Re: [arch-general] [arch-dev-public] Switching the bugtracker to Bugzilla

[Geo Kozey via arch-general]

> From: Jelle van der Waa 
> Sent: Tue Nov 21 10:36:08 CET 2017
> To: General Discussion about Arch Linux 
> Subject: Re: [arch-general] [arch-dev-public] Switching the bugtracker to 
> Bugzilla
> 
> 
> I'm quiet happy that we are still running everything on our (community
> sponsored) infrastructure without relying on third party's. This has a
> lot of benefits, we own the data, we can migrate freely to an
> alternative and we don't rely on externals messing things up or changing
> their offering.
> 
> A sponsored hosted platform sounds amazing, but having a
> vendor lock in isn't really :-)
> 
> -- 
> Jelle van der Waa
> 

That also means you have to manage everything on your own. As Arch is quite 
constrained on human resources this is rather huge dis-benefit. More and more 
projects like gnome or debian are migrating to something like gitlab/github so 
the advantages are real.

Thinking strategically, moving to bugzilla will be one step forward but it 
still leaves Arch on relative backwardness. Why don't take two steps at once 
instead? Migrating one service will make migrating others easier. I know that 
Arch devs main priority as pure volunteer project is to minimize effort however 
it involves danger of being left in obscurity and quite unmanageable state. In 
the end moving faster may require less effort.

The whole web is going to vendor lock-in model and it isn't really obvious that 
staying out is better choice.

G. K.

Re: [arch-general] [arch-dev-public] Switching the bugtracker to Bugzilla

[Jelle van der Waa]

On 11/21/17 at 09:23am, Óscar García Amor wrote:
> 2017-11-19 18:54 GMT+01:00 Bartłomiej Piotrowski :
> > On 2017-11-19 17:58, William Gathoye wrote:
> >> I'll be using Gitlab professionally on Arch Linux. So as soon I become a
> >> TU (if it happen the Arch Linux community accepts me ;)) I think I'll
> >> help Sven-Hendrik Haase in this process. Packaging Gitlab as a single
> >> person is indeed a hard task.
> >
> > There is more to reliability of service than correct and reliable
> > packaging. By any means Gitlab isn't "fire & forget" type of project and
> > with my infra team hat on, I'm completely unwilling to spend my evenings
> > or lunches on making sure it's running properly.
> 
> Why don't talk with GitLab people to get a free hosted solution? As
> you can see in his page[1] they offer "the very best full gold plan of
> the death" to Open Source projects. In this way you can devote your
> resources to other tasks and forget the Git/GitLab administration.


I'm quiet happy that we are still running everything on our (community
sponsored) infrastructure without relying on third party's. This has a
lot of benefits, we own the data, we can migrate freely to an
alternative and we don't rely on externals messing things up or changing
their offering.

A sponsored hosted platform sounds amazing, but having a
vendor lock in isn't really :-)

-- 
Jelle van der Waa


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Re: [arch-general] [arch-dev-public] Switching the bugtracker to Bugzilla

[Óscar García Amor]

2017-11-19 18:54 GMT+01:00 Bartłomiej Piotrowski :
> On 2017-11-19 17:58, William Gathoye wrote:
>> I'll be using Gitlab professionally on Arch Linux. So as soon I become a
>> TU (if it happen the Arch Linux community accepts me ;)) I think I'll
>> help Sven-Hendrik Haase in this process. Packaging Gitlab as a single
>> person is indeed a hard task.
>
> There is more to reliability of service than correct and reliable
> packaging. By any means Gitlab isn't "fire & forget" type of project and
> with my infra team hat on, I'm completely unwilling to spend my evenings
> or lunches on making sure it's running properly.

Why don't talk with GitLab people to get a free hosted solution? As
you can see in his page[1] they offer "the very best full gold plan of
the death" to Open Source projects. In this way you can devote your
resources to other tasks and forget the Git/GitLab administration.

Greetings.

[1]:https://about.gitlab.com/gitlab-com/

-- 
Óscar García Amor | ogarcia at moire.org | http://ogarcia.me

Re: [arch-general] [arch-dev-public] Switching the bugtracker to Bugzilla

[Bartłomiej Piotrowski]

On 2017-11-19 20:11, Jerome Leclanche wrote:
> I've refrained from commenting on this topic because I don't want to
> sound ungrateful people are taking the time to work on a fairly
> extensive migration off flyspray, but I'm not looking forward to
> Bugzilla (and I've contributed to a lot of Bugzilla-based projects in
> the past). It has the same mindset as Jira, making filing an issue a
> similar endeavour as filing taxes and creating artificial meta-work
> for both users and triagers.
> I strongly agree something like Gogs or Gitlab would be a much better
> path forward. Especially if, as Jelle was initially saying, the goal
> is for it to be "extended to our wishes".
> Furthermore, Gitlab has native support for federated login which we
> seriously could start using. Separate logins for bug tracker, BBS AUR,
> wiki, archweb and all the mailing lists is... eh.
> 
> J. Leclanche
> 

This is example of wishful thinking and misunderstanding what our
requirements are. Reporting anything on Bugzilla isn't different from
using Flyspray, and we're far from "the most friendly distribution of
the year" title anyway.

Neither Gogs or Gitlab are primarily issue trackers and I hope you
noticed that we're not discussing integrated code hosting solution.

Calling Gogs extendable is overstatement. As far as I know, Gitlab
supports external authentication providers only in the enterprise
edition. Even if something has changed about it recently, somehow I
doubt you're going to join #archlinux-devops tomorrow and say that
you're eager to both maintain Gitlab and LDAP deployments, and then
figure out LDAP integration everywhere.

Let's just be realistic about what we need and what we can accomplish.

Bartłomiej