Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Can anyone explain reason for this echo
On Monday 21 November 2005 09:23, Doug Meredith wrote: > That wasn't me. hahaha you're quite right. I wasn't paying attention to who replied. My apologies. I feel that my points still apply, though. -A. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] Re: Can anyone explain reason for this echo
Andrew Kohlsmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I took exception to your painting the >Digium hardware echo can module and the software echo cans in zaptel as >trash, as they work very well for many people. They clearly aren't >sufficient for your specific needs, and thus the Orion Telecom echo canceller >is better -- and I stress this -- for you. That wasn't me. Doug -- Doug Meredith ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) SystemGuard - Oracle remote support 877-974-8273 (87-SYSGUARD) 506-854-7997 www.systemguard.com ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Can anyone explain reason for this echo
On Monday 21 November 2005 07:53, Doug Meredith wrote:
> Two products are both intended to eliminate echo, and product A, due
> to it's design, can't eliminate some of the echos that product B can.
> It seems quite fair to say that B is a better product than A.
It depends on your specific needs.
If your palate can't tell the difference between a $50 bottle of wine and a
$5000 bottle of wine, do you still buy the $5000 bottle because it must be
better?
As I stated, the software echo can in Zaptel and the hardware echo can from
Digium work reasonably well for their intended purpose. If you need
something more, then yes, these products are insufficient and you'll need a
more powerful (better in your parlance) echo canceller. But for many people,
the free one works pretty damn well, so buying a more powerful ("better")
echo canceller is a waste of money, rack space and power.
Yes, I am splitting hairs -- something that solves your problem where
something else couldn't doesn't make the latter "clearly lacking" or
"complete rubbish" across the board. I took exception to your painting the
Digium hardware echo can module and the software echo cans in zaptel as
trash, as they work very well for many people. They clearly aren't
sufficient for your specific needs, and thus the Orion Telecom echo canceller
is better -- and I stress this -- for you. It's overkill for many others,
and I'm willing to bet that it's still insufficent for others still.
-A.
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[Asterisk-Users] Re: Can anyone explain reason for this echo
Andrew Kohlsmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >It doesn't really matter whether you buy it (my explanation) or not -- if your >specific echo is greater than what the software and/or hardware are designed >to handle, it will work poorly. It's called a misapplication of the >technology. Two products are both intended to eliminate echo, and product A, due to it's design, can't eliminate some of the echos that product B can. It seems quite fair to say that B is a better product than A. Doug -- Doug Meredith ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) SystemGuard - Oracle remote support 877-974-8273 (87-SYSGUARD) 506-854-7997 www.systemguard.com ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Can anyone explain reason for this echo
On Friday 18 November 2005 15:58, Eric Bishop wrote: > Andrew, I really don't buy that. Everyone seems to blame everything else > other Digium for faulty products. Would you be as soft on the vendor if it > was Microsoft? > The simple fact is they have made a fantastic PBX software product and > along with some reasonably priced PC telephony hardware. However echo > elimination is clearly lacking in all their products. If you simply take > this fact into account when planning installations, you will save yourself > a lot time and trouble. It doesn't really matter whether you buy it (my explanation) or not -- if your specific echo is greater than what the software and/or hardware are designed to handle, it will work poorly. It's called a misapplication of the technology. Blaming the software or hardware for your misapplication is poor form. Are the echo cancellers in Zaptel's drivers perfect? Hell no. But they work pretty damn well if they are applied as designed. The same goes for their hardware echo cancellation module. Asterisk is open source. Several people have stepped in and done what they could to improve what was there, and their efforts have helped hundreds, if not thousands of people, myself among them. If someone misapplies a Microsoft product I don't bash Microsoft, I chide the person who either isn't able or isn't willing to read the directions on the box. Now granted a great deal of the "instructions" for Asterisk are written in invisible ink which makes these two particular groups of people a LOT larger than they could be, but that's part of the price (at least at this point in time) with Asterisk. If you want something that works right out of the box, buy ABE, buy g.168-compliant echo cancellers and save yourself the time/hassle/sanity. Or pony up for a proprietary (and thus very limited) PBX. Others choose a different route. That doesn't make us astroturfers or fanboys. -A. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Can anyone explain reason for this echo
On 11/18/05, Andrew Kohlsmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Friday 18 November 2005 00:30, Eric Bishop wrote:> I purchased the following item:> http://www.oriontelecom.com/echo_canceller/1u_telnet/e1_1u_19inch_ec.html >> As you can see not a very highly spec'd product but does the job well.Perhaps not highly specc'd but with tail lengths of 64ms bidirectional or128ms unidirectional, it's already more capable than the software cancellers (16ms unidirectional with echocancel=128) and I believe that the VPM isn'tall that much better, but I'm not 100% sure now that I can't find the specson it.> I don't accept the fact that mine is a special case. In fact if anything it > should be better than most other scenarios as we are using Tier 1 hardware> (all HP), Digium Rev 2 firmware and our rack is about 10 metres from the> CO.None of that really matters -- it's the overall disance from your RJ48 to the far end's phone that determines the TDM delay, and delays in yourmotherboard's PCI implementation that cause echo. By far mostly the latter. Andrew, I really don't buy that. Everyone seems to blame everything else other Digium for faulty products. Would you be as soft on the vendor if it was Microsoft? The simple fact is they have made a fantastic PBX software product and along with some reasonably priced PC telephony hardware. However echo elimination is clearly lacking in all their products. If you simply take this fact into account when planning installations, you will save yourself a lot time and trouble. -A.___--Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com --Asterisk-Users mailing listAsterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-usersTo UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Can anyone explain reason for this echo
On Friday 18 November 2005 00:30, Eric Bishop wrote: > I purchased the following item: > http://www.oriontelecom.com/echo_canceller/1u_telnet/e1_1u_19inch_ec.html > > As you can see not a very highly spec'd product but does the job well. Perhaps not highly specc'd but with tail lengths of 64ms bidirectional or 128ms unidirectional, it's already more capable than the software cancellers (16ms unidirectional with echocancel=128) and I believe that the VPM isn't all that much better, but I'm not 100% sure now that I can't find the specs on it. > I don't accept the fact that mine is a special case. In fact if anything it > should be better than most other scenarios as we are using Tier 1 hardware > (all HP), Digium Rev 2 firmware and our rack is about 10 metres from the > CO. None of that really matters -- it's the overall disance from your RJ48 to the far end's phone that determines the TDM delay, and delays in your motherboard's PCI implementation that cause echo. By far mostly the latter. -A. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Can anyone explain reason for this echo
Hi Eric, Eric Bishop wrote: I purchased the following item: http://www.oriontelecom.com/echo_canceller/1u_telnet/e1_1u_19inch_ec.html As you can see not a very highly spec'd product but does the job well. Can you indicate price range for this unit ? Florian ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Can anyone explain reason for this echo
I purchased the following item: http://www.oriontelecom.com/echo_canceller/1u_telnet/e1_1u_19inch_ec.html As you can see not a very highly spec'd product but does the job well. I don't accept the fact that mine is a special case. In fact if anything it should be better than most other scenarios as we are using Tier 1 hardware (all HP), Digium Rev 2 firmware and our rack is about 10 metres from the CO. On 11/18/05, Andrew Kohlsmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thursday 17 November 2005 21:01, Eric Bishop wrote:> I got sick of tweaking and playing with Digium's ridiuculous voodoo so I> just bought a dedicated E1 PRI echo canceller and bingo, problem solved.> Digium make some good IP PBX software and hardware but all their echo > cancellers, hardware and software are complete rubbish.There are many, many of us who disagree. The echo was not solveable on yourparticular installation. You could have a longer tail than the software echo can Asterisk has can handle, and longer than the Digium hardware echo can canmanage. I am interested in the echo can you settled upon, and what its specsare.Would you mind sharing this information? -A.___--Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com --Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.comhttp://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-usersTo UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Can anyone explain reason for this echo
On Thursday 17 November 2005 21:01, Eric Bishop wrote: > I got sick of tweaking and playing with Digium's ridiuculous voodoo so I > just bought a dedicated E1 PRI echo canceller and bingo, problem solved. > Digium make some good IP PBX software and hardware but all their echo > cancellers, hardware and software are complete rubbish. There are many, many of us who disagree. The echo was not solveable on your particular installation. You could have a longer tail than the software echo can Asterisk has can handle, and longer than the Digium hardware echo can can manage. I am interested in the echo can you settled upon, and what its specs are. Would you mind sharing this information? -A. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Can anyone explain reason for this echo
I got sick of tweaking and playing with Digium's ridiuculous voodoo so I just bought a dedicated E1 PRI echo canceller and bingo, problem solved. Digium make some good IP PBX software and hardware but all their echo cancellers, hardware and software are complete rubbish. On 11/18/05, Doug Meredith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Eric Bishop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>If I call our Asterisk box via Disa and then place a call to one of the>problem analogue numbers (native Zap bridge) I don't get any echo. So the >echo seems to occur only when using a SIP handset and making a call to an>analogue number.The echo is probably always there. You only notice it with the SIPphone because of the additional latency that this introduces. Doug--Doug Meredith ([EMAIL PROTECTED])SystemGuard - Oracle remote support877-974-8273 (87-SYSGUARD)506-854-7997 www.systemguard.com___--Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com --Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.comhttp://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-usersTo UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] Re: Can anyone explain reason for this echo
Eric Bishop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >If I call our Asterisk box via Disa and then place a call to one of the >problem analogue numbers (native Zap bridge) I don't get any echo. So the >echo seems to occur only when using a SIP handset and making a call to an >analogue number. The echo is probably always there. You only notice it with the SIP phone because of the additional latency that this introduces. Doug -- Doug Meredith ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) SystemGuard - Oracle remote support 877-974-8273 (87-SYSGUARD) 506-854-7997 www.systemguard.com ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
