RE: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Ferrell Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 1:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions Joe, In this case the patent is on a set on mathamatical algorithms... There is no competition possible. All and any implementations of that algorithm are subject to the patent. This sort of patent is sort of like Newton patenting gravity or a patent on 1+1=2. The technique is more or less a law of nature. Bruce Joseph Finley wrote: I think you patent haters are looking at the negative aspect only. Remember, that competition drives innovation. If everyone used the same product there would be no incentive to develop anything new or along the same lines, where's reward to innovate if there is no incentive, why do it? Incentive being the $$ for your work. This thread could go further into music, art, publications, pharmaceuticals, etc. I don't believe in monopolies, but it would lead to an intellectual monopoly thus a stagnant never changing technology. I know the concept will be hard to understand for some. Don't flame, just understand the other side. Joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Walt Reed Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 02:58:47PM -0500, Steven Critchfield said: On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 14:45, Kevin Walsh wrote: Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So while I think it is important, I also can't seem to draw a reasonable line. 24 months in most software isn't enough time from day 0 to make any reward for the work, at least not monetarily. What software project out there do you know had a major roll out sufficiently under 24 months from beginning of programming to have paid the programming staff off after say 1 year past the initial 24 months? Software patents encourage monopoly rather than freedom. Idiots write a line of code and then feel that they've invented something. Temporary monopoly. Of course with the current time limits, it might as well be permanent since the techniques will be mostly useless by the time they are free. And don't forget that with patents, it actually encourages splintering of technologies and hinders compatability. It happens all around us - GSM vs CDMA, GIF/PNG/JPEG, MPeg/OGG/WMA, etc. With software patents, the only benefit is to the patent holder. Users just get screwed. ___ I see your point. Not necessarily agree 100%, but I do understand it in this instance as you describe. It is ashamed that law has to come into play for almost every thought or attempt in anything nowadays. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
Its extortion in my bookI've been told horror stories from 1st party sources about how Voiceage negotiates with their potential customers. Then most of us know how much of PITA Voiceage has made codec_g729b.so, just so they can soak every nickel they possibly can out of Digium. I don't think the $10/port is so much an issue for anyone as it is that it's so amazingly hard (impossible) to transfer those licenses to new machines. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 12:07, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: Just remember that you were given those patents as incentive to invent so that ultimately your work would go into the public domain so we can all enjoy it. We are buying your work with our tax dollars by protecting it for a short period of time so you have a little monetary incentive. BZZZT! Wrong. He was given those patents as in incentive to invent something that he could SELL without everyone on the planet copying his hard work and competing on his idea. Patents put the process out in the public so that it's easy to see when someone's infringing. Lets please remember that this is a global mailing list now and the history of patents may be different from place to place. In the US, patent law is similar to copyright law. For a time you are given exclusive rights to your invention. You are able to charge money for it. You are able to do any number of useful things as the inventor. The tradeoff for patents is that at the end of the patent term, the public domain gets the benefits of your work. Our entire country is built upon a rich and diverse public domain. If one chooses to invent, yet does not choose to patent those inventions, they potentially loose any advantage of being the sole gateway to the invention. Look here and please don't be offended by the kid part, it isn't intentional just a good list. http://www.uspto.gov/go/kids/kidprimer.html 17 years for software patents is FAR too long, IMO, but that's an entirely different story. IMO software patents shoudln't be for more than ~24 months since the industry moves so blazingly fast. I'm of mixed feelings here. I don't like software patents at all, but without them, some of the voice compression that is out there would possibly not have been developed. What would have been the incentive for the telecoms to allow the public in on some of the voice compressions with out getting paid for the work. So while I think it is important, I also can't seem to draw a reasonable line. 24 months in most software isn't enough time from day 0 to make any reward for the work, at least not monetarily. What software project out there do you know had a major roll out sufficiently under 24 months from beginning of programming to have paid the programming staff off after say 1 year past the initial 24 months? -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
I totally agree software patents are far too long. 24 months seems fair... it also provides some incentives to make a better product. :) bkw -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:asterisk-users- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Kohlsmith Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions Just remember that you were given those patents as incentive to invent so that ultimately your work would go into the public domain so we can all enjoy it. We are buying your work with our tax dollars by protecting it for a short period of time so you have a little monetary incentive. BZZZT! Wrong. He was given those patents as in incentive to invent something that he could SELL without everyone on the planet copying his hard work and competing on his idea. Patents put the process out in the public so that it's easy to see when someone's infringing. 17 years for software patents is FAR too long, IMO, but that's an entirely different story. IMO software patents shoudln't be for more than ~24 months since the industry moves so blazingly fast. Regards, Andrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 17 years for software patents is FAR too long, IMO, but that's an entirely different story. IMO software patents shoudln't be for more than ~24 months since the industry moves so blazingly fast. I'm of mixed feelings here. I don't like software patents at all, but without them, some of the voice compression that is out there would possibly not have been developed. What would have been the incentive for the telecoms to allow the public in on some of the voice compressions with out getting paid for the work. The advantage should be obvious: The telecom companies need common standards so that equipment from competing suppliers can communicate with one another. Given an openly-usable standard, Voiceage would be free to attempt to sell their sub-standard software with full protection from copyright laws. Others would be equally free to implement an independent version that didn't rely upon IDE disks, channel limits and other nastiness. So while I think it is important, I also can't seem to draw a reasonable line. 24 months in most software isn't enough time from day 0 to make any reward for the work, at least not monetarily. What software project out there do you know had a major roll out sufficiently under 24 months from beginning of programming to have paid the programming staff off after say 1 year past the initial 24 months? Software patents encourage monopoly rather than freedom. Idiots write a line of code and then feel that they've invented something. Luckily, people who live in free countries, such as England, are not subject to such stupidity. We are free to write anything we like without having to hire a lawyer to check and double-check every line of code for patent infringements. If you're not careful, software development will turn into a legal minefield over there; Nobody will feel safe creating code in the USA and will have to turn to free countries, where software patents don't apply, to fill the demand for new software. -- _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ K e v i n W a l s h _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/[EMAIL PROTECTED] _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 14:45, Kevin Walsh wrote: Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So while I think it is important, I also can't seem to draw a reasonable line. 24 months in most software isn't enough time from day 0 to make any reward for the work, at least not monetarily. What software project out there do you know had a major roll out sufficiently under 24 months from beginning of programming to have paid the programming staff off after say 1 year past the initial 24 months? Software patents encourage monopoly rather than freedom. Idiots write a line of code and then feel that they've invented something. Temporary monopoly. Of course with the current time limits, it might as well be permanent since the techniques will be mostly useless by the time they are free. Luckily, people who live in free countries, such as England, are not subject to such stupidity. We are free to write anything we like without having to hire a lawyer to check and double-check every line of code for patent infringements. If you're not careful, software development will turn into a legal minefield over there; Nobody will feel safe creating code in the USA and will have to turn to free countries, where software patents don't apply, to fill the demand for new software. Actually I think it is going to be even worse than you stated. Having software developed in foreign countries will not make it any safer for us in the US to use the software. We will still be treading through that legal mine field. Of course, I think the problem here is that even if you roll back software patents we will have methodologies that can be implemented in software that are still patentable. Ohh well. Thanks for the depressing thread. On to threads that are on-topic for this list. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
BZZZT! Wrong too. Patents are a trade. The holder of the IP opens it up for public scrutiny and in return for exclusive control. Otherwise, companies would (and often do) keep the IP a trade secret. -brian Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: Just remember that you were given those patents as incentive to invent so that ultimately your work would go into the public domain so we can all enjoy it. We are buying your work with our tax dollars by protecting it for a short period of time so you have a little monetary incentive. BZZZT! Wrong. He was given those patents as in incentive to invent something that he could SELL without everyone on the planet copying his hard work and competing on his idea. Patents put the process out in the public so that it's easy to see when someone's infringing. 17 years for software patents is FAR too long, IMO, but that's an entirely different story. IMO software patents shoudln't be for more than ~24 months since the industry moves so blazingly fast. Regards, Andrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 02:58:47PM -0500, Steven Critchfield said: On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 14:45, Kevin Walsh wrote: Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So while I think it is important, I also can't seem to draw a reasonable line. 24 months in most software isn't enough time from day 0 to make any reward for the work, at least not monetarily. What software project out there do you know had a major roll out sufficiently under 24 months from beginning of programming to have paid the programming staff off after say 1 year past the initial 24 months? Software patents encourage monopoly rather than freedom. Idiots write a line of code and then feel that they've invented something. Temporary monopoly. Of course with the current time limits, it might as well be permanent since the techniques will be mostly useless by the time they are free. And don't forget that with patents, it actually encourages splintering of technologies and hinders compatability. It happens all around us - GSM vs CDMA, GIF/PNG/JPEG, MPeg/OGG/WMA, etc. With software patents, the only benefit is to the patent holder. Users just get screwed. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
I think you patent haters are looking at the negative aspect only. Remember, that competition drives innovation. If everyone used the same product there would be no incentive to develop anything new or along the same lines, where's reward to innovate if there is no incentive, why do it? Incentive being the $$ for your work. This thread could go further into music, art, publications, pharmaceuticals, etc. I don't believe in monopolies, but it would lead to an intellectual monopoly thus a stagnant never changing technology. I know the concept will be hard to understand for some. Don't flame, just understand the other side. Joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Walt Reed Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 02:58:47PM -0500, Steven Critchfield said: On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 14:45, Kevin Walsh wrote: Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So while I think it is important, I also can't seem to draw a reasonable line. 24 months in most software isn't enough time from day 0 to make any reward for the work, at least not monetarily. What software project out there do you know had a major roll out sufficiently under 24 months from beginning of programming to have paid the programming staff off after say 1 year past the initial 24 months? Software patents encourage monopoly rather than freedom. Idiots write a line of code and then feel that they've invented something. Temporary monopoly. Of course with the current time limits, it might as well be permanent since the techniques will be mostly useless by the time they are free. And don't forget that with patents, it actually encourages splintering of technologies and hinders compatability. It happens all around us - GSM vs CDMA, GIF/PNG/JPEG, MPeg/OGG/WMA, etc. With software patents, the only benefit is to the patent holder. Users just get screwed. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
Steven Critchfield wrote: On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 12:07, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: 17 years for software patents is FAR too long, IMO, but that's an entirely different story. IMO software patents shoudln't be for more than ~24 months since the industry moves so blazingly fast. I'm of mixed feelings here. I don't like software patents at all, but without them, some of the voice compression that is out there would possibly not have been developed. What would have been the incentive for the telecoms to allow the public in on some of the voice compressions with out getting paid for the work. So while I think it is important, I also can't seem to draw a reasonable line. 24 months in most software isn't enough time from day 0 to make any reward for the work, at least not monetarily. What software project out there do you know had a major roll out sufficiently under 24 months from beginning of programming to have paid the programming staff off after say 1 year past the initial 24 months? As someone who has working in speech coding I'd say this is complete nonsense. The mass of patents on speech coding was a land grab, and nothing more. Much of the really clever stuff in speech coding is unencumbered, and always was. In general it is a mass of dumb stuff that you unfortunately need to use that has been patented. Those patents are not the result of deep research. They are just road blocks stuck in people's way. There was so much to gain the early digital cellular days by being at the leading edge, that any of the major wireless companies would have been just as dedicated to succeeding without patents. If you look at the people claiming a piece of the IP pie for, say, half rate GSM you will see almost every well known wireless company, and a few more. All the real work for that codec was done by Motorola, who developed it, and owes almost nothing to all those hangers on. It does own a lot to basic CELP work done at ATT in the early 80's, but they never patented that. Regards, Steve ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
Chinese DVD player makers can ship a player for $25. Of that, they pay up to $5 in IP royalties to foreign companies. The development of their own EVD standard was specifically to sidestep this burden. Patents do cause harmful splintering. We need stuff that interworks, far more than we need the absolute best. GSM was good enough, and available, and took the world by storm. Apart from some band issues (mostly in the US), you can receive a GSM call almost anywhere on the planet. People want to pick up a disc for any old movie they find, and be able to play it. Innovation is good, but partisan splintering is definitely bad. Regards, Steve Joseph Finley wrote: I think you patent haters are looking at the negative aspect only. Remember, that competition drives innovation. If everyone used the same product there would be no incentive to develop anything new or along the same lines, where's reward to innovate if there is no incentive, why do it? Incentive being the $$ for your work. This thread could go further into music, art, publications, pharmaceuticals, etc. I don't believe in monopolies, but it would lead to an intellectual monopoly thus a stagnant never changing technology. I know the concept will be hard to understand for some. Don't flame, just understand the other side. Joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Walt Reed Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 02:58:47PM -0500, Steven Critchfield said: On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 14:45, Kevin Walsh wrote: Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So while I think it is important, I also can't seem to draw a reasonable line. 24 months in most software isn't enough time from day 0 to make any reward for the work, at least not monetarily. What software project out there do you know had a major roll out sufficiently under 24 months from beginning of programming to have paid the programming staff off after say 1 year past the initial 24 months? Software patents encourage monopoly rather than freedom. Idiots write a line of code and then feel that they've invented something. Temporary monopoly. Of course with the current time limits, it might as well be permanent since the techniques will be mostly useless by the time they are free. And don't forget that with patents, it actually encourages splintering of technologies and hinders compatability. It happens all around us - GSM vs CDMA, GIF/PNG/JPEG, MPeg/OGG/WMA, etc. With software patents, the only benefit is to the patent holder. Users just get screwed. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
Patents are a trade. The holder of the IP opens it up for public scrutiny and in return for exclusive control. Otherwise, companies would (and often do) keep the IP a trade secret. Is that not exactly what I said? AK He was given those patents as in incentive to invent something that he AK could SELL without everyone on the planet copying his hard work and AK competing on his idea. Patents put the process out in the public so that AK it's easy to see when someone's infringing. Hmm I think that's more or less exactly what I said, isn't it? True you said it clearer but I don't think I'm off enough for a BZZT. :-) -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
Joe, In this case the patent is on a set on mathamatical algorithms... There is no competition possible. All and any implementations of that algorithm are subject to the patent. This sort of patent is sort of like Newton patenting gravity or a patent on 1+1=2. The technique is more or less a law of nature. Bruce Joseph Finley wrote: I think you patent haters are looking at the negative aspect only. Remember, that competition drives innovation. If everyone used the same product there would be no incentive to develop anything new or along the same lines, where's reward to innovate if there is no incentive, why do it? Incentive being the $$ for your work. This thread could go further into music, art, publications, pharmaceuticals, etc. I don't believe in monopolies, but it would lead to an intellectual monopoly thus a stagnant never changing technology. I know the concept will be hard to understand for some. Don't flame, just understand the other side. Joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Walt Reed Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 02:58:47PM -0500, Steven Critchfield said: On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 14:45, Kevin Walsh wrote: Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So while I think it is important, I also can't seem to draw a reasonable line. 24 months in most software isn't enough time from day 0 to make any reward for the work, at least not monetarily. What software project out there do you know had a major roll out sufficiently under 24 months from beginning of programming to have paid the programming staff off after say 1 year past the initial 24 months? Software patents encourage monopoly rather than freedom. Idiots write a line of code and then feel that they've invented something. Temporary monopoly. Of course with the current time limits, it might as well be permanent since the techniques will be mostly useless by the time they are free. And don't forget that with patents, it actually encourages splintering of technologies and hinders compatability. It happens all around us - GSM vs CDMA, GIF/PNG/JPEG, MPeg/OGG/WMA, etc. With software patents, the only benefit is to the patent holder. Users just get screwed. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
I have a few SIP phones, Cisco 7960s, and was looking into implementing some compression, ala G.729. I'm looking into purchasing a g729 licenses just to get an idea of performance and voice quality, over lans, wireless and single channel isdn. Does anyone have positive/negative experience w/ getting licenses/support from Digium? Hows the sound quality compared w/ g.711? Is 729 better on slow connections? Jitter more/less of a problem then w/ g.711? Was implementation a pain? I've seen the bandwidth comparisons @ http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Bandwidth+consumption Things look good... if g.729 turns out to be all it perports itself to be then I feel we'd have a real winner. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] g.729 - licenses and opinions
I have a few SIP phones, Cisco 7960s, and was looking into implementing some compression, ala G.729. I'm looking into purchasing a g729 licenses just to get an idea of performance and voice quality, over lans, wireless and single channel isdn. Does anyone have positive/negative experience w/ getting licenses/support from Digium? Hows the sound quality compared w/ g.711? Is 729 better on slow connections? Jitter more/less of a problem then w/ g.711? Was implementation a pain? I've seen the bandwidth comparisons @ http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Bandwidth+consumption Things look good... if g.729 turns out to be all it perports itself to be then I feel we'd have a real winner. We've got about five licenses and a remote 7960's v6.3 running over dsl working just fine. The average user cannot tell the difference between 711 and 729. Installation was easy and straight forward, although you'll find comments in the archives that 729 installation requires a non-scsi drive on the * box. In some cases, you might require two licenses even though you might have only a single 729 phone. Think about VM, etc. Error on the side of too many. Can't comment on support; never needed any. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
