Re: [asterisk-users] Seemingly easy question: NPA/NXX
- Ira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:29 AM 9/22/2008, you wrote: ... except in some countries, the phone numbers vary in length in the same city. Say in Hamburg, Germany, your number can be as short as 5 digits or as long as 10. You really have no way of knowing. The unanswered part of that, is this? Can 5 digit number, say, 12345, be the beginning part of a 10 digit number, say, 1234567890? And the answer is: do not confuse E.164 addresses with dialling patterns, grasshopper. Cheers, -- jr '1-888-MITSU2008' a -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274 Those who cast the vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything. -- (Josef Stalin) ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Seemingly easy question: NPA/NXX
- Karl Fife [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Theory 1 Is it all done with timeouts, but they're CONDITIONAL timeouts. i.e. give a LONG timeout if the number: -did not start with a 1 and is still shorter than 7 digits, -started with a 1 and is still shorter than 11 digits -started with a 011 and is shorter than the theoretical international minimum lenght Theory 2 As you know, a few years ago the 2nd digit of the NPA was always 1 or 0. Therefore the switch could easily determine(without the leading 1) if your first three digits were an NPA or just an NXX (exchange). They were nationally unambiguous. Now that's no longer true. STILL, it could be possible to consider all known valid NPA's and exchanges so they can determine via context what you're trying to do, and thereby optimize the dialing experience? Can anyone speak to this? I would very much appreciate any knowledgable input. Well, my input is knowledgeable, though not authoritative. Yes, each NANP switch actually does have a routing table loaded locally (they call them translations) that tells it where to route calls for each and every valid NPA-NXX in the NANP, and this could be used to authenticate the first 3/6 digits of 7/10/11 digit dialled numbers for intra-NANP calls, and in fact, I would bet that you're correct that that's how they accomplish it. I have never actually seen live switch code on this, but I think I could locate some people who have -- but yes, you'll play hell duplicating it exactly on something with as small a brain as an ATA. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274 Those who cast the vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything. -- (Josef Stalin) ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Seemingly easy question: NPA/NXX
International numbers are variable length, so the timeout applies for those. North American National numbers are a fixed length. Generally, the phone company will collect 7, 10 or 11 digits for North American numbers. For example, I live in Minneapolis, MN. My number is 612-xxx-. I have free calling to 612, 651, 952, 763 and a few numbers in 507 and 320. If I dial 1, the phone company will collect 10 more digits. (The call may or may not go through if I dial 1+ a 10-digit local number depending on the carrier. MN regulations prohibit charging for local calls dialed as toll) If I dial 612, 651, 952, 763, 507 or 320, the phone company will wait for the remaining 7 digts as there are no numbers within area code 612 that start with those digits. Anything else will only be collected as 7 digts and assumed to be 612. Because of that, I can't dial a california number (for example), without dialing it as 1+. I wouldn't call it fancy, the phone company just knows what is a valid local number for you. Making a digit map in an ATA isn't that hard, you just need to think about what you want it to do. If you want to permit 10 digit dialing without the 1+ for long distance *and* support 7 digit local dialing, you'll need a timeout. There are also the N11 numbers, which of course should stop collecting after the second 1. --Shane Quoting Karl Fife [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Question: How does the local Telco know you're done dialing a seven digit number? Easy you may say: If your dial string begins with 1, the parser expects 11 digits total, otherwise seven, 011 is international. The reason suspect it's more complex is that: 1) International numbers can vary widely in length and 2) Our local analog Telco will route a ten digit NANP numbers with no leading 1 and with no terminator--seemingly instantly Obviously this could be done with 'timeouts'--implicitly 'sending' after a delay. But it works so well I suspect there's more logic in there. For example I have dozens of ATA's provisioned with timeouts, and I find it difficult or impossible to replicate the Telco dialing experience (Either the delay is too long, or you have frequent 'reorder' tones because it 'sent' before you were finished). Therefore I assume that there is something more 'fancy' going on. Can someone validate, debunk or clarify this? Theory 1 Is it all done with timeouts, but they're CONDITIONAL timeouts. i.e. give a LONG timeout if the number: -did not start with a 1 and is still shorter than 7 digits, -started with a 1 and is still shorter than 11 digits -started with a 011 and is shorter than the theoretical international minimum lenght Theory 2 As you know, a few years ago the 2nd digit of the NPA was always 1 or 0. Therefore the switch could easily determine(without the leading 1) if your first three digits were an NPA or just an NXX (exchange). They were nationally unambiguous. Now that's no longer true. STILL, it could be possibleto consider all known valid NPA's and exchanges so they can determine via context what you're trying to do, and thereby optimize the dialing experience? Can anyone speak to this? I would very much appreciate any knowledgable input. -Karl ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Seemingly easy question: NPA/NXX
I don't see where it is difficult to figure out. First of all, system keeps looking up on the table as user dial each number. When number starts with 1, expect USA. When number doesn't start with either 1 nor 0, expect USA too. When number starts with 011, and as country code and city code is identified, expect as many numbers as determined by country+city code (once you know country and city code, you know how many local digits to expect) CS Question: How does the local Telco know you're done dialing a seven digit number? Easy you may say: If your dial string begins with 1, the parser expects 11 digits total, otherwise seven, 011 is international. The reason suspect it's more complex is that: 1) International numbers can vary widely in length and 2) Our local analog Telco will route a ten digit NANP numbers with no leading 1 and with no terminator--seemingly instantly Obviously this could be done with 'timeouts'--implicitly 'sending' after a delay. But it works so well I suspect there's more logic in there. For example I have dozens of ATA's provisioned with timeouts, and I find it difficult or impossible to replicate the Telco dialing experience (Either the delay is too long, or you have frequent 'reorder' tones because it 'sent' before you were finished). Therefore I assume that there is something more 'fancy' going on. Can someone validate, debunk or clarify this? Theory 1 Is it all done with timeouts, but they're CONDITIONAL timeouts. i.e. give a LONG timeout if the number: -did not start with a 1 and is still shorter than 7 digits, -started with a 1 and is still shorter than 11 digits -started with a 011 and is shorter than the theoretical international minimum lenght Theory 2 As you know, a few years ago the 2nd digit of the NPA was always 1 or 0. Therefore the switch could easily determine(without the leading 1) if your first three digits were an NPA or just an NXX (exchange). They were nationally unambiguous. Now that's no longer true. STILL, it could be possibleto consider all known valid NPA's and exchanges so they can determine via context what you're trying to do, and thereby optimize the dialing experience? Can anyone speak to this? I would very much appreciate any knowledgable input. -Karl ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Seemingly easy question: NPA/NXX
When number starts with 011, and as country code and city code is identified, expect as many numbers as determined by country+city code (once you know country and city code, you know how many local digits to expect) ... except in some countries, the phone numbers vary in length in the same city. Say in Hamburg, Germany, your number can be as short as 5 digits or as long as 10. You really have no way of knowing. Luki ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Seemingly easy question: NPA/NXX
At 09:29 AM 9/22/2008, you wrote: ... except in some countries, the phone numbers vary in length in the same city. Say in Hamburg, Germany, your number can be as short as 5 digits or as long as 10. You really have no way of knowing. The unanswered part of that, is this? Can 5 digit number, say, 12345, be the beginning part of a 10 digit number, say, 1234567890? If so than you must use time outs, if not than a dial plan can handle it. Ira ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Seemingly easy question: NPA/NXX
Ira schrieb: At 09:29 AM 9/22/2008, you wrote: ... except in some countries, the phone numbers vary in length in the same city. Say in Hamburg, Germany, your number can be as short as 5 digits or as long as 10. You really have no way of knowing. The unanswered part of that, is this? Can 5 digit number, say, 12345, be the beginning part of a 10 digit number, say, 1234567890? If so than you must use time outs, if not than a dial plan can handle it. I think so. http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/enid/7d0a4195f3524c5b04b7870e1f60635d,0/Ortsnetze/Struktur_und_Ausgestaltung_des_Nummernbereichs_fuer_Ortsnetzrufnummern_1gq.html http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/enid/7d0a4195f3524c5b04b7870e1f60635d,0/Ortsnetze/Verzeichnisse_1gg.html But obviously this has nothing to do with the NANPA etc. Philipp Kempgen -- http://www.das-asterisk-buch.de - http://www.the-asterisk-book.com Amooma GmbH - Bachstr. 126 - 56566 Neuwied - http://www.amooma.de Geschäftsführer: Stefan Wintermeyer, Handelsregister: Neuwied B14998 -- ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Seemingly easy question: NPA/NXX
Philipp Kempgen schrieb: Ira schrieb: At 09:29 AM 9/22/2008, you wrote: ... except in some countries, the phone numbers vary in length in the same city. Say in Hamburg, Germany, your number can be as short as 5 digits or as long as 10. You really have no way of knowing. The unanswered part of that, is this? Can 5 digit number, say, 12345, be the beginning part of a 10 digit number, say, 1234567890? If so than you must use time outs, if not than a dial plan can handle it. I think so. http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/enid/7d0a4195f3524c5b04b7870e1f60635d,0/Ortsnetze/Struktur_und_Ausgestaltung_des_Nummernbereichs_fuer_Ortsnetzrufnummern_1gq.html http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/enid/7d0a4195f3524c5b04b7870e1f60635d,0/Ortsnetze/Verzeichnisse_1gg.html Strange session IDs. http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/enid/Ortsnetze/Struktur_und_Ausgestaltung_des_Nummernbereichs_fuer_Ortsnetzrufnummern_1gq.html http://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/enid/Ortsnetze/Verzeichnisse_1gg.html Philipp Kempgen -- http://www.das-asterisk-buch.de - http://www.the-asterisk-book.com Amooma GmbH - Bachstr. 126 - 56566 Neuwied - http://www.amooma.de Geschäftsführer: Stefan Wintermeyer, Handelsregister: Neuwied B14998 -- ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[asterisk-users] Seemingly easy question: NPA/NXX
Question: How does the local Telco know you're done dialing a seven digit number? Easy you may say: If your dial string begins with 1, the parser expects 11 digits total, otherwise seven, 011 is international. The reason suspect it's more complex is that: 1) International numbers can vary widely in length and 2) Our local analog Telco will route a ten digit NANP numbers with no leading 1 and with no terminator--seemingly instantly Obviously this could be done with 'timeouts'--implicitly 'sending' after a delay. But it works so well I suspect there's more logic in there. For example I have dozens of ATA's provisioned with timeouts, and I find it difficult or impossible to replicate the Telco dialing experience (Either the delay is too long, or you have frequent 'reorder' tones because it 'sent' before you were finished). Therefore I assume that there is something more 'fancy' going on. Can someone validate, debunk or clarify this? Theory 1 Is it all done with timeouts, but they're CONDITIONAL timeouts. i.e. give a LONG timeout if the number: -did not start with a 1 and is still shorter than 7 digits, -started with a 1 and is still shorter than 11 digits -started with a 011 and is shorter than the theoretical international minimum lenght Theory 2 As you know, a few years ago the 2nd digit of the NPA was always 1 or 0. Therefore the switch could easily determine(without the leading 1) if your first three digits were an NPA or just an NXX (exchange). They were nationally unambiguous. Now that's no longer true. STILL, it could be possibleto consider all known valid NPA's and exchanges so they can determine via context what you're trying to do, and thereby optimize the dialing experience? Can anyone speak to this? I would very much appreciate any knowledgable input. -Karl ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
