Re: [alto] Meeting Info for Tuesday 07/18/2023

2023-07-22 Thread Jordi Ros Giralt 
Thanks Diego and Ayoub. To complement Ayoub's summary of Diego's conversation, 
I added a link to the mailarchive thread under topic C/Section 3.2: 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rpziU7NZEE8f84XkJSjMhEIHUA5G7rXkGB5c_7UFxUY/edit?usp=sharing

Jordi

From: Diego R. Lopez 
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2023 8:06
To: Jordi Ros Giralt ; alto@ietf.org 
Subject: Re: Meeting Info for Tuesday 07/18/2023


WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of any 
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Hi Jordi,



On topic C, I’d suggest we could use as base for discussion this post I made to 
the list:

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/c-pFeENnBa3t1HcVlgHtArT6uuE/

I have seen Ayoub (or another kind editor) has added what is mentioned there to 
the root document…



Be goode,



--

“Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno”



Dr Diego R. Lopez

Telefonica I+D

https://www.linkedin.com/dr2lopez/



e-mail: diego.r.lo...@telefonica.com

Mobile: +34 682 051 091

-



On 18/7/23, 11:56,  wrote:



Dear all,



This is a friendly reminder that we will have our ALTO weekly meeting today 
Tuesday, 07/18/2023, at 9:00 am EST (3:00 pm CET and 9:00 pm Beijing Time).



Agenda:



(Please suggest new items as necessary)



- Address comments from RFC Editor on ALTO Performance Metrics drafts.

- IETF 117.

- Chairs proposed this agenda: 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-117-alto/

- Discussion about presentations

- Hackathon projects

- ALTO Future Work:

  - List of topics: 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/uIFD6Dhikfu4J4PYcpJTbsiXbnE/

- Topic A: 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/nSBb2fJwwEEEeZ-Xxw-OmHhJdTs/

- Topic B: 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/IXYPC1joF17oPJ7MWz5NDplAqKk/

- Topic C: WIP

- Topic D: 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/IEAyQ2kv49AvT1hIGfYkHWLxisY/



- Material:

  - Root document for topics discussion: 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rpziU7NZEE8f84XkJSjMhEIHUA5G7rXkGB5c_7UFxUY/edit

  - Root ticket for ALTO future work proposals: 
https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/blob/main/FutureALTO/alto-direction-of-work.md



ALTO Scrum Dashboard:

--

- https://github.com/orgs/ietf-wg-alto/projects/1/views/2



Bridge:

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- Join from the meeting link: 
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1dd555eff4634917aaff5a927d6e2c68

- Join by meeting number (access code): 2424 884 8159

- Meeting password: ymKtkapb394



ALTO Meeting Minutes:

-

https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/blob/main/meetings-ietf-alto/ietf-alto-2023.md





Thanks,

Jordi, on behalf of ALTO







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Re: [alto] Meeting Info for Tuesday 07/18/2023

2023-07-22 Thread Y. Richard Yang 
Hi Diego,

Always good posting from you.

As ALTO starts to be deployed in several networks, it is time to seriously
look into the security and trust management aspects of existing
ALTO-exposed information. It is better to understand and introduce
mechanisms to mitigate potential issues before widespread deployment.
Hence, a potential work item is an informational document that analyzes the
security and privacy risks of ALTO (or generally network) exposed
information about network-attached entities.

- Security and privacy impacts on endpoints
Specifically, ALTO has defined both path and entity properties. There are
path 9 metrics:
[RFC9439 to-be]: one-way delay; roundtrip delay; delay variation; loss
rate; residual bandwidth; available bandwidth; TCP throughput; hop count;
[RFC7285]: routingcost. The metrics can be exposed in numerical mode or
ordinal (ranking) mode. ALTO also has defined the entity property service
which can expose some properties of an endpoint. It helps to identify the
security and privacy impacts on involved endpoints.

Example: To be concrete, assume that there is a public, high-quality
(without security/privacy consideration) ALTO server providing ALTO metrics
for a network. An ALTO client knows the exact location of an IP address
IPa. The client queries the delay from IPa to IPb (belonging to the same
network) and finds that it has low delay, implying that IPa and IPb are
closeby; in general, one can use delay metrics to conduct triangulation.

Management: There are multiple management approaches, depending on the
context. For example,
- Should the ALTO server have a security policy for quantizing the delay
metrics?
- In many cases, ordinal (ranking) metrics reveal less information, and
hence can be preferred.
- If there is known trust relationship between the ALTO server and
application, the risk can be better analyzed and managed. Maybe there
should be an acceptable usage agreement when an ALTO server exposes
information to an ALTO client.
- There are many cases where the ALTO server is not the only information
source. For example, if an application is already running on an endpoint,
the application can conduct measurements. If some ICMP functions are
enabled, some information can be exposed anyway.
- Do we want to investigate a mechanism for an endpoint to manage its own
data (e.g., when its IP appears, or the subnet)?
- Eventually, should a network publish some type of policy such as a
differential privacy policy (
https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Differential_Privacy_Overview.pdf)

The above is complementary to this paragraph for you but should be highly
related: "The expression of security properties (and trust assessment. Note
the difference) as ALTO metrics. This would require an extension to the
protocol, of a nature similar to the ones being discussed for other aspects
like energy consumption."

Complementing to endpoint security and privacy is network infrastructure
security and privacy. As we engage in the deployment of ALTO at WLCG, we
can feel that security/privacy is a concern of some network operators. But
some of these networks already publish much of their data (e.g., WLCG/CERN
has the public https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/LHCONE/WebHome). What
additional security/privacy does ALTO expose? Overall, a network should
evaluate its overall exposure and ALTO is just one piece of it. An WG item
to provide a framework and list of (recommended) sources can be highly
valuable. This should be related to your comment on provenance, and it is a
good topic to look into:
"The provenance of the data, in order to properly record the origin and
history of the data being exposed using ALTO. This includes the different
data sources aggregated by the ALTO server and the possible re-use of
stored or post-processed ALTO statements. I have submitted a proposal on
YANG provenance (
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lopez-opsawg-yang-provenance/) that
could be applicable here.

Cheers,
Richard

On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 8:06 AM Diego R. Lopez 
wrote:

> Hi Jordi,
>
>
>
> On topic C, I’d suggest we could use as base for discussion this post I
> made to the list:
>
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/c-pFeENnBa3t1HcVlgHtArT6uuE/
>
> I have seen Ayoub (or another kind editor) has added what is mentioned
> there to the root document…
>
>
>
> Be goode,
>
>
>
> --
>
> “Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno”
>
>
>
> Dr Diego R. Lopez
>
> Telefonica I+D
>
> *https://www.linkedin.com/dr2lopez/ *
>
>
>
> e-mail: diego.r.lo...@telefonica.com
>
> Mobile: +34 682 051 091
> 
>
> -
>
>
>
> On 18/7/23, 11:56,  wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> This is a friendly reminder that we will have our ALTO weekly meeting today
> Tuesday, 07/18/2023, at 9:00 am EST (3:00 pm CET and
> 9:00 pm Beijing Time).
>
>
>
> Agenda:
>
> 
>
> (Please suggest new items as necessary

Re: [alto] Meeting Info for Tuesday 07/18/2023

2023-07-21 Thread Diego R. Lopez 
Hi Jordi,

On topic C, I’d suggest we could use as base for discussion this post I made to 
the list:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/c-pFeENnBa3t1HcVlgHtArT6uuE/
I have seen Ayoub (or another kind editor) has added what is mentioned there to 
the root document…

Be goode,

--
“Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno”

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D
https://www.linkedin.com/dr2lopez/

e-mail: diego.r.lo...@telefonica.com
Mobile: +34 682 051 091
-

On 18/7/23, 11:56,  wrote:

Dear all,



This is a friendly reminder that we will have our ALTO weekly meeting today 
Tuesday, 07/18/2023, at 9:00 am EST (3:00 pm CET and 9:00 pm Beijing Time).



Agenda:



(Please suggest new items as necessary)



- Address comments from RFC Editor on ALTO Performance Metrics drafts.

- IETF 117.

- Chairs proposed this agenda: 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-117-alto/

- Discussion about presentations

- Hackathon projects

- ALTO Future Work:

  - List of topics: 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/uIFD6Dhikfu4J4PYcpJTbsiXbnE/

- Topic A: 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/nSBb2fJwwEEEeZ-Xxw-OmHhJdTs/
- Topic B: 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/IXYPC1joF17oPJ7MWz5NDplAqKk/
- Topic C: WIP
- Topic D: 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/IEAyQ2kv49AvT1hIGfYkHWLxisY/

- Material:
  - Root document for topics discussion: 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rpziU7NZEE8f84XkJSjMhEIHUA5G7rXkGB5c_7UFxUY/edit
  - Root ticket for ALTO future work proposals: 
https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/blob/main/FutureALTO/alto-direction-of-work.md



ALTO Scrum Dashboard:

--

- https://github.com/orgs/ietf-wg-alto/projects/1/views/2



Bridge:

-

- Join from the meeting link: 
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1dd555eff4634917aaff5a927d6e2c68

- Join by meeting number (access code): 2424 884 8159

- Meeting password: ymKtkapb394



ALTO Meeting Minutes:

-

https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/blob/main/meetings-ietf-alto/ietf-alto-2023.md





Thanks,

Jordi, on behalf of ALTO






Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, puede 
contener información privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclusivo de la 
persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario indicado, queda 
notificado de que la lectura, utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin 
autorización puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha 
recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente 
por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción.

The information contained in this transmission is confidential and privileged 
information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. 
If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby 
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication 
is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, do not 
read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this 
communication in error and then delete it.

Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinatário, pode 
conter informação privilegiada ou confidencial e é para uso exclusivo da pessoa 
ou entidade de destino. Se não é vossa senhoria o destinatário indicado, fica 
notificado de que a leitura, utilização, divulgação e/ou cópia sem autorização 
pode estar proibida em virtude da legislação vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem 
por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e 
proceda a sua destruição


Le informamos de que el responsable del tratamiento de sus datos es la entidad 
del Grupo Telefónica vinculada al remitente, con la finalidad de mantener el 
contacto profesional y gestionar la relación establecida con el destinatario o 
con la entidad a la que está vinculado. Puede contactar con el responsable del 
tratamiento y ejercitar sus derechos escribiendo a 
privacidad@telefonica.com. Puede 
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Política de 
Privacidad.

We inform you that the data controller is the Telefónica Group entity linked to 
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You may consult additional information on the processing of your data in our 
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[alto] Meeting Info for Tuesday 07/18/2023

2023-07-18 Thread Jordi Ros Giralt 
Dear all,



This is a friendly reminder that we will have our ALTO weekly meeting today 
Tuesday, 07/18/2023, at 9:00 am EST (3:00 pm CET and 9:00 pm Beijing Time).



Agenda:



(Please suggest new items as necessary)


- Address comments from RFC Editor on ALTO Performance Metrics drafts.

- IETF 117.

- Chairs proposed this agenda: 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-117-alto/

- Discussion about presentations

- Hackathon projects

- ALTO Future Work:

  - List of topics: 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/uIFD6Dhikfu4J4PYcpJTbsiXbnE/

- Topic A: 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/nSBb2fJwwEEEeZ-Xxw-OmHhJdTs/

- Topic B: 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/IXYPC1joF17oPJ7MWz5NDplAqKk/
- Topic C: WIP
- Topic D: 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/IEAyQ2kv49AvT1hIGfYkHWLxisY/

- Material:
  - Root document for topics discussion: 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rpziU7NZEE8f84XkJSjMhEIHUA5G7rXkGB5c_7UFxUY/edit
  - Root ticket for ALTO future work proposals: 
https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/blob/main/FutureALTO/alto-direction-of-work.md



ALTO Scrum Dashboard:

--

- https://github.com/orgs/ietf-wg-alto/projects/1/views/2



Bridge:

-

- Join from the meeting link: 
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1dd555eff4634917aaff5a927d6e2c68

- Join by meeting number (access code): 2424 884 8159

- Meeting password: ymKtkapb394



ALTO Meeting Minutes:

-

https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/blob/main/meetings-ietf-alto/ietf-alto-2023.md





Thanks,

Jordi, on behalf of ALTO



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