RE: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
I'm here in Denver Colorado and have a pretty good cable tester that can tell you what speed the cable will do. Contact me off the list and I'll do what I can to help. Tim. Tthompson at sustain.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Breeden Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 1:53 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System Cat3 - which used to be called D Inside Wire (DIW) *is* the wire spec'd in the 10baseT IEEE standard. The existing wire plant is currently to the 10baseT standard., at least as far as the wire goes. (It was originally invisioned that 10bt and analog/digital voice would be running in the same 4 pair cable) Also, the 10bt standard states that 100 meter runs are typical using DIW. There really is no distance standard with 10baseT, only that it typically will run 100m using DIW. PGE, back in the late 80's had a working 10bt run at The Geysers in California of over 500 feet using DIW (ATT Starlan hubs w/ receive threashold set below the standard, BER was still within spec). That being the case, will DIW support 100baseT? The answer is sometimes it will, sometimes it won't. I've seen 200 foot runs of DIW running 100baseT and BER is within spec. The bottom line is you might think of *testing* if baseband ethernet (10, 1000, whatever) will run using the existing wireplant before attempting some dsl/dsl like technology. It would be the least expensive route BTW: Tut make a great product. You might also look at Patton's Ethernet Extenders, another dsl like product that's cheap -JB Hawaii Joe Greco wrote: So how can I do this? Can I use RS485 adapters to get ethernet to each office via the two pair? What kind of data rate can I get with RS485, and would it be half- or full-duplex? Would wireless work in a steel building? Is there some other technology that can be used? What's all this about RS485? 10/100 Ethernet is two pair (unless you get something stupid like 100VG). You probably can't get the 100 on any reasonable run of Cat3, but by all means, run 10. We've done it in the past over fairly long distances, thanks to full duplex you need not worry about the collision domain issues. Wireless might be an option but it's also a security nightmare. ... JG ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
First, I will admit that I have not worked with PoE before so I'm asking this for my own benifit as well as the OP's benifit. Doesn't PoE require at lest 3 pairs to be availible? I know that pins 1, 2, 3, and 6 get used for ethernet communications and doesn't the power get transmitted over pins 4 and 5? Tim Donahue On Mon, 2004-11-08 at 00:00, Edward Beheler wrote: According to the spec sheet, they will do passthru PoE on the first jack. Ed Beheler On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 21:00:25 -0700, Michael Welter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe Greco wrote: We have a 100 year old building here in Colorado that needs a new Your best bet may be something like this: http://www.3com.com/products/en_US/detail.jsp?tab=featurespathtype=purchasesku=WEBBNCNJ220SYS I can't find a schematic for the IntelliJack--can I have Ethernet and PoE over two pair? -- Michael Welter Introspect Telephony Corp. Denver, Colorado US +1.303.674.2575 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.introspect.com ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
Tim Donahue wrote: First, I will admit that I have not worked with PoE before so I'm asking this for my own benifit as well as the OP's benifit. Doesn't PoE require at lest 3 pairs to be availible? I know that pins 1, 2, 3, and 6 get used for ethernet communications and doesn't the power get transmitted over pins 4 and 5? A PoE-enabled connection needs all four pairs. Two pairs for Tx/Rx, one pair for power, one pair for ground. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
My standard answer to POE questionsMostly stolen from or repeated in a Network Computing issue about 2 months ago. PoE factoids: PoE uses the spare pairs *or* the data pairs (which one to use is automatically detected) in an ethernet (10 or 10/100) cable to carry -48V dc from the power sourcing equipment (PSE) in an endpoint switch (or midspan hub) to the powered device (PD) appliance at the other end of the cable. Clearly, use of the spare pairs requires that they be connected all the way from PSE to PD, which may not be the case in some legacy installations. The PoE power limit is 13W per PSE port. A new standard is being discussed which will raise this to about 25W. But don't expect it for a few years and it's primary use is security cameras requiring pan/tilt/zoom. Newer ethernet switches include the PSE function internally, but Midspan Hubs can also be used to insert PoE power in legacy installations. Legacy PDs can also be powered by PoE 'splitters' or 'taps', which pull the power from the ethernet and deliver it to the PD via a short cable. PoE appliances include: Phones Cameras RF ID readers Displays Wireless Access Points Musical instruments The PoE standard is IEEE 802.3af. It was approved about a year ago. There are previous, proprietary PoE schemes from a number of vendors. PoE's -48 V dc is designated as Safety Extra-Low Voltage (SELV). SELV (safety extra low voltage) is a secondary circuit which is designed and protected so that under normal and single-fault conditions, the voltage between any two accessible parts does not exceed a safe value (42.2 V peak or 60 V DC). It is lower than standard telephone network voltage (TNV). -Original Message- From: Kevin P. Fleming [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 2:14 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System Tim Donahue wrote: First, I will admit that I have not worked with PoE before so I'm asking this for my own benefit as well as the OP's benefit. Doesn't PoE require at lest 3 pairs to be availible? I know that pins 1, 2, 3, and 6 get used for ethernet communications and doesn't the power get transmitted over pins 4 and 5? A PoE-enabled connection needs all four pairs. Two pairs for Tx/Rx, one pair for power, one pair for ground. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
It actually uses 2 wires for positive and 2 wires for ground/negative? So it's combing 2 wires (instead of 1) to deliver more power? Which 2 are positive and which 2 are negative/ground? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin P. Fleming Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 2:14 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System Tim Donahue wrote: First, I will admit that I have not worked with PoE before so I'm asking this for my own benifit as well as the OP's benifit. Doesn't PoE require at lest 3 pairs to be availible? I know that pins 1, 2, 3, and 6 get used for ethernet communications and doesn't the power get transmitted over pins 4 and 5? A PoE-enabled connection needs all four pairs. Two pairs for Tx/Rx, one pair for power, one pair for ground. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
Cat3 - which used to be called D Inside Wire (DIW) *is* the wire spec'd in the 10baseT IEEE standard. The existing wire plant is currently to the 10baseT standard., at least as far as the wire goes. (It was originally invisioned that 10bt and analog/digital voice would be running in the same 4 pair cable) Also, the 10bt standard states that 100 meter runs are typical using DIW. There really is no distance standard with 10baseT, only that it typically will run 100m using DIW. PGE, back in the late 80's had a working 10bt run at The Geysers in California of over 500 feet using DIW (ATT Starlan hubs w/ receive threashold set below the standard, BER was still within spec). That being the case, will DIW support 100baseT? The answer is sometimes it will, sometimes it won't. I've seen 200 foot runs of DIW running 100baseT and BER is within spec. The bottom line is you might think of *testing* if baseband ethernet (10, 1000, whatever) will run using the existing wireplant before attempting some dsl/dsl like technology. It would be the least expensive route BTW: Tut make a great product. You might also look at Patton's Ethernet Extenders, another dsl like product that's cheap -JB Hawaii Joe Greco wrote: So how can I do this? Can I use RS485 adapters to get ethernet to each office via the two pair? What kind of data rate can I get with RS485, and would it be half- or full-duplex? Would wireless work in a steel building? Is there some other technology that can be used? What's all this about RS485? 10/100 Ethernet is two pair (unless you get something stupid like 100VG). You probably can't get the 100 on any reasonable run of Cat3, but by all means, run 10. We've done it in the past over fairly long distances, thanks to full duplex you need not worry about the collision domain issues. Wireless might be an option but it's also a security nightmare. ... JG ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
Paul Rodan wrote: It actually uses 2 wires for positive and 2 wires for ground/negative? So it's combing 2 wires (instead of 1) to deliver more power? I believe so, although apparently there is a configuration where the power is present on the data wires instead... I've never seen that though. Which 2 are positive and which 2 are negative/ground? I do not know for sure... I'm looking at a page that says 4/5 are positive, and 7/8 are negative. It must be correct, because it's a page on how to build your own injectors/splitters :-) http://www.nycwireless.net/poe/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
802.3AF calls for power to be on the data wires http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/download/802.3af-2003.pdf Table 33C.1 and 33C.2 on page 90 clearly states that in mode A Terminal A is on pin 3 Terminal B is on pin 6 Terminal C is on pin 1 Terminal D is on pin 2 There is a mode B which uses 4,5,7,8 Endpoint based POE may support either A or B, while midspan can only support option B (Page 29). Harry On Mon, 2004-11-08 at 13:53 -0700, Kevin P. Fleming wrote: Paul Rodan wrote: It actually uses 2 wires for positive and 2 wires for ground/negative? So it's combing 2 wires (instead of 1) to deliver more power? I believe so, although apparently there is a configuration where the power is present on the data wires instead... I've never seen that though. Which 2 are positive and which 2 are negative/ground? I do not know for sure... I'm looking at a page that says 4/5 are positive, and 7/8 are negative. It must be correct, because it's a page on how to build your own injectors/splitters :-) http://www.nycwireless.net/poe/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Harry McGregor, Computing Manager Tucson Support Group - U.S. Geological Survey University of Arizona - Environment and Natural Resource Building 520-670-5574 (office) - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 520-661-7875 (Cell) - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The opinions/statements expressed herein are my own and should not be taken as a position, opinion, or endorsement of the University of Arizona or the U.S. Geological Survey. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
Joe Greco wrote: Michael Welter wrote: We have a 100 year old building here in Colorado that needs a new telephone system. The building (five floors) is steel frame with lath and plaster walls. There is no crawl space above the ceilings or under the floors. The building is historic, and nothing can be done to the exterior. The current system uses existing Cat3 (two pair) to get to the digital telephone set in each office. Some offices have an additional pair which is used for fax (and DSL). I belive this fax line is a POTS line from the telco. The owners would like to replace the existing telephone system, but they are adamant that the exsiting wiring be reused. They would like to provide a LAN connection to each office for both data and voice. (They would also like to install cable TV in each office, but cable install costs would be $80,000+.) The owners are concerned about frequent power failures and keeping the telephones operational. Whatever equipemnt and telephone sets we put in the offices will have to be powered from a central UPS (PoE). So how can I do this? Can I use RS485 adapters to get ethernet to each office via the two pair? What kind of data rate can I get with RS485, and would it be half- or full-duplex? Would wireless work in a steel building? Is there some other technology that can be used? Ideas, anyone? It is real easy. EoV (ethernet over vdsl). I have done this and it works great. For every 24 ports I used a 1u EoV, 1u splitter, 1u fxs gateway. The little termination modems have ethernet and fxs. Just add an * box, done. I was under the impression that none of that stuff ran at 10Mbps or faster speeds. If he's got two pair and Cat3, he can just run 10Mbps Ethernet (and full duplex at that, if it's done right). Or has the short-range DSL stuff (which I know at least one local telco uses for in-house network extension purposes) finally beaten that speed? ... JG 15Mbps symmetrical -- Bob Knight [-w] the work option [EMAIL PROTECTED] 925-449-9163 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
Joe Greco wrote: Michael Welter wrote: We have a 100 year old building here in Colorado that needs a new telephone system. The building (five floors) is steel frame with lath and plaster walls. There is no crawl space above the ceilings or under the floors. The building is historic, and nothing can be done to the exterior. The current system uses existing Cat3 (two pair) to get to the digital telephone set in each office. Some offices have an additional pair which is used for fax (and DSL). I belive this fax line is a POTS line from the telco. The owners would like to replace the existing telephone system, but they are adamant that the exsiting wiring be reused. They would like to provide a LAN connection to each office for both data and voice. (They would also like to install cable TV in each office, but cable install costs would be $80,000+.) The owners are concerned about frequent power failures and keeping the telephones operational. Whatever equipemnt and telephone sets we put in the offices will have to be powered from a central UPS (PoE). So how can I do this? Can I use RS485 adapters to get ethernet to each office via the two pair? What kind of data rate can I get with RS485, and would it be half- or full-duplex? Would wireless work in a steel building? Is there some other technology that can be used? Ideas, anyone? It is real easy. EoV (ethernet over vdsl). I have done this and it works great. For every 24 ports I used a 1u EoV, 1u splitter, 1u fxs gateway. The little termination modems have ethernet and fxs. Just add an * box, done. I was under the impression that none of that stuff ran at 10Mbps or faster speeds. If he's got two pair and Cat3, he can just run 10Mbps Ethernet (and full duplex at that, if it's done right). Or has the short-range DSL stuff (which I know at least one local telco uses for in-house network extension purposes) finally beaten that speed? ... JG 15Mbps symmetrical Not bad... that'd let you get 30Mbps out of the same copper for only a one-time hardware cost (two circuits @ 15Mbps each). ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
Joe Greco wrote: We have a 100 year old building here in Colorado that needs a new Your best bet may be something like this: http://www.3com.com/products/en_US/detail.jsp?tab=featurespathtype=purchasesku=WEBBNCNJ220SYS I can't find a schematic for the IntelliJack--can I have Ethernet and PoE over two pair? -- Michael Welter Introspect Telephony Corp. Denver, Colorado US +1.303.674.2575 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.introspect.com ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
Joe Greco wrote: We have a 100 year old building here in Colorado that needs a new Your best bet may be something like this: http://www.3com.com/products/en_US/detail.jsp?tab=featurespathtype=purchasesku=WEBBNCNJ220SYS I can't find a schematic for the IntelliJack--can I have Ethernet and PoE over two pair? Hmm, didn't think about the PoE. That's probably difficult to fix with any technology, if you really need power centralized. A question you really ought to be asking yourself is whether or not there *really* is any way to rewire for Cat5/6. Any older building that has Cat3 in it suggests that it was an after-build job (heheh). In a small percentage of such cases, it may have been done as part of extensive remodelling work, where walls were torn apart, etc., in which case you may be unable to use the old runs to pull new. However, in most other cases, the wires were simply run as convenient, and such convenience tends not to change much over time. Having worked in older buildings in the past, when the answer is can't, the question should become why not. There may well be a Really Good Reason, but there may also be a really silly reason. I've done sites where we've placed heavy UPS systems and rows of racks on floors that were originally spec'd for a fraction of the weight. The initial answer was can't do it. The final answer was well, yes, you actually can cut through to structural steel, weld a 4 modern steel cap bar to the existing old steel I-beam, and triple the strength of the beam so that you can lay load distributing steel on top of the floor. Took a few engineering hours and some pesky permits, but in the end nobody had a good reason that the impossible /couldn't/ be done. I'd investigate - very carefully - the actual reasons you can't rewire, and the feasibility of possibly doing so. It may actually be the most intelligent thing to do. Otherwise, you might be stuck handing out small UPS's all over the place. That's not a terrible fix, BTW, though it is far from ideal. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
According to the spec sheet, they will do passthru PoE on the first jack. Ed Beheler On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 21:00:25 -0700, Michael Welter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joe Greco wrote: We have a 100 year old building here in Colorado that needs a new Your best bet may be something like this: http://www.3com.com/products/en_US/detail.jsp?tab=featurespathtype=purchasesku=WEBBNCNJ220SYS I can't find a schematic for the IntelliJack--can I have Ethernet and PoE over two pair? -- Michael Welter Introspect Telephony Corp. Denver, Colorado US +1.303.674.2575 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.introspect.com ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
Henry Devito wrote: I know I am top posting and that is a no no, but I would like to comment on this generally. I just did this with a historic building with the same situation cat3 two pair in each office. I used a Tut systems solution called expresso this gave us cable TV and Ethernet to each office over the existing cat 3. Amazing technology I think. I'm not affiliated with them at all. I think their website is http://www.tutsystems.com -Original Message- [snip] You do have other options, such as products like Tut's (http://www.tutsys.com/mtu/products/expressomdu/index.cfm), It's funny that if you hadn't of top posted, you might have seen my link to Tut's Expresso product... Nick ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
It's funny that if you hadn't of top posted, you might have seen my link to Tut's Expresso product... Nick LOL, I didn't even see the link you sent, I actually read the original post, but didn't read down far enough in your post before I replied to your post. Ironic isn't it. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
Michael Welter wrote: We have a 100 year old building here in Colorado that needs a new telephone system. The building (five floors) is steel frame with lath and plaster walls. There is no crawl space above the ceilings or under the floors. The building is historic, and nothing can be done to the exterior. The current system uses existing Cat3 (two pair) to get to the digital telephone set in each office. Some offices have an additional pair which is used for fax (and DSL). I belive this fax line is a POTS line from the telco. The owners would like to replace the existing telephone system, but they are adamant that the exsiting wiring be reused. They would like to provide a LAN connection to each office for both data and voice. (They would also like to install cable TV in each office, but cable install costs would be $80,000+.) The owners are concerned about frequent power failures and keeping the telephones operational. Whatever equipemnt and telephone sets we put in the offices will have to be powered from a central UPS (PoE). So how can I do this? Can I use RS485 adapters to get ethernet to each office via the two pair? What kind of data rate can I get with RS485, and would it be half- or full-duplex? Would wireless work in a steel building? Is there some other technology that can be used? Ideas, anyone? It is real easy. EoV (ethernet over vdsl). I have done this and it works great. For every 24 ports I used a 1u EoV, 1u splitter, 1u fxs gateway. The little termination modems have ethernet and fxs. Just add an * box, done. -- Bob Knight [-w] the work option [EMAIL PROTECTED] 925-449-9163 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
Michael Welter wrote: We have a 100 year old building here in Colorado that needs a new telephone system. The building (five floors) is steel frame with lath and plaster walls. There is no crawl space above the ceilings or under the floors. The building is historic, and nothing can be done to the exterior. The current system uses existing Cat3 (two pair) to get to the digital telephone set in each office. Some offices have an additional pair which is used for fax (and DSL). I belive this fax line is a POTS line from the telco. The owners would like to replace the existing telephone system, but they are adamant that the exsiting wiring be reused. They would like to provide a LAN connection to each office for both data and voice. (They would also like to install cable TV in each office, but cable install costs would be $80,000+.) The owners are concerned about frequent power failures and keeping the telephones operational. Whatever equipemnt and telephone sets we put in the offices will have to be powered from a central UPS (PoE). So how can I do this? Can I use RS485 adapters to get ethernet to each office via the two pair? What kind of data rate can I get with RS485, and would it be half- or full-duplex? Would wireless work in a steel building? Is there some other technology that can be used? Ideas, anyone? It is real easy. EoV (ethernet over vdsl). I have done this and it works great. For every 24 ports I used a 1u EoV, 1u splitter, 1u fxs gateway. The little termination modems have ethernet and fxs. Just add an * box, done. I was under the impression that none of that stuff ran at 10Mbps or faster speeds. If he's got two pair and Cat3, he can just run 10Mbps Ethernet (and full duplex at that, if it's done right). Or has the short-range DSL stuff (which I know at least one local telco uses for in-house network extension purposes) finally beaten that speed? ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:51:44 -0600 (CST), Joe Greco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is real easy. EoV (ethernet over vdsl). I was under the impression that none of that stuff ran at 10Mbps or faster speeds. If he's got two pair and Cat3, he can just run 10Mbps Ethernet (and full duplex at that, if it's done right). Or has the short-range DSL stuff (which I know at least one local telco uses for in-house network extension purposes) finally beaten that speed? VDSL is used here in Japan to deliver 26Mbps and I have heard a new service delivers just over 50Mbps also using VDSL. So, the technology would seem to be up to the job, but I have no idea how reliable this is. rgds benjk -- Sunrise Telephone Systems, 9F Shibuya Daikyo Bldg., 1-13-5 Shibuya, Tokyo, Japan. NB: Spam filters in place. Messages unrelated to the * mailing lists may get trashed. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
We have a 100 year old building here in Colorado that needs a new telephone system. The building (five floors) is steel frame with lath and plaster walls. There is no crawl space above the ceilings or under the floors. The building is historic, and nothing can be done to the exterior. The current system uses existing Cat3 (two pair) to get to the digital telephone set in each office. Some offices have an additional pair which is used for fax (and DSL). I belive this fax line is a POTS line from the telco. The owners would like to replace the existing telephone system, but they are adamant that the exsiting wiring be reused. They would like to provide a LAN connection to each office for both data and voice. (They would also like to install cable TV in each office, but cable install costs would be $80,000+.) The owners are concerned about frequent power failures and keeping the telephones operational. Whatever equipemnt and telephone sets we put in the offices will have to be powered from a central UPS (PoE). So how can I do this? Can I use RS485 adapters to get ethernet to each office via the two pair? What kind of data rate can I get with RS485, and would it be half- or full-duplex? Would wireless work in a steel building? Is there some other technology that can be used? Ideas, anyone? Thanks, Mike -- Michael Welter Introspect Telephony Corp. Denver, Colorado US +1.303.674.2575 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.introspect.com ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
We have a 100 year old building here in Colorado that needs a new telephone system. The building (five floors) is steel frame with lath and plaster walls. There is no crawl space above the ceilings or under the floors. The building is historic, and nothing can be done to the exterior. That is, to say, they're not willing to go to the extensive amount of trouble to do so. The current system uses existing Cat3 (two pair) to get to the digital telephone set in each office. Some offices have an additional pair which is used for fax (and DSL). I belive this fax line is a POTS line from the telco. The owners would like to replace the existing telephone system, but they are adamant that the exsiting wiring be reused. They would like to provide a LAN connection to each office for both data and voice. (They would also like to install cable TV in each office, but cable install costs would be $80,000+.) The owners are concerned about frequent power failures and keeping the telephones operational. Whatever equipemnt and telephone sets we put in the offices will have to be powered from a central UPS (PoE). Your best bet may be something like this: http://www.3com.com/products/en_US/detail.jsp?tab=featurespathtype=purchasesku=WEBBNCNJ220SYS I'm guessing that the uplink can be set to 10/full. You ought to be able to dump a bunch of these into a PoE switch with ports locked at 10/full. You might even find that you can run some runs at 100/full, but don't bet anything on it. The 10/full is possible because there's no chance of collisions on a switch-to-switch Ethernet, and essentially gives you up-to-2x-10Mbps-hub performance. This is a neat way to handle some of these sorts of problems. So how can I do this? Can I use RS485 adapters to get ethernet to each office via the two pair? What kind of data rate can I get with RS485, and would it be half- or full-duplex? Would wireless work in a steel building? Is there some other technology that can be used? What's all this about RS485? 10/100 Ethernet is two pair (unless you get something stupid like 100VG). You probably can't get the 100 on any reasonable run of Cat3, but by all means, run 10. We've done it in the past over fairly long distances, thanks to full duplex you need not worry about the collision domain issues. Wireless might be an option but it's also a security nightmare. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
Michael Welter wrote: We have a 100 year old building here in Colorado that needs a new telephone system. The building (five floors) is steel frame with lath and plaster walls. There is no crawl space above the ceilings or under the floors. The building is historic, and nothing can be done to the exterior. The current system uses existing Cat3 (two pair) to get to the digital telephone set in each office. Some offices have an additional pair which is used for fax (and DSL). I belive this fax line is a POTS line from the telco. The owners would like to replace the existing telephone system, but they are adamant that the exsiting wiring be reused. How about ADSI phones? You can use the Cat 3 and still have fancy phones. They would like to provide a LAN connection to each office for both data and voice. (They would also like to install cable TV in each office, but cable install costs would be $80,000+.) The owners are concerned about frequent power failures and keeping the telephones operational. Whatever equipemnt and telephone sets we put in the offices will have to be powered from a central UPS (PoE). Most ADSI phones will still allow basic telephone use (you can make calls but no display or lights) when the power goes out. So how can I do this? Can I use RS485 adapters to get ethernet to each office via the two pair? What kind of data rate can I get with RS485, and would it be half- or full-duplex? This would be possible, but is the least desirable of any possible option, since you can't really hope for more than 10Mbps H-D, since you're dealing with fewer twists and, likely, inferior cable construction. You may have better luck on longer runs, but remember, adequately cabled Cat-5 isn't designed to go over 100m. Based on the old buildings that I've cabled, you rarely get a straight shot. Would wireless work in a steel building? Is there some other technology that can be used? Wireless would be a good choice, especially if the building has a steel skin. Without ever seeing the building, my recommendation would be to put a good 3Com or similar (NOT LINKSYS) AP staggered through every floor (i.e. not directly above the lower floor's... shift for greater coverage area) connected to your wiring closet with fiber. Since you'll only have 5 runs, this shouldn't cost too much. Allied Telesyn* media converters will set you back =~$150/end, or you could (preferably) get fiber cards for a switch which cost about the same. If you still wanted to do a cable based networking, you could just run the fiber to a small switch on each floor and figure out how to discretely feed cable to each office, but I can almost guarantee the solution will come down to conduit, which is hard to make look good. At least with wireless, you only have one cable per floor to add and you can figure out how to put your AP in a discrete place. You do have other options, such as products like Tut's (http://www.tutsys.com/mtu/products/expressomdu/index.cfm), but I think you'll find them expensive and limited. If you want more details on how I've done stuff like this, feel free to email me off-list. I also do consulting work, if you're interested... Nick *I recommend this particular brand because I've used their converters in lots of applications (including 10+ mile building-to-building runs) without ever seeing one die. And they're pretty cheap. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System
I know I am top posting and that is a no no, but I would like to comment on this generally. I just did this with a historic building with the same situation cat3 two pair in each office. I used a Tut systems solution called expresso this gave us cable TV and Ethernet to each office over the existing cat 3. Amazing technology I think. I'm not affiliated with them at all. I think their website is http://www.tutsystems.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Bachmann Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 11:01 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] [OT] Old Building Needs a New Telephone System Michael Welter wrote: We have a 100 year old building here in Colorado that needs a new telephone system. The building (five floors) is steel frame with lath and plaster walls. There is no crawl space above the ceilings or under the floors. The building is historic, and nothing can be done to the exterior. The current system uses existing Cat3 (two pair) to get to the digital telephone set in each office. Some offices have an additional pair which is used for fax (and DSL). I belive this fax line is a POTS line from the telco. The owners would like to replace the existing telephone system, but they are adamant that the exsiting wiring be reused. How about ADSI phones? You can use the Cat 3 and still have fancy phones. They would like to provide a LAN connection to each office for both data and voice. (They would also like to install cable TV in each office, but cable install costs would be $80,000+.) The owners are concerned about frequent power failures and keeping the telephones operational. Whatever equipemnt and telephone sets we put in the offices will have to be powered from a central UPS (PoE). Most ADSI phones will still allow basic telephone use (you can make calls but no display or lights) when the power goes out. So how can I do this? Can I use RS485 adapters to get ethernet to each office via the two pair? What kind of data rate can I get with RS485, and would it be half- or full-duplex? This would be possible, but is the least desirable of any possible option, since you can't really hope for more than 10Mbps H-D, since you're dealing with fewer twists and, likely, inferior cable construction. You may have better luck on longer runs, but remember, adequately cabled Cat-5 isn't designed to go over 100m. Based on the old buildings that I've cabled, you rarely get a straight shot. Would wireless work in a steel building? Is there some other technology that can be used? Wireless would be a good choice, especially if the building has a steel skin. Without ever seeing the building, my recommendation would be to put a good 3Com or similar (NOT LINKSYS) AP staggered through every floor (i.e. not directly above the lower floor's... shift for greater coverage area) connected to your wiring closet with fiber. Since you'll only have 5 runs, this shouldn't cost too much. Allied Telesyn* media converters will set you back =~$150/end, or you could (preferably) get fiber cards for a switch which cost about the same. If you still wanted to do a cable based networking, you could just run the fiber to a small switch on each floor and figure out how to discretely feed cable to each office, but I can almost guarantee the solution will come down to conduit, which is hard to make look good. At least with wireless, you only have one cable per floor to add and you can figure out how to put your AP in a discrete place. You do have other options, such as products like Tut's (http://www.tutsys.com/mtu/products/expressomdu/index.cfm), but I think you'll find them expensive and limited. If you want more details on how I've done stuff like this, feel free to email me off-list. I also do consulting work, if you're interested... Nick *I recommend this particular brand because I've used their converters in lots of applications (including 10+ mile building-to-building runs) without ever seeing one die. And they're pretty cheap. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
