RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911 Q
Currently we are working with Telco Providers to provide 911 and e911 with all the bells and whistles, including CNMAN features. This will enable you to deliver 911 calls to PSAP with out having to tell them your location. Get ready to manage DB ... check out REDSKY software -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joel Newkirk Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 2:11 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 Q Thank you - while not directly an answer to my question, it directly addresses the root of my question, pointing me where I'll need to go to dig deeper. It also tells me what we didn't want to hear, that there's a very good possibility that we simply won't be able to ensure that the 911 call center can tell which unit a call comes from without verbal specification from the caller. j On Sun, 2005-10-02 at 08:13 -0600, Rich Adamson wrote: Asterisk is more then capable of sending the appropriate callerid info to any remote site including 911 centers. However, there is a telco between asterisk and the 911 center that may not have realistic policies/systems to accept and forward that callerid. So, your objective becomes one of what the telco will allow you to do (and their support of your objective). As one example only, the telco might have a switch that does not have PRI capabilities (I know of many of these), but they provide ANI info to the 911 centers since that _might_ be the only data they can provide. If that were the case in your environment, it doesn't make any difference what you do with asterisk, it won't be supported. I know from practical experience that a telco's switch (in most cases) will accept calleridnum via a PRI, but on most central office switches its an option that needs to be turned on. (Local telco policy _might_ say they will never do that.) Once that option is turned on, you can send almost anything to them in the form of calleridnum. The callerid name is a different story. The central office switch that _terminates_ any call (including 911 calls) will have a mechanism to do a database lookup/dip, and if that database has not been populated with an appropriate callerid name, will not provide callerid names to the 911 center (or anyone else). That essentially says you can program asterisk to send anything that you want from a callerid name perspective and it will be ignored in the US. In very general terms, only telco personnal have the access to update the callerid database, and usually that is limited to the CO prefixes they support. Also keep in mind that not all 911 centers are the same from a technical perspective. They certainly accept callerid numbers, but they may have their own local database for names (etc), or, they may also do a database lookup from some distant database. If you think about those customers that subscribe to callerid blocking, cell phones gps, and the requirements of 911 centers, its not hard to visualize several different 911 implementation approaches. Talk to a knowledgable telco person (might be somewhat difficult to find the appropriate person), and talk to the 911 center manager to better understand what options you might have available. I'd start with the 911 manager as he will know a telco person that understands the technical requirements. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 Q
Thank you - while not directly an answer to my question, it directly addresses the root of my question, pointing me where I'll need to go to dig deeper. It also tells me what we didn't want to hear, that there's a very good possibility that we simply won't be able to ensure that the 911 call center can tell which unit a call comes from without verbal specification from the caller. j On Sun, 2005-10-02 at 08:13 -0600, Rich Adamson wrote: Asterisk is more then capable of sending the appropriate callerid info to any remote site including 911 centers. However, there is a telco between asterisk and the 911 center that may not have realistic policies/systems to accept and forward that callerid. So, your objective becomes one of what the telco will allow you to do (and their support of your objective). As one example only, the telco might have a switch that does not have PRI capabilities (I know of many of these), but they provide ANI info to the 911 centers since that _might_ be the only data they can provide. If that were the case in your environment, it doesn't make any difference what you do with asterisk, it won't be supported. I know from practical experience that a telco's switch (in most cases) will accept calleridnum via a PRI, but on most central office switches its an option that needs to be turned on. (Local telco policy _might_ say they will never do that.) Once that option is turned on, you can send almost anything to them in the form of calleridnum. The callerid name is a different story. The central office switch that _terminates_ any call (including 911 calls) will have a mechanism to do a database lookup/dip, and if that database has not been populated with an appropriate callerid name, will not provide callerid names to the 911 center (or anyone else). That essentially says you can program asterisk to send anything that you want from a callerid name perspective and it will be ignored in the US. In very general terms, only telco personnal have the access to update the callerid database, and usually that is limited to the CO prefixes they support. Also keep in mind that not all 911 centers are the same from a technical perspective. They certainly accept callerid numbers, but they may have their own local database for names (etc), or, they may also do a database lookup from some distant database. If you think about those customers that subscribe to callerid blocking, cell phones gps, and the requirements of 911 centers, its not hard to visualize several different 911 implementation approaches. Talk to a knowledgable telco person (might be somewhat difficult to find the appropriate person), and talk to the 911 center manager to better understand what options you might have available. I'd start with the 911 manager as he will know a telco person that understands the technical requirements. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911 Q
Joel Newkirk wrote on Friday, 30 September 2005 7:20 AM: Looking into setting up a couple asterisk servers at a country club, with VOIP phones in each of 100 short-term residential rental units. Approx 100 extensions, approx 24 outside lines. Since everything is geographically at one location, reaching 911 correctly shouldn't present a problem. However, the club wishes to ensure that 911 authorities are able to identify the precise rental unit placing the call. Mr. Newkirk, This and similar situations present a very serious issue for emergency responders. When you dial 911, your call is routed to the appropriate PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point) based on your ANI (Automatic Number Identification) or ELIN (Emergency Line Identification Number -- usually just another term for ANI). As your call arrives, the PSAP does a query of their ALI (Automatic Location Information) database to get your location information. Please note that the PSAP does NOT use Caller ID for this purpose. End users are not able to block their ANI (under normal circumstances), even though they may block their Caller ID. Either the ILEC or a company like Intrado will maintain the ALI database in your area. If you are getting your PRI and DIDs from your local ILEC, they would be responsible for getting the correct information entered into the ALI database. Typically, the information entered is only the physical address where the primary service is installed. In most circumstances, this information is enough to get police/fire/EMS to you in an emergency. However, I suspect the entire country club shares a single street address. If so, when someone dials 911, the PSAP will get only the main address of the country club. In this and similar situations, such as calling from within a multi-floor office building, a campus environment, etc., the main street address is simply not enough information to get emergency responders to you in a timely manner. Consider this not-so-unusual hypothetical scenario. A guest of the Pennsauken Country Club is having a heart attack in his bungalow. He dials 911. The dispatcher's screen at the PSAP shows the main information for the club (856) 662-4961 - 3800 Haddonfield Rd - Pennsauken Country Club - Pennsauken, NJ. The guest explains that he is experiencing severe chest pain, then either passes out before he can tell the dispatcher his exact location at the country club, or is confused or unaware of his exact location. The dispatcher would roll fire, EMS, and/or police to the main address. However, when they arrive, the emergency responders would have to knock on all 100+ doors to even attempt to determine who was having the emergency. Now you probably have a dead guest. Not good for business. First off, you should be using a PRI to connect your Asterisk server to the PSTN. You should also have a block of DIDs, with each guest room assigned its own, unique DID. This way you can differentiate among the individual rooms when people are making outbound calls, and guests may receive incoming calls in their room without going through an operator. Asterisk is capable of setting ANI in addition to Caller ID, on a per-call basis. This would ensure that the correct data is sent to the phone company when someone dials 911. As to getting the data to the PSAP to indicate where within the country club each DID is assigned, you have a couple of solutions. You can implement PS/ALI (Private Switch/Automatic Location Identification), or you can work with your telecom provider to have them enter the extended data into the ALI database for each DID individually. PS/ALI is the best solution, from a technical standpoint -- but it is usually quite expensive. PS/ALI allows you to provide the E-911 system with current, specific tenant location information to expedite emergency response times to the site of the emergency -- not just to the building or general site location. So when your guest having a heard attack in room 119 dials 911, the PSAP gets something more along the line of (856) 324-4119 - 3800 Haddonfield Rd - Building 5 Room 119 - Pennsauken Country Club - Pennsauken, NJ. PS/ALI is geared toward larger telecom users such as colleges, office buildings, large office campuses, etc., with a somewhat mobile population. It is utilized best when most of your extensions or DIDs are assigned to a person, as opposed to a location. This way, when the person moves from one office to another, your staff can push the change to the ALI database within minutes of the move, rather than phoning in a service order to the LEC, and waiting days for the change to be pushed to ALI. In your situation, I am assuming an extension or DID would most likely stay at a fixed location for quite some time (e.g. extension 4119 is always going to be guest room 119). So PS/ALI may be overkill in your situation. In that case, I would go the second route mentioned above. Work with your
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 Q
Think you might have jumped to a conclusion that might not be valid. If the telco can handle a PRI and will accept callerid from you, and each unit has a valid telephone number, then the telco can populate the callerid database with names. Those are the only two items the telco can provide in real time. The 911 center manager can better tell you exactly how they populate their database with street addresses and unit numbers. That process is likely an external non-automated process, or, the local telco is giving them the info via a electronic/paper copy of their service order. But, he's the only one that can tell you exactly how that works for his center. So, don't give. Go to the 911 manager and do some research; then go to his contact at the telco to get the real facts. Thank you - while not directly an answer to my question, it directly addresses the root of my question, pointing me where I'll need to go to dig deeper. It also tells me what we didn't want to hear, that there's a very good possibility that we simply won't be able to ensure that the 911 call center can tell which unit a call comes from without verbal specification from the caller. j On Sun, 2005-10-02 at 08:13 -0600, Rich Adamson wrote: Asterisk is more then capable of sending the appropriate callerid info to any remote site including 911 centers. However, there is a telco between asterisk and the 911 center that may not have realistic policies/systems to accept and forward that callerid. So, your objective becomes one of what the telco will allow you to do (and their support of your objective). As one example only, the telco might have a switch that does not have PRI capabilities (I know of many of these), but they provide ANI info to the 911 centers since that _might_ be the only data they can provide. If that were the case in your environment, it doesn't make any difference what you do with asterisk, it won't be supported. I know from practical experience that a telco's switch (in most cases) will accept calleridnum via a PRI, but on most central office switches its an option that needs to be turned on. (Local telco policy _might_ say they will never do that.) Once that option is turned on, you can send almost anything to them in the form of calleridnum. The callerid name is a different story. The central office switch that _terminates_ any call (including 911 calls) will have a mechanism to do a database lookup/dip, and if that database has not been populated with an appropriate callerid name, will not provide callerid names to the 911 center (or anyone else). That essentially says you can program asterisk to send anything that you want from a callerid name perspective and it will be ignored in the US. In very general terms, only telco personnal have the access to update the callerid database, and usually that is limited to the CO prefixes they support. Also keep in mind that not all 911 centers are the same from a technical perspective. They certainly accept callerid numbers, but they may have their own local database for names (etc), or, they may also do a database lookup from some distant database. If you think about those customers that subscribe to callerid blocking, cell phones gps, and the requirements of 911 centers, its not hard to visualize several different 911 implementation approaches. Talk to a knowledgable telco person (might be somewhat difficult to find the appropriate person), and talk to the 911 center manager to better understand what options you might have available. I'd start with the 911 manager as he will know a telco person that understands the technical requirements. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ---End of Original Message- ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 Q
On Monday 03 October 2005 12:17, Rich Adamson wrote: Think you might have jumped to a conclusion that might not be valid. If the telco can handle a PRI and will accept callerid from you, and each unit has a valid telephone number, then the telco can populate the callerid database with names. Those are the only two items the telco can provide in real time. I have some information from the 911 service manager for Bell Canada in Eastern Ontario. Basically the Public Service Automatic Location Indentification database (PSALI) only has allocations for BTNs (Billing Telephone Numbers) -- there are no ALI entries for DIDs from Bell Canada at this time, and there is no plan to do this. Basically if you set your outgoing ANI to a DID the PSAP office will have no address information, and indeed the switch may end up overwriting your ANI with the BTN. Since DIDs do not have an address associated with them (makes sense, they are only inward-numbers by design), you can convert DIDs to LDNs (Local Directory Number, same thing but has a directory (address) associated with it) -- the unfortunate side-effect of that is that LDNs are all billed separately so you would receive a separate bill for every LDN on a PRI. There is a service (of course!) being offered where you can provide specifically-formatted records for the PSALI database. It's not cheap, it's a $2000 setup fee and (IIRC) $500/mo for up to 500 record changes, and a two-year contract minimum. (These figures might be off, it's from memory.) However if you subscribe to this service you can assign any municipal address to any number and it will make its way into the PSALI database, which is what all the primary PSAP offices use to get the address information before routing the call to the appropriate secondary PSAP office. At least with Bell Canada, this is the only way to get your user's address information into the database used by the primary PSAP offices. The alternative, of course, is to set up your own primary PSAP system and then you can use whatever database and organization system you want, and redirect calls to the appropriate secondary PSAP office yourself. -A. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 Q
I installed a Marquee sign (aka reader board), which was sent emergency information via an RS-232 serial port. It was pretty nifty, as it was during to 'everywhere must have caller ID' phase in the 90s. Most signs are cheap, and can just be placed in the clubhouse window. You could even have nice littlearrows pointing the direction of the 911 caller's dwelling... Chris Coulthurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Joel Newkirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 7:20 AM Subject: [Asterisk-Users] 911 Q OK, got a question on 911. Looking into setting up a couple asterisk servers at a country club, with VOIP phones in each of 100 short-term residential rental units. Approx 100 extensions, approx 24 outside lines. Since everything is geographically at one location, reaching 911 correctly shouldn't present a problem. However, the club wishes to ensure that 911 authorities are able to identify the precise rental unit placing the call. How can we achieve this, short of 'reciting' the unit number aloud at the beginning of the placed call? Thanks for any advice/tips. j ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 Q
I installed a Marquee sign (aka reader board), which was sent emergency information via an RS-232 serial port. It was pretty nifty, as it was during to 'everywhere must have caller ID' phase in the 90s. Most signs are cheap, and can just be placed in the clubhouse window. You could even have nice littlearrows pointing the direction of the 911 caller's dwelling... Chris Coulthurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - OK, got a question on 911. Looking into setting up a couple asterisk servers at a country club, with VOIP phones in each of 100 short-term residential rental units. Approx 100 extensions, approx 24 outside lines. Since everything is geographically at one location, reaching 911 correctly shouldn't present a problem. However, the club wishes to ensure that 911 authorities are able to identify the precise rental unit placing the call. How can we achieve this, short of 'reciting' the unit number aloud at the beginning of the placed call? Thanks for any advice/tips. Asterisk is more then capable of sending the appropriate callerid info to any remote site including 911 centers. However, there is a telco between asterisk and the 911 center that may not have realistic policies/systems to accept and forward that callerid. So, your objective becomes one of what the telco will allow you to do (and their support of your objective). As one example only, the telco might have a switch that does not have PRI capabilities (I know of many of these), but they provide ANI info to the 911 centers since that _might_ be the only data they can provide. If that were the case in your environment, it doesn't make any difference what you do with asterisk, it won't be supported. I know from practical experience that a telco's switch (in most cases) will accept calleridnum via a PRI, but on most central office switches its an option that needs to be turned on. (Local telco policy _might_ say they will never do that.) Once that option is turned on, you can send almost anything to them in the form of calleridnum. The callerid name is a different story. The central office switch that _terminates_ any call (including 911 calls) will have a mechanism to do a database lookup/dip, and if that database has not been populated with an appropriate callerid name, will not provide callerid names to the 911 center (or anyone else). That essentially says you can program asterisk to send anything that you want from a callerid name perspective and it will be ignored in the US. In very general terms, only telco personnal have the access to update the callerid database, and usually that is limited to the CO prefixes they support. Also keep in mind that not all 911 centers are the same from a technical perspective. They certainly accept callerid numbers, but they may have their own local database for names (etc), or, they may also do a database lookup from some distant database. If you think about those customers that subscribe to callerid blocking, cell phones gps, and the requirements of 911 centers, its not hard to visualize several different 911 implementation approaches. Talk to a knowledgable telco person (might be somewhat difficult to find the appropriate person), and talk to the 911 center manager to better understand what options you might have available. I'd start with the 911 manager as he will know a telco person that understands the technical requirements. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911 Q
With hotel systems When some places a 911 call it is printed on the printer in the Front Desk, Hwen help arrives they usually go to the Frount Dsek anyway. I would set up a System() that would not only printout he romm number on the Front Desk Printer but also drop a call file in to trigger a call to the Front Desk with a prerecorded message of wht extention just called 911. That way the Hotel can send someone to the room to act as first response and the Frount Desk can direct the 911 team to the correct location. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joel Newkirk Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 10:20 AM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: [Asterisk-Users] 911 Q OK, got a question on 911. Looking into setting up a couple asterisk servers at a country club, with VOIP phones in each of 100 short-term residential rental units. Approx 100 extensions, approx 24 outside lines. Since everything is geographically at one location, reaching 911 correctly shouldn't present a problem. However, the club wishes to ensure that 911 authorities are able to identify the precise rental unit placing the call. How can we achieve this, short of 'reciting' the unit number aloud at the beginning of the placed call? Thanks for any advice/tips. j ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 Q
On Fri, Sep 30, 2005 at 10:20:12AM -0400, Joel Newkirk wrote: How can we achieve this, short of 'reciting' the unit number aloud at the beginning of the placed call? Hmm, could you just put the full address (including unit no.) in the E911 database for the corresponding numbers assigned? You might have to work with your phone company/LEC on this, but I think it would be the most transparent solution. Ray ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 Q
On Fri, 2005-09-30 at 09:16 -0700, Ray Van Dolson wrote: On Fri, Sep 30, 2005 at 10:20:12AM -0400, Joel Newkirk wrote: How can we achieve this, short of 'reciting' the unit number aloud at the beginning of the placed call? Hmm, could you just put the full address (including unit no.) in the E911 database for the corresponding numbers assigned? We're only expecting about 1/4 as many outside lines as rental units, which I believe would make that impossible. These units are typically rented by golfers and hangers-on during various events. (think about the cloud that descends on a US Open golf tournament) It's not hotel-style (there's no 'front desk') nor long-term residences - it's a condominium complex on the course dedicated entirely to short-term rentals. The situation is that someone calling in will be prompted for a unit number, outbound calling 'appears' direct dialed. j You might have to work with your phone company/LEC on this, but I think it would be the most transparent solution. Ray ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
