exclude list not working on clients.

2010-02-26 Thread Jobst Schmalenbach
Hi.

I have one client host that refuses to listen to the exclude list option in 
the dumptype. 

I know it works, for example I backup a 120GB /amanda directory/parition on the 
tape 
host that contains the directory holdingdisk, that is excluded in the dumptype:

  define dumptype amandadir {
global
exclude list /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1/amanda_exclude.gtar
program GNUTAR
  }

and that file contains one line and one line only:

  [r...@tapehost /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1] #cat amanda_exclude.gtar 
  ./holdingdisk

and that [thankfully ;-) ] is not backed up.


So here is what I have (well the important stuff) with regards to the config 
I have some problems with:

On the amanda tape server in amanda.conf:

  define dumptype sambadir {
  global
  exclude list /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1/samba_exclude.gtar
  program GNUTAR
  }

On the amanda tape server in disklist (amongst other partitions and hosts):
  ...
  192.168.X.Y /var standard
  192.168.X.Y /src standard
  192.168.X.Y /samba   sambadir
  ...

on the client 192.168.X.Y I have a file that is refered to above that contains

  [r...@192.168.x.y /] #cat /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1/samba_exclude.gtar
  ./Shares/Backup
  ./Shares/score_testing
  ./Shares/SharedBinariesWinNT
  ./Shares/SharedBinariesWin2000
 
Those directories are full of stuff that does not need to be backed up,
but when I look in the gnutar-list directory of that client:

   [r...@192.168.x.y /var/lib/amanda/gnutar-lists] #grep ./Shares\/Backup 
192.168.X.Y_samba_1
   2067 12304757 
./Shares/Backup/Software/DevStudio_SourceCode/VC/SAMPLES/SDK/OLE/INOLE2/CHAP07/PATRON
   2067 11026541 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/custom/layout/modules
   2067 278714 
./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/sympa5.4.1/expl/productupdates/shared
   2067 246195 ./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/sympa/locale/ja
   2067 10896037 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/cache/upload/upgrades/temp/k9D2wD/SugarPro-Upgrade-4.0.1-to-4.5.0d/include/ytree/TreeView/css
   2067 10354877 ./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/Documents/2000_11_31/Assessment 
Services/SPQ
   2067 12370086 
./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/VPS_april2006/localicons_b4_update/Activate2/small
   2067 12763398 
./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/httpd/www.activate.com.au/dynamic/HVP_TP/pdf/ask
   2067 11043546 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/modules/Studio/wizards
   2067 11405291 ./Shares/Backup/Software/DevStudio_SourceCode/MyProjects/Colin 
Herbert
   2067 10322192 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/Documents/1998_12_31/Z_SystemAdministration/motherboards
   2067 82041 
./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/sympa.org.02_04_08/bin/etc
   2067 10797122 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/cache/upload/upgrades/patch/SugarPro-Patch-3.5.1b-restore/include
   2067 10715411 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/Documents/2007_and_earlier/Consulting/Proposals/2002/Tender
 Submissions/NESA Aug02


So I am not sure why it does not work, basically it is 50GB of crap I do not 
need
and is only required for historical purposes.

What am I doing wrong?

Jobst






-- 
Today is the first day of the rest of the mess.

  | |0| |   Jobst Schmalenbach, jo...@barrett.com.au, General Manager
  | | |0|   Barrett Consulting Group P/L  The Meditation Room P/L
  |0|0|0|   +61 3 9532 7677, POBox 277, Caulfield South, 3162, Australia


Re: exclude list not working on clients.

2010-02-26 Thread Jean-Louis Martineau

Jobst,

What you do looks good, post the sendbackup.*.debug file.

Jean-Louis

Jobst Schmalenbach wrote:

Hi.

I have one client host that refuses to listen to the exclude list option in the dumptype. 

I know it works, for example I backup a 120GB /amanda directory/parition on the tape 
host that contains the directory holdingdisk, that is excluded in the dumptype:


  define dumptype amandadir {
global
exclude list /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1/amanda_exclude.gtar
program GNUTAR
  }

and that file contains one line and one line only:

  [r...@tapehost /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1] #cat amanda_exclude.gtar 
  ./holdingdisk


and that [thankfully ;-) ] is not backed up.


So here is what I have (well the important stuff) with regards to the config 
I have some problems with:


On the amanda tape server in amanda.conf:

  define dumptype sambadir {
  global
  exclude list /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1/samba_exclude.gtar
  program GNUTAR
  }

On the amanda tape server in disklist (amongst other partitions and hosts):
  ...
  192.168.X.Y /var standard
  192.168.X.Y /src standard
  192.168.X.Y /samba   sambadir
  ...

on the client 192.168.X.Y I have a file that is refered to above that contains

  [r...@192.168.x.y /] #cat /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1/samba_exclude.gtar
  ./Shares/Backup
  ./Shares/score_testing
  ./Shares/SharedBinariesWinNT
  ./Shares/SharedBinariesWin2000
 
Those directories are full of stuff that does not need to be backed up,

but when I look in the gnutar-list directory of that client:

   [r...@192.168.x.y /var/lib/amanda/gnutar-lists] #grep ./Shares\/Backup 
192.168.X.Y_samba_1
   2067 12304757 
./Shares/Backup/Software/DevStudio_SourceCode/VC/SAMPLES/SDK/OLE/INOLE2/CHAP07/PATRON
   2067 11026541 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/custom/layout/modules
   2067 278714 
./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/sympa5.4.1/expl/productupdates/shared
   2067 246195 ./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/sympa/locale/ja
   2067 10896037 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/cache/upload/upgrades/temp/k9D2wD/SugarPro-Upgrade-4.0.1-to-4.5.0d/include/ytree/TreeView/css
   2067 10354877 ./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/Documents/2000_11_31/Assessment 
Services/SPQ
   2067 12370086 
./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/VPS_april2006/localicons_b4_update/Activate2/small
   2067 12763398 
./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/httpd/www.activate.com.au/dynamic/HVP_TP/pdf/ask
   2067 11043546 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/modules/Studio/wizards
   2067 11405291 ./Shares/Backup/Software/DevStudio_SourceCode/MyProjects/Colin 
Herbert
   2067 10322192 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/Documents/1998_12_31/Z_SystemAdministration/motherboards
   2067 82041 
./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/sympa.org.02_04_08/bin/etc
   2067 10797122 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/cache/upload/upgrades/patch/SugarPro-Patch-3.5.1b-restore/include
   2067 10715411 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/Documents/2007_and_earlier/Consulting/Proposals/2002/Tender
 Submissions/NESA Aug02


So I am not sure why it does not work, basically it is 50GB of crap I do not 
need
and is only required for historical purposes.

What am I doing wrong?

Jobst






  




.../gnutar-lists/bioqq5_biotera1_rna_0.new: Cannot open: Permission denied

2010-02-26 Thread Brian Cuttler

I'm running a new amanda server at my site, to new clients.

Both the client and server are Solaris 10 x86
Amanda is version 2.6.1p1.

the apparent error is
-
1267158428.081782: amgtar:   0: strange(?): /usr/sfw/bin/gtar: /usr/local/var/am
anda/gnutar-lists/bioqq5_biotera1_rna_0.new: Cannot open: Permission denied


Which is found in the following debug file.

# more /tmp/amanda/client/flower/amgtar.20100225232708.debug 
1267158428.024917: amgtar: pid 9918 ruid 110 euid 110 version 2.6.1p1: start at 
Thu Feb 25 23:27:08 2010
1267158428.025079: amgtar: version 2.6.1p1-20091023
1267158428.026444: amgtar: pid 9918 ruid 110 euid 110 version 2.6.1p1: rename at
 Thu Feb 25 23:27:08 2010
1267158428.026476: amgtar: GNUTAR-PATH /usr/sfw/bin/gtar
1267158428.026485: amgtar: GNUTAR-LISTDIR /usr/local/var/amanda/gnutar-lists
1267158428.026492: amgtar: DIRECTORY /biotera1/rna/.zfs/snapshot/amanda-_biotera
1_rna-current
1267158428.026499: amgtar: ONE-FILE-SYSTEM yes
1267158428.026506: amgtar: SPARSE yes
1267158428.026513: amgtar: ATIME-PRESERVE no
1267158428.026519: amgtar: CHECK-DEVICE yes
1267158428.026525: amgtar: SIZE ^ *Total bytes written: [0-9][0-9]*
1267158428.026532: amgtar: IGNORE : Directory is new$
1267158428.026538: amgtar: IGNORE : Directory has been renamed
1267158428.026545: amgtar: NORMAL ^could not open conf file
1267158428.026551: amgtar: NORMAL ^Elapsed time:
1267158428.026557: amgtar: NORMAL ^Throughput
1267158428.026563: amgtar: NORMAL : socket ignored$
1267158428.026569: amgtar: NORMAL : File .* shrunk by [0-9][0-9]* bytes, padding
 with zeros
1267158428.026575: amgtar: NORMAL : Cannot add file .*: No such file or director
y$
1267158428.026581: amgtar: NORMAL : Error exit delayed from previous errors
1267158428.050553: amgtar: pipespawnv: stdoutfd is 1
1267158428.050794: amgtar: Spawning /usr/sfw/bin/gtar /usr/sfw/bin/gtar --creat
e --verbose --file - --directory /biotera1/rna/.zfs/snapshot/amanda-_biotera1_rn
a-current --one-file-system --listed-incremental /usr/local/var/amanda/gnutar-li
sts/bioqq5_biotera1_rna_0.new --sparse --ignore-failed-read --totals . in pipel
ine
1267158428.081782: amgtar:   0: strange(?): /usr/sfw/bin/gtar: /usr/local/var/am
anda/gnutar-lists/bioqq5_biotera1_rna_0.new: Cannot open: Permission denied
1267183192.251690: amgtar:  78:size(|): Total bytes written: 328823756800 (3
07GiB, 13MiB/s)
1267183192.251828: amgtar:   0: strange(?): /usr/sfw/bin/gtar: Exiting with fail
ure status due to previous errors
1267183192.414471: amgtar: after /usr/sfw/bin/gtar /biotera1/rna wait
1267183192.414483: amgtar: amgtar: /usr/sfw/bin/gtar: pid 9919
1267183192.414492: amgtar: /usr/sfw/bin/gtar exited with status 2: see /tmp/aman
da/client/flower/amgtar.20100225232708.debug1267183192.414507: amgtar: sendbacku
p: size 321116950
1267183192.414517: amgtar: sendbackup: end

However I do see that these files do get created.

# ls -las /usr/local/var/amanda/gnutar-lists/
total 32
  16 drwxr-xr-x   2 amanda   sys  512 Feb 25 23:26 .
  16 drwxr-xr-x   3 amanda   sys  512 Feb 10 14:07 ..
   0 -rw---   1 amanda   sys0 Feb 25 15:54 bioqq5_biotera1_0.new
   0 -rw---   1 amanda   sys0 Feb 25 23:26 
bioqq5_biotera1_rna_0.new

I am attempting to dump with dumptype zfs-snapshots, which I have
working on several other amanda servers/clients. I do see that the
snapshot files are created as expected.

I initially had issues with amanda running correctly because /usr/local
is on a remote system, but we have it mounting with suid set and backups
do seem to initiate. [We added the  suid attribute was added to the
auto_local entry in our ldap server]

Able to send additional logs, but didn't want to have too cluttered
an initial email.

thank you,

Brian
---
   Brian R Cuttler brian.cutt...@wadsworth.org
   Computer Systems Support(v) 518 486-1697
   Wadsworth Center(f) 518 473-6384
   NYS Department of HealthHelp Desk 518 473-0773



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distribute, copy or use it or any attachments.  Please notify the
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Re: Zmanda Windows Client

2010-02-26 Thread Paddy Sreenivasan
Can you provide LogFile* from the Debug directory?
http://wiki.zmanda.com/index.php/Zmanda_Windows_Client#Log_Files

thanks,
Paddy

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Pieter Bowman bow...@math.utah.edu wrote:

 ...
 We just tried it for the first time and saw the same thing.
 What is your disklist config?
 ...

 The disklist looks like:

 host.math.utah.edu  C:/Documents and Settings   zwc-compress 1

 The amanda.conf has (among other settings):

 define dumptype global {
    index yes
    maxdumps 4
    tape_splitsize 1 Gb
 }

 define dumptype zwc-compress {
   global
   auth bsdtcp
   compress client fast
   program DUMP
   maxdumps 1
 }

 Pieter




-- 
Amanda http://amanda.zmanda.com
ZRM for MySQL http://www.zmanda.com/backup-mysql.html


Re: Windows client and 64 bit windiws

2010-02-26 Thread Paddy Sreenivasan
Are you installing 64bit version of ZWC?

Paddy

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 2:15 PM, stan st...@panix.com wrote:
 I just got a new machine from Dell with Windows Server 2008 machine with
 the OSpreinstalled. Unfortunately, it appears to be the 64 bit version.

 When I try to install the Windows clinet it gives me an error about not
 supporting this processor type. What I have is version 2.6.1.

 Is there some way I can overcome this dificulty?


 --
 A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
 Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
 A: Top-posting.
 Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?




-- 
Amanda http://amanda.zmanda.com
ZRM for MySQL http://www.zmanda.com/backup-mysql.html


Re: exclude list not working on clients.

2010-02-26 Thread Jobst Schmalenbach
Thanks for replying, Jean-Louis.

I have trouble finding them for the host AND partitions in question.
I can only find the sendbackup.*.debug files for the tape host itself
but not the client machines (none of them).

They should be in /tmp/amanda but they are not (except on the
tape host itslef). Bugger. Need to do some research.

Jobst



-Original Message-
From: Jean-Louis Martineau martin...@zmanda.com
To: Jobst Schmalenbach jo...@barrett.com.au
Cc: amanda-users@amanda.org
Subject: Re: exclude list not working on clients.
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:03:21 -0500

Jobst,

What you do looks good, post the sendbackup.*.debug file.

Jean-Louis

Jobst Schmalenbach wrote:
 Hi.

 I have one client host that refuses to listen to the exclude list option in 
 the dumptype. 

 I know it works, for example I backup a 120GB /amanda directory/parition on 
 the tape 
 host that contains the directory holdingdisk, that is excluded in the 
 dumptype:

   define dumptype amandadir {
 global
 exclude list /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1/amanda_exclude.gtar
 program GNUTAR
   }

 and that file contains one line and one line only:

   [r...@tapehost /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1] #cat amanda_exclude.gtar 
   ./holdingdisk

 and that [thankfully ;-) ] is not backed up.


 So here is what I have (well the important stuff) with regards to the config 
 I have some problems with:

 On the amanda tape server in amanda.conf:

   define dumptype sambadir {
   global
   exclude list /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1/samba_exclude.gtar
   program GNUTAR
   }

 On the amanda tape server in disklist (amongst other partitions and hosts):
   ...
   192.168.X.Y /var standard
   192.168.X.Y /src standard
   192.168.X.Y /samba   sambadir
   ...

 on the client 192.168.X.Y I have a file that is refered to above that contains

   [r...@192.168.x.y /] #cat 
 /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1/samba_exclude.gtar
   ./Shares/Backup
   ./Shares/score_testing
   ./Shares/SharedBinariesWinNT
   ./Shares/SharedBinariesWin2000
  
 Those directories are full of stuff that does not need to be backed up,
 but when I look in the gnutar-list directory of that client:

[r...@192.168.x.y /var/lib/amanda/gnutar-lists] #grep ./Shares\/Backup 
 192.168.X.Y_samba_1
2067 12304757 
 ./Shares/Backup/Software/DevStudio_SourceCode/VC/SAMPLES/SDK/OLE/INOLE2/CHAP07/PATRON
2067 11026541 
 ./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/custom/layout/modules
2067 278714 
 ./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/sympa5.4.1/expl/productupdates/shared
2067 246195 ./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/sympa/locale/ja
2067 10896037 
 ./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/cache/upload/upgrades/temp/k9D2wD/SugarPro-Upgrade-4.0.1-to-4.5.0d/include/ytree/TreeView/css
2067 10354877 ./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/Documents/2000_11_31/Assessment 
 Services/SPQ
2067 12370086 
 ./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/VPS_april2006/localicons_b4_update/Activate2/small
2067 12763398 
 ./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/httpd/www.activate.com.au/dynamic/HVP_TP/pdf/ask
2067 11043546 
 ./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/modules/Studio/wizards
2067 11405291 
 ./Shares/Backup/Software/DevStudio_SourceCode/MyProjects/Colin Herbert
2067 10322192 
 ./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/Documents/1998_12_31/Z_SystemAdministration/motherboards
2067 82041 
 ./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/sympa.org.02_04_08/bin/etc
2067 10797122 
 ./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/cache/upload/upgrades/patch/SugarPro-Patch-3.5.1b-restore/include
2067 10715411 
 ./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/Documents/2007_and_earlier/Consulting/Proposals/2002/Tender
  Submissions/NESA Aug02


 So I am not sure why it does not work, basically it is 50GB of crap I do not 
 need
 and is only required for historical purposes.

 What am I doing wrong?

 Jobst






   



Re: exclude list not working on clients.

2010-02-26 Thread Jean-Louis Martineau

They are on the client machine.

Jean-Louis

Jobst Schmalenbach wrote:

Thanks for replying, Jean-Louis.

I have trouble finding them for the host AND partitions in question.
I can only find the sendbackup.*.debug files for the tape host itself
but not the client machines (none of them).

They should be in /tmp/amanda but they are not (except on the
tape host itslef). Bugger. Need to do some research.

Jobst



-Original Message-
From: Jean-Louis Martineau martin...@zmanda.com
To: Jobst Schmalenbach jo...@barrett.com.au
Cc: amanda-users@amanda.org
Subject: Re: exclude list not working on clients.
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:03:21 -0500

Jobst,

What you do looks good, post the sendbackup.*.debug file.

Jean-Louis

Jobst Schmalenbach wrote:
  

Hi.

I have one client host that refuses to listen to the exclude list option in the dumptype. 

I know it works, for example I backup a 120GB /amanda directory/parition on the tape 
host that contains the directory holdingdisk, that is excluded in the dumptype:


  define dumptype amandadir {
global
exclude list /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1/amanda_exclude.gtar
program GNUTAR
  }

and that file contains one line and one line only:

  [r...@tapehost /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1] #cat amanda_exclude.gtar 
  ./holdingdisk


and that [thankfully ;-) ] is not backed up.


So here is what I have (well the important stuff) with regards to the config 
I have some problems with:


On the amanda tape server in amanda.conf:

  define dumptype sambadir {
  global
  exclude list /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1/samba_exclude.gtar
  program GNUTAR
  }

On the amanda tape server in disklist (amongst other partitions and hosts):
  ...
  192.168.X.Y /var standard
  192.168.X.Y /src standard
  192.168.X.Y /samba   sambadir
  ...

on the client 192.168.X.Y I have a file that is refered to above that contains

  [r...@192.168.x.y /] #cat /usr/local/etc/amanda/DailySet1/samba_exclude.gtar
  ./Shares/Backup
  ./Shares/score_testing
  ./Shares/SharedBinariesWinNT
  ./Shares/SharedBinariesWin2000
 
Those directories are full of stuff that does not need to be backed up,

but when I look in the gnutar-list directory of that client:

   [r...@192.168.x.y /var/lib/amanda/gnutar-lists] #grep ./Shares\/Backup 
192.168.X.Y_samba_1
   2067 12304757 
./Shares/Backup/Software/DevStudio_SourceCode/VC/SAMPLES/SDK/OLE/INOLE2/CHAP07/PATRON
   2067 11026541 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/custom/layout/modules
   2067 278714 
./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/sympa5.4.1/expl/productupdates/shared
   2067 246195 ./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/sympa/locale/ja
   2067 10896037 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/cache/upload/upgrades/temp/k9D2wD/SugarPro-Upgrade-4.0.1-to-4.5.0d/include/ytree/TreeView/css
   2067 10354877 ./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/Documents/2000_11_31/Assessment 
Services/SPQ
   2067 12370086 
./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/VPS_april2006/localicons_b4_update/Activate2/small
   2067 12763398 
./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/httpd/www.activate.com.au/dynamic/HVP_TP/pdf/ask
   2067 11043546 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/modules/Studio/wizards
   2067 11405291 ./Shares/Backup/Software/DevStudio_SourceCode/MyProjects/Colin 
Herbert
   2067 10322192 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/Documents/1998_12_31/Z_SystemAdministration/motherboards
   2067 82041 
./Shares/Backup/WebsServers/Moja_aug2008/home/sympa.org.02_04_08/bin/etc
   2067 10797122 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/SomeStuffPre2008/BCG_CRM_4.5.0d/cache/upload/upgrades/patch/SugarPro-Patch-3.5.1b-restore/include
   2067 10715411 
./Shares/Backup/ServerBackup/Documents/2007_and_earlier/Consulting/Proposals/2002/Tender
 Submissions/NESA Aug02


So I am not sure why it does not work, basically it is 50GB of crap I do not 
need
and is only required for historical purposes.

What am I doing wrong?

Jobst






  



  




Amanda's future?

2010-02-26 Thread Gene Heskett
Greetings;

I have taken note that there have been no new snapshots made available in a 
bit over 3 weeks now, and other than the downloads page, all of the rest of 
the new web pages point to paid support.

What is the future direction of amanda?

-- 
Cheers, Gene
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)

World conquerors sometimes become fools, but fools never become world
conquerors.
-- The Outer Limits: The Invisibles