Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-20 Thread Johann Steinwendtner

John,

why don't you migrate slowly to asterisk ? If you want to keep
most of your analog phone hardware, leave it on your Meridian 1.
The M1 is doing a good job on features on analog phone sets.
Also, your users are familiar with the call handling of the
M1. Install VoIP phones on Asterisk and connect Asterisk via
PRI to the M1.
Then you can replace step by step your phones.

Regards,

Hans

John Goerzen schrieb:

I work for a company that is nearing the end-of-life on its existing
Nortel Meridian switch and is considering Asterisk.  We have
approximately 200 existing extensions, and probably 150 out of those 200
are using basic analog phones and would stay that way.  The rest would
have VOIP phones at the desk.

We're seriously considering switching to Asterisk.  I've done quite a
bit of tinkering with Asterisk for my home, but I'm not certain about a
few aspects of how we might deploy Asterisk in the enterprise.

Here are my questions:

1. Where could I look for some resources on server sizing?  Is it
   any problem to support this number of users with a single server?

2. What do we need to do for our data network to make VOIP reliable?
   QoS, basic traffic prioritization on the switch, vlan, ???

3. What's the best way to integrate these 150 analog extensions?
   I've seen interface boxes that usually come in 24-port sizes.  Some
   have an Ethernet/SIP interface to hook up to Asterisk, and others
   have a T1 interface.  What sounds best and is the most reliable?

4. What is a good company to contract with for emergency support?
   Digium?

5. What are people doing to make VOIP phones resiliant in the face of
   power outages?

Is there anybody here that would be willing to serve as a reference
check for Asterisk should we pursue that path?

Thanks,

-- John


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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-19 Thread Ed Greenberg



--On Thursday, November 17, 2005 11:13 AM -0500 C F [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:



Use Channel Banks, they are the best possible. A quad port T1 gives
you 96 channels, all can be used for analog stations. which means you
will need at least 2 quad t1 cards. I personaly like the Adit 600 for
this job.



We did a smaller PBX... 40 extensions, 20 outgoing modems for polling 
distant equipment.


We have a 6mb incoming internet connection with no QOS or VLAN work done.

We used, and I'm happy with, the Audiocodes MP124 for analog extensions. 
Rock solid, presents a SIP interface to Asterisk. Store configs on a tftp 
server. We even do outgoing modem calls over the MP124. Haven't played with 
fax yet.


We bought used Cisco 7960s from VoipSupply for the sets. Got 40 good ones - 
no returns.


I wrote some scripts that allow me to rebuild extensions.conf, sip.conf, 
voicemail.conf and the Cisco .cfg files from a few flat file tables that 
can be maintained in excel (or vi :) I want to go to Realtime for those 
config files, so I can do a small PHP app and offload the add, move, change 
feature.


We ported our block of 100 DIDs from SBC to Level3 (we are direct connected 
to L3) for VoIP delivery. Also ported a few 800 numbers.


Wrote two IVRs for answering the two 800 numbers, and also for callers who 
transfer out of voicemail.


We also have a channelized T1 for a specialized application. Terminated it 
in a TE410.


We run the PBX on a Dell 1850. Two power supplies, UPS, Raid 1, Fedora Core 
3, Asterisk 1.2beta1 (gonna upgrade soon).


No significant complaints.

Is it mission critical? Well, if it goes south, 35 angry people and about 
10 million in annual sales will be impacted. (Also, children will not get 
their ice cream -- one of the businesses is ice cream distribution :) It's 
critical to MY mission as their consultant that they be happy, so I guess 
it is.


The server load average doesn't even get off the peg.

I would not hesitate to put another 200 extensions on it. Go for it.

/edg 
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-18 Thread pdhales
 I disagree with PaulH on this one. Cheap IP phones makes for *cheap*
 phone, cheap sound, and cheap features. The cheapest IP phone you can
 get will come to around $60.00 USD, which multiplied by 150 makes
 $9,000.00. While a channel bank (ADIT 600) with 6 FXS cards (48 ports)
 runs around $1200.00 multiplied by 3 (3 * 48 = 144 the closest I can
 get without overbuying) makes for $3600.00, each QuadT1 card runs
 around $1,500.00 or $2,500.00 with echo can, multiplied by 2 makes
 $5,000.00 at the most, Total = $8,600.00 at the most, and you already
 have the phones, and I'm telling you that it will be cheaper. Also,
 you might have to rerun wiring for VoIP, beside the fact that for
 cheap VoIP phones you don't get POE, which also means you need outlets
 where you are going to put phones, as well as in featurewise; you can
 do much more in the DP with ananlog phones (or VoIP since it's in the
 DP), then *any* VoIP phone under $100.00 can do without the DP, and
 even a Cisco or Polycom cannot do much without some fancy programming
 from the phone itself with no DP.

The digium 24 port card will also add another option to this

PaulH
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-18 Thread C F
On 11/18/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I disagree with PaulH on this one. Cheap IP phones makes for *cheap*
  phone, cheap sound, and cheap features. The cheapest IP phone you can
  get will come to around $60.00 USD, which multiplied by 150 makes
  $9,000.00. While a channel bank (ADIT 600) with 6 FXS cards (48 ports)
  runs around $1200.00 multiplied by 3 (3 * 48 = 144 the closest I can
  get without overbuying) makes for $3600.00, each QuadT1 card runs
  around $1,500.00 or $2,500.00 with echo can, multiplied by 2 makes
  $5,000.00 at the most, Total = $8,600.00 at the most, and you already
  have the phones, and I'm telling you that it will be cheaper. Also,
  you might have to rerun wiring for VoIP, beside the fact that for
  cheap VoIP phones you don't get POE, which also means you need outlets
  where you are going to put phones, as well as in featurewise; you can
  do much more in the DP with ananlog phones (or VoIP since it's in the
  DP), then *any* VoIP phone under $100.00 can do without the DP, and
  even a Cisco or Polycom cannot do much without some fancy programming
  from the phone itself with no DP.

 The digium 24 port card will also add another option to this

 PaulH

I'm sure it will, but for now I would only use it for testing, since
we can get a card that does 4 times as much (Digium quad T1) with some
external help (Channel Banks), and the Adit 600 has been proven that
it does it the way it should.
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[Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-17 Thread John Goerzen
I work for a company that is nearing the end-of-life on its existing
Nortel Meridian switch and is considering Asterisk.  We have
approximately 200 existing extensions, and probably 150 out of those 200
are using basic analog phones and would stay that way.  The rest would
have VOIP phones at the desk.

We're seriously considering switching to Asterisk.  I've done quite a
bit of tinkering with Asterisk for my home, but I'm not certain about a
few aspects of how we might deploy Asterisk in the enterprise.

Here are my questions:

1. Where could I look for some resources on server sizing?  Is it
   any problem to support this number of users with a single server?

2. What do we need to do for our data network to make VOIP reliable?
   QoS, basic traffic prioritization on the switch, vlan, ???

3. What's the best way to integrate these 150 analog extensions?
   I've seen interface boxes that usually come in 24-port sizes.  Some
   have an Ethernet/SIP interface to hook up to Asterisk, and others
   have a T1 interface.  What sounds best and is the most reliable?

4. What is a good company to contract with for emergency support?
   Digium?

5. What are people doing to make VOIP phones resiliant in the face of
   power outages?

Is there anybody here that would be willing to serve as a reference
check for Asterisk should we pursue that path?

Thanks,

-- John


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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-17 Thread C F
On 11/17/05, John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I work for a company that is nearing the end-of-life on its existing
 Nortel Meridian switch and is considering Asterisk.  We have
 approximately 200 existing extensions, and probably 150 out of those 200
 are using basic analog phones and would stay that way.  The rest would
 have VOIP phones at the desk.

 We're seriously considering switching to Asterisk.  I've done quite a
 bit of tinkering with Asterisk for my home, but I'm not certain about a
 few aspects of how we might deploy Asterisk in the enterprise.

 Here are my questions:

 1. Where could I look for some resources on server sizing?  Is it
any problem to support this number of users with a single server?


Not a problem at all, just make sure you have as much redundancy as
possible in the server (RAID, Dual Power Supply, etc.).


 2. What do we need to do for our data network to make VOIP reliable?
QoS, basic traffic prioritization on the switch, vlan, ???


If you are not running a bandwidth hungy network, then you might be
able to work with just one vlan, if you don't want to take the chance,
then yes you need: QOS, and VLANs.

 3. What's the best way to integrate these 150 analog extensions?
I've seen interface boxes that usually come in 24-port sizes.  Some
have an Ethernet/SIP interface to hook up to Asterisk, and others
have a T1 interface.  What sounds best and is the most reliable?

Use Channel Banks, they are the best possible. A quad port T1 gives
you 96 channels, all can be used for analog stations. which means you
will need at least 2 quad t1 cards. I personaly like the Adit 600 for
this job.

 4. What is a good company to contract with for emergency support?
Digium?

If you need something like this, then either look on the wiki for
local consultants, or you should consider digiums business edition
package.


 5. What are people doing to make VOIP phones resiliant in the face of
power outages?

POE swithces that are powered by UPS.


 Is there anybody here that would be willing to serve as a reference
 check for Asterisk should we pursue that path?

I think the list is around 24-7. :)


 Thanks,

 -- John


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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-17 Thread pdhales
- Original Message - 
From: John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 2:37 AM
Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments


 I work for a company that is nearing the end-of-life on its existing
 Nortel Meridian switch and is considering Asterisk.  We have
 approximately 200 existing extensions, and probably 150 out of those 200
 are using basic analog phones and would stay that way.  The rest would
 have VOIP phones at the desk.

 We're seriously considering switching to Asterisk.  I've done quite a
 bit of tinkering with Asterisk for my home, but I'm not certain about a
 few aspects of how we might deploy Asterisk in the enterprise.

 Here are my questions:

 1. Where could I look for some resources on server sizing?  Is it
any problem to support this number of users with a single server?

A decent dual xeon should be fine for that...or 2 or 3 smaller servers...
(depends on the funtionality you need)

 2. What do we need to do for our data network to make VOIP reliable?
QoS, basic traffic prioritization on the switch, vlan, ???

If it's doable, a serapate data network for VOIP.
A friends install moved to that after running VOIP on their main network,
and it made a huge difference.
YMMV.

 3. What's the best way to integrate these 150 analog extensions?
I've seen interface boxes that usually come in 24-port sizes.  Some
have an Ethernet/SIP interface to hook up to Asterisk, and others
have a T1 interface.  What sounds best and is the most reliable?

Here I am going to disagree with you. Buy cheap IP phones.
The hardware, setup and lack of functionality of analog extensions makes
them a second choice for me.

 4. What is a good company to contract with for emergency support?
Digium?

Find a local consultant. There are quite a few around...

 5. What are people doing to make VOIP phones resiliant in the face of
power outages?

I have found the device called a UPS to be a useful in this regard, when
hooked up to POE.

 Is there anybody here that would be willing to serve as a reference
 check for Asterisk should we pursue that path?

I could. But I live in melbourne, australia.
Which is not the same as austria.


 Thanks,

 -- John

All just my 2 cents.

PaulH

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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-17 Thread C F
On 11/17/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 - Original Message -
 From: John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
 Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 2:37 AM
 Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments


  I work for a company that is nearing the end-of-life on its existing
  Nortel Meridian switch and is considering Asterisk.  We have
  approximately 200 existing extensions, and probably 150 out of those 200
  are using basic analog phones and would stay that way.  The rest would
  have VOIP phones at the desk.
 
  We're seriously considering switching to Asterisk.  I've done quite a
  bit of tinkering with Asterisk for my home, but I'm not certain about a
  few aspects of how we might deploy Asterisk in the enterprise.
 
  Here are my questions:
 
  1. Where could I look for some resources on server sizing?  Is it
 any problem to support this number of users with a single server?

 A decent dual xeon should be fine for that...or 2 or 3 smaller servers...
 (depends on the funtionality you need)

  2. What do we need to do for our data network to make VOIP reliable?
 QoS, basic traffic prioritization on the switch, vlan, ???

 If it's doable, a serapate data network for VOIP.
 A friends install moved to that after running VOIP on their main network,
 and it made a huge difference.
 YMMV.

  3. What's the best way to integrate these 150 analog extensions?
 I've seen interface boxes that usually come in 24-port sizes.  Some
 have an Ethernet/SIP interface to hook up to Asterisk, and others
 have a T1 interface.  What sounds best and is the most reliable?

 Here I am going to disagree with you. Buy cheap IP phones.
 The hardware, setup and lack of functionality of analog extensions makes
 them a second choice for me.


I disagree with PaulH on this one. Cheap IP phones makes for *cheap*
phone, cheap sound, and cheap features. The cheapest IP phone you can
get will come to around $60.00 USD, which multiplied by 150 makes
$9,000.00. While a channel bank (ADIT 600) with 6 FXS cards (48 ports)
runs around $1200.00 multiplied by 3 (3 * 48 = 144 the closest I can
get without overbuying) makes for $3600.00, each QuadT1 card runs
around $1,500.00 or $2,500.00 with echo can, multiplied by 2 makes
$5,000.00 at the most, Total = $8,600.00 at the most, and you already
have the phones, and I'm telling you that it will be cheaper. Also,
you might have to rerun wiring for VoIP, beside the fact that for
cheap VoIP phones you don't get POE, which also means you need outlets
where you are going to put phones, as well as in featurewise; you can
do much more in the DP with ananlog phones (or VoIP since it's in the
DP), then *any* VoIP phone under $100.00 can do without the DP, and
even a Cisco or Polycom cannot do much without some fancy programming
from the phone itself with no DP.

  4. What is a good company to contract with for emergency support?
 Digium?

 Find a local consultant. There are quite a few around...

  5. What are people doing to make VOIP phones resiliant in the face of
 power outages?

 I have found the device called a UPS to be a useful in this regard, when
 hooked up to POE.

  Is there anybody here that would be willing to serve as a reference
  check for Asterisk should we pursue that path?

 I could. But I live in melbourne, australia.
 Which is not the same as austria.

 
  Thanks,
 
  -- John

 All just my 2 cents.

 PaulH

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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-17 Thread pdhales
 I disagree with PaulH on this one. Cheap IP phones makes for *cheap*
 phone, cheap sound, and cheap features. The cheapest IP phone you can
 get will come to around $60.00 USD, which multiplied by 150 makes
 $9,000.00. While a channel bank (ADIT 600) with 6 FXS cards (48 ports)
 runs around $1200.00 multiplied by 3 (3 * 48 = 144 the closest I can
 get without overbuying) makes for $3600.00, each QuadT1 card runs
 around $1,500.00 or $2,500.00 with echo can, multiplied by 2 makes
 $5,000.00 at the most, Total = $8,600.00 at the most, and you already
 have the phones, and I'm telling you that it will be cheaper. Also,
 you might have to rerun wiring for VoIP, beside the fact that for
 cheap VoIP phones you don't get POE, which also means you need outlets
 where you are going to put phones, as well as in featurewise; you can
 do much more in the DP with ananlog phones (or VoIP since it's in the
 DP), then *any* VoIP phone under $100.00 can do without the DP, and
 even a Cisco or Polycom cannot do much without some fancy programming
 from the phone itself with no DP.

Hm..it's pretty close price wiseI thought the channel banks
would cost more...

With regards to functionality, I would have to test the two setups side by
side.
I know that at a site we setup, the grandstream BT101's came out about the
same as cheap analogs with regards to quality and functionality...

PaulH

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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-17 Thread C F
On 11/17/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I disagree with PaulH on this one. Cheap IP phones makes for *cheap*
  phone, cheap sound, and cheap features. The cheapest IP phone you can
  get will come to around $60.00 USD, which multiplied by 150 makes
  $9,000.00. While a channel bank (ADIT 600) with 6 FXS cards (48 ports)
  runs around $1200.00 multiplied by 3 (3 * 48 = 144 the closest I can
  get without overbuying) makes for $3600.00, each QuadT1 card runs
  around $1,500.00 or $2,500.00 with echo can, multiplied by 2 makes
  $5,000.00 at the most, Total = $8,600.00 at the most, and you already
  have the phones, and I'm telling you that it will be cheaper. Also,
  you might have to rerun wiring for VoIP, beside the fact that for
  cheap VoIP phones you don't get POE, which also means you need outlets
  where you are going to put phones, as well as in featurewise; you can
  do much more in the DP with ananlog phones (or VoIP since it's in the
  DP), then *any* VoIP phone under $100.00 can do without the DP, and
  even a Cisco or Polycom cannot do much without some fancy programming
  from the phone itself with no DP.

 Hm..it's pretty close price wiseI thought the channel banks
 would cost more...

 With regards to functionality, I would have to test the two setups side by
 side.
 I know that at a site we setup, the grandstream BT101's came out about the
 same as cheap analogs with regards to quality and functionality...

This is exactly what I disagree with. The BT101's are not worth
*anything* even if you pay me to take them I will *never* install them
for a client. They need babysitting, rebooting, terrible sound
quality, and are very not userfriendly. Going the analog way (vs
BT101) is not close pricewise it is a *lot* cheaper, since it works.
The BT101's don't, it creates to much trouble for any
office to deal with. Quality wise, an analog phone is the quality
users are looking for, since that's what they are used to. The BT101
cannot offer that. Functionality: what function does the BT101 have
that you like so much? last time I checked the conf button wasn't even
working, xfers you get with features.conf, and ringers sound much
nicer on analog phones, CallerID works much better on analog phones.
Can you please name me one feature that the BT101 has that is at least
as good as an analog phone (besides for the xfer button, which with
any decent analog phone can be programmed if it has dedicated one
touch speed dial buttons)?
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-17 Thread Brian Capouch

C F wrote:


This is exactly what I disagree with. The BT101's are not worth
*anything* even if you pay me to take them I will *never* install them
for a client. They need babysitting, rebooting, terrible sound
quality, and are very not userfriendly. Going the analog way (vs
BT101) is not close pricewise it is a *lot* cheaper, since it works.
The BT101's don't, it creates to much trouble for any
office to deal with. 


We've got a couple dozen BT-101s deployed in an office environment.  No 
babysitting, no complaints from users, no rebooting.  Their sound 
quality isn't the same as a Cisco 7920, but neither is their price. . .


In other words, folks, YMMV.

I say it's worth a person's while to invest a bit in a prototype lab, 
and that way you can form your own opinions and not have to rely on the 
often-conflicting opinions of others. .


B.
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-17 Thread pdhales
 Original Message - 
From: Brian Capouch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments


 C F wrote:

  This is exactly what I disagree with. The BT101's are not worth
  *anything* even if you pay me to take them I will *never* install them
  for a client. They need babysitting, rebooting, terrible sound
  quality, and are very not userfriendly. Going the analog way (vs
  BT101) is not close pricewise it is a *lot* cheaper, since it works.
  The BT101's don't, it creates to much trouble for any
  office to deal with.

 We've got a couple dozen BT-101s deployed in an office environment.  No
 babysitting, no complaints from users, no rebooting.  Their sound
 quality isn't the same as a Cisco 7920, but neither is their price. . .

 In other words, folks, YMMV.

 I say it's worth a person's while to invest a bit in a prototype lab,
 and that way you can form your own opinions and not have to rely on the
 often-conflicting opinions of others. .


Sounds like why I wrote - 'I would have to test them side by side'

PaulH

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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-17 Thread pdhales
  Hm..it's pretty close price wiseI thought the channel banks
  would cost more...
 
  With regards to functionality, I would have to test the two setups side
by
  side.
  I know that at a site we setup, the grandstream BT101's came out about
the
  same as cheap analogs with regards to quality and functionality...

 This is exactly what I disagree with. The BT101's are not worth
 *anything* even if you pay me to take them I will *never* install them
 for a client. They need babysitting, rebooting, terrible sound
 quality, and are very not userfriendly. Going the analog way (vs
 BT101) is not close pricewise it is a *lot* cheaper, since it works.
 The BT101's don't, it creates to much trouble for any
 office to deal with. Quality wise, an analog phone is the quality
 users are looking for, since that's what they are used to. The BT101
 cannot offer that. Functionality: what function does the BT101 have
 that you like so much? last time I checked the conf button wasn't even
 working, xfers you get with features.conf, and ringers sound much
 nicer on analog phones, CallerID works much better on analog phones.
 Can you please name me one feature that the BT101 has that is at least
 as good as an analog phone (besides for the xfer button, which with
 any decent analog phone can be programmed if it has dedicated one
 touch speed dial buttons)?

I think I already agreed with you - that nice analog phones are better than
cheap IP phones.

PaulH

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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Mission-Critical Deployments

2005-11-17 Thread pdhales
 We've got a couple dozen BT-101s deployed in an office environment.  No 
 babysitting, no complaints from users, no rebooting.  Their sound 
 quality isn't the same as a Cisco 7920, but neither is their price. . .
 
 In other words, folks, YMMV.
 
 I say it's worth a person's while to invest a bit in a prototype lab, 
 and that way you can form your own opinions and not have to rely on the 
 often-conflicting opinions of others. .
 
 B.

I think the main lesson here is - test! Decide! Live with it!
(or make sure you can live with it...)

PaulH
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