Re: [asterisk-users] SPA-962 Asterisk
On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 04:43:07PM -0700, Wilton Helm wrote: The linksys phones annoy me because they cannot implement southern hemisphere DST properly. I was shocked the first time I had to write firmware for an international project. Not only is there the southern hemisphere issue of opposite seasons, but just about anyone in the world with a legislative body has to prove their independence from everyone else by defining the dates a bit differently (not to mention time zones that differ by 15 or 30 minutes). Then the US came along and changed their rules after a million products already had them hard coded in silicon! It's a mess. I just wish we'd all forget about it entirely. Its a way to force people who don't like to get up early to do so anyway. A number of studies have been done on the increase in accidents and reduced worker productivity for a week or two after a change. The recent US change was supposed to save energy, but I suspect if one did a study, they would find that businesses just extended their hours to accommodate a diversity of people, thus increasing their energy consumption! UNIX system supported different timezones with an arbitrary definition ages ago. The timezone only tells the system with what offset to show the time when asked for local time. Sadly some operating systems have this strange concept that changing a time zone means changing the system clock itself. This makes it a huge change indeed. -- Tzafrir Cohen icq#16849755 jabber:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +972-50-7952406 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xorcom.com iax:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/tzafrir ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] SPA-962 Asterisk
The timezone only tells the system with what offset to show the time when asked for local time. Sadly some operating systems have this strange concept that changing a time zone means changing the system clock itself. This makes it a huge change indeed. Agreed. The firmware I design works the same way--everything internal is in UTC. Any application that must deal with multiple time zones by virtue of market distribution or because it shares time over a network, etc. should use UTC internally and only translate to local time. Using a scheme such as *nix does of an integer rather than broken down field makes the translation trivial. The hard part is deciding how to determine the translation, whether to use hard coded rules, intelligent observation or manual setup. Wilton ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] SPA-962 Asterisk
On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 12:43:47PM -0700, Wilton Helm wrote: The timezone only tells the system with what offset to show the time when asked for local time. Sadly some operating systems have this strange concept that changing a time zone means changing the system clock itself. This makes it a huge change indeed. Agreed. The firmware I design works the same way--everything internal is in UTC. Any application that must deal with multiple time zones by virtue of market distribution or because it shares time over a network, etc. should use UTC internally and only translate to local time. Using a scheme such as *nix does of an integer rather than broken down field makes the translation trivial. The hard part is deciding how to determine the translation, whether to use hard coded rules, intelligent observation or manual setup. The size of the whole glibc time zones distribution, if you ignore duplicates, is: $ du -sh /usr/share/zoneinfo \ --exclude=/usr/share/zoneinfo/posix \ --exclude=/usr/share/zoneinfo/right 2.3M/usr/share/zoneinfo This includes 577 files. I'm sure you can trim that down. The point is that you then ask the user for the time zone, and don't need the DST checkbox. The device will go start using DST automatically. $ zdump -v /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York | grep 2008 /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York Sun Mar 9 06:59:59 2008 UTC = Sun Mar 9 01:59:59 2008 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000 /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York Sun Mar 9 07:00:00 2008 UTC = Sun Mar 9 03:00:00 2008 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400 /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York Sun Nov 2 05:59:59 2008 UTC = Sun Nov 2 01:59:59 2008 EDT isdst=1 gmtoff=-14400 /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/New_York Sun Nov 2 06:00:00 2008 UTC = Sun Nov 2 01:00:00 2008 EST isdst=0 gmtoff=-18000 Thus the time zone is not GMT+3 or GMT-5. This the current time zone. But it forces the user to actively change the timezone whenever the DSP come into effect. The time zone is USA/Eastern, Peru, or whatever. And what if those definitions keep changing? e.g. if you live in Brazil? I figure some sort of manual override, such as the explicit GMT[+-]NN zones. And this interface would not be complete without a clock showing the local time according to those settings, I guess. -- Tzafrir Cohen icq#16849755 jabber:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +972-50-7952406 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xorcom.com iax:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/tzafrir ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] SPA-962 Asterisk
The linksys phones annoy me because they cannot implement southern hemisphere DST properly. Grr. (yes, you can do it with a hack - but why can't the phones just work?) PaulH Steve Anness wrote: Good Day, I have been tasked with fixing the time on our asterisk server. I am having a hard time finding documentation to tell my what asterisk uses to get its time information to push to phones (or a better question, where does the SPA-962 get its time information)? Basically, I can go under the settings of the phone and change the offset to set the correct hour, but it is still about 4 minutes fast. So the SPA-962 has an offset option, but to offset it from what? The time on the asterisk server? That isn’t right because my asterisk server has the correct time. To offset from GMT? No because I am +6 from GMT not +2. I can physically set the time, but that is a bitch when you have many phones, shouldn’t the phone be syncing with something? Any thoughts? I am not finding anything conclusive. Steve Anness ICT Support Analyst Humanitarian International Services Group ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] SPA-962 Asterisk
The linksys phones annoy me because they cannot implement southern hemisphere DST properly. I was shocked the first time I had to write firmware for an international project. Not only is there the southern hemisphere issue of opposite seasons, but just about anyone in the world with a legislative body has to prove their independence from everyone else by defining the dates a bit differently (not to mention time zones that differ by 15 or 30 minutes). Then the US came along and changed their rules after a million products already had them hard coded in silicon! It's a mess. I just wish we'd all forget about it entirely. Its a way to force people who don't like to get up early to do so anyway. A number of studies have been done on the increase in accidents and reduced worker productivity for a week or two after a change. The recent US change was supposed to save energy, but I suspect if one did a study, they would find that businesses just extended their hours to accommodate a diversity of people, thus increasing their energy consumption! Wilton ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[asterisk-users] SPA-962 Asterisk
Good Day, I have been tasked with fixing the time on our asterisk server. I am having a hard time finding documentation to tell my what asterisk uses to get its time information to push to phones (or a better question, where does the SPA-962 get its time information)? Basically, I can go under the settings of the phone and change the offset to set the correct hour, but it is still about 4 minutes fast. So the SPA-962 has an offset option, but to offset it from what? The time on the asterisk server? That isn¹t right because my asterisk server has the correct time. To offset from GMT? No because I am +6 from GMT not +2. I can physically set the time, but that is a bitch when you have many phones, shouldn¹t the phone be syncing with something? Any thoughts? I am not finding anything conclusive. Steve Anness ICT Support Analyst Humanitarian International Services Group ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] SPA-962 Asterisk
I've never used the Sipura phones but they probably sync with an NTP server. My guess is that the NTP server is on the asterisk box (you can probably verify this by checking the config of the phones and finding the option for NTP server). It is possible that the NTP service isn't running on the asterisk box (after a reboot or a crash) or that the asterisk box's time is incorrect. Do you know what distribution you are running on the server? You can type 'uname -a' at a command prompt and get an idea of the distro. Also try '/etc/init.d/ntpd' start or 'service ntpd start' - these may be able to restart the NTP daemon for you and begin syncing the phones properly again. Dave From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Anness Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:08 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: [asterisk-users] SPA-962 Asterisk Good Day, I have been tasked with fixing the time on our asterisk server. I am having a hard time finding documentation to tell my what asterisk uses to get its time information to push to phones (or a better question, where does the SPA-962 get its time information)? Basically, I can go under the settings of the phone and change the offset to set the correct hour, but it is still about 4 minutes fast. So the SPA-962 has an offset option, but to offset it from what? The time on the asterisk server? That isn't right because my asterisk server has the correct time. To offset from GMT? No because I am +6 from GMT not +2. I can physically set the time, but that is a bitch when you have many phones, shouldn't the phone be syncing with something? Any thoughts? I am not finding anything conclusive. Steve Anness ICT Support Analyst Humanitarian International Services Group ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] SPA-962 Asterisk
On Nov 4, 2008, at 6:08 AM, Steve Anness wrote: Good Day, I have been tasked with fixing the time on our asterisk server. I am having a hard time finding documentation to tell my what asterisk uses to get its time information to push to phones (or a better question, where does the SPA-962 get its time information)? Basically, I can go under the settings of the phone and change the offset to set the correct hour, but it is still about 4 minutes fast. So the SPA-962 has an offset option, but to offset it from what? The time on the asterisk server? That isn’t right because my asterisk server has the correct time. To offset from GMT? No because I am +6 from GMT not +2. I can physically set the time, but that is a bitch when you have many phones, shouldn’t the phone be syncing with something? Any thoughts? I am not finding anything conclusive. Steve Anness ICT Support Analyst Humanitarian International Services Group Your SPA devices almost certainly get their timing data from an NTP server. Some devices will find their NTP servers with DHCP options requests, and I think there is even a Zeroconf method for determining local NTP servers, but I doubt anyone uses that method. One of the more novel methods I used a while ago (when I was doing design for ATAs) was to use the Date: header in the SIP INVITE as the time set. The device would know it's GMT offset, and then calculate what time it was. It was an ugly hack, and that ATA was the reason that the Date: header is in INVITEs in Asterisk. :-) I was kind of ashamed of it a while ago (NTP is much more correct solution) but the more pragmatic I get in my old age, the more elegant it seems. No NTP stack to worry about, no additional firewall holes, etc. etc. and phones really don't need to be super-accurate so NTP is typically overkill anyway. ATAs especially, since they don't even display the date - they just send it along with the Caller ID data when a new call event is generated. JT --- John Todd [EMAIL PROTECTED]+1-256-428-6083 Asterisk Open Source Community Director ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
