Re: high school economics
In a message dated 6/27/2002 6:00:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It would be hard to teach high school students to think like economists since there is a time constraint. A year's course in economics can give you the basics but it not transform them to homo economicus-es. Depends on the student and teacher! Last summer, as a rising senior in high school, I took a three-week course in micro under Professor Allen Sanderson at the University of Chicago. Please don't scoff when I say that in those three weeks I learned to appreciate economics and economic rationality very thoroughly indeed -- so thoroughly that I joined a mailing list about it. (And can follow the discussions!) Mind you, I don't claim that any student under any teacher can become as enthused about economics as I did last summer. If all high school economics teachers were as fascinating as Professor Sanderson, we wouldn't even need to have this discussion! But I've no doubt that a decent teacher with an inquisitive pupil can accomplish a lot in a year. --Brian
Re: high school economics
markjohn wrote: > . . . A year's course in economics can give you > the basics but it not transform them to homo economicus-es. Homines economici, in case anyone wanted to know. -- Anton Sherwood, http://www.ogre.nu/
Re: high school economics
> >Judging from the market for texts, I am probably alone in believing that >most micro texts have it wrong. At the principles level we do not need to >be producing students who have a tenuous understanding of what Ph.D. >economics students learn. Instead, we should be teaching students how to >think like economists. Opportunity cost, gains from trade, how markets >work, substitution possiblities in consumption and increasing opportunity >cost in production, efficiency, market power and lack thereof, market >failure etc. (The intermediate level is a whole different story.) It would be hard to teach high school students to think like economists since there is a time constraint. A year's course in economics can give you the basics but it not transform them to homo economicus-es. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.295 / Virus Database: 159 - Release Date: 11/1/2001
Re: high school economics
Jeffrey Rous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "Thanks for listening to me rant." That's the nicest rant I've ever read--you must be a great guy. "Instead, we should be teaching students how to think like economists." That's what I was kinda hoping to get at; I defer to your choice of text, I really am not very familiar with alot of text books. I must defend two things, however. First, some watered down Ph.D. concepts, I feel, are valuable for thinking in an intuitively economic fashion. For example, I have heard myriad times that economics can be dismissed out of hand because people simply are not rational: Jeffery Dahmer ate people, that's not rational; schitzophrenics hallucinate, that's not rational; people smoke cigarettes even though it'll give them cancer, that's not rational; the examples could go on. Yet the reality is that while these may all be examples of irrational in the vulgar sense, they do not imply irrational in the economic sense. Economics educators have kept secret the definition of the fundamental concept of economic behavior: rationality. Yet this concept is completely exoteric! I have complete faith that the average high school student can understand it intuitively, and that the more people who understand the concept the greater the respect for economics in society at large. Second, economics is under assault in the same way that science is under assault. (Peruse "The Flight >From Science and Reason" edited by Paul Gross to get a fuller understanding of what I mean.) Physics in under assault by social constructionists and literary theorists who maintain that there IS NO REALITY, only that constructed by the white men who do science, hence scientific facts are actually "facts" that represent a certain viewpoint. Medical science is under assault by faith healers--theraputic touch, anyone? Afrocentrics pervert the historic record for racial reasons. Feminists assert the validity of feminist epitsemology, wholly seperate from what science and philosophy teach, thus they can assert the existence of a goddess religion that predates any male god, that was inherently good and gently because it was a feminine religion, and that allowed humans to live an eden-like existence for millenia before those pesky male gods showed up. You can't contradict them by pointing out the logical inconsistencies and paucity of empirical evidence, they know it intuitively--and they're right! because feminist epistemology says so. There are alot of people who sincerely believe that bringing down trade barriers is terribly harmful (yet they never explain why Iraq's economy isn't going gangbusters right now), and that capitalism is the root of all evil. Economics instructors need to nip this in the bud, or pretty soon we'll be forced to authors books with titles like "The Flight From Economics and Reason." Whew! Thanks for listening to MY rant! Best to you and yours, jsh = "...for no one admits that he incurs an obligation to another merely because that other has done him no wrong." -Machiavelli, Discourses on Livy, Discourse 16. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: high school economics
I think most of us would agree that any high school economics class should focus on
the basics and be as intuitive as possible. However, two things stand in the way. Few
high school teachers understand economics well enough to to know what the basics are,
let alone have the understanding necessary to teach the material intuitively. Second,
one important goal of a high school course is preparation for the AP test. I bet the
test measures how well students have learned the watered-down, mechanical, graduate
school version of economics that most introductory texts pass off as the _principles_
of economics.
The short run answer is that the teachers need to use a book that they can teach, and
that will give the students what they need. I am going to put my vote in for Mankiw.
He knows how to keep it simple yet still covers the important stuff like comparative
advantage and efficiency that many texts skip (I am referring to Micro here since I
have never taught Macro principles).
The long run solutin is to do a better job at the principles level so that future
teachers and designers fo the AP test better understand economics.
Judging from the market for texts, I am probably alone in believing that most micro
texts have it wrong. At the principles level we do not need to be producing students
who have a tenuous understanding of what Ph.D. economics students learn. Instead, we
should be teaching students how to think like economists. Opportunity cost, gains from
trade, how markets work, substitution possiblities in consumption and increasing
opportunity cost in production, efficiency, market power and lack thereof, market
failure etc. (The intermediate level is a whole different story.)
The one bright spot in the universe of principles texts is Heyne, Boettke, and
Paychitko's "The Economic Way of Thinking." (which happens to be the text assigned
when I took micro principles and it is probably the reason I became an economist)
Thanks Pete, for helping keep that wonderful book going.
Anyway, I cannot even get my own department to listen to me. We teach a
departmentalized course where everyone (including M.S. holding instructors and
masters students who teach for us) uses the same text. I cannot even get anyone else
to read Heyne because the text doesn't have enough graphs. Of course, I am not sure
what type of job a non-Ph.D. could do with Heyne in a lecture class of 150.
Thanks for listening to me rant.
Comments?
-Jeffrey Rous
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/24/02 11:57PM >>>
Howdy,
Let me apologize in advance for this letter being too
long.
With all due respect, I think I may be disagreeing
with Mr. Foldarvy. First, I think his list may be too
ambitious for a high school class. Second, I really
think that your efforts should be toward making
economics interesting for those few who will be
excited enough to pursue it in college. In that
regard, I'd almost recommend following the book for
which this list is named: The Armchair Economist.
Also, Landsburg's book Fair Play may be good as well,
I have only read his online chapter on int'l trade and
I think it is very important. It is here:
www.netacc.net/~fairplay/chapter.htm
I think that The Armchair Economist gives such a good
overview of what economics IS as opposed to what it is
generally thought to be that it would make a fine
intro designed to pique the interest of the curious.
I lent my copy to my dad and he was AMAZED! at what
economics is really about.
That said, there are a few issues that I think should
be covered--issues that I didn't see until I was in a
Ph.D. program, and I think that it is a crime that
these issues aren't addressed earlier. First, I'd
really define what it is to be economically rational.
Do it intuitively: there are relationships between
things, let's say "taller than." Explain that. Then
transitivity (if that tree is taller than my house,
and my house is taller than that shrub, then that tree
is taller than that shrub), and completeness (every
thing is taller than, not as tall as, or as tall as
everything else). Myriad examples fit that scheme,
I'd spend a week covering examples, so that when you
inject ("as good as") preferences, transitivity and
completeness are already well grounded.
Second, I'd be sure to cover the first AND second
fundamental theorems of welfare economics--at least
intuitively. For example, the competitive market will
distribute, say medical care, (Pareto) efficiently,
but is it reasonable that a well-educated, affluent
person who knew better gets great AIDS treatments
while the working poor get very little medical care at
all? Surely that could generate some discussion.
Third, I'd make it clear that people choose. People
face the world and they choose. This concept, while
seemingly simple, is very subtle and significant in
regards to public policy. S
Re: high school economics
Howdy,
Let me apologize in advance for this letter being too
long.
With all due respect, I think I may be disagreeing
with Mr. Foldarvy. First, I think his list may be too
ambitious for a high school class. Second, I really
think that your efforts should be toward making
economics interesting for those few who will be
excited enough to pursue it in college. In that
regard, I'd almost recommend following the book for
which this list is named: The Armchair Economist.
Also, Landsburg's book Fair Play may be good as well,
I have only read his online chapter on int'l trade and
I think it is very important. It is here:
www.netacc.net/~fairplay/chapter.htm
I think that The Armchair Economist gives such a good
overview of what economics IS as opposed to what it is
generally thought to be that it would make a fine
intro designed to pique the interest of the curious.
I lent my copy to my dad and he was AMAZED! at what
economics is really about.
That said, there are a few issues that I think should
be covered--issues that I didn't see until I was in a
Ph.D. program, and I think that it is a crime that
these issues aren't addressed earlier. First, I'd
really define what it is to be economically rational.
Do it intuitively: there are relationships between
things, let's say "taller than." Explain that. Then
transitivity (if that tree is taller than my house,
and my house is taller than that shrub, then that tree
is taller than that shrub), and completeness (every
thing is taller than, not as tall as, or as tall as
everything else). Myriad examples fit that scheme,
I'd spend a week covering examples, so that when you
inject ("as good as") preferences, transitivity and
completeness are already well grounded.
Second, I'd be sure to cover the first AND second
fundamental theorems of welfare economics--at least
intuitively. For example, the competitive market will
distribute, say medical care, (Pareto) efficiently,
but is it reasonable that a well-educated, affluent
person who knew better gets great AIDS treatments
while the working poor get very little medical care at
all? Surely that could generate some discussion.
Third, I'd make it clear that people choose. People
face the world and they choose. This concept, while
seemingly simple, is very subtle and significant in
regards to public policy. Suppose, using an example
inappropriate for H.S. students, that I want to outlaw
adult pornography, because I feel that it exploits the
actors. Fair enough--except that they chose that
career becaues it was their best option available! If
acting in adult film is a crappy option, that implies
that what they turned down to be porn stars is even
crappier--and if we outlaw porn, those peope will be
forced to abandon a crappy option and into a crappier
one! I think the idea that restricting people's
available options is inherently detrimental to their
well being not really appreciated by society at large,
especially as the U.S. becomes more and more of a
nanny state. (Oops! I think I've just inject some
politics--sorry about that.)
Two final thing of utmost importance. Explain that
(and why) capitalism is not the root of all evil.
Also, explain why free trade is good for everybody;
furthermore, drive home the fact that blocking free
trade starves real people in poor nations. In the
words of a Bangledeshi representative at the
now-infamous Seattle WTO meeting, expressing his
confusion regarding the protestor's motives (saving
sea turtles), "We love sea turtles, too. But we love
our children more." In today's society, these last
two are vital.
Sorry about going on so long,
-jsh
=
"...for no one admits that he incurs an obligation to another merely because that
other has done him no wrong."
-Machiavelli, Discourses on Livy, Discourse 16.
__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Re: high school economics
> What would you recommend, a course that shows economics > concisely (and thus covering more topic) or showing it light (with just the > core economic concepts like supply, demand, cost, utility... etc; less > topic but more fun into it)? Similarly, what could be the topics that would > be taught in a year's course? I would cover the core concepts. Topics should include: 1. Basic conceps: utility, scarcity, economizing (optimizing), opportunity cost; factors of production: land, labor, capital goods; what is a "market" 2. Supply and demand; effects of price controls; elasticity 3. Production (cost, law of diminishing returns); accounting versus economic profit. Consumption (e.g. equality of MU/P). 4. Consumer and producer surplus; excess burden (deadweight loss); how the excess burden is affected by the elasticities of supply and demand 5. Theory of exchange; international trade (comparative advantage) 6. The capitalization of local externalities into site rents 7. Public choice 8. Time preference, interest rates (real and nominal), present value, asset prices as a function of yield, discount rate, and tax rate 9. Money and banking; central banking versus free banking; fixed versus floating currencies 10. National income accounting; aggregate supply and demand The macroeconomic determination of output and the price level (including the labor market determination of the real wage; the aggregate production function, and AS/AD) 11. The business cycle 12. Economic growth and development The main concept to be appreciated in economics is the implicit reality that lies beneath the superficial appearance of economic activity. Fred Foldvary = [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
high school economics
Hey Peeps. Got a question to the teachers in this group. High school economics is the first foray in to the field of economics for almost all students in the Philippines (and some other countries) and the last for some. What would you recommend, a course that shows economics concisely (and thus covering more topic) or showing it light (with just the core economic concepts like supply, demand, cost, utility... etc; less topic but more fun into it)? Similarly, what could be the topics that would be taught in a year's course? Thanks. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.295 / Virus Database: 159 - Release Date: 11/1/2001
