DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] Applause
Damn I was going to make the worst 'art' in the world to get that ribbon On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 5:42 PM Aris Merchant via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I retract this proposal. I'm hoping I can do better. > > -Aris > > On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 2:06 AM Aris Merchant via agora-business > wrote: > > > > If we come up with improved phrasing, I'll withdraw this version. > > > > I submit the following proposal. > > > > -Aris > > --- > > Title: Applause > > Adoption index: 2.0 > > Author: Aris > > Co-author(s): G. > > > > > > [Who wants to have their art peer reviewed?] > > > > Amend Rule 1367, "Degrees", by replacing: > > > > It SHOULD only be awarded for the publication of an original > > thesis of scholarly worth (including responses to peer-review), > > published with explicit intent to qualify for a degree. The > > Herald SHOULD coordinate the peer-review process and the > > awarding of degrees. > > > > with: > > > > It SHOULD only be awarded for the publication of an original > > thesis of scholarly or artistic worth, published with explicit > > intent to qualify for a degree, that has passed through review > > and been judged worthy of the degree in question. > > > > For scholarly degrees, the review process should consist of > peer-review, > > with responses by the candidate. For artistic degrees, the review > > process should consist of the reviewers applauding the candidate > > and pointing out the virtues of the thesis. The Herald SHOULD > > coordinate the review process and the awarding of degrees. > > > > [I'll note that "scholarly or artistic" is a bit clunky; if someone > > comes up with a substantial improvement, that would be lovely, > > and we can make that a new version of the proposal.] > > > > Amend Rule 2496, Rewards, by replacing: > > > > * Having a Thesis pass peer-review and be granted a Degree based > > on its merit: 20 boatloads of coins (Herald) > > > > with: > > > > * Having a Thesis pass review and be granted a Degree based > > on its merit: 20 boatloads of coins (Herald) >
DIS: Re: BUS: Card selling contract attn notary ALL TAKE NOTE
I amend the contract by adding to the end. "The buyer can act on R. Lee's behalf to transfer the bought card and for no other reason." On Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 11:21 AM N. S. via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I create the following contract > > Title: Lee's Card Shop > > Anyone may be a party to this. R. Lee is selling cards at the following > prices. This contract causes em to automatically transfer any card that e > owns of the specified type to the buyer if the buyer transfers R. Lee the > specified amount of coins. > > Victory: 4000 coins > Participation: 800 coins > Voting: 120 coins > Justice: 80 coins >
DIS: Standing up, then crouching slightly
I become interested in judging occasional CFJs -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: [Proposal] Determinacy is a Good Thing
On Fri, Jun 11, 2021, 4:10 AM Falsifian via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Sun, Jun 06, 2021 at 08:36:07AM -0700, Kerim Aydin via agora-business > wrote: > > > > On 6/5/2021 4:55 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote: > > > I submit the following proposal. > > > > > > -Aris > > > --- > > > Title: Determinacy is a Good Thing > > > Adoption index: 1.7 > > > Author: Aris > > > Co-authors: > > > > I intend to flip the above-referenced proposal's class to Democratic, > with > > 2 Agoran Consent. > > I support. > > -- > Falsifian > I support >
DIS: Birthday tournament
This has been discussed on the discord a bit but I think we should still discuss things on-list. It's my understanding that nch is planning to run a Survivor-style tournament? -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: [DoV] Dodging an obstacle
Nobody's congratulated you on the win but congratulations on a relatively 'normal' win! Good job. On Sat, Jun 5, 2021 at 1:46 AM Falsifian via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I grant one Victory Point to myself (using my Legacy focus). > > I pay a set of 4 Victory Cards to gain 10 Victory Points. > > For the sole purpose of transferring the Trust (as defined under the > Obstructive Pooling contract), I transfer 8 Victory Points to ATMunn. > > I transfer 8 Victory Points to the Obstructive Pooling contract, > thereby gaining 80 Decipoints. > > As allowed by the Obstructive Pooling contract, I act on ATMunn's > behalf to transfer 8 Victory Points from ATMunn to myself. > > If my math is right, I now have 23 Victory Points, ATMunn has 0, and > the next-highest player balance is 3. > > I Take Over the Economy. > > -- > Falsifian > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: [Proto] SLR Ratification
I don't remember the ruleset being read even once more than usual in RTR week On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:48 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 1/8/2021 9:57 PM, JTAC via agora-discussion wrote: > > On 9/1/2021 10:52 am, Aris Merchant via agora-discussion wrote: > >> Ratify the Short Logical Ruleset published on the 1st December, 2020, > available > >> here [1]. > >> > >> [1] > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-official/2020-December/014441.html > >> > > Why are we not ratifying the version on the 31st of December instead? > > > > Because of issues like the longstanding error pointed out in CFJ 3889, I > don't think any "immediately recent" SLR should be ratified - I think the > approach should be "ratify the one of a few months ago provided no errors > have been found since then". > > For example, the last ratification is listed as 8 May 2019, but it was > ratifying the ruleset published on 24 Feb 2019 (side note: the SLR's > current last ratification date should probably list the ruleset > publication date of 24 Feb 2019 as being more important than the > ratification proposal resolution on 8 may, though both may be worth > keeping track of). > > Since we just found the CFJ 3889 error and can't ratify one from earlier > in the fall, we should wait a month or so at least before ratifying a > December-dated one? > > I don't think things like Read the Ruleset Week generally are any better > at catching actual errors than other times. > > -G. > > -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: ALT: Definitely not an apathy intent
On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 9:27 AM Gaelan Steele via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > On Dec 28, 2020, at 11:34 AM, Jason Cobb wrote: > > > > I intend, without objection, to declare apathy, specifying the set of > > players that are subscribed to this list (ALT). > > > > -- > > Jason Cobb > > > > Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason > > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. > > View/Reply Online (#17): https://agoranomic.groups.io/g/main/message/17 > > Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/79276157/1487723 > > Group Owner: main+ow...@agoranomic.groups.io > > Unsubscribe: > https://agoranomic.groups.io/g/main/leave/3339860/345837368/xyzzy [ > g...@canishe.com] > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > > > > > I object. > > The only players who aren't subscribed to ALT are fairly new, and "haha > everyone else won without you through sneaky list" isn't a great first > impression. > > In any case, I'm not sure that was clear enough to work. > > Notice of Honor: > -1 Gaelan (spoilsport) > +1 Jason (consolation prize) > > Gaelan I actually don't think I'm subscribed to it (although I also am not sure I'm a player) -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3891 Assigned to G.
Coins are fungible but that doesn't mean they don't exist as separate singular entities. Individual coins (obviously) exist in real life too and they are still (obviously) fungible. On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 7:20 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-official < agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > The below CFJ is 3891. I assign it to G.. > > status: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/#3891 > > === CFJ 3891 === > > In the above statement, ATMunn transferred a coin to Aris. > > == > > Caller:ATMunn > > Judge: G. > > == > > History: > > Called by ATMunn: 07 Dec 2020 20:11:31 > Assigned to G.: [now] > > == > > Caller's Evidence [the 'above statement']: > > On 12/7/2020 12:11 PM, ATMunn via agora-business wrote: > > > > I transfer the coin that has been in my possession the longest to Aris. > > > Caller's Arguments: > > Arguments FOR: Since all coins are fungible, it doesn't matter which one > is transferred; it only matters that one was transferred. > > Arguments AGAINST: Because all coins are fungible, you can't refer to a > specific one to transfer it. > > == > > -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3890 Assigned to Aris (the ANCS approach)
And nobody 'tosses out the text' when it becomes ambiguous. Instead, they use the four factors to come to one of the permissible constructions of the text. On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 7:39 PM N. S. wrote: > No no. The text is not a factor: it is dispositive. By naming it "the five > factors" you give the false impression that the text is merely one of five > usable tools whereas according to the rules the text is in fact the only > usable tool as long as it's clear. > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 7:26 PM Aris Merchant via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 6:20 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-official >> wrote: >> > >> > [Because ANCS nomic is the best nomic] >> > >> > I call a CFJ on the following statement: >> > To follow R217, judges SHOULD use "game custom, common sense, past >> > judgements, and consideration of the best interests of the game" as a >> > strict checklist when interpreting inconsistencies in the rules. >> > >> > >> > As Arbitor: The above is CFJ 3890. I assign it to Aris. >> > >> > =The Arbitor >> >> Apologies, this deadline crept up on me. I've been quite busy with a >> major paper due soon as well as the impending Thanksgiving holiday. I >> file a motion to extend the above case. >> >> I didn't have a draft when I started this post, and I was supposed to >> write an outline at least. I've ended up with some horrific >> monstrosity part way between an outline and a first draft. Enjoy. >> >> -- >> I intend to rule FALSE. My reasoning is that game custom, common >> sense, past judgements, and consideration of the best interest of the >> game are all tools. If the rules' text fails to resolve the case, >> these additional tools are deployed to help determine what the rules >> mean. >> >> It's like you're assembling a bunch of pieces of wood. Sometimes the >> pieces will just slot together nicely, but when they don't, you can >> pull out your trusty toolbox, containing a hammer and a saw, among >> other tools. There's no expectation that you list out all of the tools >> and say "the saw is inapplicable; the hammer is the relevant tool for >> this job." You could, I suppose, but it would be a bit weird. >> Moreover, by listing out all of them, you may feel pressure to use all >> of the tools that you *can* use, regardless of whether it's a tool you >> *should* use in this case. >> >> It is my opinion that listing out all of the factors should be >> considered harmful. I think that judges are often inclined to sum up >> the factors rather than reflecting on which is the most applicable to >> their specific case. However, I do not believe it is within the scope >> of my adjudication of this case to tell judges how to go about writing >> their opinions. Yet, I do believe that it is within my purview to give >> guidelines on judicial reasoning, as this is one type of >> interpretation. Interpretation should use the tools that are most >> appropriate for a given case. >> >> A judge is a craftsman — two judges are unlikely to write the same >> opinion, even if they come to the same conclusion. Accordingly, judges >> should, to interpret the rules correctly, use the tools that in their >> artisanal judgement are the best fit. And the tools they have are >> actually surprisingly broad. For a start, they're given the text >> itself — any reasoned means of interpretation that considers only the >> text, rather than outside factors, is fair game. And if they want to >> consider outside factors, they are given a broad range to choose from >> — they are given knowledge of the game's past and more specifically of >> the interpretations of prior judges, they are given their instincts as >> a person, which are known as common sense, at least insofar as they >> are shared among many people, and they are given the explicit license >> to consider the best answer to the question from a policy-making >> perspective. Frankly, it is hard to imagine a reasoned mode of >> interpretation that cannot be reduced to these tools. Judges are free >> to apply their own life experience in producing unique answers, as >> long as their reasoning is not so idiosyncratic that it will not be >> accepted by others. If judges do err, the rules provide ways to >> overturn their decisions. >> >> As a final note, I'd like to respond to the phrase "four factors", >> which has become the standard form of address for these noble >> instruments. It's wrong. It's literally factually incorrect and I beg >> people to stop using it. The biggest problem is that it discards the >> text. Rule 217 provides five tools, including the text. Tossing out >> the text as soon as there it is ambiguous is incompatible with what >> Rule 217 states. To be fair, I'm not sure anyone actually does this, >> but some judge might well have been misled by the concept of the four >> factors into ignoring a textual solution e might otherwise have >> chosen. Now, to be clear, I'm not saying that people should always
Re: DIS: Name change
one of us, i guess On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 5:18 PM Natalie Kilhamn via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Thanks! > Yes, that'd be nice. I don't mind keeping the old address if you'd like to > for archival/historical purposes, but it'd be nice if the new one was > there. > > - Tiger > > On Sun, 22 Nov 2020 at 22:20, Falsifian via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 08:13:27PM +0100, Jonatan Kilhamn via > > agora-discussion wrote: > > > I'm still not a player, and have no concrete plans for ever playing > > again. > > > But I do feel a great comfort from seeing all the Agora traffic > chugging > > > along in the Forums tab of my gmail, so now that I'm legally changing > my > > > name and migrating to another account, I'm making sure to sign up with > > the > > > new email as well. > > > > > > I don't know if the current ruleset has any protection of usernames at > > all, > > > let alone those of previous players (I assume not), but it seems to me > in > > > the right spirit to send one last email from the old address, just to > > > deliberately create a paper trail linking my old address to the new > one. > > If > > > I ever start playing again I'll be using Tiger, and I wouldn't want > > anyone > > > doubting that I'm the same person. So: future emails from > > > natalie.kilh...@gmail.com, signed Tiger, are indeed from me, the same > > > biological person as sent all Tiger's emails from > > jonatan.kilh...@gmail.com. > > > And in the miniscule chance this ever becomes relevant, let's muddy the > > > waters by doing it only in agora-discussion. > > > > > > (By the way, I'm coming out as a trans woman, yay!) > > > > > > Thanks to Agora for being a wonderful thing to exist in the world! > > > Best regards, > > > Natalie > > > > > > -Tiger > > > > Congratulations! > > > > jonatan.kilh...@gmail.com does appear in my monthly Registrar report of > > past players. Would you like me to update it for future reports? (The > > rules don't say anything about email addresses in that report.) Here's > > the latest report as an example: > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-official@agoranomic.org/msg10771.html > > > > -- > > Falsifian > > > -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3890 Assigned to Aris (the ANCS approach)
No no. The text is not a factor: it is dispositive. By naming it "the five factors" you give the false impression that the text is merely one of five usable tools whereas according to the rules the text is in fact the only usable tool as long as it's clear. On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 7:26 PM Aris Merchant via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 6:20 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-official > wrote: > > > > [Because ANCS nomic is the best nomic] > > > > I call a CFJ on the following statement: > > To follow R217, judges SHOULD use "game custom, common sense, past > > judgements, and consideration of the best interests of the game" as a > > strict checklist when interpreting inconsistencies in the rules. > > > > > > As Arbitor: The above is CFJ 3890. I assign it to Aris. > > > > =The Arbitor > > Apologies, this deadline crept up on me. I've been quite busy with a > major paper due soon as well as the impending Thanksgiving holiday. I > file a motion to extend the above case. > > I didn't have a draft when I started this post, and I was supposed to > write an outline at least. I've ended up with some horrific > monstrosity part way between an outline and a first draft. Enjoy. > > -- > I intend to rule FALSE. My reasoning is that game custom, common > sense, past judgements, and consideration of the best interest of the > game are all tools. If the rules' text fails to resolve the case, > these additional tools are deployed to help determine what the rules > mean. > > It's like you're assembling a bunch of pieces of wood. Sometimes the > pieces will just slot together nicely, but when they don't, you can > pull out your trusty toolbox, containing a hammer and a saw, among > other tools. There's no expectation that you list out all of the tools > and say "the saw is inapplicable; the hammer is the relevant tool for > this job." You could, I suppose, but it would be a bit weird. > Moreover, by listing out all of them, you may feel pressure to use all > of the tools that you *can* use, regardless of whether it's a tool you > *should* use in this case. > > It is my opinion that listing out all of the factors should be > considered harmful. I think that judges are often inclined to sum up > the factors rather than reflecting on which is the most applicable to > their specific case. However, I do not believe it is within the scope > of my adjudication of this case to tell judges how to go about writing > their opinions. Yet, I do believe that it is within my purview to give > guidelines on judicial reasoning, as this is one type of > interpretation. Interpretation should use the tools that are most > appropriate for a given case. > > A judge is a craftsman — two judges are unlikely to write the same > opinion, even if they come to the same conclusion. Accordingly, judges > should, to interpret the rules correctly, use the tools that in their > artisanal judgement are the best fit. And the tools they have are > actually surprisingly broad. For a start, they're given the text > itself — any reasoned means of interpretation that considers only the > text, rather than outside factors, is fair game. And if they want to > consider outside factors, they are given a broad range to choose from > — they are given knowledge of the game's past and more specifically of > the interpretations of prior judges, they are given their instincts as > a person, which are known as common sense, at least insofar as they > are shared among many people, and they are given the explicit license > to consider the best answer to the question from a policy-making > perspective. Frankly, it is hard to imagine a reasoned mode of > interpretation that cannot be reduced to these tools. Judges are free > to apply their own life experience in producing unique answers, as > long as their reasoning is not so idiosyncratic that it will not be > accepted by others. If judges do err, the rules provide ways to > overturn their decisions. > > As a final note, I'd like to respond to the phrase "four factors", > which has become the standard form of address for these noble > instruments. It's wrong. It's literally factually incorrect and I beg > people to stop using it. The biggest problem is that it discards the > text. Rule 217 provides five tools, including the text. Tossing out > the text as soon as there it is ambiguous is incompatible with what > Rule 217 states. To be fair, I'm not sure anyone actually does this, > but some judge might well have been misled by the concept of the four > factors into ignoring a textual solution e might otherwise have > chosen. Now, to be clear, I'm not saying that people should always use > just the text, only that they have the option of doing so, even if the > text is somewhat unclear. Sometimes the text really is the best tool > for the job. Sometimes it isn't. Also, the term "factors" tends to > imply somewhat that they are more like criteria than implements. I'd > prefer
Re: DIS: multi-list test
Got it twice On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 6:18 AM Falsifian via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > This message contains no game actions. > > Testing: do people subscribed to both lists get the message just once, > and if so, which list does it end up arriving by? > > -- > Falsifian > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Birthday
i take it back not a transfer On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:02 PM N. S. wrote: > Well it works anyway because anyone can transfer coins to anyone else > already > > On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:01 PM shelvacu via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> nttpf >> >> On 8/19/20 8:57 PM, shelvacu via agora-discussion wrote: >> > Happy birthday! I grant you 3 coins >> > >> > Disclaimer: I'm not 100% sure this works, the agoran day may have >> > already passed. >> > >> > On 8/19/20 1:20 PM, Nathan S via agora-business wrote: >> >> Hello! >> >> I would like to announce my 0th Agoran Birthday! Included below is a >> >> slice of ASCII cake for you to enjoy! >> >> >> >> >> >> ( >> >> >> >>(&) >> >> # >> >> _ .--"#"`--._ >> >> * .` # `. ~ * >> >>:#: >> >> ~ :. .: * >> >> * | `-.__ __.-' | * >> >>| `"""` | * >> >> * | |_||\ | )| )\ / | >> >>| | ||-\| | | | ~ >> >>~ * | | * >> >>| | )|| )-|-|_|| \|\ \ / | * >> >>*_.-| | )|| \ | | || /|-\ | |-._ >> >> .' '. .' `. * >> >> : `-.__ To: Nathan__.-' : >> >>`. `"""` .' >> >> `-.._ _..-' >> >> `---` >> >> Cake Art: JGS >> > > > -- > From R. Lee > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Birthday
Well it works anyway because anyone can transfer coins to anyone else already On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:01 PM shelvacu via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > nttpf > > On 8/19/20 8:57 PM, shelvacu via agora-discussion wrote: > > Happy birthday! I grant you 3 coins > > > > Disclaimer: I'm not 100% sure this works, the agoran day may have > > already passed. > > > > On 8/19/20 1:20 PM, Nathan S via agora-business wrote: > >> Hello! > >> I would like to announce my 0th Agoran Birthday! Included below is a > >> slice of ASCII cake for you to enjoy! > >> > >> > >> ( > >> > >>(&) > >> # > >> _ .--"#"`--._ > >> * .` # `. ~ * > >>:#: > >> ~ :. .: * > >> * | `-.__ __.-' | * > >>| `"""` | * > >> * | |_||\ | )| )\ / | > >>| | ||-\| | | | ~ > >>~ * | | * > >>| | )|| )-|-|_|| \|\ \ / | * > >>*_.-| | )|| \ | | || /|-\ | |-._ > >> .' '. .' `. * > >> : `-.__ To: Nathan__.-' : > >>`. `"""` .' > >> `-.._ _..-' > >> `---` > >> Cake Art: JGS > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] [Weekly Report] Forbes 486
oh lol, get better names guys
On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 6:16 PM Reuben Staley via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> On 2020-08-10 02:10, N. S. via agora-business wrote:
> > COE: This report lists Fred and Gaelan as separate entities, they are the
> > same (I don't think Fred has any assets though, e cannot have got a
> welcome
> > package as gaelan was already registered)
>
> Denied. I'm pretty sure that Fred is just a player who hasn't interacted
> very much. I think you're thinking of Greg.
>
> --
> Trigon
>
> I’m always happy to become a party to contracts.
> I LOVE SPAGHETTI
> transfer Jason one coin
> nch was here
> I hereby
> don't... trust... the dragon...
> don't... trust... the dragon...
> Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this
>
> The following text comprises a public message:
> {{{ DISCLAIMER: There are no game actions in this message. }}}
>
--
>From R. Lee
Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft
Im sorry, the title is why are we passing these On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 5:55 PM N. S. wrote: > COE (unofficial of course): The proposal pool is missing my proposal > entitled something like "can you do this every week" (the scam one) > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 8:16 AM Aris Merchant via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> Here's my weekly draft. >> >> -Aris >> --- >> PROMOTOR'S REPORT AS OF RIGHT NOW >> >> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating a referendum on it, >> and removing it from the proposal pool. For this decision, the vote >> collector >> is the Assessor, the quorum is 6, the voting method is AI-majority, and >> the >> valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are >> conditional votes). >> >> ID Author(s)AITitle >> >> --- >> 8488*^ Falsifian, Jason, omd3.0 Empty the escalator v1 >> >> Interesting economics >> >> Author(s)AITitle >> >> --- >> Jason, Trigon1.0 Interesting economics >> Jason3.0 Unscoped RWO >> Jason3.0 Functional Emergency Regulations >> >> >> Legend: * : Democratic proposal. >> # : Ordinary proposal, unset chamber. >> e : Economy ministry proposal. >> f : Efficiency ministry proposal. >> j : Justice ministry proposal. >> l : Legislation ministry proposal. >> p : Participation ministry proposal. >> ^ : Sponsored proposal. >> >> The full text of the aforementioned proposal(s) is included below. Where >> the information shown below differs from the information shown above, >> the information shown above shall control. >> >> // >> ID: 8488 >> Title: Empty the escalator v1 >> Adoption index: 3.0 >> Author: Falsifian >> Co-authors: Jason, omd >> >> >> Amend Rule 2577 by adding the sentence "Attempts to destroy no assets >> are successful." before the sentence that begins "An indestructible >> asset". >> >> Amend Rule 2577 by adding the sentence "Attempts to transfer no assets >> are successful." before the sentence that begins "A fixed asset". >> >> Amend Rule 2579 by deleting the paragraph that ends with "0 or empty fee". >> >> // >> Title: Interesting economics >> Adoption index: 1.0 >> Author: Jason >> Co-authors: >> >> >> Amend Rule 2624 by appending the following sentence to the first >> paragraph: "The type of card with the fewest existing instances is >> associated with the Ministry of Economy." >> >> // >> Title: Unscoped RWO >> Adoption index: 3.0 >> Author: Jason >> Co-authors: >> >> >> Amend Rule 2202 by replacing the paragraph beginning "A player CAN" with >> the following: "A player CAN, without objection, ratify a specified >> public document." >> >> // >> Title: Functional Emergency Regulations >> Adoption index: 3.0 >> Author: Jason >> Co-authors: >> >> >> Amend Rule 2614 by appending the following sentence to the paragraph >> beginning "The Prime Minister CAN, in an emergency message and with 3 >> Agoran consent": "To the extent explicitly permitted by this rule, >> Emergency Regulations are always taking effect." >> >> [Right now, Emergency Regulations CAN do some stuff, but they never >> actually take effect to do it.] >> >> // >> > > > -- > From R. Lee > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft
COE (unofficial of course): The proposal pool is missing my proposal entitled something like "can you do this every week" (the scam one) On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 8:16 AM Aris Merchant via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Here's my weekly draft. > > -Aris > --- > PROMOTOR'S REPORT AS OF RIGHT NOW > > I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating a referendum on it, > and removing it from the proposal pool. For this decision, the vote > collector > is the Assessor, the quorum is 6, the voting method is AI-majority, and the > valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are > conditional votes). > > ID Author(s)AITitle > --- > 8488*^ Falsifian, Jason, omd3.0 Empty the escalator v1 > > Interesting economics > > Author(s)AITitle > --- > Jason, Trigon1.0 Interesting economics > Jason3.0 Unscoped RWO > Jason3.0 Functional Emergency Regulations > > > Legend: * : Democratic proposal. > # : Ordinary proposal, unset chamber. > e : Economy ministry proposal. > f : Efficiency ministry proposal. > j : Justice ministry proposal. > l : Legislation ministry proposal. > p : Participation ministry proposal. > ^ : Sponsored proposal. > > The full text of the aforementioned proposal(s) is included below. Where > the information shown below differs from the information shown above, > the information shown above shall control. > > // > ID: 8488 > Title: Empty the escalator v1 > Adoption index: 3.0 > Author: Falsifian > Co-authors: Jason, omd > > > Amend Rule 2577 by adding the sentence "Attempts to destroy no assets > are successful." before the sentence that begins "An indestructible asset". > > Amend Rule 2577 by adding the sentence "Attempts to transfer no assets > are successful." before the sentence that begins "A fixed asset". > > Amend Rule 2579 by deleting the paragraph that ends with "0 or empty fee". > > // > Title: Interesting economics > Adoption index: 1.0 > Author: Jason > Co-authors: > > > Amend Rule 2624 by appending the following sentence to the first > paragraph: "The type of card with the fewest existing instances is > associated with the Ministry of Economy." > > // > Title: Unscoped RWO > Adoption index: 3.0 > Author: Jason > Co-authors: > > > Amend Rule 2202 by replacing the paragraph beginning "A player CAN" with > the following: "A player CAN, without objection, ratify a specified > public document." > > // > Title: Functional Emergency Regulations > Adoption index: 3.0 > Author: Jason > Co-authors: > > > Amend Rule 2614 by appending the following sentence to the paragraph > beginning "The Prime Minister CAN, in an emergency message and with 3 > Agoran consent": "To the extent explicitly permitted by this rule, > Emergency Regulations are always taking effect." > > [Right now, Emergency Regulations CAN do some stuff, but they never > actually take effect to do it.] > > // > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Badge Problems
just ignore those brackets lol not sure what theyre about On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 10:28 PM N. S. wrote: > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 9:52 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via > agora-discussion wrote: > >> On 8/3/20 7:48 AM, N. S. via agora-discussion wrote: >> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:57 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via >> > agora-discussion wrote: >> > >> >> On 8/3/20 3:48 AM, Aris Merchant via agora-discussion wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 10:47 AM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via >> >>> agora-business wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> I also plan to award the badge for this tournament in the next few >> days. >> >>>> I would be interested in receiving suggestions for titles. I am >> >>>> currently planning to award it to ATMunn, G., Jason, Aris, >> Falsifian, R. >> >>>> Lee, omd, Trigon, Ben (Aris's friend), Claire (Aris's friend), and >> >>>> myself. If you can think of anyone else to whom it should be awarded, >> >>>> please let me know. >> >>> >> >>> I was trying to put discussion of this topic off, but fate or the >> >>> universe or whatever appear to have other things in mind. Ben and >> >>> Claire are plural, and thus probably constitute one person for the >> >>> purposes of current Agoran law. For a general primer on plurality, see >> >>> this [1]. For an etiquette primer, see this [2]. Let me know if you >> >>> have any questions, as I am reasonably well informed about plurality >> >>> in general. >> >>> >> >>> For now, unless we want to do an immediate legal change, the simplest >> >>> solution is probably to award one badge to the two of them. I can ask >> >>> for their preferences on what they'd like to go down as on the scroll. >> >>> >> >>> [1] https://morethanone.info/ >> >>> [2] http://www.exunoplures.org/main/articles/rules/ >> >>> >> >>> -Aris >> >>> >> >> >> >> This is an interesting question. Under our current rules, I think they >> >> would clearly be treated as a single person; however, I think that our >> >> change from "organism" to "entity" makes the question much less clear. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate >> >> Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth >> >> >> > >> > i personally wouldn't be in favour of changing the rules to allow one >> human >> > being to count as multiple persons. >> > >> >> Well, what do you define as a human being? They share one body, but each >> of them has a distinct personhood and identity. If we make it about >> physical characteristics, that could also raise questions about >> conjoined twins. >> >> -- >> >> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate >> Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth >> > > by human being i meant biological human body (conjoined twins, at least > those separately capable of communication) have two biological heads and > brains. > -- > From R. Lee > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Badge Problems
On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 9:52 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion wrote: > On 8/3/20 7:48 AM, N. S. via agora-discussion wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:57 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via > > agora-discussion wrote: > > > >> On 8/3/20 3:48 AM, Aris Merchant via agora-discussion wrote: > >>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 10:47 AM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via > >>> agora-business wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I also plan to award the badge for this tournament in the next few > days. > >>>> I would be interested in receiving suggestions for titles. I am > >>>> currently planning to award it to ATMunn, G., Jason, Aris, Falsifian, > R. > >>>> Lee, omd, Trigon, Ben (Aris's friend), Claire (Aris's friend), and > >>>> myself. If you can think of anyone else to whom it should be awarded, > >>>> please let me know. > >>> > >>> I was trying to put discussion of this topic off, but fate or the > >>> universe or whatever appear to have other things in mind. Ben and > >>> Claire are plural, and thus probably constitute one person for the > >>> purposes of current Agoran law. For a general primer on plurality, see > >>> this [1]. For an etiquette primer, see this [2]. Let me know if you > >>> have any questions, as I am reasonably well informed about plurality > >>> in general. > >>> > >>> For now, unless we want to do an immediate legal change, the simplest > >>> solution is probably to award one badge to the two of them. I can ask > >>> for their preferences on what they'd like to go down as on the scroll. > >>> > >>> [1] https://morethanone.info/ > >>> [2] http://www.exunoplures.org/main/articles/rules/ > >>> > >>> -Aris > >>> > >> > >> This is an interesting question. Under our current rules, I think they > >> would clearly be treated as a single person; however, I think that our > >> change from "organism" to "entity" makes the question much less clear. > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate > >> Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth > >> > > > > i personally wouldn't be in favour of changing the rules to allow one > human > > being to count as multiple persons. > > > > Well, what do you define as a human being? They share one body, but each > of them has a distinct personhood and identity. If we make it about > physical characteristics, that could also raise questions about > conjoined twins. > > -- > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate > Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth > by human being i meant biological human body (conjoined twins, at least those separately capable of communication) have two biological heads and brains. -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Badge Problems
On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:57 PM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion wrote: > On 8/3/20 3:48 AM, Aris Merchant via agora-discussion wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 10:47 AM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via > > agora-business wrote: > >> > >> I also plan to award the badge for this tournament in the next few days. > >> I would be interested in receiving suggestions for titles. I am > >> currently planning to award it to ATMunn, G., Jason, Aris, Falsifian, R. > >> Lee, omd, Trigon, Ben (Aris's friend), Claire (Aris's friend), and > >> myself. If you can think of anyone else to whom it should be awarded, > >> please let me know. > > > > I was trying to put discussion of this topic off, but fate or the > > universe or whatever appear to have other things in mind. Ben and > > Claire are plural, and thus probably constitute one person for the > > purposes of current Agoran law. For a general primer on plurality, see > > this [1]. For an etiquette primer, see this [2]. Let me know if you > > have any questions, as I am reasonably well informed about plurality > > in general. > > > > For now, unless we want to do an immediate legal change, the simplest > > solution is probably to award one badge to the two of them. I can ask > > for their preferences on what they'd like to go down as on the scroll. > > > > [1] https://morethanone.info/ > > [2] http://www.exunoplures.org/main/articles/rules/ > > > > -Aris > > > > This is an interesting question. Under our current rules, I think they > would clearly be treated as a single person; however, I think that our > change from "organism" to "entity" makes the question much less clear. > > -- > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate > Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth > i personally wouldn't be in favour of changing the rules to allow one human being to count as multiple persons. -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Badge Problems (was: Re: BUS: [Diplonomic 2020] BT3 Intent to Announce Winners, Badge, and Clean-up)
i wonder if em or them is proper (in agora grammar?) On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:49 PM Aris Merchant via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 10:47 AM Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via > agora-business wrote: > > > > I also plan to award the badge for this tournament in the next few days. > > I would be interested in receiving suggestions for titles. I am > > currently planning to award it to ATMunn, G., Jason, Aris, Falsifian, R. > > Lee, omd, Trigon, Ben (Aris's friend), Claire (Aris's friend), and > > myself. If you can think of anyone else to whom it should be awarded, > > please let me know. > > I was trying to put discussion of this topic off, but fate or the > universe or whatever appear to have other things in mind. Ben and > Claire are plural, and thus probably constitute one person for the > purposes of current Agoran law. For a general primer on plurality, see > this [1]. For an etiquette primer, see this [2]. Let me know if you > have any questions, as I am reasonably well informed about plurality > in general. > > For now, unless we want to do an immediate legal change, the simplest > solution is probably to award one badge to the two of them. I can ask > for their preferences on what they'd like to go down as on the scroll. > > [1] https://morethanone.info/ > [2] http://www.exunoplures.org/main/articles/rules/ > > -Aris > -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8478-8487
>AGAINST until and unless G. contacts me separately Conditional impossible to evaluate On Mon., 3 Aug. 2020, 8:02 am Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business, wrote: > I vote as follows: > > On 8/2/20 5:58 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-official wrote: > > ID Author(s)AITitle > > > --- > > 8478*^ Jason, nix, G. 3.0 another talismans fix > FOR > > 8479j^ nix, Aris, PSS, ATMunn 1.7 Competitive Finger Pointing v2 > FOR > > 8480e^ Jason1.0 Generic welcome package fix > FOR > > 8481*^ Trigon, Aris 3.0 If it's not pending we don't care > v2 > FOR > > 8482f^ Trigon, ATMunn 1.0 Offices are complex v2 > FOR > > 8483l^ G. 1.0 a minor adjustment > AGAINST until and unless G. contacts me separately. > > 8484*^ Murphy, CB, Aris 3.0 Clarify asset ownership > FOR > > 8485*^ Gaelan, Aris 3.0 Eternal Personhood > FOR > > 8486* Jason, omd 3.0 Fee-based de-escalation > FOR > > 8487*^ Murphy, R. Lee 3.0 Simpler ribbon switches > FOR >
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3873 assigned to G. and judged FALSE
YES LET'S DELETE IT On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 8:43 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 7/30/2020 2:02 PM, Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion wrote: > > > > > >> On Jul 30, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Kerim Aydin via agora-official < > agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> > >> Holding with that precedent, "interested in judging" is not regulated > due > >> to having a recordkeepor, and can be determined by a common-sense > >> application of the common defininition of the term. E.g. by initially > >> expressing interest to the Arbitor, and being removed either by their > own > >> professed lack of interest, or if their failure to judge without > >> explanation shows that they lack interest. > > > > While I think this is the “correct” ruling—in that it’s consistent with > precedent, and the same ruling I would have made if I knew about that > CFJ—it also seems “wrong” in that it’s inconsistent with legislative intent > behind regulated actions rules. It’d probably be a good idea to propose a > rephrasing of the regulated actions rules, possibly with some sort of > “explicitly described as unregulated” exception so we can keep the informal > bench. > > > > Gaelan > > > > Yah I agree. When doing the research on the first cfj I had no idea which > side I'd end up on and thought it was an unintuitive use of the term that > could use a fix, but didn't get around to it. One question: is there > anything that we actually "recordkeep" (in the broad sense) that we want > to be regulated, but we don't also "limit, allow, enable, or permit" or > "describe the circumstances under which it would succeed or fail"? In > other words, do we actually lose any protections if we delete the > recordkeepor clause? > > -G. > -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: [Diplonomic 2020] BT2 Removal of R. Lee
F On Sat., 25 Jul. 2020, 11:34 pm Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-business, wrote: > As France has been eliminated, it is with great sadness that I cause R. > Lee to cease to be a Contestant in the 2020 Birthday Tournament, > pursuant to Regulation BT2. > -- > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate > Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth >
DIS: OFF: PUtting Bargains on the Barrel
I put the below bargains on the barrel. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:08 PM N. S. via agora-official < agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > So this gives the following four bargains, all of which I intend to put on > the barrel with notice > > Bargain 1, Payout 7 > Cards: Voting, Legislative, Victory, Legislative, Justice, Voting > > Bargain 2, payout 10 > Cards: Victory, Victory, Voting, Victory, Victory, Legislative > > Bargain 3 payout 8 > Cards: Victory, Justice, Justice, Voting, Legislative, Legislative > > Bargain 4 payout 3 > Cards: Voting, Legislative, Victory, Justice, Justice, Legislative > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:03 PM Dice Server -1trthsb- < > diceser...@dicelog.com> wrote: > > > > > This is an automatic message. > > > > This message was generated by > > > > edwardostra...@gmail.com > > > > through the "hamete virtual dice server" at https://dicelog.com > > > > Message sent to: > > > > edwardostra...@gmail.com > > agora-offic...@agoranomic.org > > > > > > Dice Roll Information: > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Dice Results: > > - > > > > Result of the throw of dice "24d4 : 4d10" : > > > > 2 + 3 + 1 + 3 + 4 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 4 + 1 + 4 + 4 + 2 + 3 + 3 + > 2 > > + 3 + 1 + 4 + 4 + 3 = 59 // 7 + 10 + 8 + 3 = 28 > > > > > > > > > > If you have any doubt, you can verify the validity of this message, > > using the Verification Number on https://dicelog.com/verif : > > > > 58kqcxh3kx > > > > or simply (*) click the URL: > > > > https://dicelog.com/verif?vnum=58kqcxh3kx > > > > > > > > (*): you may have a security warning about invalid SSL certificate, > > see why: http://dicelog.com/inc/sslwarning_en.html > > > > Regards, > > the dicelog.com team. > > > > > > -- > From R. Lee > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Coming clean
(and can you add me if possible) On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 4:06 PM N. S. wrote: > Does bot R. Lee (or V.J. Rada) have anything cool to say haha. > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:57 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> Just added CuddleBeam. There are definitely a few in there that seem >> somewhat cuddlebeam-y. >> >> Gaelan >> >> > On Jul 21, 2020, at 8:25 PM, ais523 via agora-discussion < >> agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: >> > >> > On Tue, 2020-07-21 at 19:30 -0700, Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion >> > wrote: >> >> [posting links here for the benefit of non-discord folk] >> >> >> >> Here are some messages "from" to various Agorans: >> >> https://gist.github.com/Gaelan/e6f799142f98fa64f43344257b6b0ad5 >> >> I have no idea how much the From header actually affects the output, >> >> but it's amusing reading nonetheless. >> > >> > The main correlation I notice (in this output and other output) is that >> > the bot likes to have G. object to things. >> > >> > Bot!Aris and Bot!ATMunn also have a noticeably different writing style, >> > although I'm not sure how well it matches the actual players. >> > >> > I think that Bot!Cuddlebeam might be an interesting test to run >> > (Cuddlebeam has a fairly distinctive style in real life; will the bot >> > pick it up?) >> > >> > -- >> > ais523 >> > >> >> > > -- > From R. Lee > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Coming clean
Does bot R. Lee (or V.J. Rada) have anything cool to say haha. On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 1:57 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Just added CuddleBeam. There are definitely a few in there that seem > somewhat cuddlebeam-y. > > Gaelan > > > On Jul 21, 2020, at 8:25 PM, ais523 via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > On Tue, 2020-07-21 at 19:30 -0700, Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion > > wrote: > >> [posting links here for the benefit of non-discord folk] > >> > >> Here are some messages "from" to various Agorans: > >> https://gist.github.com/Gaelan/e6f799142f98fa64f43344257b6b0ad5 > >> I have no idea how much the From header actually affects the output, > >> but it's amusing reading nonetheless. > > > > The main correlation I notice (in this output and other output) is that > > the bot likes to have G. object to things. > > > > Bot!Aris and Bot!ATMunn also have a noticeably different writing style, > > although I'm not sure how well it matches the actual players. > > > > I think that Bot!Cuddlebeam might be an interesting test to run > > (Cuddlebeam has a fairly distinctive style in real life; will the bot > > pick it up?) > > > > -- > > ais523 > > > > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Coming clean
Given that gaelan exercised much control over greg by registering him amd by curating his training data, i think gregs actions should be considered just an extention of gaelan On Wed., 22 Jul. 2020, 10:15 am Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion, < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Alright, people seem to have started to get annoyed, so I believe > continuing this experiment would violate my sacred and eternal duty to > Treat Agora Right Good. > > So, yeah. I'm Greg. Or maybe I'm sending messages on Greg's behalf. See > recent CFJs. > > As most of you accurately surmised, Greg's messages were generated by > GPT-2, specifically a version of GPT-2 fine-tuned with Agoran mailing list > logs since 2014. (The 2014 date is largely arbitrary—I might have been able > to go a bit further back, but using much more data ran into resource > limitations.) > > Greg was implemented using a combination of shell scripts, commands in my > shell history, python scripts, a Google Colaboaratory Notebook, and me > manually copy/pasting messages around. Notably, I manually pasted in and > hit send on each message. I did this primarily because figuring out email > APIs sounded like a PITA, but also because I wanted to be able to pull the > plug in case it said anything horrific. I did, however, do as much as I > could to avoid injecting my free will into the process. I operated off of > two rules: for each message to the public forum, I would run a python > script which had a 10% chance of invoking GPT-2 to generate a reply, which > I would send verbatim. (GPT-2 barfs on overly-large input data, so I > included a failsafe that automatically removed old messages in the thread > until the input was small enough to work. Some messages (like the rulesets) > were far too big on their own, resulting in the code generating "replies" > without any context.) Additionally, each day after the first (which looks > like is just going to mean "today"), I ran a script which had a 50% chance > of generating a brand-new proposal. Had I been aware of CFJ 3790, I might > have actually went to the trouble of having it send the messages > automatically after generating them. > > I did "intervene" twice: for the registration message, I specifically > asked GPT-2 to generate a message to BUS with a subject of "BUS: > Registration". In my testing, this had about a 75% chance of generating a > message that was a somewhat plausible attempt to register. Unfortunately, I > got unlucky and my first "real" attempt to generate a registration message > resulted in something completely random (a proposal, I think), so I > generated a second one and sent that one. In another case, I discovered a > bug with the large-input failsafe (turns out, GPT-2 can barf by silently > returning the input with no additional output, or by throwing an exception; > I was only handling the first case), so I fixed the bug and re-ran the > generation. In every other case, I mechanically copies messages back and > forth, following the plans I had made before sending the first message, > without attempting to impose any editorial control. > > In my testing, Greg did occasionally borrow other people's signatures, but > I didn't expect it to be this common. I considered preventing it from doing > this by removing signatures from the training data (so it would never learn > to include them), but I thought it was rare enough and amusing enough that > it wasn't worth removing. In retrospect, I probably should have removed > them. > > In my testing, I ran into several outputs that were interesting enough to > save so I could show them later. Here are links to them: > > A proposal for something vaguely resembling a functional auction mechanic: > https://gist.github.com/Gaelan/e7f7d3fc48c1abd08f0afb8049077acb > A made-up FLR excerpt containing an interesting-sounding royalty mechanic: > https://gist.github.com/Gaelan/8d092a17ed9c210685a4f4dd1e622ae2 > Another ruleset excerpt, containing the core rules of an alternate > universe Agora: > https://gist.github.com/Gaelan/ee631f9f97b53df8483e342ef36b6618 > A batch of attempts at starting new threads, with varying quality: > https://gist.github.com/Gaelan/0c027e3f5b97dab700182aa663401f47 > A fake rule called the "Register of Proposals", which looks like a > semi-plausible implementation of proposals in an alternate-universe Agora: > https://gist.github.com/Gaelan/0c6853f500799c5190a0a1ef474b098b > > I'd be happy to share the model at some point, but its a bit of a pain—I > think it's 1.5 GB—so I'm not sure how best to do that. In the meantime, I'm > happy to try out any inputs y'all are curious about. Also, From headers > were included in the training data, so I should be able to ask it to > generate message from specific Agorans. That might be fun. > > Happy to answer any questions, of course. > > Gaelan > "Nothing in a democracy is sacred, and nothing in a democracy is > sacrosanct. That's not to say it's never been broken, but it's been >
DIS: Re: OFF: [Prime Minister] New Speaker
Good job on the win On Tue., 21 Jul. 2020, 8:06 am nix via agora-official, < agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > One player is laureled, meaning I, the Prime Minister, have a job to do. > > Jason has in the course of 13 months accomplished all of the tasks > required to raise a banner. I know not if this is the fastest banner > raising ever, but it is certainly a fast one. Banner Raising is among > the most honored victory methods. Anyone capable of speedrunning Agora's > labyrinth of accomplishments is deserving of reward. > > Thus, I appoint Jason to the office of Speaker. > > -- > nix > Prime Minister, Webmastor, Platonic Pirate > >
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Diplonomic 2020] Daily Status of Play: Spring 1903 Part 2
lolol On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 3:45 PM omd via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > at 5:13 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-official > wrote: > > > It is now after 00:00 UTC on July 19, 2020, so the fifth negotiating > > phase has ended and the fifth orders phase has begun. You may now submit > > orders. Please submit orders if you haven't already. > > A Bur - Pic > A Hol - Bel > A Ruh S A Hol - Bel > F HEL - NTH > > Retreat orders, in order of preference: > > A Bur: Bel, Par, Pic, Mun > A Hol: Bel, Kie, Ruh > A Ruh: Hol, Kie, Mun (impossible?) > F HEL: Den, Kie, Hol > > > Please also > > remember to include conditional orders for building and disbanding. > > While you may not believe that such a thing will occur, I would > > recommend that you give me something anyway, just to be safe. > > Do you mean retreating? There shouldn’t be building and disbanding in > the > Spring… right? > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Dipolnomic proposal
Damn, ull never know it was me On Sun., 19 Jul. 2020, 11:02 am ATMunn via agora-discussion, < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 7/18/2020 8:58 PM, N. S. via agora-business wrote: > > I make the following diplonomic proposal named eat the rich > > > > Make the following rule 'after each build phase, the power with the most > > units has one of their units randomly destroyed' > > > > This didn't create a proposal; proposals are only anonymous now. > > -- > ATMunn > friendly neighborhood notary and Czar of Russia :) >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Dipolnomic proposal
Pss's interpretation On Sun., 19 Jul. 2020, 11:00 am omd via agora-discussion, < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > at 5:58 PM, N. S. via agora-business > wrote: > > > I make the following diplonomic proposal named eat the rich > > > > Make the following rule 'after each build phase, the power with the most > > units has one of their units randomly destroyed’ > > What if there’s a tie? >
DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3862 Assigned to R. Lee
I judge CFJ 3862 IRRELEVANT as it is overly hypothetical. On Fri., 17 Jul. 2020, 7:20 am Kerim Aydin via agora-official, < agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > The below CFJ is 3862. I assign it to R. Lee. > > status: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/#3862 > > === CFJ 3862 === > > Facts (for example, 2 + 2 = 4), for the purposes of Agoran play, > rely on some function of the collective Agoran opinion and not > necessarily some objective reality. For example, if enough Agorans > believe that 2 + 2 = 5 is true, it is then so for Agora. > > == > > Caller:Cuddlebeam > > Judge: R. Lee > > == > > History: > > Called by Cuddlebeam: 30 Jun 2020 09:41:12 > Assigned to Publius Scribonius Scholasticus: 05 Jul 2020 18:22:54 > Publius recuses emself: 12 Jul 2020 14:33:38 > Assigned to R. Lee: [now] > > == > > Caller's Arguments: > > I'm very convinced that nomic is entirely a perspectivist, subjective > game, but let's see how that holds up to Judgement. > > == > >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer something something INFINITY ENGINE [Attn. Notary, Treasuror]
Damn, I would have definitely joined the contract lmao On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 8:47 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > On 7/14/2020 3:03 PM, ATMunn via agora-discussion wrote: > > On 7/14/2020 5:58 PM, ais523 via agora-discussion wrote: > >> On Tue, 2020-07-14 at 23:54 +0200, Cuddle Beam via agora-business > >> wrote: > >>> Seeing how many active players were against this and this needs a > >>> high amount of people to work... > >> > >> For what it's worth, I think it's likely best to fix this rather than > >> leave the "loophole" open, and the best fix is probably to not allocate > >> Victory Cards after a reset (whilst continuing to allocate them to new > >> players). There's a reason that resets typically only destroy the > >> assets used to win, not create new ones. > >> > > > > Maybe when a sets victory happens, all Victory Cards and Victory Points > > are destroyed but all others remain the same? > > Part of the purpose of the reset was to occasionally relevel the whole > economy. It helps keeps things balanced. Otherwise, if (for example) > we've got the rate of pendant production too high, then after a couple > months pendants are so cheap that no one cares anymore. The alternative > is more hands-on adaptive management (e.g. things like taxes when there's > an oversupply). > > But yeah, looks like wins are set too cheaply compared to the # in > circulation at the start of each reset, so either raise the win threshold > or lower the initial handout. > > That being said, 8 people can almost always force a win if they want, just > by a proposal. The reason they don't do that all the time is it's too > boring and a boring win isn't worth doing? So maybe the contract won't > even find 7 others interested enough to trade their current possessions > for a win, so on a meta-economic level it might work out fine. > > -G. > > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: [Diplonomic] Conditional Builds
i think this was mistakenly sent here. On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:55 AM ATMunn via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I now fully understand conditionals. > > If Germany attempts to move eir fleet to Swe, then I would like to build > a fleet in Stp/sc. Otherwise, build an army in War. (If only one build > is available, this is the order I would prefer) > > For my other build, build a fleet in Sev unless it is occupied, > otherwise build an army in Mos. > > -- > ATMunn > friendly neighborhood notary and Czar of Russia :) > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Deputisation Intent
Ok i will give em this next whole week then On Sun., 12 Jul. 2020, 10:26 pm Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion, wrote: > On 7/12/20 7:55 AM, N. S. via agora-business wrote: > > Murphy missed eir report last week, I'll give him 2 days from now. I > intend > > to deputise for ADoP to publish eir weekly report. > > > > I think that could be violating the spirit of Rule 1769 > > Rule 1769/15 (Power=3) > Holidays > > The period each year from midnight GMT on the morning of 24 > December to the beginning of the first Agoran week to begin after > 2 January is a Holiday. > > The week that contains the beginning of Agora's Birthday, > together with the following week, is a Holiday. > > If a person breaks a Rule by missing a deadline that occurs during > a Holiday, punishment is generally not appropriate. > > > > -- > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate > Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth >
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Diplonomic 2020] Resolution of Spring 1901
Can you make, like, a screenshot or something that i can actually see (i play on a phone and a chromebook) On Sun., 12 Jul. 2020, 11:01 am Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion, wrote: > On 7/11/20 8:34 PM, omd via agora-discussion wrote: > > at 5:29 PM, omd wrote: > > > >> It produces a SVG (vector) image, which I’ve attached and is also > >> available at: https://a.qoid.us/diplonomic-S1901M.svg > >> > >> I've also attached the .jdip file. > >> > > > > Well, that one shows the orders from the first turn, but I guess I > > should also produce a SVG for the current state of things: > > > > https://a.qoid.us/diplonomic-F1901M.svg > > > > Since people like these images, I will start producing them. > > -- > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate > Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth >
Re: DIS: [Protos] Some ideas I've been kicking around
ADoP is easy and should be 1, Arbitor should be 2, Herald should be 2. Distributor should be 0 (should be an option). On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 11:55 AM Falsifian via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > I like this idea a lot. As pointed out on Discord, there should be some > > initial complexity values. I thought I would suggest some: > > > > ADoP: 2 > > Arbitor: 1 > > Assessor: 3 > > Coopor: 1 > > Distributor: N/A? > > Herald: 1 > > I think Herald should be higher. E has a wide variety of duties: > tracking karma; tracking a long history of patent titles (the only other > report I'm aware of that's required to include a historical record is > the Registrar's monthly, but I think that's simple by comparison); > coordinating peer review and awarding of patent titles; not to mention > making sure the Birthday Tournament happens. > > Not sure if 2 or 3 is appropriate though. > > > Notary: 2 > > Prime Minister: 0 > > Promotor: 3 > > Referee: 2 > > Registrar: 1 > > Rulekeepor: 3 > > Speaker: 0 > > Tailor: 1 > > Treasuror: 2 > > Webmastor: 1 > > > > Again, just suggestions; I didn't put a ton of thought into these, and > > I'm sure some will disagree. But I think something like this would work > > for the initial values. > > > > > -- > Falsifian > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates life [Attn. Notary]
well,,, it might not work. there could be a problem with the reproduction being "a change that would make the contract's text publicly unavailable" On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 5:20 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I don't intend to overload our Notary with work. Once I have the > Contracolis reproduce once or twice my intention is to CfJ to confirm that > they have reproduced and then destroy them all. > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 8:50 AM Reuben Staley via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > On 2020-07-08 00:39, N. S. via agora-discussion wrote: > > > yep, i'm also quite sure that this works, a person can consent entirely > > by > > > contract and consenting is sufficient to create a contract. this could > be > > > called, quite circular. > > > > Well, dang. Sorry, ATMunn. I tried. > > > > -- > > Trigon > > > > I LOVE SPAGHETTI > > transfer Jason one coin > > nch was here > > I hereby > > don't... trust... the dragon... > > don't... trust... the dragon... > > Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this > > > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates life [Attn. Notary]
yep, i'm also quite sure that this works, a person can consent entirely by contract and consenting is sufficient to create a contract. this could be called, quite circular. On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 4:30 PM omd via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > at 11:26 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion > wrote: > > > On 2020-07-07 23:59, Cuddle Beam via agora-business wrote: > >> I have no idea if this works, but it might be useful for certain > >> applications. Experimentation!!! > >> I create the following contract called "Contracoli": > >> > >> Cuddlebeam is the sole member to this contract. After 24 hours have > >> passed since this instance of this contract has been created, a copy of > >> this contact (a new instance of it) is made. Cuddlebeam consents and > >> agrees > >> with themselves that these new contracts are made in this specific way. > >> > >> I hereby publicly consent to and agree with myself to have Contracoli > >> contracts be generated in the way described above. > > > > As fun as this is, contracts cannot perform actions automatically. I > > guess you could amend it so that you CAN do so, but at that point, > > there's no real reason for the contracts to fork like this since you > can > > just create a large number of dummy contracts and that would be > probably > > just as effective at annoying the heck out of the Notary. > > They can’t perform actions in general automatically. But by Rule 2519 > they > can give consent, and CFJs 3849-50 held that consent is actually the > mechanism for contract changes. So I think this works. > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: just a normal action
it's a nonsense acronym meant to refer to "ISIDTID" (i said i did therefore i did), which is the agoran fallacy that you can do anything as long as you say so. On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 4:15 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > ATEOISIDTIDWHPAFALT > > lmfao what is this > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 2:12 AM Aris Merchant via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 5:00 PM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion < > > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > > On 7/7/20 7:55 PM, ATMunn via agora-business wrote: > > > > I cease to exist. > > > > > > > > > > This is probably a regulated action because it would change information > > > for which the Registrar is the recordkeepor, and thus you would need a > > > method provided by a statute to cease to exist > > > > > > Even if it weren't, this is blatantly ATEOISIDTIDWHPAFALT. > > > > -Aris > > > > > > > > > > > -- >From R. Lee
Re: [Parley] Stricter Tattle-Taling Rules (Re: @ Notary Pledge Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Shiny Loot)
well the intent to transfer the promise is npwhere quoted in aris's message, so it certainly didn't work! On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 10:48 AM ATMunn via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 7/7/2020 8:44 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote: > > I object. We're planning to auction these off (or at least there is/was a > > proposal in the pipeline to do so). > > > > -Aris > > Is this an objection to the Parley or the intent to transfer the > promise? I assume the latter? > > -- > ATMunn > friendly neighborhood notary here :) > -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: Shiny Loot
Distributing this promise would be easy because it's just 200 coins, which we could Parley to extract from omd and then evenly distribute that. On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 10:18 AM ATMunn via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 7/7/2020 8:10 PM, N. S. via agora-business wrote: > > I intend w/o objection to transfer the "treasure" promise from the LF > > Department to the Plundership > > > I object. > > This does not put me in Davy Jones' Locker, as this was not a transferal > of coins: > > > Any person who has objected to a transferral of coins to the > > Plundership are in Davy Jones’ Locker. A person in Davy Jones’ Locker > > cannot become a Pirate, and they immediately cease to be a Pirate if > > they already were one. > > If this intent succeeded, the promise would just sit there in the > Plundership's ownership with no way to get it out. We could make a > Parley to allow more types of assets to be transferred, but I don't know > how distributing them among Pirates would work. > > Either way, I think a Parley should be made to put anyone who objected > to a transferal of any asset, not just coins, in Davy Jones' Locker. > > -- > ATMunn > friendly neighborhood notary here :) > -- >From R. Lee
DIS: @Arbitor contract leaving CFJ
On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 10:02 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 7/7/20 8:01 PM, N. S. via agora-business wrote: > > Ok I CFJ: "I am no longer a party to Trigon's 6th secret contract" > > > > Argument: That contract says in relevant part" "No party can leave this > > contract until the Secret > > Action has been performed." which would seem to mandate that I can't > leave > > that contract before the action is performed (at the time of calling it > > hasn't been). Having said that a contract is very simply "an agreement > > between players", and I unambiguously don't agree to that contract in any > > way, which means it's no longer a contract with me. > > > I favour this CFJ. > > -- > Jason Cobb > > Just changing the subjectl ine for flagging requirements -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Metareport (attempted, also attn Treasuror)
yet another unintuitive way this switch works (but yes e gets 2 extra votes on econ proposals) Btw Notice of Honour +1 Trigon for a really tough report in a crazy week -1 Murphy, I actually am upset that you stole ADoP from me on a technicality despite the fact that I won two elections for it. On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 10:39 AM ATMunn via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 7/6/2020 8:36 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote: > > On 7/6/20 8:34 PM, ATMunn via agora-discussion wrote: > >> On 7/2/2020 8:38 PM, Edward Murphy via agora-official wrote: > >>> INTERESTS > >>> - > >>> > >>> Office Interest > >>> > > >> [snip] > >>> Treasuror Economy, Economy > >> I get that the Treasuror is *really* involved with the economy, but I > >> don't think the interest is supposed to be listed twice. > >> > >> > > > > It is, and it was set in the original interests proposal. See [0]. > > > > [0]: > > > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-official/2020-January/013387.html > > > Oh, interesting. (no pun intended) > > -- > ATMunn > friendly neighborhood notary here :) > -- >From R. Lee
