Re: [Alpine-l] Seed Storage and Germination
Several weeks ago I posted a query on the NARGS Forum concerning seed storage and received very few responses. Oh, well, you know those forum people Probably the fridge itself would be sufficient and perhaps preferable? Zillion-year-old townsendia seed germinates if you sow it directly into the ground. The idea of storing seed in the refrigerator makes no sense at all. (Most seed germination stuff makes no sense to me.) If seed is viable for several years, it isn't always in cool conditions in the wild (the surface soil temperature at alpine elevations is quite high in summer), and if a packet of seed germinates after being kept in your socks drawer for ten years, then the exception disproves the rule. I found a packet of seed under a bottle of Tabasco sauce on the table here just the other day. Almost time to sow it. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado, USA___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l
Re: [Alpine-l] garden tours, was rockless rock garden
Bob Nold wrote: I might just make a sign that says natural area; look out and leave it at that. The sign I want to make says Please don't step on the snakes Jim McKenney ___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l
Re: [Alpine-l] Seed Storage and Germination
Dear List-server Master, I would be grateful if you could suspend me for a period of time from today. I would like to resume at a later date because I do enjoy reading the postings. Thank you all, David David Tay, PhD Leader, Genetic Resources Conservation and Characterization Division International Potato Center (CIP), Apartado 1558, Lima 12, Peru P: +51 1 349-6017 Extension 3056 F: +51 1 317-5326 E: d@cgiar.org W: www.cipotato.org http://www.cipotato.org http://www.cipotato.org/ From: alpine-l-boun...@science.uu.nl [mailto:alpine-l-boun...@science.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Jim McKenney Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 4:05 PM To: 'Alpine-L, the Electronic Rock Garden Society;postings copyright by authors.' Subject: Re: [Alpine-l] Seed Storage and Germination Bob Nold wrote: The idea of storing seed in the refrigerator makes no sense at all. The idea might not make any sense, but experience shows that the practice does. I think there are seeds for which cold storage makes a difference. Most old books made the claim that seed of culinary onions and lilies was only viable for a year. And I'll bet that everyone who kept seed of these plants from year to year at room temperature found the old seed difficult to germinate. And I know from personal experience that lily seed kept in the refrigerator germinates freely when many years old. And lily seed kept in the freezer germinates when over 10 years old. What I don't know (and would like to know) is if lily seed stored dry at room temperature for years will germinate after an additional period of storage at low temperatures. Jim McKenney ___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l
Re: [Alpine-l] Seed Storage and Germination
I think there are seeds for which cold storage makes a difference. How many species in the wild experience refrigerator temperatures all year? Not very many. So it stands to reason that the viability of seeds is not affected by being stored at room temperature. Lots of plants leave seed banks (ie, under and around the plant), subject to depredation of course, that remain viable for years. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado, USA ___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l
Re: [Alpine-l] Townsendia parryi
Carolyn They should move easily if you try when they are still dormant. I have moved them as dormant bare root plants and had good success. Just wrap the roots in a damp paper towel for transport and pop them back in the ground. John Weiser ___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l
Re: [Alpine-l] Seed Storage and Germination
It might stand to reason, but it does not agree with experience. If you put my in front of experience, I'd have no issue with this. But in fact, for seeds that have long viability, storing at room temperature usually increases the germination rate. Lots of penstemons and cacti, etc, are like this. It certainly doesn't kill the seed. Why take up refrigerator space that could be used for Gardener's Beverages? Bob Nold ___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l
Re: [Alpine-l] Seed Storage and Germination
Hey, has the party already started? Have you already gotten into the beverages? When did this phrase 'for seeds that have long viability get into the equation? Of course seeds that have long viability will germinate. Duh? I'm talking about seeds which are traditionally regarded as not having long viability when stored at room temperature, but which prove to have long viability when stored cold. BTW, save one for me. Jim McKenney ___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l
Re: [Alpine-l] a bit of rock garden history
Hi Jim, You are the biggest compendium of interesting information I have met in a long time...smile. I accessed my favorite spice company, Atlantic Spice Company in Truro,MA, where I spend summer and fall months, and Spanish saffron is 80 per half ounce. Their spice list is extensive and the quality great. _http://www.atlanticspice.com/store/SearchStoreResults.asp_ (http://www.atlanticspice.com/store/SearchStoreResults.asp) I certainly would enjoy a tasting of the various sorts, with some appropriatebeverage on the side...smile. Cheerio In a message dated 1/12/2011 10:03:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jimmcken...@jimmckenney.com writes: Jan asked: does anyone know if you can harvest the stigmas of C. cartwrightianus and use them in place of saffron? First, a bit of nit-picking terminology. It isn't the stigma which is harvested, it's the entire style. The stigma is the surface on which pollen gets stuck. If saffron were harvested from the stigma only, it would be vastly more expensive than it already is. Also, old books mention that in the past the styles of Crocus nudiflorus were used as a source of saffron. I grow several species of crocus of the saffron group (C. thomasii, C. cartwrightianus, C. oreocreticus, C. pallasii and C. sativus - all but C. sativus from Jane McGary) and although I have not attempted to cook with the styles, they all have a similar strong scent. A culinary/economic note: years ago I bought an ounce of saffron. It came in a rather elegant decorative metal box. I figured it would be a life time supply. At the time it cost about $50 US dollars. In the current Penzeys Spices catalog, 1/4 ounce of the better grade goes for about $82. At that rate my little box would have cost nearly $320. Jim McKenney -Original Message- From: alpine-l-boun...@science.uu.nl [mailto:alpine-l-boun...@science.uu.nl] On Behalf Of Jan Jeddeloh Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 9:32 PM To: Alpine-L, the Electronic Rock Garden Society;postings copyright by authors. Subject: Re: [Alpine-l] a bit of rock garden history Jane McGary wrote Crocus sativus is believed to be a triploid sport of C. cartwrightianus, which is a fertile species and can indeed be grown from seed. In fact, it self-sowed readily in my bulb frames. It usually has white flowers with strongly marked veining on the outer tepals, and its style is the same bright scarlet as C. sativus but not so long. I think C. cartwrightianus is widely adaptable in gardens. Just out of curiousity does anyone know if you can harvest the stigmas of C. cartwrightianus and use them in place of saffron? Just wondering. Jan ___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l ___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l ___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l
Re: [Alpine-l] Seed Storage and Germination
Not all of us live in a place where the average dewpoint is -10 F, Bob. On the plus side, we don't have to worry as much about the ADH-suppressing effects of the beverages. Russell At 05:51 PM 1/14/2011, you wrote: Why take up refrigerator space that could be used for Gardener's Beverages? Bob Nold Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs PO Box 382 South Lancaster, MA 01561 508-335-8106 www.odysseybulbs.com ___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l
Re: [Alpine-l] Seed Storage and Germination
Now I understand. I don't drink those beverages that require refrigeration, thus I have plenty of refrigerator space for seeds. Plus, I don't use Tabasco sauce. So I lack the preferred place for storing seeds. Note to self: Buy Tabasco. A lot of it. :-) I guess I will just have to keep using the method that has worked pretty well for me for over 20 years, namely the refrigerator. I just don't have the funds to buy that kind of Tabasco, nor do I have a table big enough to hold said Tabasco. And those who want to store seeds beneath Tabasco sauce containers (will any old generic hot sauce do, or does it have to be Tabasco?), can continue to do so with no interference by me, I am sure. When gardening becomes hard science, we will have the definitive answer, per species. It will be a thick book to hold all of that info and we will still probably argue about it. :-) In the meantime, I will just continue doggedly to pot Hepaticas. I am getting blisters on my seedling-handling fingers. Cheerfully, Ilse On 1/14/2011 2:51 PM, penstemon wrote: It might stand to reason, but it does not agree with experience. If you put my in front of experience, I'd have no issue with this. But in fact, for seeds that have long viability, storing at room temperature usually increases the germination rate. Lots of penstemons and cacti, etc, are like this. It certainly doesn't kill the seed. Why take up refrigerator space that could be used for Gardener's Beverages? Bob Nold ___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l ___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l
Re: [Alpine-l] garden tours, was rockless rock garden
Jim, would that sign be placed at street entrance? Cohan On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Jim McKenney jimmcken...@jimmckenney.comwrote: Bob Nold wrote: “I might just make a sign that says natural area; look out and leave it at that.” The sign I want to make says “Please don’t step on the snakes” Jim McKenney -- West Central Alberta, Canada, Zone 2-3 record temps from 10-20 miles away: min -45C/-49F;max 34C/93F http://picasaweb.google.com/cactuscactus ___ Alpine-l mailing list Alpine-l@science.uu.nl http://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/alpine-l
