Re: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER
Bees did not evolve living in square boxes True, they evolved living in randomly spaced holes in trees. I find it hard to believe that square is worse than any other random shape. The earlier point about the size of the foundation being too large seems like a more plausible stressor, as do moving the hives around, exposure to various pesticides (including Bt pollen), potential new viruses, etc. Personally, I'm most worried because the tree guys called and said they plan to do a second spray tomorrow, but my apples and blueberries are in full bloom, and I also have weather that's warm and dry enough that the bees would be tempted to drink droplets of spinosad-laced water on the trees. I need to call the tree people first thing tomorrow AM and say please wait. Ginda On May 13, 2007, at 8:36 PM, Nadean Summers wrote: Bees did not evolve living in square boxes, and for a human to believe he can think like a bee is probably somewhat shortsighted also that is only one adjustment in the way they have to live. It may not be mistreatment but what about poisoning, loss of native flowering habitat,genetically altered crops, etc,etc. Whether good or bad they have had to go through some substantial changes since man started dealing with them. Jim Friedler -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Philip Smith Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:43 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER I find it difficult to believe that giving bees a square house to live in constitutes some sort of maltreatment. Were I a bee, I'd be tickled pink that someone had provided a roomy, fairly tight house complete with foundations upon which I could build a comb. Philip Smith - Original Message - From: alan surprenant To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:56 AM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER bees, bees, bees, so much on our minds these days and well they should be (no pun intended). for those with the inclination and the time (perhaps a rainy day), a small booklet i read many years ago has altered my whole relationship to the bees in my orchard. The Bee Lectures (1922?) given by Rudolf Steiner to a gathering of beekeepers in germany. In these lectures Steiner predicts the situation(s) we find ourselves in today with the bees. the questions raised by D. Del Boca are good ones and here are several more raised by Steiner to the bee keepers of his day. (1) what are the long-term effects of 'forcing' a spiral living entity into the square box shape of the modern day hive? ever watch a swarm? or uncover a bee hive in a tree trunk? watch how cells are created? all spirals. (2) what are the effects of raising bees primarily for honey production (as related to feeding, breeding queens, how we harvest honey, the use of miticides etc). (3) if indeed our manipulation of the bee does result in lowering immunity, what will the effects of that be? (i think of varoa and tracheal mites, of hive collapse). i'm not trying to open up a debate on who's right and who's wrong about the reasons our bees are in the state they are now. i'm trying to add to the information and understanding that we all have to work with while dealing with this situatiion. the health of the bees is of utmost importance, we all know that already. what we can do as growers, researchers, and/or beekeepers to help the bees,is for me, the important task at hand. thank you(this list serve)for the information on keeping water avaliable and the effects temps have on pollination and bee activity. alan surprenant brook farm orchard ashfield, massachusetts From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 16:21:40 -0700 And what of the previous question regarding predation on honey bees by wasps and yellow jackets, hornets? A few more questions while we have the topic: Is it true that honey bees are being genetically morphed to be single-purpose creatures (super-pollinators); that is they no longer are capable of multiple functions such as making honey, feeding the queen, maintaining the hives, extending the species, etc.? What is the impact on the immune system of honey bees from the stress of being trucked coast to coast in 18-wheelers, industrial style, by large, commercial beekeepers and being fed only high fructose corn syrup enroute? I know that applicators restrict the time of their entry into fields being pollinated to minimize kills, but what can you tell us, in a larger way, about the genetic or colonial impacts of pesticides and genetically altered organisms that have been artificially spliced into many
Re: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER
Oops - sorry, I sent this to the wrong list. There's also a discussion of honey bee troubles on the NAFEX list, and I didn't read the header info carefully enough. Ginda Fisher backyard gardener and apple consumer in Massachusetts, with a serious winter moth problem in my apples and oaks. On May 13, 2007, at 10:49 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bees did not evolve living in square boxes True, they evolved living in randomly spaced holes in trees. I find it hard to believe that square is worse than any other random shape. The earlier point about the size of the foundation being too large seems like a more plausible stressor, as do moving the hives around, exposure to various pesticides (including Bt pollen), potential new viruses, etc. Personally, I'm most worried because the tree guys called and said they plan to do a second spray tomorrow, but my apples and blueberries are in full bloom, and I also have weather that's warm and dry enough that the bees would be tempted to drink droplets of spinosad-laced water on the trees. I need to call the tree people first thing tomorrow AM and say please wait. Ginda On May 13, 2007, at 8:36 PM, Nadean Summers wrote: Bees did not evolve living in square boxes, and for a human to believe he can think like a bee is probably somewhat shortsighted also that is only one adjustment in the way they have to live. It may not be mistreatment but what about poisoning, loss of native flowering habitat,genetically altered crops, etc,etc. Whether good or bad they have had to go through some substantial changes since man started dealing with them. Jim Friedler -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Philip Smith Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:43 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER I find it difficult to believe that giving bees a square house to live in constitutes some sort of maltreatment. Were I a bee, I'd be tickled pink that someone had provided a roomy, fairly tight house complete with foundations upon which I could build a comb. Philip Smith - Original Message - From: alan surprenant To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:56 AM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER bees, bees, bees, so much on our minds these days and well they should be (no pun intended). for those with the inclination and the time (perhaps a rainy day), a small booklet i read many years ago has altered my whole relationship to the bees in my orchard. The Bee Lectures (1922?) given by Rudolf Steiner to a gathering of beekeepers in germany. In these lectures Steiner predicts the situation(s) we find ourselves in today with the bees. the questions raised by D. Del Boca are good ones and here are several more raised by Steiner to the bee keepers of his day. (1) what are the long-term effects of 'forcing' a spiral living entity into the square box shape of the modern day hive? ever watch a swarm? or uncover a bee hive in a tree trunk? watch how cells are created? all spirals. (2) what are the effects of raising bees primarily for honey production (as related to feeding, breeding queens, how we harvest honey, the use of miticides etc). (3) if indeed our manipulation of the bee does result in lowering immunity, what will the effects of that be? (i think of varoa and tracheal mites, of hive collapse). i'm not trying to open up a debate on who's right and who's wrong about the reasons our bees are in the state they are now. i'm trying to add to the information and understanding that we all have to work with while dealing with this situatiion. the health of the bees is of utmost importance, we all know that already. what we can do as growers, researchers, and/or beekeepers to help the bees,is for me, the important task at hand. thank you(this list serve)for the information on keeping water avaliable and the effects temps have on pollination and bee activity. alan surprenant brook farm orchard ashfield, massachusetts From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 16:21:40 -0700 And what of the previous question regarding predation on honey bees by wasps and yellow jackets, hornets? A few more questions while we have the topic: Is it true that honey bees are being genetically morphed to be single-purpose creatures (super-pollinators); that is they no longer are capable of multiple functions such as making honey, feeding the queen, maintaining the hives, extending the species, etc.? What is the impact on the immune system of honey bees from the stress of being trucked coast to coast in 18-wheelers, industrial style, by large
