Re: DIS: The State of Discussion, Mailing Lists, IRC, and things that were actually invented this century.

[Michael Brown]

Well it's not really more than that at this stage. :D Before getting into
details perhaps we should find a different discussion forum rather than
clogging agora-discussion? I could easily make an NPS Slack server...

On 5 November 2016 at 15:30, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Friday, November 4, 2016, Michael Brown  wrote:
>
>>
>> On 5 November 2016 at 14:35, Aris Merchant > l.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm definitely in favor of this
>>> Discord/Slack idea. I don't know about cost and effort, but for a
>>> discussion forum? Go for it. Besides, it will simplify my plotting
>>> about the next generation of inter-nomic cooperation. I have plans to
>>> repurpose the NPS (Nomic preservation society) for more peaceful aims.
>>> That's all I'm telling from now...
>>>
>>
>> I've been tossing around similar ideas I think. Nomic Preservation
>> Society, League of Nomics, or United Nomics... something like that. A
>> meta-nomic that is itself a nomic, if you will. Also as something to
>> perhaps take up the mantle of the thoroughly defunct nomic.net...
>>
> That sounds exactly like what I was thinking. Let's compare notes!
>
> -Aris
>



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Re: DIS: The State of Discussion, Mailing Lists, IRC, and things that were actually invented this century.

[Michael Brown]

On 5 November 2016 at 13:13, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

>
> If you have ideas for founding rules that aren’t Suber’s, let me know at
> this address?
>

Nothing terribly specific at this stage. I think perhaps something similar
to Blognomic - or anything semi-imperial - might be better suited to the
pull request model. It could be the subject of discussion once we know if
anyone is interested.

Re: DIS: The State of Discussion, Mailing Lists, IRC, and things that were actually invented this century.

[Michael Brown]

On 5 November 2016 at 14:35, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm definitely in favor of this
> Discord/Slack idea. I don't know about cost and effort, but for a
> discussion forum? Go for it. Besides, it will simplify my plotting
> about the next generation of inter-nomic cooperation. I have plans to
> repurpose the NPS (Nomic preservation society) for more peaceful aims.
> That's all I'm telling from now...
>

I've been tossing around similar ideas I think. Nomic Preservation Society,
League of Nomics, or United Nomics... something like that. A meta-nomic
that is itself a nomic, if you will. Also as something to perhaps take up
the mantle of the thoroughly defunct nomic.net...

Re: DIS: The State of Discussion, Mailing Lists, IRC, and things that were actually invented this century.

[Michael Brown]

Remember that Github also has built in wiki, issue system and web hosting
(Jekyll powered -- so there's some automation potential) as well. So there
is some flexibility in how you can manage discussions and game state.

On 5 November 2016 at 13:02, Alexis Hunt  wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 PM Michael Brown 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 5 November 2016 at 11:47, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>>
>> (Personally, I’d like to experiment with a Nomic executed through Github
>> pull requests.)
>>
>>
>> ^^^ This as well. The handful of Github nomics I have seen don't seem to
>> work very well though, either because they don't get very many players
>> and/or they start from the Suber rule set which is not at all well adapted
>> to the pull request model. If others are interested in an experimental
>> little Github nomic I'd love to join in.
>>
>>
> Github seems mediocre for gameplay but lovely for official reports.
>
> -Alexis
>



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Re: DIS: The State of Discussion, Mailing Lists, IRC, and things that were actually invented this century.

[Michael Brown]

On 5 November 2016 at 11:47, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

> (Personally, I’d like to experiment with a Nomic executed through Github
> pull requests.)


^^^ This as well. The handful of Github nomics I have seen don't seem to
work very well though, either because they don't get very many players
and/or they start from the Suber rule set which is not at all well adapted
to the pull request model. If others are interested in an experimental
little Github nomic I'd love to join in.

Re: DIS: The State of Discussion, Mailing Lists, IRC, and things that were actually invented this century.

[Michael Brown]

3') Or a dedicated Agora Slack server with separate channels for OFF, BUS
and DIS...

On 5 November 2016 at 09:24, Nicholas Evans  wrote:

> There's been some frustration voiced about the three mailing list system,
> again. I say again because there was a plan to migrate the mailing lists to
> a unified solution this summer, but it fell by the wayside as, presumably,
> the mailing list maintainer got busy. But now it's being brought up again.
> I thought we'd have a unified discussion for it instead of putting it in
> replies to other things.
>
> (I'd like to link you to the appropriate discussions from this summer, but
> since they're split among multiple archives it's difficult. Look in your
> history, or the archives' history, for "Future of Agora", "might as well
> try for a show of hands" and "Rule Improvements".)
>
> 1) OFF, BUS, and DIS. The split is useful, yes, but also a relic. One
> reason we maintain this split (besides an incredible conservatism) is
> because it prevents accidental action-taking or burying actions in mounds
> of discussion. There's probably better solutions to this though.
>
> 2) Combining BUS and DIS. I'm not against this, but would like some sort
> of Subject convention that makes it remain easy to find office-relevant
> information.
>
> 3) The /other/ discussion forum: IRC. We're still using IRC. I'm 24, and
> the fact that I know what IRC is is an anomaly. We're not going to bring
> any youngsters into the IRC fold, especially when much nicer IRC-like
> solutions like Discord and Slack dominate. Speaking of, I saw that
> BlogNomic has a Slack and wondered what it'd be like to have a unified
> Slack/Discord for nomics. For those of you unfamiliar: you have a server
> with some number of text and voice channels. Slack's very popular among
> tech and freelance professionals, and Discord is very popular among
> gamers/them youths. Both are accessible from websites, downloadable
> clients, and smartphone apps. We could co-operate with BlogNomic and have a
> unified Nomic server with channels for each nomic, as well as a general
> channel. No longer fragmented kingdoms of yore.
>



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Re: DIS: (Off-Topic) BlogNomic

[Michael Brown]

Brendan has indicated that he intends to reintroduce the doomsday proposal
after taking people's concerns into account. We'll have to wait and see
what he comes up with...

On 5 November 2016 at 08:46, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

>
> > On Nov 4, 2016, at 12:14 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> >
> > On the theory that BlogNomic has been colonized by a party bent on
> destroying the game, is there any aid we can extend to the other players?
>
> I withdraw this theory.
>
> > To be clear: my actual goal is to put Blognomic at a REAL RISK of
> ending, but not to make it a foregone conclusion. I’m writing another
> proposal now as a mechanism to stave it off if we get enough interest and
> activity in the dynasty. Kevan’s assessment is pretty spot-on.
>
> - Brendan, at  comments>
>
> Furthermore, the proposal has failed quite dramatically, with half of
> BlogNomic’s eligible voters posting ballots explicitly against it
> as-written. Brendan’s explanation of his rationale and subsequent proposals
> are enough to convince me, at least, that he’s not a mad bomber, even if he
> is a daredevil and an irresponsible risk-taker with the health of that game.
>
> It’ll be interesting to see how the subsequent proposals, which construct
> some kind of doomsday clock, evolve…
>
> -o
>
>


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Re: DIS: (Off-Topic) BlogNomic

[Michael Brown]

I like "the Nomic Preservation Society" and agree the effort should be
broader than Agora itself. This was just a good place to start recruiting.
:D

I'm also fine with the watch and wait approach, but we should be prepared
to act. Of course, people who don't care about Blognomic aren't mandated to
do anything (hence my resolution using "should" and "encouraged" rather
than "shall" and "required"). I figure that people who do care enough to
take action will also tend to stay on and play the game proper, which
should soften any resentment on the Blognomic side.

FYI I'm the player "gazebo_dude" over on Blognomic. I also played Agora
briefly under that name (I'm pretty sure) some years ago... 2005 I think.
Been thinking about rejoining since I've recently come into more free time.


On 4 November 2016 at 16:23, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 10:48 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>
> > While the spirit of this idea admirable, I have serious reservations
> about calling on Agorans - or on any other group - to register and vote en
> bloc on another Nomic. For now - at least - BlogNomic regulars appear to be
> voting down the proposal that would otherwise enable the end of the game.
> >
> > I obviously can’t stop anyone from going to register or to vote, but I
> urge Agorans to respect BlogNomic’s players, and to refrain from flooding
> out regular BlogNomic players in the hopes of saving BlogNomic from itself.
> That trick never works.
> >
> > -o
> >
> I hereby call to order the first meeting of... the Nomic Preservation
> Society? If someone asks, we need to say where all these new players
> are coming from, and they might not like the idea of being invaded by
> another Nomic. Besides, it sounds good, and that's what really
> matters.
>
> I tend to agree that we should just keep an eye on things for now.
> What's really worrying is that both of their "admins" voted for it. If
> we really have to intervene we can, but let's wait and see if it's
> needed. They seem to be handling it on their own for now. It may all
> just be a joke... Not a very funny one, but you know.
>
> -Aris
>

Re: DIS: (Off-Topic) BlogNomic

[Michael Brown]

I am (unfortunately) a lurker here and, until today, also at Blognomic. So
this is officially unofficial, but I hereby move the following for
consideration by all watchers, lurkers and registered players of Agora:

WHEREAS, Nomic is a precious gift to humanity; and

WHEREAS, Long running nomics are rare, and so even more precious; and

WHEREAS, Blognomic is a nomic whose long standing cannot be in dispute; and

WHEREAS, Despite previous tensions and even war between the nomics, Agora
is Blognomic's wiser elder sibling; and

WHEREAS, The Rules clearly implore all to "treat Agora Right Good Forever";
and

WHEREAS, The very existence of Blognomic is at stake; and

WHEREAS, The current state of brinkmanship at Blognomic is a clear cry for
help; therefore be it

RESOLVED,

  First, that the continued flourishing of Blognomic is "Right Good" for
all nomics everywhere; and

  Second, that it is therefore the responsibility of all good nomic
citizens to stand in solidarity with Blognomic; and

  Third, that all players, watchers and other lurkers of Agora should do
all in their power to ensure the survival of Blognomic; and

  Fourth, that all players, watchers and other lurkers of Agora are
therefore encouraged to register as players of Blognomic and vote against
the proposal "Twelve Times Twelve Midnight".

  Fifth, that it is "Right Good" for Agorans to stand in solidarity with
Blognomic through official legislative recognition of this dark time.


On 4 November 2016 at 14:14, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

> On Nov 3, 2016, at 5:08 PM, Sgeo  wrote:
>
> What's going on with BlogNomic? http://blognomic.com/archive/twelve_times_
> twelve_midnight
>
> Is this just the new theme, risking BlogNomic's existence?
>
>
> I know nothing of BlogNomic, or of its history, so I can’t comment on the
> context of that proposal, only on the content and tenor of the top few
> posts. Voting does seem to be flowing against the idea that BlogNomic
> should end, but it is remarkable that such a proposal would be seriously
> considered.
>
> There is a clue in this post[0], by current Emperor Brendan, and in this
> prior proposal[1]
>
> [0] http://blognomic.com/archive/the_last_dynasty
> [1] http://blognomic.com/archive/believe_in_tangerine
>
> BlogNomic’s current Emperor is likely a millennialist or catastrophist of
> some stripe; the rhetoric in his (I presume) Ascension Address reminds me a
> lot of authoritarians the world over, condemning his own people as having a
> mere shadow of their former glory with one hand while promising the future
> with the other.
>
> He appears to be testing BlogNomic’s resolve: the “Believe in Tangerine”
> proposal “arms" a prior proposal, suggesting that BlogNomic’s current
> players have now twice accepted his proposals, even where they would grant
> him more control over the game. I assume he’s done some campaigning and
> platform advertising somewhere, but I don’t see where.
>
> On the theory that BlogNomic has been colonized by a party bent on
> destroying the game, is there any aid we can extend to the other players?
>
> -o
>
>