Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Draft RIPE87 Minutes for Consideration
Hi all, this is a plain text version of the meeting minutes. Have a nice holiday, Markus - snip - Anti-Abuse Working Group Minutes RIPE 87 Wednesday, 29 November 11:00 - 12:30 Chairs: Brian Nisbet, Tobias Knecht, Markus de Brün Scribe: Chafic Chaya Status: Draft The recordings and presentations are available at: https://ripe87.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/aa-wg/ The stenography transcript is available at: https://ripe87.ripe.net/archives/steno/29/ # A. Administrative Matters Brian opened the session by welcoming everyone, thanking the supporters, mentioning the CoC and going through some administrative staff. The Working Group (WG) minutes from RIPE 86 were approved, and the agenda was finalised. # B. Updates ## B.2. From Awareness to Action - Empowering Change Through Anti-Abuse Training Gerardo Viviers, RIPE NCC The presentation is available at: https://ripe87.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/5-RIPE-87-AA-WG-presentation-GAViviers.pdf Gerardo discussed the current solution of using webinars for anti-abuse and suggested a shift towards e-learning for its benefits of self-paced learning, scalability, and consistent training. He highlighted the challenges of delivering live webinars and the benefits of e-learning in sustaining momentum and complementing live training. Brian thanked Gerardo, the RIPE NCC, and there was consent on the direction going forward with e-learning alongside the webinar. ## B.3. Discussion and Work Item Creation Tobias Knecht, co-chair, started by discussing the need for increased community engagement in the WG, particularly in addressing issues related to abuse networks. He noted that recent discussions have highlighted a lack of response to emails sent to abuse networks and have opened up further discussions on topics like Abuse email address verification and ASN Cleanup. Tobias acknowledged Marco's upcoming presentation, which provided an overview of the work already done in these areas, helping to establish a foundation for future discussions and actions. • Abuse Email Address Verification • ASN Cleanup • Abuse Email Ignored The presentation is available at: https://ripe87.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/72-RIPE87-AAWG-final.key The presentation details the RIPE NCC's efforts in two areas: Abuse-c Validation and ASN Cleanup. Abuse-c Validation involved verifying contact details for abuse handling, with annual checks yielding a small failure rate, followed by steps to correct invalid contacts. The ASN Cleanup project targeted unused Autonomous System Numbers, contacting ASN holders for confirmation, resulting in over half of the contacted ASNs being returned. This work ensured accurate and active use of RIPE NCC resources. Tobias urged the community to share their thoughts on what constitutes abusive behaviour and how the WG should tackle it. He mentioned that while some discussions occur on mailing lists, many also happen in meetings. The goal is to gather all this information, assess the current status quo, and then engage in conversations to steer various topics in the right direction. This could lead to policy proposals or other actions. Brian pointed out that the responsibility of addressing these issues does not solely lie with the RIPE NCC or any individual but with the entire community as members of the WG. He stresseed the importance of community members expressing their concerns and ideas, as this is crucial for change. Brian encourages everyone to share their thoughts on whether these issues are problematic and to suggest improvements. He warned that without community input, there will be no change, and policies that might not be favourable could emerge. Brian emphasised this as an opportunity for everyone to contribute, highlighting the importance of community involvement in shaping policies and addressing issues within the working group. Alejandro Fernandez Cernuda from Global Cyber Alliance added a note about NIS 2 and whether there is an incentive for action. Tobias commented that this was a good question what the community feels about it. Brian and Tobias addressed the implications of the upcoming NIS 2 regulations by the EU and the role of the community in shaping responses to these regulations. They reminded everyone of the community's ability to influence and create policies, citing the example of Abuse-c policy and encouraged the community to focus not only on policy but also on other aspects like training and guides on abuse. Looking forward to the next RIPE meeting, Brain mentioned that by then, NIS 2 would be legislated, and the community would need to understand its implications and identify areas for potential action. There were no comments or questions. # E. Presentations ## E.1. Global Abuse Reporting Tobias, speaking as a founder of Abuseix, discussesdthe concept of global reporting in the context of Internet abuse and the importance of
Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Draft RIPE87 Minutes for Consideration
Michele Neylon - Blacknight via anti-abuse-wg wrote on 12/21/23 20:13: It’s 2023 and Word is fairly commonly used by a lot of people. What format do you propose be used? RFC 2142 ( https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2142.txt ) FYI: all RFCs are in TXT format. Not w/o a reason. You can put your document (TXT or PDF) also on a public webserver and post here just the link to it. *From: *anti-abuse-wg on behalf of Gert Doering *Date: *Thursday, 21 December 2023 at 19:04 *To: *Brian Nisbet *Cc: *anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net *Subject: *Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Draft RIPE87 Minutes for Consideration [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Hi, On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 12:17:09PM +, Brian Nisbet wrote: Please find attached the draft minutes from the WG Session at RIPE87. If you have any comments on the minutes, please email aa-wg-ch...@ripe.net before the end of the first week of January. I do have a comment... and that is "can we have this in a reasonable and nonproprietary format, not known as a transport for viruses of all sorts"? We *do* train people to not klick on random attachments in e-mail. thanks, Gert Doering -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg
Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Draft RIPE87 Minutes for Consideration
> On 21 Dec 2023, at 20:14, Michele Neylon - Blacknight via anti-abuse-wg > wrote: > > It’s 2023 and Word is fairly commonly used by a lot of people. > > > And my dayJ0b blocks them at our inbound firewall. > What format do you propose be used? > As others have suggested ascii text is also popular. f-- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg
Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Draft RIPE87 Minutes for Consideration
> Plain text ? doh -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg
Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Draft RIPE87 Minutes for Consideration
Hi, On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 07:13:46PM +, Michele Neylon - Blacknight via anti-abuse-wg wrote: > It?s 2023 and Word is fairly commonly used by a lot of people. Yes, and people get mailed .doc documents with macros and viruses all day, guess why... this being anti-abuse, we shouldn't set bad examples. > What format do you propose be used? Anything open. PDF, or plain text. It's not like we're going to edit that .doc document... Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg
Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Draft RIPE87 Minutes for Consideration
Plain text ? Just like most of us send and read email from I like simple things, Rgds, Ray (me, myself, no hats on) Kohteesta: anti-abuse-wg henkilön Michele Neylon - Blacknight via anti-abuse-wg puolesta Lähetetty: torstaina, joulukuuta 21, 2023 9:14:19 ip. Vastaanottaja: Gert Doering ; Brian Nisbet Kopio: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net Aihe: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Draft RIPE87 Minutes for Consideration It’s 2023 and Word is fairly commonly used by a lot of people. What format do you propose be used? -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ --- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours. For Internal Use Only From: anti-abuse-wg on behalf of Gert Doering Date: Thursday, 21 December 2023 at 19:04 To: Brian Nisbet Cc: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Draft RIPE87 Minutes for Consideration [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Hi, On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 12:17:09PM +, Brian Nisbet wrote: > Please find attached the draft minutes from the WG Session at RIPE87. > > If you have any comments on the minutes, please email aa-wg-ch...@ripe.net > before the end of the first week of January. I do have a comment... and that is "can we have this in a reasonable and nonproprietary format, not known as a transport for viruses of all sorts"? We *do* train people to not klick on random attachments in e-mail. thanks, Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg
Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Draft RIPE87 Minutes for Consideration
It’s 2023 and Word is fairly commonly used by a lot of people. What format do you propose be used? -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ --- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 I have sent this email at a time that is convenient for me. I do not expect you to respond to it outside of your usual working hours. From: anti-abuse-wg on behalf of Gert Doering Date: Thursday, 21 December 2023 at 19:04 To: Brian Nisbet Cc: anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Draft RIPE87 Minutes for Consideration [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Please use caution when opening attachments from unrecognised sources. Hi, On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 12:17:09PM +, Brian Nisbet wrote: > Please find attached the draft minutes from the WG Session at RIPE87. > > If you have any comments on the minutes, please email aa-wg-ch...@ripe.net > before the end of the first week of January. I do have a comment... and that is "can we have this in a reasonable and nonproprietary format, not known as a transport for viruses of all sorts"? We *do* train people to not klick on random attachments in e-mail. thanks, Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg
Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Draft RIPE87 Minutes for Consideration
Hi, On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 12:17:09PM +, Brian Nisbet wrote: > Please find attached the draft minutes from the WG Session at RIPE87. > > If you have any comments on the minutes, please email aa-wg-ch...@ripe.net > before the end of the first week of January. I do have a comment... and that is "can we have this in a reasonable and nonproprietary format, not known as a transport for viruses of all sorts"? We *do* train people to not klick on random attachments in e-mail. thanks, Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/anti-abuse-wg
