Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
I think there are quite a few aspects to the issue. I agree I've used the X101p cards which really are a Windmodem with a resistor removed and I had nothing but echo problems but then again I could have tried harder. 1) It was an early digium product. I think the Sangoma cards and the newer Digium cards are better designed. Hardware echo cancelation does not hurt, especially if you have a history of echo problems. 2) It's a modem, probably the people who designed the card and also the chip did not expect such scrutiny to be placed on its voice abilities they probably figured primary use would be for data or fax and maybe some voicemail use. 3) The process of converting the signal to digital brings out qualities that you might not normally notice physical wiring issues, reversed tip and ring pairs etc. Before giving up I would use certified Cat 5 or at least Cat 3 cabling, make sure all connectors and junctions are at minimum Cat 3, none of the pairs are reversed at any point. And heck just for troubleshooting remove any unneeded devices and wiring, i.e. everything else, including DSL modems and filters (does not hurt to use better quality ones). Even then there are thousands of feet of wiring beyond control, but that last few hundered tend to be the messiest. With that said many people will use these and not encounter issues. And then the majority that do encounter issues will be with echo. Many times this can be resolved by correcting any major wiring issues and tweaking the software echo cancellation. On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:15 AM, Marco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan Lord wrote: If you only have one analogue line why not just get a simple x100p card? When you use OSLEC with them they work great here in the UK. I bought my card from a USA based eBay seller. Total cost for card and shipping was about £17.00 Respectfully, I don't agree. I've purchased an original clone :-P of the X100P card, on the long period they almost always have some drawbacks... Faxing have been troubling for me. Don't know if it was for the line or else, but with a Digium card I had no problem at all. No sponsoring in here, ok, but certified hardware works better, therefore it's a better investment, I think. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
A couple of years ago I started my Asterisk carrier with selling x100p cards and I think I sold around 100 of them in total to people who could actually contact me and new who I was. Yes, it is a poor man solution but at least it is a solution. And for the poor man it is the only thing available. The serious cards are not an option because they simply don't have the money to buy Digium, Sangoma or other professional stuff. I would never advice to use it in production situations but for testing and trying or when you simply don't have the money and want to become an Asterisk expert starting with an old PC and a X100P card it is good that these card is around. With some trying with the gains and the settings an x100p card can work pretty well. I have never got a card send back to me because the buyer was dissatisfied with the sound quality. I had a couple of dead on deliveries that where solved by sending an other card. A couple of times I had to assist with the settings to get it right. People are not stupid, they understand that a card priced EUR 20,- can't offer the same quaility as a card that cost EUR 100,- or even more. The same counts for the hfc isdn2 card. It certainly isn't perfect but for around ER 15,- you can't expect perfection. But it works, you can connect your isdn2 cable ad have inbound and outbound calls. I used the card on my own home asterisk for a long time. You can even connect 2 asterisk servers when setting the cards in different modes. For practicing and trying that is perfect because lots of people can not effort to spend EUR 1.500,- for two E1 cards and do the same trying with an ISDN30 connection between two boxes. I'm not advertising the use of this cards in production but we all should be glad that this cards are around and people who want to learn how to use and configure Asterisk can start with an old pc and a x100p card or an hfc isdn2 card. Starting with not the best hardware available is better then not starting because you have the impression that that is only possible after spending serious money on equipment. Erik de Wild Tripple-o Your Asterisk migration partner the Netherlands ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Thursday 08 May 2008 00:52:35 Steve Totaro wrote: I can certainly post more dirt from Mark's previous right hand man if you wish to continue this argument. I'd enjoy the chance to debunk the myths that you've heard. So keep it coming. Why would Mark build a PBX from scratch for his start-up when a Toshiba, 3Com, or NEC could be had for a few hundred dollars (not to mention Mark's close ties with Adtran including funding. Things just don't add up, let's use our brains and not by the zeitgeist put out by Digium. I presume you're talking about key systems, which, while they are certainly cheaper than Asterisk even now, they lack customization. -- Tilghman ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
Tilghman Lesher wrote: On Thursday 08 May 2008 00:52:35 Steve Totaro wrote: I can certainly post more dirt from Mark's previous right hand man if you wish to continue this argument. I'd enjoy the chance to debunk the myths that you've heard. So keep it coming. Why would Mark build a PBX from scratch for his start-up when a Toshiba, 3Com, or NEC could be had for a few hundred dollars (not to mention Mark's close ties with Adtran including funding. Things just don't add up, let's use our brains and not by the zeitgeist put out by Digium. I presume you're talking about key systems, which, while they are certainly cheaper than Asterisk even now, they lack customization. Although this thread is interesting, the arguments probably should be taken off list. There clearly is no right or wrong here. Opinions and different views on modern business practices that in another time would certainly be viewed as unethical, but that isn't taught anymore, is it? The incorrect line drawn by one of the posters between Key and PBX clearly demonstrates the lack of a full understanding of the real world of Telephony, as does the design, at least in the beginning, of Asterisk, and the misuse of some telephony terms that long predate Asterisk, VOIP, and micro computers in general. Even now there are struggles to correct some of the basic flaws that prevent Asterisk from being as useful as many inexpensive business telephone systems. The basic PC hardware platform as well leaves much to be desired in reliability. John Novack -- Dog is my co-pilot ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Thursday 08 May 2008 11:03:34 John Novack wrote: Tilghman Lesher wrote: On Thursday 08 May 2008 00:52:35 Steve Totaro wrote: I can certainly post more dirt from Mark's previous right hand man if you wish to continue this argument. I'd enjoy the chance to debunk the myths that you've heard. So keep it coming. Why would Mark build a PBX from scratch for his start-up when a Toshiba, 3Com, or NEC could be had for a few hundred dollars (not to mention Mark's close ties with Adtran including funding. Things just don't add up, let's use our brains and not by the zeitgeist put out by Digium. I presume you're talking about key systems, which, while they are certainly cheaper than Asterisk even now, they lack customization. Although this thread is interesting, the arguments probably should be taken off list. I disagree. If there are myths being spread, we should address them full-on and dispel those that are untrue. The problem is that so many have been spread for so long, that people have begun to believe that they are true, regardless of the facts. -- Tilghman ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
Tilghman Lesher wrote: On Thursday 08 May 2008 11:03:34 John Novack wrote: Tilghman Lesher wrote: On Thursday 08 May 2008 00:52:35 Steve Totaro wrote: I can certainly post more dirt from Mark's previous right hand man if you wish to continue this argument. I'd enjoy the chance to debunk the myths that you've heard. So keep it coming. Why would Mark build a PBX from scratch for his start-up when a Toshiba, 3Com, or NEC could be had for a few hundred dollars (not to mention Mark's close ties with Adtran including funding. Things just don't add up, let's use our brains and not by the zeitgeist put out by Digium. I presume you're talking about key systems, which, while they are certainly cheaper than Asterisk even now, they lack customization. Although this thread is interesting, the arguments probably should be taken off list. I disagree. If there are myths being spread, we should address them full-on and dispel those that are untrue. The problem is that so many have been So do I ! I want to see what these stories are ;) spread for so long, that people have begun to believe that they are true, regardless of the facts. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
Questions: [1] Can I use oslec for echo cancellation? I'll have beefy hardware. Is echo cancellation necessary? Yes you can use oslec provided that either your distribution has a zaptel package with the oslec patch (or you build the zaptel drivers + oslec yourself) Well without echo cancelation you will probably have a number of calls that have either very bad sound quality or are simply annoying With your set i.e 3-4 lines processing requirments are minimal so you should not worry about that.We have been able to run oslec for 4 lines on a 266Mhz (no its not Ghz) powerpc embedded board with very good results Stelios S. Koroneos Digital OPSiS - Embedded Intelligence http://www.digital-opsis.com http://www.digital-opsis.com/ _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Repo Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:11 AM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware Hello, Please forgive me for i'm not an asterisk user yet. I've done as much research as I can .. and have the following questions. I'm setting up a new office and a home office and i'm shopping for hardware. Office: 2 analog lines Hardware: TDM412B (2 FXO, 1FXO) Link: http://www.voipsupply.com/index.php?cPath=99_555_556 Cost: $303 Home: 1 analog line Hardware: TDM421B (2 FXS, 1 FXO) Link: http://www.voipsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=3980 Cost: $300 [2] Can I get PCI express x1 cards for the same price? I'm on budget, Any other cards (sangoma? rhino?) that might work well? I'm sure these questions have been asked before.. :-) Steve ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
Steve Repo wrote: Hello, Please forgive me for i'm not an asterisk user yet. I've done as much research as I can .. and have the following questions. I'm setting up a new office and a home office and i'm shopping for hardware. Office: 2 analog lines Hardware: TDM412B (2 FXO, 1FXO) Link: http://www.voipsupply.com/index.php?cPath=99_555_556 Cost: $303 Home: 1 analog line Hardware: TDM421B (2 FXS, 1 FXO) Link: http://www.voipsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=3980 Cost: $300 If you only have one analogue line why not just get a simple x100p card? When you use OSLEC with them they work great here in the UK. I bought my card from a USA based eBay seller. Total cost for card and shipping was about £17.00 Questions: [1] Can I use oslec for echo cancellation? I'll have beefy hardware. Is echo cancellation necessary? I would think you will always want to have EC. Whether you will need oslec or not is another matter. If the standard MG2 sounds crap, try oslec. MG2 couldn't deal with echo on my x100p. Oslec is pretty much perfect. I don't think you will need beefy hardware either. I have our Asterisk server running on a Via CN700 (1Ghz) along with lots of other applications. No troubles. Of course it is a home box and not heavily used but hey - the mobo only draws about 7W! If you want to know more about it see my sig below. There's a series of articles about setting up and building a home server with Asterisk and other bits and bobs. HTH Alan -- The way out is open! http://www.theopensourcerer.com ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
Alan Lord wrote: If you only have one analogue line why not just get a simple x100p card? When you use OSLEC with them they work great here in the UK. I bought my card from a USA based eBay seller. Total cost for card and shipping was about £17.00 Respectfully, I don't agree. I've purchased an original clone :-P of the X100P card, on the long period they almost always have some drawbacks... Faxing have been troubling for me. Don't know if it was for the line or else, but with a Digium card I had no problem at all. No sponsoring in here, ok, but certified hardware works better, therefore it's a better investment, I think. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
Marco wrote: Respectfully, I don't agree. I've purchased an original clone :-P of the X100P card, on the long period they almost always have some drawbacks... Faxing have been troubling for me. Don't know if it was for the line or else, but with a Digium card I had no problem at all. No sponsoring in here, ok, but certified hardware works better, therefore it's a better investment, I think. I'm just offering my experiences. I have had no problems with my x100p card since using the oslec canceller. There's a big difference between $300 and $34 for one analogue line on a home phone. Of course YMMV ;-) Alan -- The way out is open! http://www.theopensourcerer.com ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Wed, 07 May 2008 09:58:04 +0100, Alan Lord wrote: Marco wrote: Respectfully, I don't agree. I've purchased an original clone :-P of the X100P card, on the long period they almost always have some drawbacks... Faxing have been troubling for me. Don't know if it was for the line or else, but with a Digium card I had no problem at all. No sponsoring in here, ok, but certified hardware works better, therefore it's a better investment, I think. I'm just offering my experiences. I have had no problems with my x100p card since using the oslec canceller. There's a big difference between $300 and $34 for one analogue line on a home phone. Of course YMMV ;-) If you use traditional PC hardware (ie with an available PCI slot) then you can use the TDM 4xx card from Digium. I had a TDM400p and it worked well enough, much better than the X101p. If you choose embedded hardware (Soekris, Alix, WRAP, etc) then you may not be able to add a PCI card. The external interffaces are necessary, like the Linksys SPA-2000/3000 series. These also work fairly well. They have the advantage of not requiring Zaptel. Nothing about your installation suggests that a traditional PC would be beneficial. In fact, Beefy would just me more power, heat noise. Someone recently told me that the Alix 3C systems are $150 complete from www.mini-box.com. That would seem like a bargain, and ideal for your circumstance. Michael -- Michael Graves mgravesatmstvp.com http://blog.mgraves.org o713-861-4005 c713-201-1262 sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] skype mjgraves [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Michael Graves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 07 May 2008 09:58:04 +0100, Alan Lord wrote: Marco wrote: Respectfully, I don't agree. I've purchased an original clone :-P of the X100P card, on the long period they almost always have some drawbacks... Faxing have been troubling for me. Don't know if it was for the line or else, but with a Digium card I had no problem at all. No sponsoring in here, ok, but certified hardware works better, therefore it's a better investment, I think. I'm just offering my experiences. I have had no problems with my x100p card since using the oslec canceller. There's a big difference between $300 and $34 for one analogue line on a home phone. Of course YMMV ;-) If you use traditional PC hardware (ie with an available PCI slot) then you can use the TDM 4xx card from Digium. I had a TDM400p and it worked well enough, much better than the X101p. If you choose embedded hardware (Soekris, Alix, WRAP, etc) then you may not be able to add a PCI card. The external interffaces are necessary, like the Linksys SPA-2000/3000 series. These also work fairly well. They have the advantage of not requiring Zaptel. Nothing about your installation suggests that a traditional PC would be beneficial. In fact, Beefy would just me more power, heat noise. Someone recently told me that the Alix 3C systems are $150 complete from www.mini-box.com. That would seem like a bargain, and ideal for your circumstance. Michael -- Michael Graves mgravesatmstvp.com http://blog.mgraves.org o713-861-4005 c713-201-1262 sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] skype mjgraves [EMAIL PROTECTED] If your budget is tight and you want a decent card (not an X100P) with room to upgrade, then check out http://www.openvox.com.cn/products.php?genre_id=25 or http://store.getvoicecards.com/index.php?cPath=66 they are the reference design that Digium used on previous cards and are very well made. You can even use their FXO/FXS modules in a real Digium card and visa versa. The page I linked to includes the Octasic SoftEcho software. Word has it that the guy responsible for these cards was a former Digium employee back when Digium was only a few people (Mark Spencer's right hand man) and he also developed the Tormenta III card for Govarion. I have seen documents and some other things that back up this information.. Thanks, Steve Totaro ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Steve Totaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 8:17 AM, Michael Graves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 07 May 2008 09:58:04 +0100, Alan Lord wrote: Marco wrote: Respectfully, I don't agree. I've purchased an original clone :-P of the X100P card, on the long period they almost always have some drawbacks... Faxing have been troubling for me. Don't know if it was for the line or else, but with a Digium card I had no problem at all. No sponsoring in here, ok, but certified hardware works better, therefore it's a better investment, I think. I'm just offering my experiences. I have had no problems with my x100p card since using the oslec canceller. There's a big difference between $300 and $34 for one analogue line on a home phone. Of course YMMV ;-) If you use traditional PC hardware (ie with an available PCI slot) then you can use the TDM 4xx card from Digium. I had a TDM400p and it worked well enough, much better than the X101p. If you choose embedded hardware (Soekris, Alix, WRAP, etc) then you may not be able to add a PCI card. The external interffaces are necessary, like the Linksys SPA-2000/3000 series. These also work fairly well. They have the advantage of not requiring Zaptel. Nothing about your installation suggests that a traditional PC would be beneficial. In fact, Beefy would just me more power, heat noise. Someone recently told me that the Alix 3C systems are $150 complete from www.mini-box.com. That would seem like a bargain, and ideal for your circumstance. Michael -- Michael Graves mgravesatmstvp.com http://blog.mgraves.org o713-861-4005 c713-201-1262 sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] skype mjgraves [EMAIL PROTECTED] If your budget is tight and you want a decent card (not an X100P) with room to upgrade, then check out http://www.openvox.com.cn/products.php?genre_id=25 or http://store.getvoicecards.com/index.php?cPath=66 they are the reference design that Digium used on previous cards and are very well made. You can even use their FXO/FXS modules in a real Digium card and visa versa. The page I linked to includes the Octasic SoftEcho software. Word has it that the guy responsible for these cards was a former Digium employee back when Digium was only a few people (Mark Spencer's right hand man) and he also developed the Tormenta III card for Govarion. I have seen documents and some other things that back up this information.. Thanks, Steve Totaro Martin, I hope you don't mind me blowing your cover slightly. I did not state your name but I have been recommending your products whenever possible. The reason for posting your background info is to establish credibility, but I should have probably asked you first. Let me know if you want me to stop supplying personal details. I hope hardware sales are going well. Take it easy, Steve ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Wednesday 07 May 2008 08:00:17 Steve Totaro wrote: If your budget is tight and you want a decent card (not an X100P) with room to upgrade, then check out http://www.openvox.com.cn/products.php?genre_id=25 or http://store.getvoicecards.com/index.php?cPath=66 they are the reference design that Digium used on previous cards and are very well made. You can even use their FXO/FXS modules in a real Digium card and visa versa. I believe you're misinformed. This is not a reference design; it is a clone card, plain and simple. The only reference design (see http://www.tjnet.com/solutions/pci_phone.htm) was for a single port card with no daughterboard slots. Word has it that the guy responsible for these cards was a former Digium employee back when Digium was only a few people (Mark Spencer's right hand man) and he also developed the Tormenta III card for Govarion. I have seen documents and some other things that back up this information.. That is a sore subject, as well. As best as I can tell, Martin left the company with an agreement letting him pursue a business selling the X100P (because Digium planned to stop selling that board, and there wouldn't be a conflict), and because of a miswording of the agreement, it let him clone Digium boards that he had worked on (even though they're not exclusively his designs). Note that purchasing Digium boards helps pay for full time Asterisk development, and purchasing clone boards does not pay for even a part-time Asterisk developer. -- Tilghman ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 9:40 AM, Tilghman Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 07 May 2008 08:00:17 Steve Totaro wrote: If your budget is tight and you want a decent card (not an X100P) with room to upgrade, then check out http://www.openvox.com.cn/products.php?genre_id=25 or http://store.getvoicecards.com/index.php?cPath=66 they are the reference design that Digium used on previous cards and are very well made. You can even use their FXO/FXS modules in a real Digium card and visa versa. I believe you're misinformed. This is not a reference design; it is a clone card, plain and simple. The only reference design (see http://www.tjnet.com/solutions/pci_phone.htm) was for a single port card with no daughterboard slots. Word has it that the guy responsible for these cards was a former Digium employee back when Digium was only a few people (Mark Spencer's right hand man) and he also developed the Tormenta III card for Govarion. I have seen documents and some other things that back up this information.. That is a sore subject, as well. As best as I can tell, Martin left the company with an agreement letting him pursue a business selling the X100P (because Digium planned to stop selling that board, and there wouldn't be a conflict), and because of a miswording of the agreement, it let him clone Digium boards that he had worked on (even though they're not exclusively his designs). Note that purchasing Digium boards helps pay for full time Asterisk development, and purchasing clone boards does not pay for even a part-time Asterisk developer. -- Tilghman Those agreements are not enforceable beyond a certain amount of time. I think five years has been struck down by many courts due to the nature of IT. I think one or two years is generally upheld in states that favor such agreements. Overly broad non-competes are thrown out of court left and right, even if one part of the agreement is questionable, other courts will line item sections of agreements that are not generally enforceable, while keeping the rest of the agreement intact. Miswording in a legal document is bad. I guess Digium learned a lesson on that one. As I said before, some judges will throw out entire agreements based on a single mistake. Besides, I have a feeling that he was not treated well by Digium or Govarion (this is just my opinion and have nothing to back it up) except some very interesting stories. The bottom line is, the government does not really want to inhibit your ability to earn a living but they weigh that with the harm it may cause to the company the individual has made an agreement with. I am surprised there was some sort of agreement about the X100P since it was not a direct Digium product but a (possibly slightly) modified modem with Opensource drivers. Anyways, getting back to you point about support Digium, others are suggesting purchasing the X100P (modems) with special opensource drivers. I am all for supporting Digium but more interested in support Asterisk by giving it a good reputation and exposing it to large companies including CSC, The US State Dept, and Federal Data Corp (among others I cannot speak of) Bottom line, the guy has a tight budget. I have a feeling an X100P will leave a bad taste in his mouth. I am just pointing him in a direction that will help him. My allegiances are not to Digium (although I support them myself) but to the community and especially the newbies. This is the Asterisk Users list, not the Support Digium list. I thought vendor neutrality was totally acceptable here. Thanks, Steve Totaro ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 9:40 AM, Tilghman Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note that purchasing Digium boards helps pay for full time Asterisk development, and purchasing clone boards does not pay for even a part-time Asterisk developer. -- Tilghman BTW, I am all for having payed Asterisk Developers but I think it is needless to say that Asterisk would immediately see many more free Devs or be forked (as it has for other reasons such as the dual licensing) if Digium could not continue to provide in-house development. I know that sounds harsh but it is the truth. Thanks, Steve Totaro ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 10:22 AM, Steve Totaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 9:40 AM, Tilghman Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note that purchasing Digium boards helps pay for full time Asterisk development, and purchasing clone boards does not pay for even a part-time Asterisk developer. -- Tilghman BTW, I am all for having payed Asterisk Developers but I think it is needless to say that Asterisk would immediately see many more free Devs or be forked (as it has for other reasons such as the dual licensing) if Digium could not continue to provide in-house development. I know that sounds harsh but it is the truth. Thanks, Steve Totaro Interesting results in Google for TDM400P TigerJet reference design. http://www.google.com/search?hl=ensafe=offclient=firefox-arls=org.mozilla:en-US:officialhs=h9Ppwst=1sa=Xoi=spellresnum=1ct=resultcd=1q=Tigerjet+Reference+design+tdm400pspell=1 Other keywords turn up much more similar results that seem to confirm that the reference design from TigerJet was used. As with anything on the internet, take it with a grain of salt but it does have enough hits to raise questions. Thanks, Steve Totaro ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Wednesday 07 May 2008 09:40:21 Steve Totaro wrote: Interesting results in Google for TDM400P TigerJet reference design. http://www.google.com/search?hl=ensafe=offclient=firefox-arls=org.mozill a:en-US:officialhs=h9Ppwst=1sa=Xoi=spellresnum=1ct=resultcd=1q=Tiger jet+Reference+design+tdm400pspell=1 Other keywords turn up much more similar results that seem to confirm that the reference design from TigerJet was used. As with anything on the internet, take it with a grain of salt but it does have enough hits to raise questions. No, it doesn't. It simply is an oft-repeated falsehood. GO to the TigerJet page, LOOK at the reference designs. They do not hide a single reference design from the web, and NONE of them are the TDM400P design. If it was a reference design, please show the world the reference design from TigerJet. There simply isn't one, and repeating it does not make it so. -- Tilghman ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Tilghman Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 07 May 2008 09:40:21 Steve Totaro wrote: Interesting results in Google for TDM400P TigerJet reference design. http://www.google.com/search?hl=ensafe=offclient=firefox-arls=org.mozill a:en-US:officialhs=h9Ppwst=1sa=Xoi=spellresnum=1ct=resultcd=1q=Tiger jet+Reference+design+tdm400pspell=1 Other keywords turn up much more similar results that seem to confirm that the reference design from TigerJet was used. As with anything on the internet, take it with a grain of salt but it does have enough hits to raise questions. No, it doesn't. It simply is an oft-repeated falsehood. GO to the TigerJet page, LOOK at the reference designs. They do not hide a single reference design from the web, and NONE of them are the TDM400P design. If it was a reference design, please show the world the reference design from TigerJet. There simply isn't one, and repeating it does not make it so. -- Tilghman I guess you have reading comprehension issues. I said take it with a grain of salt as well as seems to confirm. Both are very benign and offer two sides of the story. I think your personal feelings are overpowering your ability to comprehend and reason. Anyways, maybe the entire reference design is not there but just connect the 2-3 reference designs and you're there. Tigerjet provides the reference design of using the PCI chipset + they provide the reference design of the X100P (pretty much) and going from X100P to PCI card with one FXS module is not that hard (just different Silabs chip) and then multiplying it only needs a small CPLD chip. Not much brain power to come up with that. BTW, rumor has it that Mark Spencer did not have contracts for employees with the exception of salary, back in the old days. Maybe you can ask him or check Martin's employee file. Thanks, Steve Totaro ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Wednesday 07 May 2008 21:56:54 Steve Totaro wrote: On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Tilghman Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 07 May 2008 09:40:21 Steve Totaro wrote: Interesting results in Google for TDM400P TigerJet reference design. http://www.google.com/search?hl=ensafe=offclient=firefox-arls=org.m ozill a:en-US:officialhs=h9Ppwst=1sa=Xoi=spellresnum=1ct=resultcd=1q =Tiger jet+Reference+design+tdm400pspell=1 Other keywords turn up much more similar results that seem to confirm that the reference design from TigerJet was used. As with anything on the internet, take it with a grain of salt but it does have enough hits to raise questions. No, it doesn't. It simply is an oft-repeated falsehood. GO to the TigerJet page, LOOK at the reference designs. They do not hide a single reference design from the web, and NONE of them are the TDM400P design. If it was a reference design, please show the world the reference design from TigerJet. There simply isn't one, and repeating it does not make it so. I guess you have reading comprehension issues. Ad hominem. I said take it with a grain of salt as well as seems to confirm. Both are very benign and offer two sides of the story. Two sides, as in, the truth, and false rumors. I think your personal feelings are overpowering your ability to comprehend and reason. Pot. Kettle. Black. Anyways, maybe the entire reference design is not there but just connect the 2-3 reference designs and you're there. I think you underestimate the field of hardware engineering. Tigerjet provides the reference design of using the PCI chipset Correct. + they provide the reference design of the X100P (pretty much) No, they do not. They do not provide a single implementation of an FXO interface on their site, only FXS. and going from X100P to PCI card with one FXS module is not that hard (just different Silabs chip) and then multiplying it only needs a small CPLD chip. They are completely different designs. Not much brain power to come up with that. I'm not sure how many boards you've designed in your life, but given my awareness of the design process of both modules of the TDM400P, I know that building one does NOT mean that engineering the other is easy. Some hardware engineers could probably confirm this, if they are so inclined. BTW, rumor has it that Mark Spencer did not have contracts for employees with the exception of salary, back in the old days. Maybe you can ask him or check Martin's employee file. I might indeed be able to ask Mark, if he has the time, but I certainly cannot delve into a past employee's file, as there are important privacy issues to be considered. I would be very much surprised if HR let me look, even if I considered asking. -- Tilghman ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
If your budget is tight and you want a decent card (not an X100P) with room to upgrade, then check out http://www.openvox.com.cn/products.php?genre_id=25 or http://store.getvoicecards.com/index.php?cPath=66 they are the reference design that Digium used on previous cards and are very well made. You can even use their FXO/FXS modules in a real Digium card and visa versa. Thank you all so much for the information. As much as I like to purchase Digium hardware, I'm on a budget, I like the OpenVox PCIe A400E22 (2 FXO/2FXS) card which has enough room for expansion. http://www.openvox.com.cn/products_detail.php?genre_id=38id=109 I wil be using a Intel C2D E7200 with Micro-ATX M/B in a showbox case. The M/B has 1 PCIe 16x, 1 PCIe 1x and 2 PCI slots. The PCI slots will be used by TV tuners for MythTV. I could not find any US distributors for Openvox cards and I don't want to pay international shipping. Any ideas? Thanks, Steve ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Steve Repo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If your budget is tight and you want a decent card (not an X100P) with room to upgrade, then check out http://www.openvox.com.cn/products.php?genre_id=25 or http://store.getvoicecards.com/index.php?cPath=66 they are the reference design that Digium used on previous cards and are very well made. You can even use their FXO/FXS modules in a real Digium card and visa versa. Thank you all so much for the information. As much as I like to purchase Digium hardware, I'm on a budget, I like the OpenVox PCIe A400E22 (2 FXO/2FXS) card which has enough room for expansion. http://www.openvox.com.cn/products_detail.php?genre_id=38id=109 I wil be using a Intel C2D E7200 with Micro-ATX M/B in a showbox case. The M/B has 1 PCIe 16x, 1 PCIe 1x and 2 PCI slots. The PCI slots will be used by TV tuners for MythTV. I could not find any US distributors for Openvox cards and I don't want to pay international shipping. Any ideas? Thanks, Steve http://store.getvoicecards.com/contact_us.php is the same card and is available in the US. Thanks, Steve Totaro ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 12:27 AM, Tilghman Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 07 May 2008 21:56:54 Steve Totaro wrote: On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 11:38 AM, Tilghman Lesher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 07 May 2008 09:40:21 Steve Totaro wrote: Interesting results in Google for TDM400P TigerJet reference design. http://www.google.com/search?hl=ensafe=offclient=firefox-arls=org.m ozill a:en-US:officialhs=h9Ppwst=1sa=Xoi=spellresnum=1ct=resultcd=1q =Tiger jet+Reference+design+tdm400pspell=1 Other keywords turn up much more similar results that seem to confirm that the reference design from TigerJet was used. As with anything on the internet, take it with a grain of salt but it does have enough hits to raise questions. No, it doesn't. It simply is an oft-repeated falsehood. GO to the TigerJet page, LOOK at the reference designs. They do not hide a single reference design from the web, and NONE of them are the TDM400P design. If it was a reference design, please show the world the reference design from TigerJet. There simply isn't one, and repeating it does not make it so. I guess you have reading comprehension issues. Ad hominem. I said take it with a grain of salt as well as seems to confirm. Both are very benign and offer two sides of the story. Two sides, as in, the truth, and false rumors. I think your personal feelings are overpowering your ability to comprehend and reason. Pot. Kettle. Black. Anyways, maybe the entire reference design is not there but just connect the 2-3 reference designs and you're there. I think you underestimate the field of hardware engineering. Tigerjet provides the reference design of using the PCI chipset Correct. + they provide the reference design of the X100P (pretty much) No, they do not. They do not provide a single implementation of an FXO interface on their site, only FXS. and going from X100P to PCI card with one FXS module is not that hard (just different Silabs chip) and then multiplying it only needs a small CPLD chip. They are completely different designs. Not much brain power to come up with that. I'm not sure how many boards you've designed in your life, but given my awareness of the design process of both modules of the TDM400P, I know that building one does NOT mean that engineering the other is easy. Some hardware engineers could probably confirm this, if they are so inclined. BTW, rumor has it that Mark Spencer did not have contracts for employees with the exception of salary, back in the old days. Maybe you can ask him or check Martin's employee file. I might indeed be able to ask Mark, if he has the time, but I certainly cannot delve into a past employee's file, as there are important privacy issues to be considered. I would be very much surprised if HR let me look, even if I considered asking. -- Tilghman So the question begs, how come there was never any effort to patent the card? I do not design cards but I do know many people who do. The TDM400P was a piece of junk and Digium very often blamed the motherboard for the issues. This was until Sangoma came on the scene and raised the bar. With ~15 employees no less. People jumped ship from Digium in droves (similar to lemmings) to go to Sangoma since the IRQ issues were null. Competition is the only reason we have cards that are up to par. I think you are new to Digium but I have quite a bit of back ground info dating back to Linux Support Services and the fact that the .3 version of Asterisk only supported Adtran (go figure...) I can certainly post more dirt from Mark's previous right hand man if you wish to continue this argument. The truth will set you free. Don't buy Digium propaganda, look at the facts. Why would Mark build a PBX from scratch for his start-up when a Toshiba, 3Com, or NEC could be had for a few hundred dollars (not to mention Mark's close ties with Adtran including funding. Things just don't add up, let's use our brains and not by the zeitgeist put out by Digium. Thanks, Steve Totaro ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[asterisk-users] Newbie alert: VoIP hardware
Hello, Please forgive me for i'm not an asterisk user yet. I've done as much research as I can .. and have the following questions. I'm setting up a new office and a home office and i'm shopping for hardware. Office: 2 analog lines Hardware: TDM412B (2 FXO, 1FXO) Link: http://www.voipsupply.com/index.php?cPath=99_555_556 Cost: $303 Home: 1 analog line Hardware: TDM421B (2 FXS, 1 FXO) Link: http://www.voipsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=3980 Cost: $300 Questions: [1] Can I use oslec for echo cancellation? I'll have beefy hardware. Is echo cancellation necessary? [2] Can I get PCI express x1 cards for the same price? I'm on budget, Any other cards (sangoma? rhino?) that might work well? I'm sure these questions have been asked before.. :-) Steve ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
