Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
Darren Nickerson wrote: The last time I checked on a big FAX server, only a few percent of the calls used anything but basic 9600bps non-ECM operation. When I look in the shops, hardly any of the FAX machines - other than the low selling high end laser models - support anything fancy. If you are dealing purely with FAXes between big companies, most of the machines you encounter probably support the fancy features. In the general case, they don't. What can I say? That's not our reality. Every little HP OfficeJet el-cheapo multifunction inkjet device does ECM, MMR and V.34 (up to 33.6) speed faxing these days. That's reflected in a large number of greater than 14,400 speed connections (typically 28.8). They're not considered bells and whistles .. they're just standard. I spent half an hour looking around the web, and it seems we are both wrong. The truth lies somewhere between our statements. :-) The last info I got from a large FAX server is about a year old. It seems after several years of nothing much changing, FAX has suddenly taken a step up - kind of sad it should improve now it is obsolete :-) The low end fax machines from the biggest supplier of all - Sharp - are 9600 non-correcting machines. Some other makers - Canon, HP, etc - start at 14,400 now. The low end monochrome OfficeJets are only 14400, but do appear to have error correction (the web site info is not entirely clear about the error correction part). However, you don't need to go far up the range to get a 33.6k modem. The 33.6k feature has certainly spread considerably in the last year or two. Regards, Steve ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
You may want to take a look t.38, t.39 which are the fax/ip/smtp standards. If Asterisk could be made to do this, then it would join the mainstream and inter-op with cisco gw's and such handling this sort of thing automagically for the billions of voice/fax minutes served. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin P. Fleming Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 00:33 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email Steve Underwood wrote: If you want to FAX over IP you need to be *very* careful if you want it to be reliable. You cannot use anything other than A-law or u-law as the codec. However, even using those, any data slips will kill the FAX operation. If the two boxes are on the same LAN it tends to work OK. Yes, I would think that this sort of application would be either local LAN or _extremely_ low latency WAN connections only, and probably not use audio compression at all. If you can't handle a few 64kb/s streams of audio for your FAXing application, then you have other problems to worry about :-) I mean CPU loading. HylaFAX only does 1D coding (unless that changed very recently) and the ECM is brand new. The features you list may be a lot less well tested than you think. :-) Also, only a tiny fraction of FAX machines can even support ECM. As mentioned in the other replies, these are no longer true statements as of HylaFAX 4.2.0 (which is not yet released, but very close). And putting the virtual modem client and HylaFAX on a separate box from Asterisk should eliminate CPU consumption concerns, I'd think. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Scanned for viruses and dangerous content at http://www.oneunified.net and is believed to be clean. -- Scanned for viruses and dangerous content at http://www.oneunified.net and is believed to be clean. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
Maybe not. However, if the user is primarily interested in fax to email then Hylafax can do that very well. A PBX is not an essential part of a fax solution for many. Iain --On Tuesday, June 8, 2004 8:46 am +0800 Steve Underwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Iain, Your response seems to indicate that you don't know what HylaFAX and spandsp actually do :-) Regards, Steve Iain Stevenson wrote: ... might as well use hylafax. Iain --On Monday, June 7, 2004 2:15 pm +0100 Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all. I'm looking to set up a fax via email service so that users can email a specific mailbox and receive fax's to a specific mailbox. Can this be done? I've had a look an SpanDSP and I think that's what I want but I'm not sure. Cheers Matt ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
I'm more interested in email to fax in as much as a user could send a specifically formed email to a specific address and it be picked up and faxed out. Similarly; inbound faxes being transformed into an email. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Iain Stevenson Sent: 08 June 2004 09:10 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email Maybe not. However, if the user is primarily interested in fax to email then Hylafax can do that very well. A PBX is not an essential part of a fax solution for many. Iain --On Tuesday, June 8, 2004 8:46 am +0800 Steve Underwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Iain, Your response seems to indicate that you don't know what HylaFAX and spandsp actually do :-) Regards, Steve Iain Stevenson wrote: ... might as well use hylafax. Iain --On Monday, June 7, 2004 2:15 pm +0100 Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all. I'm looking to set up a fax via email service so that users can email a specific mailbox and receive fax's to a specific mailbox. Can this be done? I've had a look an SpanDSP and I think that's what I want but I'm not sure. Cheers Matt ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
.. Hylafax does that too. Iain --On Tuesday, June 8, 2004 9:15 am +0100 Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm more interested in email to fax in as much as a user could send a specifically formed email to a specific address and it be picked up and faxed out. Similarly; inbound faxes being transformed into an email. Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Iain Stevenson Sent: 08 June 2004 09:10 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email Maybe not. However, if the user is primarily interested in fax to email then Hylafax can do that very well. A PBX is not an essential part of a fax solution for many. Iain --On Tuesday, June 8, 2004 8:46 am +0800 Steve Underwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Iain, Your response seems to indicate that you don't know what HylaFAX and spandsp actually do :-) Regards, Steve Iain Stevenson wrote: ... might as well use hylafax. Iain --On Monday, June 7, 2004 2:15 pm +0100 Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all. I'm looking to set up a fax via email service so that users can email a specific mailbox and receive fax's to a specific mailbox. Can this be done? I've had a look an SpanDSP and I think that's what I want but I'm not sure. Cheers Matt ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
Kevin P. Fleming wrote: Steve Underwood wrote: spandsp doesn't try to reimplement all of HylaFAX. It reimplements only one piece - the T.4/T.30 code. I have a half implemented spandsp as class 1 fax modem which I put aside. People are using spandsp happily for things like fax to e-mail. Introducing HylaFAX would really slow things down. That said, I'd really like to complete the class 1 modem interface, and make HylaFAX an option for people. Well, I was thinking of HylaFAX running on another box, with some type of IAX2 virtual FAX modem client running on the same machine, using IAX2 to communicate to Asterisk. That would remove the CPU usage from the Asterisk box and put it where it belongs. If you want to FAX over IP you need to be *very* careful if you want it to be reliable. You cannot use anything other than A-law or u-law as the codec. However, even using those, any data slips will kill the FAX operation. If the two boxes are on the same LAN it tends to work OK. I'm curious how you think HylaFAX would really slow things down, if you mean something other that CPU usage? I'd see adding HylaFAX to the mix as adding well-tested and reliable ECM, MR, MMR and other protocol support on top of the virtual modem you've already implemented, as well as supporting alternative FAX origination methods (email, print, etc.). I mean CPU loading. HylaFAX only does 1D coding (unless that changed very recently) and the ECM is brand new. The features you list may be a lot less well tested than you think. :-) Also, only a tiny fraction of FAX machines can even support ECM. Regards, Steve ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
I mean CPU loading. HylaFAX only does 1D coding (unless that changed very recently) and the ECM is brand new. The features you list may be a lot less well tested than you think. :-) Also, only a tiny fraction of FAX machines can even support ECM. Steve, HylaFAX supports 1D MH, 2D MR, and 2D MMR. ECM is new in HylaFAX, but already seems more robust than the implementation one finds in most consumer-grade data+fax modems. As for the tiny fraction that support ECM... well if tiny fraction means damn near most of 'em, then I'd say you're about right. Heck, 30-40% of them even support V.34 these days (for which ECM and MMR are prerequisites). Our customer send and recieve hundreds of thousands of faxes daily, and the great majority of them are ECM error-corrected. I'll admit, these numbers are more representative of the US and Europe than other regions, but still, 'tiny fraction' is underselling it just a wee bit ;-) -Darren -- Darren Nickerson Senior Sales Support Engineer iFax Solutions, Inc. www.ifax.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1.215.438.4638 +1.215.243.8335 (fax) ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
Darren Nickerson wrote: Steve, HylaFAX supports 1D MH, 2D MR, and 2D MMR. The last time I looked (a few months ago) it supported those file formats, but only supported 1D transfers on the wire. ECM is new in HylaFAX, but already seems more robust than the implementation one finds in most consumer-grade data+fax modems. As for the tiny fraction that support ECM... well if tiny fraction means damn near most of 'em, then I'd say you're about right. Heck, 30-40% of them even support V.34 these days (for which ECM and MMR are prerequisites). Our customer send and recieve hundreds of thousands of faxes daily, and the great majority of them are ECM error-corrected. The last time I checked on a big FAX server, only a few percent of the calls used anything but basic 9600bps non-ECM operation. When I look in the shops, hardly any of the FAX machines - other than the low selling high end laser models - support anything fancy. If you are dealing purely with FAXes between big companies, most of the machines you encounter probably support the fancy features. In the general case, they don't. I'll admit, these numbers are more representative of the US and Europe than other regions, but still, 'tiny fraction' is underselling it just a wee bit ;-) Asia is generally ahead of Europe and the US in buying fancy telecoms kit. However, our much higher penetration of broadband is probably killing FAX more quickly here. :-) Regards, Steve ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
The last time I checked on a big FAX server, only a few percent of the calls used anything but basic 9600bps non-ECM operation. When I look in the shops, hardly any of the FAX machines - other than the low selling high end laser models - support anything fancy. If you are dealing purely with FAXes between big companies, most of the machines you encounter probably support the fancy features. In the general case, they don't. What can I say? That's not our reality. Every little HP OfficeJet el-cheapo multifunction inkjet device does ECM, MMR and V.34 (up to 33.6) speed faxing these days. That's reflected in a large number of greater than 14,400 speed connections (typically 28.8). They're not considered bells and whistles .. they're just standard. -Darren -- Darren Nickerson Senior Sales Support Engineer iFax Solutions, Inc. www.ifax.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1.215.438.4638 +1.215.243.8335 (fax) ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
Steve Underwood wrote: If you want to FAX over IP you need to be *very* careful if you want it to be reliable. You cannot use anything other than A-law or u-law as the codec. However, even using those, any data slips will kill the FAX operation. If the two boxes are on the same LAN it tends to work OK. Yes, I would think that this sort of application would be either local LAN or _extremely_ low latency WAN connections only, and probably not use audio compression at all. If you can't handle a few 64kb/s streams of audio for your FAXing application, then you have other problems to worry about :-) I mean CPU loading. HylaFAX only does 1D coding (unless that changed very recently) and the ECM is brand new. The features you list may be a lot less well tested than you think. :-) Also, only a tiny fraction of FAX machines can even support ECM. As mentioned in the other replies, these are no longer true statements as of HylaFAX 4.2.0 (which is not yet released, but very close). And putting the virtual modem client and HylaFAX on a separate box from Asterisk should eliminate CPU consumption concerns, I'd think. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
Darren Nickerson wrote: What can I say? That's not our reality. Every little HP OfficeJet el-cheapo multifunction inkjet device does ECM, MMR and V.34 (up to 33.6) speed faxing these days. That's reflected in a large number of greater than 14,400 speed connections (typically 28.8). They're not considered bells and whistles .. they're just standard. I can echo Darren's comments here, even though I don't have anywhere near as large installations to support as he does :-) Even my smallest installation regularly sees 2D MMR and speeds well over 14,400 using HylaFAX CVS code (4.2.0 beta) and driving the modem in Class 1 mode. These under $100 HP inkjet FAX/copy/scan/toast/jam/peanut butter/window washing machines implement pretty much everything FAX-wise, except color. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
... might as well use hylafax. Iain --On Monday, June 7, 2004 2:15 pm +0100 Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all. I'm looking to set up a fax via email service so that users can email a specific mailbox and receive fax's to a specific mailbox. Can this be done? I've had a look an SpanDSP and I think that's what I want but I'm not sure. Cheers Matt ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
Iain Stevenson wrote: ... might as well use hylafax. Yes, well, that requires using modems and having Asterisk send the audio back in/out as analog. It would be really fantastic if someone could come up with an app for Asterisk that emulated a Class 1 FAX modem and allowed Hylafax to talk to it (on a virtual extension number), rather than trying to reimplement all of Hylafax in SpanDSP. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
Hi Iain, Your response seems to indicate that you don't know what HylaFAX and spandsp actually do :-) Regards, Steve Iain Stevenson wrote: ... might as well use hylafax. Iain --On Monday, June 7, 2004 2:15 pm +0100 Matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all. I'm looking to set up a fax via email service so that users can email a specific mailbox and receive fax's to a specific mailbox. Can this be done? I've had a look an SpanDSP and I think that's what I want but I'm not sure. Cheers Matt ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
Kevin P. Fleming wrote: Iain Stevenson wrote: ... might as well use hylafax. Yes, well, that requires using modems and having Asterisk send the audio back in/out as analog. It would be really fantastic if someone could come up with an app for Asterisk that emulated a Class 1 FAX modem and allowed Hylafax to talk to it (on a virtual extension number), rather than trying to reimplement all of Hylafax in SpanDSP. spandsp doesn't try to reimplement all of HylaFAX. It reimplements only one piece - the T.4/T.30 code. I have a half implemented spandsp as class 1 fax modem which I put aside. People are using spandsp happily for things like fax to e-mail. Introducing HylaFAX would really slow things down. That said, I'd really like to complete the class 1 modem interface, and make HylaFAX an option for people. Regards, Steve ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Fax via email
Steve Underwood wrote: spandsp doesn't try to reimplement all of HylaFAX. It reimplements only one piece - the T.4/T.30 code. I have a half implemented spandsp as class 1 fax modem which I put aside. People are using spandsp happily for things like fax to e-mail. Introducing HylaFAX would really slow things down. That said, I'd really like to complete the class 1 modem interface, and make HylaFAX an option for people. Well, I was thinking of HylaFAX running on another box, with some type of IAX2 virtual FAX modem client running on the same machine, using IAX2 to communicate to Asterisk. That would remove the CPU usage from the Asterisk box and put it where it belongs. I'm curious how you think HylaFAX would really slow things down, if you mean something other that CPU usage? I'd see adding HylaFAX to the mix as adding well-tested and reliable ECM, MR, MMR and other protocol support on top of the virtual modem you've already implemented, as well as supporting alternative FAX origination methods (email, print, etc.). ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
