Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-08 Thread Iain Stevenson
This isn't really the issue.  Up until a week ago or so everything worked 
fine with a hallf duplex hub.  Now it doesn't - so I suspect some code 
change made in * is responsible.   I think * must maintain backwards 
compatibility with existing hardware or many people will get fed up with 
constant degradation of sound quality.

 Iain

--On Friday, May 07, 2004 14:15:47 -0600 James Sizemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

I checked-out CVS Head today to get realm support,  I have over hundred
Cisco phone on my servers and I have not noticed any Qos problems.  You
may want to check the duplex of your switches and Asterisk boxes. If you
don't have full duplex, that is more then likely your problem.
Brian Cuthie wrote:

It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS my Cisco
7960 works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I
mention this in case it's news.  Anyone else having trouble?  What I'm
seeing (er, hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version I
had installed had fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when I
make the same calls through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).
Cheers,

Brian
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-08 Thread Vic Cross
On Fri, 7 May 2004, Brian Cuthie wrote:

 It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS my Cisco 7960 
 works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I mention this 
 in case it's news.  Anyone else having trouble?  What I'm seeing (er, 
 hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version I had installed 
 had fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when I make the same 
 calls through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).

I had jittery audio with dropouts on a 7960 with SCCP, and started testing
SIP hoping it would be better (based on the reports of the SIP-to-IAX2
timestamping issue).  Here's my experience:

* As Brian mentions, when the other end of the call is from a non-VoIP
path (e.g. Zaptel interface) the audio is fine.

* Calls over IAX start out okay, but within a few seconds the audio starts
jittering.  It gets progressively worse until about a minute into the call
(often less), by which time audio is unintelligible.  Calling the same
number over the same IAX connection from an analogue phone attached to a
SIP-image ATA-186 which in turn is plugged into the PC port of the same
7960 gives perfect audio.

* Calls over SIP are stable; I had an intermittent problem where audio
into the 7960 would stop completely for up to three seconds, but that
seems to be gone after doing a CVS update.  Side note: when I had this
audio dropout problem, making the same call without * in the audio path
(by using canreinvite=yes and removing t and T from Dial) resulted in
perfect audio.

I'll try someone's suggestion to disable the jitterbuffer to fix the IAX2 
problem, but I thought that the jitterbuffer was supposed to help this 
kind of problem...  Besides, the same call over an ATA or using X-lite is 
perfect.

Before anyone jumps in, yes, as soon as I can get there I will hit the bug 
tracker.

Cheers,
Vic Cross


PS: I know that folks generally dislike 'me too' messages, but this time
Too Bad -- I'm trying to provide more info to help anyone that might be
working on problems.

rant
I hope that Iain was exaggerating when he described his bug-reporting
experience.  Many * users are unable to commit the time to poring over
hundreds of lines of uncommented C code and ethereal traces with thousands
of packets captured.  So, as our way of trying to help, we provide e-mails
like this either in response to or as an attempt to gather more
information about the problem.  To try and get people talking about a 
problem.

How is does it help to jump on someone who is trying to get resolution to 
a problem -- by driving them toward OpenPBX or VOCAL?  A few former 
colleagues of mine may soon be about to learn (unfortunately) that you can 
only piss off a customer so many times.

To the Asterisk developers, bug marshals, and coders: I am jealous of you!  
You've created a wonderful thing.  I'd love to be able to spend the amount
of time I'd like to on Asterisk.  I'd love to be able to do more to fix
bugs and develop features.  But I can't.  Don't think less of me because
of that. 
/rant

VC
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-08 Thread Rich Adamson
Vic,

The problem you're having has been discussed multiple times on this list,
and can be easily seen using ethereal to inspect the timestamps contained
within the rtp packets sent to the 7960 phone. There are several issues
involved, including:
 1. the cisco phones drop any rtp packet that is not exactly 160 milliseconds
between successive packets (thus causing choppy audio). That drop
function seems to be the result of cisco changing DSPs in their v6.x
code. I've not heard of anyone running v5.x sip code with the problem.
 2. iax2 had a bug in it that Mark fixed last month. The bug resulted in
iax2/gsm timestamps that were erratic when they should have been
exactly 20 milliseconds between successive packets.
 3. Code was added to rtp.c about a month or so ago that ties the
iax2/gsm timestamps directly to the sip/rtp timestamps. When that code
was added, it made the iax2 erratic timestamps and Cisco's dropping
of packets extemely obvious to iax2 users. Other non-iax2 users are not
impacted by this.

Cisco phones seem to be the only ones impacted by this. There are three
short term fixes available to you:
 a. upgrade (or insist your service provider) upgrade their iax2 code. (I
don't believe the Stable branch has the fix in it as yet.) NuFone
and some others have done that a few weeks ago.
 b. remove the two or three lines that were added in rtp.c (although
Mark is discouraging this approach for other reasons), or, go back
to source code cvs from about early March.
 c. Change the 7960's from v6.x code to v5.x code (and open a trouble
ticket with Cisco). I've not heard anyone suggest that dropping rtp
packets with uneven timestamps is necessary, a standard, or anything
else. Therefore believe it's an anomaly that crept in with the DSP
change in the sip v6.x code from Cisco.

Rich



 On Fri, 7 May 2004, Brian Cuthie wrote:
 
  It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS my Cisco 7960 
  works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I mention this 
  in case it's news.  Anyone else having trouble?  What I'm seeing (er, 
  hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version I had installed 
  had fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when I make the same 
  calls through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).
 
 I had jittery audio with dropouts on a 7960 with SCCP, and started testing
 SIP hoping it would be better (based on the reports of the SIP-to-IAX2
 timestamping issue).  Here's my experience:
 
 * As Brian mentions, when the other end of the call is from a non-VoIP
 path (e.g. Zaptel interface) the audio is fine.
 
 * Calls over IAX start out okay, but within a few seconds the audio starts
 jittering.  It gets progressively worse until about a minute into the call
 (often less), by which time audio is unintelligible.  Calling the same
 number over the same IAX connection from an analogue phone attached to a
 SIP-image ATA-186 which in turn is plugged into the PC port of the same
 7960 gives perfect audio.
 
 * Calls over SIP are stable; I had an intermittent problem where audio
 into the 7960 would stop completely for up to three seconds, but that
 seems to be gone after doing a CVS update.  Side note: when I had this
 audio dropout problem, making the same call without * in the audio path
 (by using canreinvite=yes and removing t and T from Dial) resulted in
 perfect audio.
 
 I'll try someone's suggestion to disable the jitterbuffer to fix the IAX2 
 problem, but I thought that the jitterbuffer was supposed to help this 
 kind of problem...  Besides, the same call over an ATA or using X-lite is 
 perfect.
 
 Before anyone jumps in, yes, as soon as I can get there I will hit the bug 
 tracker.
 
 Cheers,
 Vic Cross
 
 
 PS: I know that folks generally dislike 'me too' messages, but this time
 Too Bad -- I'm trying to provide more info to help anyone that might be
 working on problems.
 
 rant
 I hope that Iain was exaggerating when he described his bug-reporting
 experience.  Many * users are unable to commit the time to poring over
 hundreds of lines of uncommented C code and ethereal traces with thousands
 of packets captured.  So, as our way of trying to help, we provide e-mails
 like this either in response to or as an attempt to gather more
 information about the problem.  To try and get people talking about a 
 problem.
 
 How is does it help to jump on someone who is trying to get resolution to 
 a problem -- by driving them toward OpenPBX or VOCAL?  A few former 
 colleagues of mine may soon be about to learn (unfortunately) that you can 
 only piss off a customer so many times.
 
 To the Asterisk developers, bug marshals, and coders: I am jealous of you!  
 You've created a wonderful thing.  I'd love to be able to spend the amount
 of time I'd like to on Asterisk.  I'd love to be able to do more to fix
 bugs and develop features.  But I can't.  Don't think less 

Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-07 Thread Iain Stevenson
I've had this too, reported it as a bug last week and got my butt kicked 
for not being responsive enough in providing support to sort it out.  You 
could file another bug report but be sure to have a thick book ready to 
stuff down your trousers.

 Iain

--On Friday, May 7, 2004 10:43 am -0400 Brian Cuthie [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS my Cisco 7960
works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I mention this
in case it's news.  Anyone else having trouble?  What I'm seeing (er,
hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version I had installed had
fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when I make the same calls
through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).
Cheers,

Brian
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-07 Thread Brian Cuthie
It's not the switch. It's lightly loaded 100Mb.

-brian

Bisker, Scott (7805) wrote:

What kind of switch do you have your phones plugged into?  If your switch is highly loaded, or you are doing lots of multicast or broadcast, your SIP streams are going to suffer unless you are filtering that traffic at the port level or have separate VOIP VLANS.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brian Cuthie
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:43 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for
me, anyway)


It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS my Cisco 7960 
works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I mention this 
in case it's news.  Anyone else having trouble?  What I'm seeing (er, 
hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version I had installed 
had fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when I make the same 
calls through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).

Cheers,

Brian
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-07 Thread Tom
At 09:43 AM 5/7/2004, you wrote:

It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS my Cisco 7960 
works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I mention this in 
case it's news.  Anyone else having trouble?  What I'm seeing (er, 
hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version I had installed had 
fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when I make the same calls 
through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).
No dropout problems or choppy audio running Asterisk CVS-04/19/04-14:31:03 
with 4 Cisco 7940/60 SIP 6.3 phones on a 2.4GHz P4 Supermicro 
server.  Analog phones through our TDM400P do sound much better but the 
audio problems on our Cisco SIP phones are echo problems.  People are 
working on solutions.

Tom

Cheers,

Brian
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-07 Thread Rich Adamson
 It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS my Cisco 7960 
 works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I mention this 
 in case it's news.  Anyone else having trouble?  What I'm seeing (er, 
 hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version I had installed 
 had fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when I make the same 
 calls through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).

Brian,

Are you having the choppy audio only on iax2 links or on other calls as
well?

There was an issue with erratic iax2 timestamps which caused the Cisco
phones to effectively drop any sip packet that had uneven timestamps
causing extremely choppy audio. The choppy audio (as I seen it) was
only in one direction (from the iax2 source with the erratic timestamps
towards to 7960 phone).

If your issue is not associated with iax2, then be aware the Cisco v6.x
code changed DSP firmware internally, and any sip/rtp packets arriving with
uneven timestamps (within the rtp pkts) will be dropped and cause the
choppy audio. You should be able to see the timestamps with ethereal.
The timestamp difference between successive pkts should be exactly
160 milliseconds; if its anything else, the phone will drop the pkt.
(Not sure if that is a real Cisco bug or a planned change, but it
certainly has a hugh negative impact on voice quality.)

I'm running CVS-HEAD-05/02/04 with no problems today.

Rich


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RE: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-07 Thread Bisker, Scott (7805)
I've got Asterisk STABLE-CVS-4/19/04 with 12 Cisco 7960 phones 6.0 Firmware using 
ulaw, 6 Polycom IP500 ulaw phones, and 192 Zap channels.  I have Gig-E Copper to my 
server and 100Mbit-Full to all my phones.  I haven't had any choppy audio at all.  My 
switch is a Cisco 4500.  

-sb



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:30 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist
(for me, anyway)


At 09:43 AM 5/7/2004, you wrote:

It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS my Cisco 7960 
works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I mention this in 
case it's news.  Anyone else having trouble?  What I'm seeing (er, 
hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version I had installed had 
fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when I make the same calls 
through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).

No dropout problems or choppy audio running Asterisk CVS-04/19/04-14:31:03 
with 4 Cisco 7940/60 SIP 6.3 phones on a 2.4GHz P4 Supermicro 
server.  Analog phones through our TDM400P do sound much better but the 
audio problems on our Cisco SIP phones are echo problems.  People are 
working on solutions.

Tom

Cheers,

Brian
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-07 Thread Brian Cuthie
Ah, this reminds me that I forgot to mention that our network looks like 
this:

   Cisco --- SIP   Asterisk  IAX   Aterisk  IAX 
 Asterisk  PRI  PSTN

-brian

Tom wrote:

At 09:43 AM 5/7/2004, you wrote:

It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS my Cisco 
7960 works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I 
mention this in case it's news.  Anyone else having trouble?  What 
I'm seeing (er, hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version 
I had installed had fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when 
I make the same calls through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).


No dropout problems or choppy audio running Asterisk 
CVS-04/19/04-14:31:03 with 4 Cisco 7940/60 SIP 6.3 phones on a 2.4GHz 
P4 Supermicro server.  Analog phones through our TDM400P do sound much 
better but the audio problems on our Cisco SIP phones are echo 
problems.  People are working on solutions.

Tom

Cheers,

Brian
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RE: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-07 Thread brian
Just an FYI if you can run tethereal -n udp port 4569

And watch the timestamps(should be even 20ms increments per call leg).  Both
ends will need to be updated also.  If not you will get some very strange
timestamp issues and jitter and timestamps might not be right.  If you
have one end on cvs-stable and one on cvs-head you might see this problem
also.  I don't see any issues with IAX2 from my 7960 out nufone.

bkw

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:asterisk-users-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Adamson
 Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:36 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist
 (for me, anyway)

  It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS my Cisco 7960
  works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I mention this
  in case it's news.  Anyone else having trouble?  What I'm seeing (er,
  hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version I had installed
  had fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when I make the same
  calls through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).

 Brian,

 Are you having the choppy audio only on iax2 links or on other calls as
 well?

 There was an issue with erratic iax2 timestamps which caused the Cisco
 phones to effectively drop any sip packet that had uneven timestamps
 causing extremely choppy audio. The choppy audio (as I seen it) was
 only in one direction (from the iax2 source with the erratic timestamps
 towards to 7960 phone).

 If your issue is not associated with iax2, then be aware the Cisco v6.x
 code changed DSP firmware internally, and any sip/rtp packets arriving
 with
 uneven timestamps (within the rtp pkts) will be dropped and cause the
 choppy audio. You should be able to see the timestamps with ethereal.
 The timestamp difference between successive pkts should be exactly
 160 milliseconds; if its anything else, the phone will drop the pkt.
 (Not sure if that is a real Cisco bug or a planned change, but it
 certainly has a hugh negative impact on voice quality.)

 I'm running CVS-HEAD-05/02/04 with no problems today.

 Rich


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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-07 Thread Rich Adamson
Upgrade each asterisk (iax2) and the problem will go away. As bkw
mentioned, the problem sources from the location with the older
iax2 code (which probably includes the Stable cvs I believe).

NuFone had the problem in mid/late April as well, but they apparently
updated their code when the issue was discovered/corrected. Other
iax2 providers are likely to source the problem as well. Will take
awhile for everyone to get the code into their production machines.


 Ah, this reminds me that I forgot to mention that our network looks like 
 this:
 
 Cisco --- SIP   Asterisk  IAX   Aterisk  IAX 
  Asterisk  PRI  PSTN
 
 -brian
 
 
 Tom wrote:
 
  At 09:43 AM 5/7/2004, you wrote:
 
  It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS my Cisco 
  7960 works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I 
  mention this in case it's news.  Anyone else having trouble?  What 
  I'm seeing (er, hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version 
  I had installed had fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when 
  I make the same calls through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).
 
 
  No dropout problems or choppy audio running Asterisk 
  CVS-04/19/04-14:31:03 with 4 Cisco 7940/60 SIP 6.3 phones on a 2.4GHz 
  P4 Supermicro server.  Analog phones through our TDM400P do sound much 
  better but the audio problems on our Cisco SIP phones are echo 
  problems.  People are working on solutions.
 
  Tom
 
  Cheers,
 
  Brian
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-07 Thread bdolljr

Do you have a jitterbuffer enabled on your inter-asterisk IAX trunks?  If so, try disabling it  cleared everything up for me.  With jitter buffer enabled using the default settings my audio across the IAX trunk was terrible.  BTW, my 7960's are running 5.3 firmware so I probably don't see the timestamp sensitive 6.x packet drops that have been discussed here.

Bill

Brian Cuthie [EMAIL PROTECTED]








Brian Cuthie [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/07/2004 08:57 AM

Please respond to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]








To
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


cc



Subject
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist  (for me, anyway)









Ah, this reminds me that I forgot to mention that our network looks like 
this:

  Cisco --- SIP  Asterisk  IAX  Aterisk  IAX 
 Asterisk  PRI  PSTN

-brian


Tom wrote:

 At 09:43 AM 5/7/2004, you wrote:

 It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS my Cisco 
 7960 works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I 
 mention this in case it's news. Anyone else having trouble? What 
 I'm seeing (er, hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version 
 I had installed had fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when 
 I make the same calls through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).


 No dropout problems or choppy audio running Asterisk 
 CVS-04/19/04-14:31:03 with 4 Cisco 7940/60 SIP 6.3 phones on a 2.4GHz 
 P4 Supermicro server. Analog phones through our TDM400P do sound much 
 better but the audio problems on our Cisco SIP phones are echo 
 problems. People are working on solutions.

 Tom

 Cheers,

 Brian
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inline: graycol.gifinline: pic16827.gifinline: ecblank.gif

RE: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-07 Thread Ray Burkholder
This caught me as well.  Be aware that if you did any manual mods to rtp.c
or related files, you need to delete it and rerun 'make update'.  This will
bring down the proper file.  You should then be all set.

Ray Burkholder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.oneunified.net
704 644 6999 x2002


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
 Iain Stevenson
 Sent: May 7, 2004 11:13
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 
 problems persist (for me, anyway)
 
 
 
 I've had this too, reported it as a bug last week and got my 
 butt kicked 
 for not being responsive enough in providing support to sort 
 it out.  You 
 could file another bug report but be sure to have a thick 
 book ready to 
 stuff down your trousers.
 
   Iain
 
 
 --On Friday, May 7, 2004 10:43 am -0400 Brian Cuthie 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
 
  It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS 
 my Cisco 7960
  works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I 
 mention this
  in case it's news.  Anyone else having trouble?  What I'm 
 seeing (er,
  hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version I had 
 installed had
  fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when I make the 
 same calls
  through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).
 
  Cheers,
 
  Brian
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 -- 
 Scanned for viruses and dangerous content at 
 http://www.oneunified.net and is believed to be clean.
 
 


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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk and Cisco 7960 problems persist (for me, anyway)

2004-05-07 Thread James Sizemore
I checked-out CVS Head today to get realm support,  I have over hundred 
Cisco phone on my servers and I have
not noticed any Qos problems.  You may want to check the duplex of your 
switches and Asterisk boxes. If you
don't have full duplex, that is more then likely your problem.

Brian Cuthie wrote:

It seems that each time I get a new checkout of * from CVS my Cisco 
7960 works worse than before. I know this stuff's in flux, so I 
mention this in case it's news.  Anyone else having trouble?  What I'm 
seeing (er, hearing) is really choppy audio. The previous version I 
had installed had fairly frequent audio dropouts (not present when I 
make the same calls through the same * box using a TDM400P interface).

Cheers,

Brian
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