Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-09-07 Thread stanley garvey 
On Sep 5, 2012 14:38 "Stuart Winter"  wrote:

> > Yeah, I'd miss it too... I still use qemu with its snapshot feature
> > to
> > build packages on a "clean" installation.
> > My real ARM hardware has too many packages installed to consider it
> > a
> > clean installation.
> 
> I had a look and realised that to remove all the references to
> Versatile,
> and test the packages and installer would take more effort and time
> than
> to build the kernels and test it once or twice a year, so I'll leave
> them
> there.
> Thank you. QEMU is a very useful tool. Without QEMU I would not have
> been able to get SlackwareArm up and running on a Raspberry pi before
> a proper installer existed. What would have been an impossible task
> was made trivial with the QMEU support. Thank you for all your hard
> work supporting Slackware on Arm.
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-09-06 Thread Ottavio Caruso 
On 6 September 2012 17:20, John O'Donnell  wrote:
> On 09/06/2012 06:04 AM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>>
>> On 6 September 2012 09:25, Cédric VINCENT 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> For information, QEMU user-mode doesn't require any "guest" kernel
>>> since all privileged operations are redirected to the "host" one.
>>
>>
>> You assume that everybody uses Linux on PC as a host. If you use
>> Windows for example you need full system emulation.
>
>
> Is this a joke?

Why should it be a joke? I use qemu on Windows and I need the volatile
kernel to emulate slackware on arm.
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-09-06 Thread John O'Donnell 

On 09/06/2012 06:04 AM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:

On 6 September 2012 09:25, Cédric VINCENT  wrote:


For information, QEMU user-mode doesn't require any "guest" kernel
since all privileged operations are redirected to the "host" one.


You assume that everybody uses Linux on PC as a host. If you use
Windows for example you need full system emulation.


Is this a joke?


--
=== Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away.===
++==+
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|  (Sr. Systems Engineer,|http://juanisan.homeip.net|
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-09-06 Thread Davide 


>> For information, QEMU user-mode doesn't require any "guest" kernel
>> since all privileged operations are redirected to the "host" one.

>You assume that everybody uses Linux on PC as a host. If you use
>Windows for example you need full system emulation.

I just could not resist ... this is just a joke:

True Windows users get an allergic rash when they use Linux,
True Open Source sustainers get an allergic rash when they use non free 
software :-D 
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-09-06 Thread Ottavio Caruso 
On 6 September 2012 09:25, Cédric VINCENT  wrote:
>
> For information, QEMU user-mode doesn't require any "guest" kernel
> since all privileged operations are redirected to the "host" one.

You assume that everybody uses Linux on PC as a host. If you use
Windows for example you need full system emulation.
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-09-06 Thread Cédric VINCENT 
Hello,

For information, QEMU user-mode doesn't require any "guest" kernel
since all privileged operations are redirected to the "host" one.
Moreover the user-mode is a lot faster than the system-mode since
there's no device emulation at all [0].

Let me demonstrate how you can use your favorite distro with QEMU
user-mode and PRoot (its companion, http://proot.me) without any setup
or privilege.  In the following example I assume the Slackware/ARM
rootfs [1] was extracted in the "./rootfs/" directory:

proot -Q qemu-arm -r ./rootfs/

At this point, you are running a shell "confined" in the Slackware/ARM
rootfs and all ARM programs are "translated" by QEMU user-mode:

guest$ file /bin/echo
/bin/echo: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV),
dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped

guest$ /bin/echo "hello, world."
hello, world.

That way, you can do whatever you would do with a "real" Slackware/ARM
installation, for instance download and install new packages:

guest$ wget
ftp://ftp.slackware.org.uk/slackwarearm/slackwarearm-current/slackware/ap/slackpkg-2.82.0-arm-3.tgz
guest$ wget
ftp://ftp.slackware.org.uk/slackwarearm/slackwarearm-current/slackware/l/ncurses-5.9-arm-2.tgz
guest$ installpkg slackpkg-2.82.0-arm-3.tgz
guest$ installpkg ncurses-5.9-arm-2.tgz

For programs that require privileges, you can use the "-0" option to
fake the "root" id:

guest$ slackpkg update
Only root can install, upgrade, or remove packages.
Please log in as root or contact your system administrator.

host$ proot -Q qemu-arm -r ./rootfs/ -0

guest# slackpkg update
guest# slackpkg upgrade-all
guest# slackpkg install-new

Feel free to ask me for support,
Cédric.

[0] 
https://github.com/cedric-vincent/PRoot/blob/master/doc/articles/extending_qemu.txt
[1] 
ftp://ftp.slackware.org.uk/slackwarearm/slackwarearm-devtools/minirootfs/roots/slack-current-miniroot_27Aug12.tar.xz

PS: A couple of words about the use of PRoot and QEMU user-mode in the
industry: my team uses it to develop and optimize (GCC profile
base optimizations) embedded applications on x86_64 farms.
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-09-05 Thread Stuart Winter 

> Yeah, I'd miss it too... I still use qemu with its snapshot feature to
> build packages on a "clean" installation.
> My real ARM hardware has too many packages installed to consider it a
> clean installation.

I had a look and realised that to remove all the references to Versatile,
and test the packages and installer would take more effort and time than
to build the kernels and test it once or twice a year, so I'll leave them
there.
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-08-31 Thread Niels Horn 
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 11:37 AM, Robby Workman  wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 07:09:33 -0700 (PDT)
> Stuart Winter  wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I am thinking about removing the QEMU packages from -current.
>> I only added these years ago because my real ARM hardware died and I
>> needed a stop gap.
>>
>> The thing is that QEMU is *so slow* that I cannot imagine it being
>> useful at all, apart from a 10 minute novelty for x86 users.
>> It takes time to test whether the installation works, and takes time
>> to build the Versatile kernel.
>>
>> Is anybody going to miss it if I drop the packages and install docs?
>
>
> Well...  I would, since I often build packages in a qemu VM (I'm
> usually in no hurry, so time isn't a problem).  However, I can
> adjust :-)
>
> -RW

Yeah, I'd miss it too... I still use qemu with its snapshot feature to
build packages on a "clean" installation.
My real ARM hardware has too many packages installed to consider it a
clean installation.

--
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-08-31 Thread Stuart Winter 

> and you can add gobs of RAM SWAP support in qeum that isnt available to the
> real hardware.

The machine type I provide packages for is the VersatilePB which only
supports 256MB RAM, and you certainly would not want it paging.

-- 
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Slackware ARM: www.armedslack.org
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-08-31 Thread John O'Donnell 

On 08/31/2012 11:05 AM, Davide wrote:

I still find qemu useful when I want to test something out amd that qould be
emulating ARM from x86 hardware.
I know arm hardware is cheap nowadays ... but qemu is cheaper and no need to
wait for shipping ;)


and you can add gobs of RAM SWAP support in qeum that isnt available to the real 
hardware.


--
=== Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away.===
++==+
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|  (Sr. Systems Engineer,|http://juanisan.homeip.net|
|  Net Admin, Programmer, etc.)  |  E-Mail: unixjohn1...@gmail.com  |
++==+
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-08-31 Thread Ottavio Caruso 
On 31 August 2012 16:22, Stuart Winter  wrote:
>
>> I don't understand what you mean by qemu packages. Do you mean the
>> /slackwarearm/slackwarearm-devtools/qemu/ ?
>
> The 'versatile' kernel packages.

Then in this case, yes, I'd still like to play with them if possible.
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-08-31 Thread Stuart Winter 

> I don't understand what you mean by qemu packages. Do you mean the
> /slackwarearm/slackwarearm-devtools/qemu/ ?

The 'versatile' kernel packages.


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Slackware ARM: www.armedslack.org
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-08-31 Thread Ottavio Caruso 
On 31 August 2012 15:09, Stuart Winter  wrote:
>
> I am thinking about removing the QEMU packages from -current.
> I only added these years ago because my real ARM hardware died and I
> needed a stop gap.

I don't understand what you mean by qemu packages. Do you mean the
/slackwarearm/slackwarearm-devtools/qemu/ ?

I have actually never used those to install inside qemu. I only used
the mini-root and the volatile kernel.
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-08-31 Thread Davide 
I still find qemu useful when I want to test something out amd that qould be 
emulating ARM from x86 hardware.
I know arm hardware is cheap nowadays ... but qemu is cheaper and no need to 
wait for shipping ;)





 Da: Stuart Winter 
A: Slackware ARM mailing list  
Inviato: Venerdì 31 Agosto 2012 16:09
Oggetto: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?
 

Hi

I am thinking about removing the QEMU packages from -current.
I only added these years ago because my real ARM hardware died and I
needed a stop gap.

The thing is that QEMU is *so slow* that I cannot imagine it being useful
at all, apart from a 10 minute novelty for x86 users.
It takes time to test whether the installation works, and takes time to
build the Versatile kernel.

Is anybody going to miss it if I drop the packages and install docs?

-- 
Stuart Winter
www.slackware.com/~mozes
Slackware for ARM: www.armedslack.org
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-08-31 Thread Robby Workman 
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 07:09:33 -0700 (PDT)
Stuart Winter  wrote:

> 
> Hi
> 
> I am thinking about removing the QEMU packages from -current.
> I only added these years ago because my real ARM hardware died and I
> needed a stop gap.
> 
> The thing is that QEMU is *so slow* that I cannot imagine it being
> useful at all, apart from a 10 minute novelty for x86 users.
> It takes time to test whether the installation works, and takes time
> to build the Versatile kernel.
> 
> Is anybody going to miss it if I drop the packages and install docs?


Well...  I would, since I often build packages in a qemu VM (I'm 
usually in no hurry, so time isn't a problem).  However, I can 
adjust :-)

-RW
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Re: [ARMedslack] QEMU support - does anybody care about it?

2012-08-31 Thread Thorsten Mühlfelder 
I've never used QEMU and I think nowadays ARM hardware is really cheap
to get. So even for a first try beginners may rather buy an ARM board
than using QEMU.


2012/8/31 Stuart Winter :
>
> Hi
>
> I am thinking about removing the QEMU packages from -current.
> I only added these years ago because my real ARM hardware died and I
> needed a stop gap.
>
> The thing is that QEMU is *so slow* that I cannot imagine it being useful
> at all, apart from a 10 minute novelty for x86 users.
> It takes time to test whether the installation works, and takes time to
> build the Versatile kernel.
>
> Is anybody going to miss it if I drop the packages and install docs?
>
> --
> Stuart Winter
> www.slackware.com/~mozes
> Slackware for ARM: www.armedslack.org
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