Re: DIS: RE: protection racket CFJ

2008-10-24 Thread Ian Kelly
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Pavitra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thursday 23 October 2008 03:40:51 pm Alexander Smith wrote:
 Wooble wrote:
  I hereby initiate an equity case regarding the Protection Racket
  contract, the parties to which are Wooble, ehird, and BobTHJ.
  ehird and BobTHJ are, and have been for quite some time, in
  material breach of Section 11 of the contract by remaining Supine
  and thus ineligible to judge CFJs.

 Heh, as a Favourholder I wanted to do that myself, but couldn't due
 to not being a Don. Maybe we should change the rules so equity
 cases can be made against arbitrary contracts, or at least
 arbitrary public contracts?

 I think we should create a more general solution. Rather than each
 person be either a party to a given contract or not, there should be
 a third state, that a person can be a witness to a given contract.
 Witnesses are considered parties for the purposes of equity, but a
 contract CANNOT impose obligations on witnesses. For a contract like
 a bank or the Protection Racket, assetholders should be witnesses;
 for a pledge, all first-class persons should be witnesses by default.

I had a similar proto back in September that I never got around to
proposing.  Feel free to steal from it if you want:

Proto: It Takes Two to Tango (AI=1.7)

[ Generalizes the features of pledges to all contracts.  Also adds a
 small amount of red tape to pledge creation, by requiring the
 participation of a second person who volunteers to enforce the
 pledge. ]

Amend Rule 1742 (Contracts) by replacing this text:

 Each contract requires a certain number of parties (two if not
 otherwise specified by the rules).  Any agreement made by one or
 more persons, with the intention that it be binding on them and
 governed by the rules, becomes a contract when it comes to have
 at least the required number of parties, and terminates when it
 comes to have less than the required number of parties.

with this text:

 Any agreement made by one or more persons, with the intention
 that it be binding on them and governed by the rules, becomes a
 contract when it comes to have at least one party and at least
 two participants, and terminates when it comes to have less than
 one party or less than two participants.  Any party to or
 enforcer of such an agreement is a participant in the agreement.


Amend Rule 2197 (Defining Contract Changes) by replacing this text:

 (a) a person who intends to be bound by a contract becoming a
 party to the contract;

 (b) a person ceasing to be a party to the contract;

 (c) amending a contract; and

 (d) terminating a contract

with this text:

 (a) a non-participant who intends to be bound by a contract
 becoming a party to the contract;

 (b) a person ceasing to be a party to the contract;

 (c) a non-participant who intends to enforce a contract becoming
 an enforcer of the contract;

 (d) a person ceasing to be an enforcer of the contract;

 (e) amending a contract; and

 (f) terminating a contract


Amend Rule 2198 (Making Contract Changes) by replacing this text:

 If a contract does not purport to regulate becoming a party to
 it, than any person CAN become a party to it by announcement.

 If the minimum number of parties for a contract is at least two,
 then Contract Changes CAN be made to it by agreement between all
 the parties to the contract.  Otherwise, any party to the
 contract CAN make Contract Changes to that contract without
 Objection.  Any party to the contract CAN object to this
 dependent action.

with this text:

 If a contract does not purport to regulate becoming a party to
 it, than any person CAN become a party to it by announcement.

 If a contract does not purport to regulate becoming an enforcer
 of it, than any person CAN become an enforcer of it by
 announcement.

 Contract Changes CAN be made by agreement between all the
 parties to the contract, without the Objection of any enforcer
 of the contract.

 If a contract does not impose any ongoing or unsatisfied
 obligations on its current parties, and will not do so in the
 future in its current form, then any participant CAN terminate
 it by announcing that it is obsolete.


Repeal Rule 2191 (Pledges).


Amend Rule 2169 (Equity Cases) by replacing this text:

 An equity case CAN be initiated by any party to the contract,

with this text:

 An equity case CAN be initiated by any participant in the
 contract,

and by replacing this text:

 The members of the bases of the parties to the contract are all
 unqualified to be assigned as judge of the case.

with this text:

 The members of the bases of the participants in the contract are
 all unqualified to be assigned as judge of the case.

-root


Re: DIS: RE: protection racket CFJ

2008-10-24 Thread Geoffrey Spear
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Roger Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 for a pledge, all first-class persons should be witnesses by default.

 Seems like a good idea. Witnesses should also be barred from judging
 related equity cases.

The two of those together would bar everyone from judging equity cases
involving pledges.


Re: BUS: Re: DIS: RE: protection racket CFJ

2008-10-24 Thread Pavitra
On Friday 24 October 2008 11:14:43 am Ed Murphy wrote:
   The initiator is unqualified to be assigned as judge of the
   case.  All other members of the bases of the parties to the
   contract are also unqualified, except while this would result
   in all entities being unqualified.

I'm not necessarily recommending changing it, but can someone explain 
the advantages and disadvantages of this version versus all other 
members of the bases of the parties to the contract are poorly 
qualified?


Re: BUS: Re: DIS: RE: protection racket CFJ

2008-10-24 Thread Ed Murphy
Pavitra wrote:

 On Friday 24 October 2008 11:14:43 am Ed Murphy wrote:
   The initiator is unqualified to be assigned as judge of the
   case.  All other members of the bases of the parties to the
   contract are also unqualified, except while this would result
   in all entities being unqualified.
 
 I'm not necessarily recommending changing it, but can someone explain 
 the advantages and disadvantages of this version versus all other 
 members of the bases of the parties to the contract are poorly 
 qualified?

Rule 1868 says the CotC SHALL NOT assign a poorly-qualified judge.  In
this situation, EXCUSED is possible, but not guaranteed (is it worse
to assign a poorly-qualified judge, or to leave the case unassigned?).



DIS: RE: protection racket CFJ

2008-10-23 Thread Alexander Smith
Wooble wrote:
 I hereby initiate an equity case regarding the Protection Racket
 contract, the parties to which are Wooble, ehird, and BobTHJ.  ehird
 and BobTHJ are, and have been for quite some time, in material breach
 of Section 11 of the contract by remaining Supine and thus ineligible
 to judge CFJs.
Heh, as a Favourholder I wanted to do that myself, but couldn't due to
not being a Don. Maybe we should change the rules so equity cases can
be made against arbitrary contracts, or at least arbitrary public
contracts?
-- 
ais523
winmail.dat

Re: DIS: RE: protection racket CFJ

2008-10-23 Thread Pavitra
On Thursday 23 October 2008 03:40:51 pm Alexander Smith wrote:
 Wooble wrote:
  I hereby initiate an equity case regarding the Protection Racket
  contract, the parties to which are Wooble, ehird, and BobTHJ. 
  ehird and BobTHJ are, and have been for quite some time, in
  material breach of Section 11 of the contract by remaining Supine
  and thus ineligible to judge CFJs.

 Heh, as a Favourholder I wanted to do that myself, but couldn't due
 to not being a Don. Maybe we should change the rules so equity
 cases can be made against arbitrary contracts, or at least
 arbitrary public contracts?

I think we should create a more general solution. Rather than each 
person be either a party to a given contract or not, there should be 
a third state, that a person can be a witness to a given contract. 
Witnesses are considered parties for the purposes of equity, but a 
contract CANNOT impose obligations on witnesses. For a contract like 
a bank or the Protection Racket, assetholders should be witnesses; 
for a pledge, all first-class persons should be witnesses by default.


Re: DIS: RE: protection racket CFJ

2008-10-23 Thread Roger Hicks
On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 15:53, Pavitra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I think we should create a more general solution. Rather than each
 person be either a party to a given contract or not, there should be
 a third state, that a person can be a witness to a given contract.
 Witnesses are considered parties for the purposes of equity, but a
 contract CANNOT impose obligations on witnesses. For a contract like
 a bank or the Protection Racket, assetholders should be witnesses;
 for a pledge, all first-class persons should be witnesses by default.

Seems like a good idea. Witnesses should also be barred from judging
related equity cases.

BobTHJ