Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
I ran into this recently too:
https://pytwolc.readthedocs.io/en/latest/index.html
I haven't looked at who wrote it, or looked closely at the whole thing, but
it looks fairly thorough.
--
Jonathan
On Tue, Sep 15, 2020, 10:57 Francis Tyers wrote:
> El 2020-09-14 07:27, Flammie A Pirinen escribió:
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 03:18:44PM +0200, Zanga Chimombo wrote:
> >> Hello again,
> >>
> >> I've had a bit of time to continue looking at this. I've copied over
> >> something from:
> >>
> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-lin/blob/master/apertium-lin.lin.twol
> >>
> >> %{K%}:k <=> :n :0 _ .#. ;
> >>
> >> But it's not working yet and I am not sure how to debug it. Is there
> >> an intro to twol online?
> >
> > I think the historical documents from Xerox at fsmbook.com (click on
> > the
> > newSoftware and agree to the the terms) and the original dissertation
> > by
> > Prof. Koskenniemi
> > are
> > quite good to understand the backgroudn.
> >
>
> It's also available online here:
>
> https://web.stanford.edu/~laurik/.book2software/twolc.pdf
>
> You can also check out one of my tutorials:
>
> https://ftyers.github.io/morphology/
>
> Fran
>
>
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>
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Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
El 2020-09-14 07:27, Flammie A Pirinen escribió:
On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 03:18:44PM +0200, Zanga Chimombo wrote:
Hello again,
I've had a bit of time to continue looking at this. I've copied over
something from:
https://github.com/apertium/apertium-lin/blob/master/apertium-lin.lin.twol
%{K%}:k <=> :n :0 _ .#. ;
But it's not working yet and I am not sure how to debug it. Is there
an intro to twol online?
I think the historical documents from Xerox at fsmbook.com (click on
the
newSoftware and agree to the the terms) and the original dissertation
by
Prof. Koskenniemi
are
quite good to understand the backgroudn.
It's also available online here:
https://web.stanford.edu/~laurik/.book2software/twolc.pdf
You can also check out one of my tutorials:
https://ftyers.github.io/morphology/
Fran
___
Apertium-stuff mailing list
Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 03:18:44PM +0200, Zanga Chimombo wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> I've had a bit of time to continue looking at this. I've copied over
> something from:
> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-lin/blob/master/apertium-lin.lin.twol
>
> %{K%}:k <=> :n :0 _ .#. ;
>
> But it's not working yet and I am not sure how to debug it. Is there
> an intro to twol online?
I think the historical documents from Xerox at fsmbook.com (click on the
newSoftware and agree to the the terms) and the original dissertation by
Prof. Koskenniemi
are
quite good to understand the backgroudn.
--
Tommi A Pirinen, Computational Linguist, Software engineer, etc.
, Divvun , giellatekno
. President of ACL SIGUR SIG for
Uralic languages
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
Great stuff, thanks!
On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 4:56 PM Daniel Swanson
wrote:
>
> Hi Zanga,
>
> The best introduction to writing twol rules that I'm aware of is at
> https://wikis.swarthmore.edu/ling073/Morphological_generator
>
> The #apertium and #hfst IRC channels are also good places.
>
> Daniel
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 8:19 AM Zanga Chimombo wrote:
>>
>> Hello again,
>>
>> I've had a bit of time to continue looking at this. I've copied over
>> something from:
>> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-lin/blob/master/apertium-lin.lin.twol
>>
>> %{K%}:k <=> :n :0 _ .#. ;
>>
>> But it's not working yet and I am not sure how to debug it. Is there
>> an intro to twol online?
>>
>> Rgds, Zanga.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 3:56 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't think you have to do anything with the modes or the compilation
>> > file. The problem is in the post-yao.dix file.
>> > If you add , it works:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > nk
>> > ng
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > $ echo "~nka" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin
>> > nga
>> > $ echo "~nkb" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin
>> > nkb
>> >
>> > I don't know why without there is no match, but in any case you need
>> > to add to the relevant places (words, affixes, etc.) you want to
>> > trigger this rule. If you want that always nk + vowel should be ng, you
>> > should this in twol, not here.
>> >
>> > Hèctor
>> >
>> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 d’ag.
>> > 2020 a les 15:41:
>> >>
>> >> I am still not getting anywhere and both modes.xml and the Makefile
>> >> seem ok. My code is here:
>> >> https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/tree/master/twoc/apertium-yao
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 7:36 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > The relevant files are modes.xml and Makefile.am I recommend taking a
>> >> > look to them in e.g. apertium-fra and apertium-fra-cat (or any other
>> >> > released pair using post-generation). In the first one you define the
>> >> > pipeline, so copy and adapt the call to autopgen in the end. In the
>> >> > second one you have the actual compilation of the programme.
>> >> >
>> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 d’ag.
>> >> > 2020 a les 7:52:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi again, I actually have:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> nk
>> >> >> ng
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But it doesn't seem to get executed. Is there a missing flag/ switch
>> >> >> that I was supposed to initialise/ build with? I am not seeing
>> >> >> anything relating to building autopgen in the modes.xml file in the
>> >> >> monolingual directory...?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:57 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Yes, it is in the monodix. It is just a mark put on the right side,
>> >> >> > e.g.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > que
>> >> >> > que que> >> >> > n="itg"/>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > If you want, you may not put it, but if you have in the post-dix
>> >> >> > file something like:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > nk
>> >> >> > ng
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ... then every nk will be substituted by ng. That is not what you
>> >> >> > want, for sure. So better to put a mark in the dictionnary to know
>> >> >> > which "nk" may be changed (in some contexts) to nk.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27
>> >> >> > d’ag. 2020 a les 15:18:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Looking at the examples in apertium-fra.post-fra.dix it is clear
>> >> >> >> that
>> >> >> >> the tilde/ ~/ is inserted as some sort of marker earlier in the
>> >> >> >> pipeline so that the PG recognises it and actions on it.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Where in the pipeline is it inserted? Could you give me a line
>> >> >> >> number
>> >> >> >> of the insertion within the monodix perhaps?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > You can take a look, for instance to
>> >> >> >> > https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra/blob/master/apertium-fra.post-fra.dix
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > For example (at line 633) :
>> >> >> >> > nen'
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font del dia
>> >> >> >> > dj., 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 13:07:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> There two things in:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> nk
>> >> >> >> >> ng
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> First is the that must precede (that's the ~ Kevin said
>> >> >> >> >> because it is shown as a tilde in the output). If you don't have
>> >> >> >> >> it, there won't be any matching.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Second, is the , i.e. a space. So nk- will not match, but
>> >> >> >> >> only nk followed by a blank (a preceded by an ). If
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
Hi Zanga,
The best introduction to writing twol rules that I'm aware of is at
https://wikis.swarthmore.edu/ling073/Morphological_generator
The #apertium and #hfst IRC channels are also good places.
Daniel
On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 8:19 AM Zanga Chimombo wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> I've had a bit of time to continue looking at this. I've copied over
> something from:
> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-lin/blob/master/apertium-lin.lin.twol
>
> %{K%}:k <=> :n :0 _ .#. ;
>
> But it's not working yet and I am not sure how to debug it. Is there
> an intro to twol online?
>
> Rgds, Zanga.
>
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 3:56 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font
> wrote:
> >
> > I don't think you have to do anything with the modes or the compilation
> file. The problem is in the post-yao.dix file.
> > If you add , it works:
> >
> >
> >
> > nk
> > ng
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > $ echo "~nka" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin
> > nga
> > $ echo "~nkb" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin
> > nkb
> >
> > I don't know why without there is no match, but in any case you
> need to add to the relevant places (words, affixes, etc.) you want to
> trigger this rule. If you want that always nk + vowel should be ng, you
> should this in twol, not here.
> >
> > Hèctor
> >
> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 d’ag.
> 2020 a les 15:41:
> >>
> >> I am still not getting anywhere and both modes.xml and the Makefile
> >> seem ok. My code is here:
> >> https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/tree/master/twoc/apertium-yao
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 7:36 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font <
> hectora...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > The relevant files are modes.xml and Makefile.am I recommend taking a
> look to them in e.g. apertium-fra and apertium-fra-cat (or any other
> released pair using post-generation). In the first one you define the
> pipeline, so copy and adapt the call to autopgen in the end. In the second
> one you have the actual compilation of the programme.
> >> >
> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28
> d’ag. 2020 a les 7:52:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi again, I actually have:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> nk
> >> >> ng
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> But it doesn't seem to get executed. Is there a missing flag/ switch
> >> >> that I was supposed to initialise/ build with? I am not seeing
> >> >> anything relating to building autopgen in the modes.xml file in the
> >> >> monolingual directory...?
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:57 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font <
> hectora...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yes, it is in the monodix. It is just a mark put on the right
> side, e.g.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > que
> >> >> > que que n="itg"/>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you want, you may not put it, but if you have in the post-dix
> file something like:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > nk
> >> >> > ng
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ... then every nk will be substituted by ng. That is not what you
> want, for sure. So better to put a mark in the dictionnary to know which
> "nk" may be changed (in some contexts) to nk.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27
> d’ag. 2020 a les 15:18:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Looking at the examples in apertium-fra.post-fra.dix it is clear
> that
> >> >> >> the tilde/ ~/ is inserted as some sort of marker earlier in
> the
> >> >> >> pipeline so that the PG recognises it and actions on it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Where in the pipeline is it inserted? Could you give me a line
> number
> >> >> >> of the insertion within the monodix perhaps?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > You can take a look, for instance to
> https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra/blob/master/apertium-fra.post-fra.dix
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > For example (at line 633) :
> >> >> >> > nen'
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font del dia
> dj., 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 13:07:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> There two things in:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> nk
> >> >> >> >> ng
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> First is the that must precede (that's the ~ Kevin said
> because it is shown as a tilde in the output). If you don't have it, there
> won't be any matching.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Second, is the , i.e. a space. So nk- will not match, but
> only nk followed by a blank (a preceded by an ). If matched, it will be
> replaced by ng followed by a blank to.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Hèctor
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia
> dj., 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 12:31:
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Not sure I know what you mean by "~"...? Sorry. I'm new to
> this
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> The input is "nkutenda". Expected output:
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
Hello again,
I've had a bit of time to continue looking at this. I've copied over
something from:
https://github.com/apertium/apertium-lin/blob/master/apertium-lin.lin.twol
%{K%}:k <=> :n :0 _ .#. ;
But it's not working yet and I am not sure how to debug it. Is there
an intro to twol online?
Rgds, Zanga.
On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 3:56 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font wrote:
>
> I don't think you have to do anything with the modes or the compilation file.
> The problem is in the post-yao.dix file.
> If you add , it works:
>
>
>
> nk
> ng
>
>
>
>
> $ echo "~nka" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin
> nga
> $ echo "~nkb" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin
> nkb
>
> I don't know why without there is no match, but in any case you need to
> add to the relevant places (words, affixes, etc.) you want to trigger
> this rule. If you want that always nk + vowel should be ng, you should this
> in twol, not here.
>
> Hèctor
>
> Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 d’ag. 2020
> a les 15:41:
>>
>> I am still not getting anywhere and both modes.xml and the Makefile
>> seem ok. My code is here:
>> https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/tree/master/twoc/apertium-yao
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 7:36 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > The relevant files are modes.xml and Makefile.am I recommend taking a look
>> > to them in e.g. apertium-fra and apertium-fra-cat (or any other released
>> > pair using post-generation). In the first one you define the pipeline, so
>> > copy and adapt the call to autopgen in the end. In the second one you have
>> > the actual compilation of the programme.
>> >
>> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 d’ag.
>> > 2020 a les 7:52:
>> >>
>> >> Hi again, I actually have:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> nk
>> >> ng
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> But it doesn't seem to get executed. Is there a missing flag/ switch
>> >> that I was supposed to initialise/ build with? I am not seeing
>> >> anything relating to building autopgen in the modes.xml file in the
>> >> monolingual directory...?
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:57 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, it is in the monodix. It is just a mark put on the right side, e.g.
>> >> >
>> >> > que
>> >> > que que> >> > n="itg"/>
>> >> >
>> >> > If you want, you may not put it, but if you have in the post-dix file
>> >> > something like:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > nk
>> >> > ng
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ... then every nk will be substituted by ng. That is not what you want,
>> >> > for sure. So better to put a mark in the dictionnary to know which "nk"
>> >> > may be changed (in some contexts) to nk.
>> >> >
>> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 d’ag.
>> >> > 2020 a les 15:18:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Looking at the examples in apertium-fra.post-fra.dix it is clear that
>> >> >> the tilde/ ~/ is inserted as some sort of marker earlier in the
>> >> >> pipeline so that the PG recognises it and actions on it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Where in the pipeline is it inserted? Could you give me a line number
>> >> >> of the insertion within the monodix perhaps?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You can take a look, for instance to
>> >> >> > https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra/blob/master/apertium-fra.post-fra.dix
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > For example (at line 633) :
>> >> >> > nen'
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font del dia dj.,
>> >> >> > 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 13:07:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> There two things in:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> nk
>> >> >> >> ng
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> First is the that must precede (that's the ~ Kevin said
>> >> >> >> because it is shown as a tilde in the output). If you don't have
>> >> >> >> it, there won't be any matching.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Second, is the , i.e. a space. So nk- will not match, but only
>> >> >> >> nk followed by a blank (a preceded by an ). If matched, it will
>> >> >> >> be replaced by ng followed by a blank to.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Hèctor
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27
>> >> >> >> d’ag. 2020 a les 12:31:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Not sure I know what you mean by "~"...? Sorry. I'm new to this
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> The input is "nkutenda". Expected output: "ngutenda".
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:26 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer
>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > Zanga Chimombo
>> >> >> >>> > čálii:
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > > One of the processes that occurs in one of the languages I am
>> >> >> >>> > > dealing
>> >> >> >>> > > with is "nk-" becoming "ng-"
>> >> >> >>> > >
>> >> >> >>> > > I thought I would be able to fix this using
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
Hi Héctor, The Wamesa analyser was written by me as a class project. I originally wrote it in lexc and then converted to lexd for comparison and then left it that way because one of the initial design goals of lexd was to get rid of everything that annoyed me about lexc. Daniel On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:56 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font wrote: > I'm glad to see that someone is working on an endangered austronesian > language. Who is he/she? I guess lexd/twol is used mostly for Wamesa > because of its phonotactics, isn't? Morphology seems not to be an issue as > big as in the other three languages. > Hèctor > > Missatge de Jonathan Washington del dia > ds., 29 d’ag. 2020 a les 17:27: > >> Hi Zanga, >> >> Given the highly agglutinative nature of Yao morphology, using dix to >> model it is probably not a great option. Also, as you and Hèctor have >> concluded, the morphophonology will be much easier to model using twol. >> >> Given the extent to which the morphology involves prefixes, lexc (what we >> traditionally use with twol) is probably also a poor choice for modeling >> the morphology. However, lexd was designed as a replacement for lexc for >> languages like Yao (and works well with twol). I think this is the route >> you should take. >> >> Documentation is available here: >> >> https://github.com/apertium/lexd/blob/master/Usage.md >> >> Some languages in Apertium whose morphologies are already implemented in >> lexd (none are entirely complete yet, but some are pretty far along): >> >> Swahili: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-swa >> Lingala: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-lin >> Nivkh: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-niv >> Wamesa: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-wad >> >> I probably forgot a few, but these should provide good models (and two >> are related to Yao). There are also a couple other languages being >> developed using lexd that aren't public (yet). >> >> And of course you can message this list if you have trouble, or ask in >> real time in the IRC channel. >> >> -- >> Jonathan >> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 02:30 Zanga Chimombo wrote: >> >>> Yes. I think I should be using twol >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 3:56 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > I don't think you have to do anything with the modes or the >>> compilation file. The problem is in the post-yao.dix file. >>> > If you add , it works: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > nk >>> > ng >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > $ echo "~nka" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin >>> > nga >>> > $ echo "~nkb" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin >>> > nkb >>> > >>> > I don't know why without there is no match, but in any case you >>> need to add to the relevant places (words, affixes, etc.) you want to >>> trigger this rule. If you want that always nk + vowel should be ng, you >>> should this in twol, not here. >>> > >>> > Hèctor >>> > >>> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 >>> d’ag. 2020 a les 15:41: >>> >> >>> >> I am still not getting anywhere and both modes.xml and the Makefile >>> >> seem ok. My code is here: >>> >> https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/tree/master/twoc/apertium-yao >>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 7:36 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font < >>> hectora...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > The relevant files are modes.xml and Makefile.am I recommend taking >>> a look to them in e.g. apertium-fra and apertium-fra-cat (or any other >>> released pair using post-generation). In the first one you define the >>> pipeline, so copy and adapt the call to autopgen in the end. In the second >>> one you have the actual compilation of the programme. >>> >> > >>> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 >>> d’ag. 2020 a les 7:52: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Hi again, I actually have: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> nk >>> >> >> ng >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> But it doesn't seem to get executed. Is there a missing flag/ >>> switch >>> >> >> that I was supposed to initialise/ build with? I am not seeing >>> >> >> anything relating to building autopgen in the modes.xml file in the >>> >> >> monolingual directory...? >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:57 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font < >>> hectora...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Yes, it is in the monodix. It is just a mark put on the right >>> side, e.g. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > que >>> >> >> > que que>> n="prn"/> >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > If you want, you may not put it, but if you have in the post-dix >>> file something like: >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > nk >>> >> >> > ng >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > ... then every nk will be substituted by ng. That is not what >>> you want, for sure. So better to put a mark in the dictionnary to know >>> which "nk" may be changed (in some contexts) to nk. >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj.,
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
I'm glad to see that someone is working on an endangered austronesian language. Who is he/she? I guess lexd/twol is used mostly for Wamesa because of its phonotactics, isn't? Morphology seems not to be an issue as big as in the other three languages. Hèctor Missatge de Jonathan Washington del dia ds., 29 d’ag. 2020 a les 17:27: > Hi Zanga, > > Given the highly agglutinative nature of Yao morphology, using dix to > model it is probably not a great option. Also, as you and Hèctor have > concluded, the morphophonology will be much easier to model using twol. > > Given the extent to which the morphology involves prefixes, lexc (what we > traditionally use with twol) is probably also a poor choice for modeling > the morphology. However, lexd was designed as a replacement for lexc for > languages like Yao (and works well with twol). I think this is the route > you should take. > > Documentation is available here: > > https://github.com/apertium/lexd/blob/master/Usage.md > > Some languages in Apertium whose morphologies are already implemented in > lexd (none are entirely complete yet, but some are pretty far along): > > Swahili: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-swa > Lingala: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-lin > Nivkh: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-niv > Wamesa: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-wad > > I probably forgot a few, but these should provide good models (and two are > related to Yao). There are also a couple other languages being developed > using lexd that aren't public (yet). > > And of course you can message this list if you have trouble, or ask in > real time in the IRC channel. > > -- > Jonathan > > On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 02:30 Zanga Chimombo wrote: > >> Yes. I think I should be using twol >> >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 3:56 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font >> wrote: >> > >> > I don't think you have to do anything with the modes or the compilation >> file. The problem is in the post-yao.dix file. >> > If you add , it works: >> > >> > >> > >> > nk >> > ng >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > $ echo "~nka" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin >> > nga >> > $ echo "~nkb" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin >> > nkb >> > >> > I don't know why without there is no match, but in any case you >> need to add to the relevant places (words, affixes, etc.) you want to >> trigger this rule. If you want that always nk + vowel should be ng, you >> should this in twol, not here. >> > >> > Hèctor >> > >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 >> d’ag. 2020 a les 15:41: >> >> >> >> I am still not getting anywhere and both modes.xml and the Makefile >> >> seem ok. My code is here: >> >> https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/tree/master/twoc/apertium-yao >> >> >> >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 7:36 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font < >> hectora...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > The relevant files are modes.xml and Makefile.am I recommend taking >> a look to them in e.g. apertium-fra and apertium-fra-cat (or any other >> released pair using post-generation). In the first one you define the >> pipeline, so copy and adapt the call to autopgen in the end. In the second >> one you have the actual compilation of the programme. >> >> > >> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 >> d’ag. 2020 a les 7:52: >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi again, I actually have: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> nk >> >> >> ng >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> But it doesn't seem to get executed. Is there a missing flag/ switch >> >> >> that I was supposed to initialise/ build with? I am not seeing >> >> >> anything relating to building autopgen in the modes.xml file in the >> >> >> monolingual directory...? >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:57 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font < >> hectora...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Yes, it is in the monodix. It is just a mark put on the right >> side, e.g. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > que >> >> >> > que que> n="itg"/> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > If you want, you may not put it, but if you have in the post-dix >> file something like: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > nk >> >> >> > ng >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > ... then every nk will be substituted by ng. That is not what you >> want, for sure. So better to put a mark in the dictionnary to know which >> "nk" may be changed (in some contexts) to nk. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., >> 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 15:18: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Looking at the examples in apertium-fra.post-fra.dix it is clear >> that >> >> >> >> the tilde/ ~/ is inserted as some sort of marker earlier in >> the >> >> >> >> pipeline so that the PG recognises it and actions on it. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Where in the pipeline is it inserted? Could you give me a line >> number >> >> >> >> of the insertion within the monodix perhaps? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
Hi Zanga, Given the highly agglutinative nature of Yao morphology, using dix to model it is probably not a great option. Also, as you and Hèctor have concluded, the morphophonology will be much easier to model using twol. Given the extent to which the morphology involves prefixes, lexc (what we traditionally use with twol) is probably also a poor choice for modeling the morphology. However, lexd was designed as a replacement for lexc for languages like Yao (and works well with twol). I think this is the route you should take. Documentation is available here: https://github.com/apertium/lexd/blob/master/Usage.md Some languages in Apertium whose morphologies are already implemented in lexd (none are entirely complete yet, but some are pretty far along): Swahili: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-swa Lingala: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-lin Nivkh: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-niv Wamesa: https://github.com/apertium/apertium-wad I probably forgot a few, but these should provide good models (and two are related to Yao). There are also a couple other languages being developed using lexd that aren't public (yet). And of course you can message this list if you have trouble, or ask in real time in the IRC channel. -- Jonathan On Sat, Aug 29, 2020, 02:30 Zanga Chimombo wrote: > Yes. I think I should be using twol > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 3:56 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font > wrote: > > > > I don't think you have to do anything with the modes or the compilation > file. The problem is in the post-yao.dix file. > > If you add , it works: > > > > > > > > nk > > ng > > > > > > > > > > $ echo "~nka" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin > > nga > > $ echo "~nkb" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin > > nkb > > > > I don't know why without there is no match, but in any case you > need to add to the relevant places (words, affixes, etc.) you want to > trigger this rule. If you want that always nk + vowel should be ng, you > should this in twol, not here. > > > > Hèctor > > > > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 d’ag. > 2020 a les 15:41: > >> > >> I am still not getting anywhere and both modes.xml and the Makefile > >> seem ok. My code is here: > >> https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/tree/master/twoc/apertium-yao > >> > >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 7:36 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font < > hectora...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > The relevant files are modes.xml and Makefile.am I recommend taking a > look to them in e.g. apertium-fra and apertium-fra-cat (or any other > released pair using post-generation). In the first one you define the > pipeline, so copy and adapt the call to autopgen in the end. In the second > one you have the actual compilation of the programme. > >> > > >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 > d’ag. 2020 a les 7:52: > >> >> > >> >> Hi again, I actually have: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> nk > >> >> ng > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> But it doesn't seem to get executed. Is there a missing flag/ switch > >> >> that I was supposed to initialise/ build with? I am not seeing > >> >> anything relating to building autopgen in the modes.xml file in the > >> >> monolingual directory...? > >> >> > >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:57 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font < > hectora...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > Yes, it is in the monodix. It is just a mark put on the right > side, e.g. > >> >> > > >> >> > que > >> >> > que que n="itg"/> > >> >> > > >> >> > If you want, you may not put it, but if you have in the post-dix > file something like: > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > nk > >> >> > ng > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > ... then every nk will be substituted by ng. That is not what you > want, for sure. So better to put a mark in the dictionnary to know which > "nk" may be changed (in some contexts) to nk. > >> >> > > >> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 > d’ag. 2020 a les 15:18: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Looking at the examples in apertium-fra.post-fra.dix it is clear > that > >> >> >> the tilde/ ~/ is inserted as some sort of marker earlier in > the > >> >> >> pipeline so that the PG recognises it and actions on it. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Where in the pipeline is it inserted? Could you give me a line > number > >> >> >> of the insertion within the monodix perhaps? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > You can take a look, for instance to > https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra/blob/master/apertium-fra.post-fra.dix > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > For example (at line 633) : > >> >> >> > nen' > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font del dia > dj., 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 13:07: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> There two things in: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> nk > >> >> >>
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
Yes. I think I should be using twol On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 3:56 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font wrote: > > I don't think you have to do anything with the modes or the compilation file. > The problem is in the post-yao.dix file. > If you add , it works: > > > > nk > ng > > > > > $ echo "~nka" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin > nga > $ echo "~nkb" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin > nkb > > I don't know why without there is no match, but in any case you need to > add to the relevant places (words, affixes, etc.) you want to trigger > this rule. If you want that always nk + vowel should be ng, you should this > in twol, not here. > > Hèctor > > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 d’ag. 2020 > a les 15:41: >> >> I am still not getting anywhere and both modes.xml and the Makefile >> seem ok. My code is here: >> https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/tree/master/twoc/apertium-yao >> >> On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 7:36 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font >> wrote: >> > >> > The relevant files are modes.xml and Makefile.am I recommend taking a look >> > to them in e.g. apertium-fra and apertium-fra-cat (or any other released >> > pair using post-generation). In the first one you define the pipeline, so >> > copy and adapt the call to autopgen in the end. In the second one you have >> > the actual compilation of the programme. >> > >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 d’ag. >> > 2020 a les 7:52: >> >> >> >> Hi again, I actually have: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> nk >> >> ng >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> But it doesn't seem to get executed. Is there a missing flag/ switch >> >> that I was supposed to initialise/ build with? I am not seeing >> >> anything relating to building autopgen in the modes.xml file in the >> >> monolingual directory...? >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:57 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Yes, it is in the monodix. It is just a mark put on the right side, e.g. >> >> > >> >> > que >> >> > que que> >> > n="itg"/> >> >> > >> >> > If you want, you may not put it, but if you have in the post-dix file >> >> > something like: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > nk >> >> > ng >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ... then every nk will be substituted by ng. That is not what you want, >> >> > for sure. So better to put a mark in the dictionnary to know which "nk" >> >> > may be changed (in some contexts) to nk. >> >> > >> >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 d’ag. >> >> > 2020 a les 15:18: >> >> >> >> >> >> Looking at the examples in apertium-fra.post-fra.dix it is clear that >> >> >> the tilde/ ~/ is inserted as some sort of marker earlier in the >> >> >> pipeline so that the PG recognises it and actions on it. >> >> >> >> >> >> Where in the pipeline is it inserted? Could you give me a line number >> >> >> of the insertion within the monodix perhaps? >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > You can take a look, for instance to >> >> >> > https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra/blob/master/apertium-fra.post-fra.dix >> >> >> > >> >> >> > For example (at line 633) : >> >> >> > nen' >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font del dia dj., >> >> >> > 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 13:07: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> There two things in: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> nk >> >> >> >> ng >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> First is the that must precede (that's the ~ Kevin said >> >> >> >> because it is shown as a tilde in the output). If you don't have >> >> >> >> it, there won't be any matching. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Second, is the , i.e. a space. So nk- will not match, but only >> >> >> >> nk followed by a blank (a preceded by an ). If matched, it will >> >> >> >> be replaced by ng followed by a blank to. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hèctor >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 >> >> >> >> d’ag. 2020 a les 12:31: >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> Not sure I know what you mean by "~"...? Sorry. I'm new to this >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> The input is "nkutenda". Expected output: "ngutenda". >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:26 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer >> >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > Zanga Chimombo >> >> >> >>> > čálii: >> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >>> > > One of the processes that occurs in one of the languages I am >> >> >> >>> > > dealing >> >> >> >>> > > with is "nk-" becoming "ng-" >> >> >> >>> > > >> >> >> >>> > > I thought I would be able to fix this using the post generator >> >> >> >>> > > here: >> >> >> >>> > > https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/blob/master/twoc/apertium-yao/apertium-yao.post-yao.dix >> >> >> >>> > > >> >> >> >>> > > However, that doesn't fix it. Have I done it incorrectly? >> >> >> >>> > > Should I
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
I don't think you have to do anything with the modes or the compilation file. The problem is in the post-yao.dix file. If you add , it works: nk ng $ echo "~nka" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin nga $ echo "~nkb" | lt-proc -p yao.autopgen.bin nkb I don't know why without there is no match, but in any case you need to add to the relevant places (words, affixes, etc.) you want to trigger this rule. If you want that always nk + vowel should be ng, you should this in twol, not here. Hèctor Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 d’ag. 2020 a les 15:41: > I am still not getting anywhere and both modes.xml and the Makefile > seem ok. My code is here: > https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/tree/master/twoc/apertium-yao > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 7:36 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font > wrote: > > > > The relevant files are modes.xml and Makefile.am I recommend taking a > look to them in e.g. apertium-fra and apertium-fra-cat (or any other > released pair using post-generation). In the first one you define the > pipeline, so copy and adapt the call to autopgen in the end. In the second > one you have the actual compilation of the programme. > > > > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 d’ag. > 2020 a les 7:52: > >> > >> Hi again, I actually have: > >> > >> > >> > >> nk > >> ng > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> But it doesn't seem to get executed. Is there a missing flag/ switch > >> that I was supposed to initialise/ build with? I am not seeing > >> anything relating to building autopgen in the modes.xml file in the > >> monolingual directory...? > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:57 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font < > hectora...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > Yes, it is in the monodix. It is just a mark put on the right side, > e.g. > >> > > >> > que > >> > que que n="itg"/> > >> > > >> > If you want, you may not put it, but if you have in the post-dix file > something like: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > nk > >> > ng > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ... then every nk will be substituted by ng. That is not what you > want, for sure. So better to put a mark in the dictionnary to know which > "nk" may be changed (in some contexts) to nk. > >> > > >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 > d’ag. 2020 a les 15:18: > >> >> > >> >> Looking at the examples in apertium-fra.post-fra.dix it is clear that > >> >> the tilde/ ~/ is inserted as some sort of marker earlier in the > >> >> pipeline so that the PG recognises it and actions on it. > >> >> > >> >> Where in the pipeline is it inserted? Could you give me a line number > >> >> of the insertion within the monodix perhaps? > >> >> > >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > You can take a look, for instance to > https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra/blob/master/apertium-fra.post-fra.dix > >> >> > > >> >> > For example (at line 633) : > >> >> > nen' > >> >> > > >> >> > Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font del dia > dj., 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 13:07: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> There two things in: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> nk > >> >> >> ng > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> First is the that must precede (that's the ~ Kevin said > because it is shown as a tilde in the output). If you don't have it, there > won't be any matching. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Second, is the , i.e. a space. So nk- will not match, but > only nk followed by a blank (a preceded by an ). If matched, it will be > replaced by ng followed by a blank to. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Hèctor > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., > 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 12:31: > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Not sure I know what you mean by "~"...? Sorry. I'm new to this > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> The input is "nkutenda". Expected output: "ngutenda". > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:26 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer > >> >> >>> wrote: > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > Zanga Chimombo > >> >> >>> > čálii: > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > One of the processes that occurs in one of the languages I > am dealing > >> >> >>> > > with is "nk-" becoming "ng-" > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>> > > I thought I would be able to fix this using the post > generator here: > >> >> >>> > > > https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/blob/master/twoc/apertium-yao/apertium-yao.post-yao.dix > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>> > > However, that doesn't fix it. Have I done it incorrectly? > Should I > >> >> >>> > > even be using PG to do this? > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > If there's a ~ before every nk, then I think that should > >> >> >>> > work. What's the exact input to pgen? > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > (There's an open issue on not requiring the > >> >> >>> > `~` https://github.com/apertium/lttoolbox/issues/42 ) > >> >> >>> > ___ > >> >> >>> >
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
I am still not getting anywhere and both modes.xml and the Makefile seem ok. My code is here: https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/tree/master/twoc/apertium-yao On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 7:36 AM Hèctor Alòs i Font wrote: > > The relevant files are modes.xml and Makefile.am I recommend taking a look to > them in e.g. apertium-fra and apertium-fra-cat (or any other released pair > using post-generation). In the first one you define the pipeline, so copy and > adapt the call to autopgen in the end. In the second one you have the actual > compilation of the programme. > > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 d’ag. 2020 > a les 7:52: >> >> Hi again, I actually have: >> >> >> >> nk >> ng >> >> >> >> >> But it doesn't seem to get executed. Is there a missing flag/ switch >> that I was supposed to initialise/ build with? I am not seeing >> anything relating to building autopgen in the modes.xml file in the >> monolingual directory...? >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:57 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font >> wrote: >> > >> > Yes, it is in the monodix. It is just a mark put on the right side, e.g. >> > >> > que >> > que que> > n="itg"/> >> > >> > If you want, you may not put it, but if you have in the post-dix file >> > something like: >> > >> > >> > >> > nk >> > ng >> > >> > >> > >> > ... then every nk will be substituted by ng. That is not what you want, >> > for sure. So better to put a mark in the dictionnary to know which "nk" >> > may be changed (in some contexts) to nk. >> > >> > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 d’ag. >> > 2020 a les 15:18: >> >> >> >> Looking at the examples in apertium-fra.post-fra.dix it is clear that >> >> the tilde/ ~/ is inserted as some sort of marker earlier in the >> >> pipeline so that the PG recognises it and actions on it. >> >> >> >> Where in the pipeline is it inserted? Could you give me a line number >> >> of the insertion within the monodix perhaps? >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > You can take a look, for instance to >> >> > https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra/blob/master/apertium-fra.post-fra.dix >> >> > >> >> > For example (at line 633) : >> >> > nen' >> >> > >> >> > Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font del dia dj., 27 >> >> > d’ag. 2020 a les 13:07: >> >> >> >> >> >> There two things in: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> nk >> >> >> ng >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> First is the that must precede (that's the ~ Kevin said because >> >> >> it is shown as a tilde in the output). If you don't have it, there >> >> >> won't be any matching. >> >> >> >> >> >> Second, is the , i.e. a space. So nk- will not match, but only nk >> >> >> followed by a blank (a preceded by an ). If matched, it will be >> >> >> replaced by ng followed by a blank to. >> >> >> >> >> >> Hèctor >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 >> >> >> d’ag. 2020 a les 12:31: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Not sure I know what you mean by "~"...? Sorry. I'm new to this >> >> >>> >> >> >>> The input is "nkutenda". Expected output: "ngutenda". >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:26 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer >> >> >>> wrote: >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > Zanga Chimombo >> >> >>> > čálii: >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > > One of the processes that occurs in one of the languages I am >> >> >>> > > dealing >> >> >>> > > with is "nk-" becoming "ng-" >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > I thought I would be able to fix this using the post generator >> >> >>> > > here: >> >> >>> > > https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/blob/master/twoc/apertium-yao/apertium-yao.post-yao.dix >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > However, that doesn't fix it. Have I done it incorrectly? Should I >> >> >>> > > even be using PG to do this? >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > If there's a ~ before every nk, then I think that should >> >> >>> > work. What's the exact input to pgen? >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > (There's an open issue on not requiring the >> >> >>> > `~` https://github.com/apertium/lttoolbox/issues/42 ) >> >> >>> > ___ >> >> >>> > Apertium-stuff mailing list >> >> >>> > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >> >> >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> ___ >> >> >>> Apertium-stuff mailing list >> >> >>> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >> >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff >> >> > >> >> > ___ >> >> > Apertium-stuff mailing list >> >> > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> Apertium-stuff mailing list >> >> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >> >>
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
The relevant files are modes.xml and Makefile.am I recommend taking a look to them in e.g. apertium-fra and apertium-fra-cat (or any other released pair using post-generation). In the first one you define the pipeline, so copy and adapt the call to autopgen in the end. In the second one you have the actual compilation of the programme. Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dv., 28 d’ag. 2020 a les 7:52: > Hi again, I actually have: > > > > nk > ng > > > > > But it doesn't seem to get executed. Is there a missing flag/ switch > that I was supposed to initialise/ build with? I am not seeing > anything relating to building autopgen in the modes.xml file in the > monolingual directory...? > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:57 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font > wrote: > > > > Yes, it is in the monodix. It is just a mark put on the right side, e.g. > > > > que > > que que n="itg"/> > > > > If you want, you may not put it, but if you have in the post-dix file > something like: > > > > > > > > nk > > ng > > > > > > > > ... then every nk will be substituted by ng. That is not what you want, > for sure. So better to put a mark in the dictionnary to know which "nk" may > be changed (in some contexts) to nk. > > > > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 d’ag. > 2020 a les 15:18: > >> > >> Looking at the examples in apertium-fra.post-fra.dix it is clear that > >> the tilde/ ~/ is inserted as some sort of marker earlier in the > >> pipeline so that the PG recognises it and actions on it. > >> > >> Where in the pipeline is it inserted? Could you give me a line number > >> of the insertion within the monodix perhaps? > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > You can take a look, for instance to > https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra/blob/master/apertium-fra.post-fra.dix > >> > > >> > For example (at line 633) : > >> > nen' > >> > > >> > Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font del dia dj., > 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 13:07: > >> >> > >> >> There two things in: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> nk > >> >> ng > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> First is the that must precede (that's the ~ Kevin said because > it is shown as a tilde in the output). If you don't have it, there won't be > any matching. > >> >> > >> >> Second, is the , i.e. a space. So nk- will not match, but only > nk followed by a blank (a preceded by an ). If matched, it will be > replaced by ng followed by a blank to. > >> >> > >> >> Hèctor > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 > d’ag. 2020 a les 12:31: > >> >>> > >> >>> Not sure I know what you mean by "~"...? Sorry. I'm new to this > >> >>> > >> >>> The input is "nkutenda". Expected output: "ngutenda". > >> >>> > >> >>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:26 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Zanga Chimombo > >> >>> > čálii: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > One of the processes that occurs in one of the languages I am > dealing > >> >>> > > with is "nk-" becoming "ng-" > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > I thought I would be able to fix this using the post generator > here: > >> >>> > > > https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/blob/master/twoc/apertium-yao/apertium-yao.post-yao.dix > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > However, that doesn't fix it. Have I done it incorrectly? > Should I > >> >>> > > even be using PG to do this? > >> >>> > > >> >>> > If there's a ~ before every nk, then I think that should > >> >>> > work. What's the exact input to pgen? > >> >>> > > >> >>> > (There's an open issue on not requiring the > >> >>> > `~` https://github.com/apertium/lttoolbox/issues/42 ) > >> >>> > ___ > >> >>> > Apertium-stuff mailing list > >> >>> > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > >> >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> ___ > >> >>> Apertium-stuff mailing list > >> >>> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > >> > > >> > ___ > >> > Apertium-stuff mailing list > >> > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> Apertium-stuff mailing list > >> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > > > > ___ > > Apertium-stuff mailing list > > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > > > ___ > Apertium-stuff mailing list > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff >
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
Hi again, I actually have: nk ng But it doesn't seem to get executed. Is there a missing flag/ switch that I was supposed to initialise/ build with? I am not seeing anything relating to building autopgen in the modes.xml file in the monolingual directory...? On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 2:57 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font wrote: > > Yes, it is in the monodix. It is just a mark put on the right side, e.g. > > que > que que n="mf"/> > > If you want, you may not put it, but if you have in the post-dix file > something like: > > > > nk > ng > > > > ... then every nk will be substituted by ng. That is not what you want, for > sure. So better to put a mark in the dictionnary to know which "nk" may be > changed (in some contexts) to nk. > > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 d’ag. 2020 > a les 15:18: >> >> Looking at the examples in apertium-fra.post-fra.dix it is clear that >> the tilde/ ~/ is inserted as some sort of marker earlier in the >> pipeline so that the PG recognises it and actions on it. >> >> Where in the pipeline is it inserted? Could you give me a line number >> of the insertion within the monodix perhaps? >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font >> wrote: >> > >> > You can take a look, for instance to >> > https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra/blob/master/apertium-fra.post-fra.dix >> > >> > For example (at line 633) : >> > nen' >> > >> > Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font del dia dj., 27 >> > d’ag. 2020 a les 13:07: >> >> >> >> There two things in: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> nk >> >> ng >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> First is the that must precede (that's the ~ Kevin said because it >> >> is shown as a tilde in the output). If you don't have it, there won't be >> >> any matching. >> >> >> >> Second, is the , i.e. a space. So nk- will not match, but only nk >> >> followed by a blank (a preceded by an ). If matched, it will be >> >> replaced by ng followed by a blank to. >> >> >> >> Hèctor >> >> >> >> >> >> Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 d’ag. >> >> 2020 a les 12:31: >> >>> >> >>> Not sure I know what you mean by "~"...? Sorry. I'm new to this >> >>> >> >>> The input is "nkutenda". Expected output: "ngutenda". >> >>> >> >>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:26 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer >> >>> wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> > Zanga Chimombo >> >>> > čálii: >> >>> > >> >>> > > One of the processes that occurs in one of the languages I am dealing >> >>> > > with is "nk-" becoming "ng-" >> >>> > > >> >>> > > I thought I would be able to fix this using the post generator here: >> >>> > > https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/blob/master/twoc/apertium-yao/apertium-yao.post-yao.dix >> >>> > > >> >>> > > However, that doesn't fix it. Have I done it incorrectly? Should I >> >>> > > even be using PG to do this? >> >>> > >> >>> > If there's a ~ before every nk, then I think that should >> >>> > work. What's the exact input to pgen? >> >>> > >> >>> > (There's an open issue on not requiring the >> >>> > `~` https://github.com/apertium/lttoolbox/issues/42 ) >> >>> > ___ >> >>> > Apertium-stuff mailing list >> >>> > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >> >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ___ >> >>> Apertium-stuff mailing list >> >>> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff >> > >> > ___ >> > Apertium-stuff mailing list >> > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff >> >> >> ___ >> Apertium-stuff mailing list >> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > > ___ > Apertium-stuff mailing list > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
Looking at the examples in apertium-fra.post-fra.dix it is clear that the tilde/ ~/ is inserted as some sort of marker earlier in the pipeline so that the PG recognises it and actions on it. Where in the pipeline is it inserted? Could you give me a line number of the insertion within the monodix perhaps? On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font wrote: > > You can take a look, for instance to > https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra/blob/master/apertium-fra.post-fra.dix > > For example (at line 633) : > nen' > > Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font del dia dj., 27 d’ag. > 2020 a les 13:07: >> >> There two things in: >> >> >> >> nk >> ng >> >> >> >> First is the that must precede (that's the ~ Kevin said because it is >> shown as a tilde in the output). If you don't have it, there won't be any >> matching. >> >> Second, is the , i.e. a space. So nk- will not match, but only nk >> followed by a blank (a preceded by an ). If matched, it will be replaced >> by ng followed by a blank to. >> >> Hèctor >> >> >> Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 d’ag. 2020 >> a les 12:31: >>> >>> Not sure I know what you mean by "~"...? Sorry. I'm new to this >>> >>> The input is "nkutenda". Expected output: "ngutenda". >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:26 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Zanga Chimombo >>> > čálii: >>> > >>> > > One of the processes that occurs in one of the languages I am dealing >>> > > with is "nk-" becoming "ng-" >>> > > >>> > > I thought I would be able to fix this using the post generator here: >>> > > https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/blob/master/twoc/apertium-yao/apertium-yao.post-yao.dix >>> > > >>> > > However, that doesn't fix it. Have I done it incorrectly? Should I >>> > > even be using PG to do this? >>> > >>> > If there's a ~ before every nk, then I think that should >>> > work. What's the exact input to pgen? >>> > >>> > (There's an open issue on not requiring the >>> > `~` https://github.com/apertium/lttoolbox/issues/42 ) >>> > ___ >>> > Apertium-stuff mailing list >>> > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Apertium-stuff mailing list >>> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > > ___ > Apertium-stuff mailing list > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
Great. Thanks! On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:12 PM Hèctor Alòs i Font wrote: > > You can take a look, for instance to > https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra/blob/master/apertium-fra.post-fra.dix > > For example (at line 633) : > nen' > > Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font del dia dj., 27 d’ag. > 2020 a les 13:07: >> >> There two things in: >> >> >> >> nk >> ng >> >> >> >> First is the that must precede (that's the ~ Kevin said because it is >> shown as a tilde in the output). If you don't have it, there won't be any >> matching. >> >> Second, is the , i.e. a space. So nk- will not match, but only nk >> followed by a blank (a preceded by an ). If matched, it will be replaced >> by ng followed by a blank to. >> >> Hèctor >> >> >> Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 d’ag. 2020 >> a les 12:31: >>> >>> Not sure I know what you mean by "~"...? Sorry. I'm new to this >>> >>> The input is "nkutenda". Expected output: "ngutenda". >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:26 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Zanga Chimombo >>> > čálii: >>> > >>> > > One of the processes that occurs in one of the languages I am dealing >>> > > with is "nk-" becoming "ng-" >>> > > >>> > > I thought I would be able to fix this using the post generator here: >>> > > https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/blob/master/twoc/apertium-yao/apertium-yao.post-yao.dix >>> > > >>> > > However, that doesn't fix it. Have I done it incorrectly? Should I >>> > > even be using PG to do this? >>> > >>> > If there's a ~ before every nk, then I think that should >>> > work. What's the exact input to pgen? >>> > >>> > (There's an open issue on not requiring the >>> > `~` https://github.com/apertium/lttoolbox/issues/42 ) >>> > ___ >>> > Apertium-stuff mailing list >>> > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Apertium-stuff mailing list >>> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > > ___ > Apertium-stuff mailing list > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
You can take a look, for instance to https://github.com/apertium/apertium-fra/blob/master/apertium-fra.post-fra.dix For example (at line 633) : nen' Missatge de Hèctor Alòs i Font del dia dj., 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 13:07: > There two things in: > > nkng > > > First is the that must precede (that's the ~ Kevin said because it is > shown as a tilde in the output). If you don't have it, there won't be any > matching. > > Second, is the , i.e. a space. So nk- will not match, but only nk > followed by a blank (a preceded by an ). If matched, it will be > replaced by ng followed by a blank to. > > Hèctor > > > Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 d’ag. > 2020 a les 12:31: > >> Not sure I know what you mean by "~"...? Sorry. I'm new to this >> >> The input is "nkutenda". Expected output: "ngutenda". >> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:26 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer >> wrote: >> > >> > Zanga Chimombo >> > čálii: >> > >> > > One of the processes that occurs in one of the languages I am dealing >> > > with is "nk-" becoming "ng-" >> > > >> > > I thought I would be able to fix this using the post generator here: >> > > >> https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/blob/master/twoc/apertium-yao/apertium-yao.post-yao.dix >> > > >> > > However, that doesn't fix it. Have I done it incorrectly? Should I >> > > even be using PG to do this? >> > >> > If there's a ~ before every nk, then I think that should >> > work. What's the exact input to pgen? >> > >> > (There's an open issue on not requiring the >> > `~` https://github.com/apertium/lttoolbox/issues/42 ) >> > ___ >> > Apertium-stuff mailing list >> > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff >> >> >> ___ >> Apertium-stuff mailing list >> Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff >> > ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
There two things in: nkng First is the that must precede (that's the ~ Kevin said because it is shown as a tilde in the output). If you don't have it, there won't be any matching. Second, is the , i.e. a space. So nk- will not match, but only nk followed by a blank (a preceded by an ). If matched, it will be replaced by ng followed by a blank to. Hèctor Missatge de Zanga Chimombo del dia dj., 27 d’ag. 2020 a les 12:31: > Not sure I know what you mean by "~"...? Sorry. I'm new to this > > The input is "nkutenda". Expected output: "ngutenda". > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:26 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer > wrote: > > > > Zanga Chimombo > > čálii: > > > > > One of the processes that occurs in one of the languages I am dealing > > > with is "nk-" becoming "ng-" > > > > > > I thought I would be able to fix this using the post generator here: > > > > https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/blob/master/twoc/apertium-yao/apertium-yao.post-yao.dix > > > > > > However, that doesn't fix it. Have I done it incorrectly? Should I > > > even be using PG to do this? > > > > If there's a ~ before every nk, then I think that should > > work. What's the exact input to pgen? > > > > (There's an open issue on not requiring the > > `~` https://github.com/apertium/lttoolbox/issues/42 ) > > ___ > > Apertium-stuff mailing list > > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > > > ___ > Apertium-stuff mailing list > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff > ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
Not sure I know what you mean by "~"...? Sorry. I'm new to this The input is "nkutenda". Expected output: "ngutenda". On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:26 AM Kevin Brubeck Unhammer wrote: > > Zanga Chimombo > čálii: > > > One of the processes that occurs in one of the languages I am dealing > > with is "nk-" becoming "ng-" > > > > I thought I would be able to fix this using the post generator here: > > https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/blob/master/twoc/apertium-yao/apertium-yao.post-yao.dix > > > > However, that doesn't fix it. Have I done it incorrectly? Should I > > even be using PG to do this? > > If there's a ~ before every nk, then I think that should > work. What's the exact input to pgen? > > (There's an open issue on not requiring the > `~` https://github.com/apertium/lttoolbox/issues/42 ) > ___ > Apertium-stuff mailing list > Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
Re: [Apertium-stuff] Fixing Phonological Processes
Zanga Chimombo čálii: > One of the processes that occurs in one of the languages I am dealing > with is "nk-" becoming "ng-" > > I thought I would be able to fix this using the post generator here: > https://gitlab.com/zangaphee/CiBantu/-/blob/master/twoc/apertium-yao/apertium-yao.post-yao.dix > > However, that doesn't fix it. Have I done it incorrectly? Should I > even be using PG to do this? If there's a ~ before every nk, then I think that should work. What's the exact input to pgen? (There's an open issue on not requiring the `~` https://github.com/apertium/lttoolbox/issues/42 ) signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Apertium-stuff mailing list Apertium-stuff@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
