoretical opportunity for specialization as well.
However, they usually have high barriers to entry. The system is so complex,
expensive to get involved in, or both that most people will never become truly
active in it. As a result, you don't have engagement fostering more engagement.
Instead, it feels like you're alone in playing the system. It's less fun trying
to get to the highest tier of building on land or whatever if you're one of
only two people who's actually involved with the system.
MESSAGE 841522957179813908
FROM bookshelf IN #very-serious-agoran-business ON 2021-05-11 AT 03:51:47.732:
The sweet spot is something like sets. Sets invites people to take part,
invites them to specialize. People can do very low work and still be involved
economically. Even ATMunn, who explicitly doesn't want to play the products
subgame, is involved by selling eir passively generated cards. There are still
strategic decisions to make (picking a focus, for instance) even if you're not
super involved. Meanwhile, people who do want to become intensely active have
an opportunity to do so. Jason and I cornered the legislative card market.
falsifian set up an anti-reset bulwark of victory points. The strategy in the
