Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:19:31 +1000, Adam Goryachev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, IMHO, I would expect it perfectly reasonable for one of three responses from the 'user' community (in order of likelihood): 1) A resounding non-response 2) A response of Well, get a X101P or TDMx0P and try it 3) Some advice on how to resolve the problem. I would like to promote the following code of conduct: 1) If you think somebody should be using the X100P instead of a generic modem ... *promote* the X100P, tell the user who asked for help about the benefits of using an X100P, such as getting support included and why he might find that support worthwhile paying for. *kindly* remind him of the fact that Digium is supporting the Asterisk project and that the user might want to consider part of the purchase price as a donation towards the project if he thinks he doesn't need the support. *do not* lecture him, do not show any hostility, do not make any statements like we won't help you if you don't buy XYZ 2) If you think you can help to solve a problem with a generic modem ... *consider* to help in the same way as if it was an X100P or not help at all then, when you reach a point that all your help didn't lead anywhere, you may *promote* the X100P solution again by reminding the user tha this is exactly the reason why they would want the support that comes with the X100P. if you do manage to solve his problem, *kindly* remind him that this is a community that only exists because of contributors and that it would be nice to see the user contributing something back in the future. 3) If you don't want to help because it is a problem with a generic modem ... then don't help and keep quiet. Most people don't use non digium hardware, so they have no experience with the intricacies that might go wrong for you, whether it is a hardware problem, driver incompatibility, or whatever, we don't know the hardware, we don't trust the reliability of the solution, etc... This is why you would most likely get one of the first two responses. This assumes that the X100P is significantly different from the generic modem in question, which may not be the case. A positive approach would be to say let's see how we can make this work with the experience of using an X100P. If the outcome then is indeed that the generic modem is not working due to differences in the hardware, then you have just gained a good argument in favour of purchasing the X100P. Finally, when you are advising a NEW user, to add additional complications/limitations as the above, you are asking for trouble. Not necessarily. A newbie is the best target to tell why they might want to consider paying a little extra for the support that comes with the X100P and if you do it right, you will achieve both - an experience of being welcome to the Asterisk community and that we are friendly and helpful - an understanding that only the X100P carries a guarantee that it will actually work The user buys a generic modem a) can't get asterisk to work after some days/weeks, and gives up, tells everyone that asterisk is crap, immature, and doesn't work I venture to say that he will only do that if he found the community to be unhelpful and hostile. As long as we made an effort to help him, even if the outcome was that it didn't wor, he will be more inclined to tell others that - those Asterisk folks are a great lot, friendly and helpful - those cheap modems don't work but according to the friendly lot on the Asterisk mailing list, there is a company that is selling them rebranded and at a premium with support and they will make sure it does work; that it would seem worth while considering paying for that support. b) gets asterisk to work, but has major stability problems, or even just minor annoying hangups/echo/whatever and so they drop it and tell people that it's crap Here again, as long as the community will be friendly and helpful, they are more likely to learn that others have no such problems and that the reason is most likely to be found in unsuitable hardware, not Asterisk itself. c) gets asterisk to work, and everything runs really smoothly. They tell everyone asterisk is great, and there is no need to buy the $100 card If they get it to work, they will most likely join us here and become part of the community. As such they will learn about the issue and they are likely to pass on both the pros and cons, just like we do. So, you are limiting the number of people who can assist you to those who have used FreeBSD, With the same logic Windoze lusers promote Windoze ... So you are limiting the number of people who can assist you to those other 5%? Remember this: Without BSD there would be no Zaptel because Jim Dixon started Zaptel on BSD. So, show a little more gratitude please. Then again, you are assuming that the differences are so significant that an experienced Linux Asterisk user could not possibly assist an experienced BSD
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Goryachev Sent: 12 October 2004 04:20 To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards Wow, that's a really sucky attitude. I would expect *Digium* to tell him to go away and solve his own problems. However, if the user community does that, then this is one of the suckiest user communities I've run across in the free software world, and I've been doing free software for many years. Well, IMHO, I would expect it perfectly reasonable for one of three responses from the 'user' community (in order of likelihood): 1) A resounding non-response 2) A response of Well, get a X101P or TDMx0P and try it 3) Some advice on how to resolve the problem. I think it's a good thing the rest of the user community (IMHO) doesn't appear to follow your lead then! I bought a £20 generic X101P from a local voip hardware supplier, and am rather pleased I did. It works most of the time, but drops calls occasionally. I originally thought this might be due to it being a cheap card, but I now find out that the Digium X100P/X101P is the same card with a heatsink, and is 5 times more expensive. Nice. Additionally, the problem appears to be that the AMD Duron/VIA chipset combination in my server doesn't get along with the X10(0|1)P cards, and so if I'd bought the pricey card, I'd still have problems, only solvable by another purchase, and also be significantly out of pocket. FYI: I found all this out by use of Google, and the user community. I go searching for my solutions, and have not called Digium once, and would not expect them to answer calls on my card. To resolve my problem, I may buy a Sipura-3000, I may buy a Digium TDM card. One I woiuld expect support from Digium for, one I would not. Both I would expect to be able to *ask* a question here, and I would *hope* that people that had heard of what I'm using would respond. I would also hope that people that had ever heard of it would keep quiet rather than waste my bandwidth baiting me as to why I didn't buy their pet hardware choice of the moment. Cheers for now, Karl This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:58:30 -0500 (CDT), Joe Greco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what I've read leads me to believe that it won't be feasible to have large numbers (specifically, many more than two) of the X100P's in a single system. The limitation you mention stems from interrupt conflicts which is a problem unique to the x86 architecture. Use a Mac running LinuxPPC (ie YDL3.01) and you can use as many X100P as the Mac has PCI slots (some have six slots), no interrupt problems, no sound artifacts, it just works. This has been discussed on this list before, but since you seem to have overlooked it, I thought you might be interested to be told about this option. Perhaps we need to put this on the Wiki, so more people will be able to find out about it. Perhaps we should also put the idea into the heads of TerraSoft (the sponsors of YDL) to start selling their own Intel modems with support for Asterisk and Zaptel on YDL, just like Digium does. TerraSoft sponsored the work Digium did to make Asterisk and Zaptel work on PPC/YDL and they once were a Digium reseller. They lost interest beause they didn't get enough orders. Would be a win for the community to get them on board again. rgds benjk -- Sunrise Telephone Systems, 9F Shibuya Daikyo Bldg., 1-13-5 Shibuya, Tokyo, Japan. NB: Spam filters in place. Messages unrelated to the * mailing lists may get trashed. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:05:02 +0100, Karl Dyson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It works most of the time, but drops calls occasionally. and: To resolve my problem, I may buy a Sipura-3000 I don't know how much effort you have already made but keep in mind that there are parameters in the Zaptel drivers which can be tweaked to at least reduce false hangups significantly. There is also a patch now which allows you to disable the disconnect supervision on outgoing Zaptel calls only because that's the scenario where you are most unlikely to need it. rgds benjk -- Sunrise Telephone Systems, 9F Shibuya Daikyo Bldg., 1-13-5 Shibuya, Tokyo, Japan. NB: Spam filters in place. Messages unrelated to the * mailing lists may get trashed. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Benjamin on Asterisk Mailing Lists Sent: 12 October 2004 09:36 To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:05:02 +0100, Karl Dyson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It works most of the time, but drops calls occasionally. and: To resolve my problem, I may buy a Sipura-3000 I don't know how much effort you have already made but keep in mind that there are parameters in the Zaptel drivers which can be tweaked to at least reduce false hangups significantly. It doesn't look like false hangups (IMHO). Calls drop mid call, regardles of volume. You can go for a week with no drops, and then get 5 in a day (with fairly consistent usage patterns). Don't worry about effort involved -- it's installed in my house, and I tinker when ever possible, and enjoy it. My wife isn't especially over the moon with the dropped calls, but is a patient woman :) There is also a patch now which allows you to disable the disconnect supervision on outgoing Zaptel calls only because that's the scenario where you are most unlikely to need it. I get dropped calls occasionally on both in and outbound calls, and to aid diagnosis have a phone plugged directly into the line as well now (a splitter now has the connection to the X100P and this additional handset). If an inbound call drops, you can pick up this handset and continue the call, this indicating the X100P is dropping the call. I'd quite like to keep the internal card, and hence like the idea of upgrading to a TDM400 This would allow me to continue to use distinctive ringing, especially as I have a use for it(!), but I don't want to spend money on a TDM11B kit only to find that it doesn't get along with the amd/via combination. Is anyone using a TDM400 of any description (preferably FXO *and* FXS just in case) with an AMD/Via combination? I don't think the Sipura does DRING, so would have to loose that functionality if I go that route. On the plus side, I get failover FXO-FXS on the sipura in the event the * server dies, or in the event of a power failure. Swings and roundabouts! Thanks, Karl This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:58:30 -0500 (CDT), Joe Greco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what I've read leads me to believe that it won't be feasible to have large numbers (specifically, many more than two) of the X100P's in a single system. The limitation you mention stems from interrupt conflicts which is a problem unique to the x86 architecture. Use a Mac running LinuxPPC (ie YDL3.01) and you can use as many X100P as the Mac has PCI slots (some have six slots), no interrupt problems, no sound artifacts, it just works. This has been discussed on this list before, but since you seem to have overlooked it, I thought you might be interested to be told about this option. I haven't overlooked it, but appreciate your thoughtfulness anyways. My take on this is that with the X100P costing $100, and a Sipura 3000 costing $130 (all $USD), you'd likely need to have a Mac laying around in order to justify this from a cost point of view, because even at a loaded configuration with six cards, you only save $180 ($30 * 6 slots) and that's not a lot of money to buy a Mac with. There may be other factors influencing decisions at a particular site, and that's fine, but I suspect that there isn't going to be a mass run on Mac PPC systems just so people can go do this. It's almost certainly more cost effective to do the PPC thing than to do things like the Multitech MVP, but then again the Digium T1 card and channel bank are pretty cost effective too, without the interrupt hit of all those X100P's. :-) Perhaps we need to put this on the Wiki, so more people will be able to find out about it. By all means. Perhaps we should also put the idea into the heads of TerraSoft (the sponsors of YDL) to start selling their own Intel modems with support for Asterisk and Zaptel on YDL, just like Digium does. TerraSoft sponsored the work Digium did to make Asterisk and Zaptel work on PPC/YDL and they once were a Digium reseller. They lost interest beause they didn't get enough orders. Would be a win for the community to get them on board again. Regards, ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:57:52 -0500 (CDT), Joe Greco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: take on this is that with the X100P costing $100, and a Sipura 3000 costing $130 (all $USD), you'd likely need to have a Mac laying around in order to justify this from a cost point of view, because even at a loaded configuration with six cards, you only save $180 ($30 * 6 slots) and that's not a lot of money to buy a Mac with. It depends on where you are and whether or not is is ok to use a second hand vintage Mac. I picked up a PowerMac 8500 with 128MB RAM and a 700 MB SCSI disk for 1500 yen (ca 13 USD) from a second hand store here in Tokyo. It's got three PCI slots, so for a home, lab or pilot project, it could be turned into a 3 PSTN line PBX for as little as another 20-25 USD (using generic modems) and it would work, unlike the Sipura which is unable to take incoming calls on a Japanese PSTN line. A five or six PCI slot PM 9xxx can be found for 50-75 USD, so you could build a five or six port FXO gateway for as little as 100 USD. It'll be a pretty ugly, heavy and bulky FXO gateway but at that price I'd say don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Even using Digium's X100P, it would still be less than most 4 port FXO gateways and it will be multi-protocol including IAX, which no other FXO gateway will do at any price. With a bit of luck one might find a bunch of second hand modems that were originally sold in Japan and thereby even get the type approval, unlike the X100P which doesn't have Japanese type approval. I know of people in South America (Brazil and elsewhere) who use vintage Macs with 5 and 6 generic modem cards. Those vintage Macs are far more expensive down there (about 200-300 USD) but since they save the exorbitant and in my opinion criminal import duties on those modems, they still save at least 1000 USD which is a lot of money in those places. But even in the US, you should be able to pick up a vintage PM 9xxx series Mac for well under 100 USD. The chance is that such a junk yard bargain will give you much less headache than a bargain Intel box that is new and any bet that the vintage Mac will outlive almost every new Intel box. There are lemons amongst Macs, too, of course, but if it has already survived since 1997 or 1998 then it will probably go on to last forever because those machines were built for eternity. There may be other factors influencing decisions at a particular site, and that's fine, but I suspect that there isn't going to be a mass run on Mac PPC systems just so people can go do this. And therein lies the opportunity. How else could you possibly expect to get so much quality computer for so little money? ;-) rgds benjk -- Sunrise Telephone Systems, 9F Shibuya Daikyo Bldg., 1-13-5 Shibuya, Tokyo, Japan. NB: Spam filters in place. Messages unrelated to the * mailing lists may get trashed. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On Oct 10, 2004, at 10:08 AM, Wolf Paul wrote: dean collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, those of us not working with hefty corporate budgets may not have the option of spending $100 for a test machine when there's a more cost effective option available. I'd seriously suggest, in your situation, that you just forgo connectivity to the PSTN altogether for testing. Grab a soft phone, such as X-Lite or gnophone, and experiment with the dialplan and features that way. If you want to go further, you can invest in an E1 card and the E1s to go with it. If that warrants don't come asking for support then you guys are not much of a community but a sales machine for Digium. I think it's more that past experience has shown us that the Digium hardware just works out of the box with a minimum of effort. They've done a very good job on both the hardware and the drivers to talk to it. You're welcome to use whatever you want (that's the beauty of Asterisk!) but you'll have *far* less trouble with a Digium board. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On 10/12/2004, Benjamin on Asterisk Mailing Lists [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote a lot of stuff. Good god ben, don't you ever go to sleep? It must be, what, 2am in Japan now?? Heheh.. i would have thought you'd be pretty pooped out by now, what with the long threads and flame wars on the digium vs clone vs intel stuff that's been flying lately.. Cheers and G'nite Flynn ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 00:10:26 +0100, David J Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I beleive Telappliant in the UK are doing them for £55, ($35) http://www.voiptalk.org/products/index.php?cPath=27 Dave £55 is more like US$100 :-) ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 22:32 -0500, Steven Critchfield wrote: On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 00:10 +0100, David J Carter wrote: I beleive Telappliant in the UK are doing them for £55, ($35) http://www.voiptalk.org/products/index.php?cPath=27 Your conversion above is going the wrong way. a British pound is worth more than a US Dollar. In fact, 55 British pounds is nearly $100USD now. Look at http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi No Steve, He works for NASA. :) -- Dave Cotton [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 09:23:54 +0200, Dave Cotton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No Steve, He works for NASA. :) hilarious :-) This reminds me of an anecdote I'd like to share ... After WWII, US Army officials set new values for measurement units in defeated Japan. At some point they came to a unit Yen, the character of which can also be translated into circle when taken out of its monetary context. The army officials quickly concluded that the new value for the unit circle should be 360 degrees and so the Yen-Dollar exchange rate was fixed at 360 yen to the dollar. rgds benjk -- Sunrise Telephone Systems, 9F Shibuya Daikyo Bldg., 1-13-5 Shibuya, Tokyo, Japan. NB: Spam filters in place. Messages unrelated to the * mailing lists may get trashed. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
Cheap shot. Digium does Asterisk FOR FREE. No. As with most of us who support free software projects, we support them because it suits our business goals. We don't do it for free. The investment in time, effort, and resources is paid back, frequently in a way which can't directly be translated by accountants, but it is still an investment, and it is expected to pay off. There are massive benefits to having other users in the community contributing towards and extending the development. Some of us don't even actively *advertise* our company's association with the project in question, something which has been mildly nagging at me about the Digium situation. They support themselves, which I hope you agree is a necessary thing, by selling hardware, one instance of which is the low-end X100P. Essentially the X100P is a slightly modified generic voicemodem THAT COMES WITH CUSTOMER SUPPORT. That is, along with its hardware functionality comes the ability to call up and get help if you encounter problems. That seems quite reasonable. This list is intensely active, and the developers and others who provide advice here are necessarily limited in the amount of attention they can devote to (the often repetitive) questions coming from first-timers. That seems quite reasonable as well. There are, of course, many other participants on the lists, and numerous resources which can be used to help solve problems. Stir into that mix a first-timer who is undercutting the profit model that enables Digium to offer us this wonderful software, And don't forget to trivialize the contributions of everyone else while you're doing it, and then sprinkle your obnoxious insult to the community on top, I didn't find it obnoxious or insulting. In fact, I'd have to agree. One of the benefits to the whole free software movement is supposed to be the freedom to make choices (or, if you prefer, the freedom not to be locked in to a vendor). If you're going to jump all over a guy who *wants* to join the community, for not buying your Approved Vendor's Hardware, maybe because he can't afford it or justify the cost, then it is you who are damaging and limiting the growth of the community. I would imagine that Digium made a conscious choice to use an existing generic voicemodem chipset and to make its drivers compatible with generic versions. As a manufacturer, they certainly had the option to obfuscate things at the hardware level - and they didn't. If they truly wanted to discourage people from doing this, why distribute a driver package that recognizes and installs generic devices? I believe Digium recognizes that they are adding significant value to an otherwise-worth-$2.50-in-quantity, and are betting that most people will see value in buying in at a premium. However, it appears to me that they have also chosen to invite people in who, for whatever reason, have not chosen to purchase their hardware. Looking at it from their point of view, that makes *sense*, because if someone invests five bucks at Fry's on a crummy softmodem, puts it in their box, discovers the joys of Asterisk, and then sells other people on the wonders of Asterisk, Digium still stands to profit. The community grows, and being the main supplier of Asterisk-compatible interface cards should remain a profitable business because most commercial installations will want some level of support. So for heaven's sake, don't dump on some guy for buying a generic softmodem so he can play around. Encourage it. Say generic softmodem is better than alienating this guy. and you're going to find that people (correctly) tell you to go away and solve your own problems. Wow, that's a really sucky attitude. I would expect *Digium* to tell him to go away and solve his own problems. However, if the user community does that, then this is one of the suckiest user communities I've run across in the free software world, and I've been doing free software for many years. From my perspective your primary problem isn't hardware; its your attitude. And from mine, it's users with attitudes like yours. As for me? I'm shopping for cheap modem cards. Why? 1) I'm on FreeBSD, so Digium probably won't support that. 2) I realistically expect to go all VoIP, except perhaps for fax, so I don't want to spend a ton on cards that I won't need. 3) I expect to do something like a Sipura 3000 if we retain a single POTS line, or maybe some sort of Cisco with ISDN BRI VIC cards if we keep the BRI's. 4) I don't really think my PPro200 PBX box will survive very well with having to handle the codec work anyways. But I'm open to spending ten bucks to explore this method. If I was buying a Digium card and it didn't pan out, I'd probably want to see if I could return it, and then there's all the annoyance of an RMA, and time frames after which you can't return it, etc. This way, I'm out a whopping $10.90, and I can deal with that.
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
Why don't you take this off-line were it belongs Martin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Greco Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 9:17 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards Cheap shot. Digium does Asterisk FOR FREE. No. As with most of us who support free software projects, we support them because it suits our business goals. We don't do it for free. The investment in time, effort, and resources is paid back, frequently in a way which can't directly be translated by accountants, but it is still an investment, and it is expected to pay off. There are massive benefits to having other users in the community contributing towards and extending the development. Some of us don't even actively *advertise* our company's association with the project in question, something which has been mildly nagging at me about the Digium situation. They support themselves, which I hope you agree is a necessary thing, by selling hardware, one instance of which is the low-end X100P. Essentially the X100P is a slightly modified generic voicemodem THAT COMES WITH CUSTOMER SUPPORT. That is, along with its hardware functionality comes the ability to call up and get help if you encounter problems. That seems quite reasonable. This list is intensely active, and the developers and others who provide advice here are necessarily limited in the amount of attention they can devote to (the often repetitive) questions coming from first-timers. That seems quite reasonable as well. There are, of course, many other participants on the lists, and numerous resources which can be used to help solve problems. Stir into that mix a first-timer who is undercutting the profit model that enables Digium to offer us this wonderful software, And don't forget to trivialize the contributions of everyone else while you're doing it, and then sprinkle your obnoxious insult to the community on top, I didn't find it obnoxious or insulting. In fact, I'd have to agree. One of the benefits to the whole free software movement is supposed to be the freedom to make choices (or, if you prefer, the freedom not to be locked in to a vendor). If you're going to jump all over a guy who *wants* to join the community, for not buying your Approved Vendor's Hardware, maybe because he can't afford it or justify the cost, then it is you who are damaging and limiting the growth of the community. I would imagine that Digium made a conscious choice to use an existing generic voicemodem chipset and to make its drivers compatible with generic versions. As a manufacturer, they certainly had the option to obfuscate things at the hardware level - and they didn't. If they truly wanted to discourage people from doing this, why distribute a driver package that recognizes and installs generic devices? I believe Digium recognizes that they are adding significant value to an otherwise-worth-$2.50-in-quantity, and are betting that most people will see value in buying in at a premium. However, it appears to me that they have also chosen to invite people in who, for whatever reason, have not chosen to purchase their hardware. Looking at it from their point of view, that makes *sense*, because if someone invests five bucks at Fry's on a crummy softmodem, puts it in their box, discovers the joys of Asterisk, and then sells other people on the wonders of Asterisk, Digium still stands to profit. The community grows, and being the main supplier of Asterisk-compatible interface cards should remain a profitable business because most commercial installations will want some level of support. So for heaven's sake, don't dump on some guy for buying a generic softmodem so he can play around. Encourage it. Say generic softmodem is better than alienating this guy. and you're going to find that people (correctly) tell you to go away and solve your own problems. Wow, that's a really sucky attitude. I would expect *Digium* to tell him to go away and solve his own problems. However, if the user community does that, then this is one of the suckiest user communities I've run across in the free software world, and I've been doing free software for many years. From my perspective your primary problem isn't hardware; its your attitude. And from mine, it's users with attitudes like yours. As for me? I'm shopping for cheap modem cards. Why? 1) I'm on FreeBSD, so Digium probably won't support that. 2) I realistically expect to go all VoIP, except perhaps for fax, so I don't want to spend a ton on cards that I won't need. 3) I expect to do something like a Sipura 3000 if we retain a single POTS line, or maybe some sort of Cisco with ISDN BRI VIC cards if we keep the BRI's. 4) I don't really think my PPro200 PBX box will survive very well with having to handle the codec work anyways. But I'm open to spending ten bucks
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
Why don't you take this off-line were it belongs You don't think discussions about the Asterisk user community belong on asterisk-users? It belongs right here. Participants who want to alienate potential new users just because they didn't buy a Digium product have a negative effect on the community, and on Digium. I don't hear any whining about people using Asterisk in an all-VoIP configuration, where Digium also doesn't make any direct profit. Let's just say I heartily disagree with your contention that this belongs off-line. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
Martin Keding [EMAIL PROTECTED] lazily top-posted: Why don't you take this off-line were it belongs Perhaps because it's a discussion about Asterisk and Digium. If you were expecting to see threads about carrots and broccoli in this mail list, then you need to consider the possibility that you've subscribed to the wrong list. -- _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ K e v i n W a l s h _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/[EMAIL PROTECTED] _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
Ok, plenty of Cheap Shots all the way around... Can we call this a draw? I believe what Paul was saying is IF the attitude from the list is don't buy digium hardware don't come around here for help, than that is not in keeping with the general OS community. I happen to agree. I buy Digium hardware because I love the idea of sell the hardware open source the code. (precisely the same reason I own a Squeeze Box) Not to mention great quality, great services, etc. etc. However, you have to understand $10 vs. $100 for proof of concept. Let's work together to make OS the norm and not the exception. ~c -- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 13:49:39 -0500 From: Brian Capouch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Wolf Paul wrote: However, those of us not working with hefty corporate budgets may not have the option of spending $100 for a test machine when there's a more cost effective option available. . . . . . If that warrants don't come asking for support then you guys are not much of a community but a sales machine for Digium. Cheap shot. Digium does Asterisk FOR FREE. They support themselves, which I hope you agree is a necessary thing, by selling hardware, one instance of which is the low-end X100P. Essentially the X100P is a slightly modified generic voicemodem THAT COMES WITH CUSTOMER SUPPORT. That is, along with its hardware functionality comes the ability to call up and get help if you encounter problems. This list is intensely active, and the developers and others who provide advice here are necessarily limited in the amount of attention they can devote to (the often repetitive) questions coming from first-timers. Stir into that mix a first-timer who is undercutting the profit model that enables Digium to offer us this wonderful software, and then sprinkle your obnoxious insult to the community on top, and you're going to find that people (correctly) tell you to go away and solve your own problems. From my perspective your primary problem isn't hardware; its your attitude. B. *** ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
Wow, that's a really sucky attitude. I would expect *Digium* to tell him to go away and solve his own problems. However, if the user community does that, then this is one of the suckiest user communities I've run across in the free software world, and I've been doing free software for many years. Well, IMHO, I would expect it perfectly reasonable for one of three responses from the 'user' community (in order of likelihood): 1) A resounding non-response 2) A response of Well, get a X101P or TDMx0P and try it 3) Some advice on how to resolve the problem. Reasoning: Most people don't use non digium hardware, so they have no experience with the intricacies that might go wrong for you, whether it is a hardware problem, driver incompatibility, or whatever, we don't know the hardware, we don't trust the reliability of the solution, etc... This is why you would most likely get one of the first two responses. Sure, there are some people who have used the hardware on this list, there are some people who haven't but will attempt to help anyway by presuming that your hardware/driver is all fine, etc...There may even be some people who know enough to tell you that the hardware you have won't work, or that you need to apply some obscure patch... Finally, when you are advising a NEW user, to add additional complications/limitations as the above, you are asking for trouble. Sure, some people could express their opinions better/differently/whatever, but at the end of the day, you have a few potential outcomes: The user buys a generic modem a) can't get asterisk to work after some days/weeks, and gives up, tells everyone that asterisk is crap, immature, and doesn't work b) gets asterisk to work, but has major stability problems, or even just minor annoying hangups/echo/whatever and so they drop it and tell people that it's crap c) gets asterisk to work, and everything runs really smoothly. They tell everyone asterisk is great, and there is no need to buy the $100 card, then we propogate all of the above chances for failure As for me? I'm shopping for cheap modem cards. Why? 1) I'm on FreeBSD, so Digium probably won't support that. (I'm not saying freebsd is bad/better/worse/whatever). So, you are limiting the number of people who can assist you to those who have used FreeBSD, and then again to only those who have used a generic modem. BTW, I though digium was actually putting a reasonable amount of effort into getting asterisk + drivers to work on FreeBSD, and have seen a number of people claiming success. 2) I realistically expect to go all VoIP, except perhaps for fax, so I don't want to spend a ton on cards that I won't need. If you need them, buy them, if you don't, don't. I don't see why you would buy something that you 'might' need, regardless of the price?? 4) I don't really think my PPro200 PBX box will survive very well with having to handle the codec work anyways. There are other people that have had success with that sort of machine, depending on the number of channels/codec conversions etc... But I'm open to spending ten bucks to explore this method. If I was buying a Digium card and it didn't pan out, I'd probably want to see if I could return it, and then there's all the annoyance of an RMA, and time frames after which you can't return it, etc. This way, I'm out a whopping $10.90, and I can deal with that. Well, I would expect that you wouldn't need to RMA it, digium seem pretty good at supporting their products... but, I don't want to spoil your fun, get the cheap modem, worst case is you will either buy the X101P, or will go away and tell people how bad asterisk is Oh. That's over at ChiefValue.com. Encore 56K V.92 Internal PCI Fax Modem, Model ENF656-ESW-INPR - Retail. $5.90 plus $5.00 shipping. I wish you luck, I know nothing about these generic modems, but it doesn't look like that even comes close to mentioning the right indicators to show that it would work but, like I said, I don't know. Share the knowledge. It's not bad for Digium. The guy who wants to get into this telephony stuff for a cheap price, or just wants to see if it will work, he's going to be attracted by the ten dollar deal. Let him do that and then preach the glories of Asterisk. Or preach how crap asterisk is Remember this: Digium can't grow (much) unless the community grows. So help it grow. By advocating sustainable growth methods... ie, promoting known good hardware, which can be easily supported. Better options that the X101P clones exist, such as the various ATA devices, or for ISDN there are even more options. Look on the wiki for more, there is a lot of information available there. Just my 0.02c worth. PS, for those people who feel like sending a message to the list saying Don't use clone x101Ps, or whatever, please don't. The best response you can send is a non-reply. Those people who want to support that user, will, the rest of us
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:19:31 +1000, Adam Goryachev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PS, for those people who feel like sending a message to the list saying Don't use clone x101Ps, or whatever, please don't. The best response you can send is a non-reply. Those people who want to support that user, will, the rest of us should just keep quite. The same as you would keep quite if you know nothing about a sipura and you see a post about some wierd problem someone is having with their new sipura. Well, I'm a generic modem user. And I'm really happy with it. It gave me a lot of trouble at the beginning, but it wasn't the modem's fault, it was the motherboard's. The source of the problem (the PCI controller) was identified with the help of the Asterisk community (which I really appreciate), and now there's no problem at all. And official Digium hardware users had the same problems on such chipsets. I bought the generic modem for some reasons: 1. I'm not exactly poor, but I don't have USD 100 laying around either. 2. Regarding 1: I am using it (for now) only for personal reasons, so if it didn't work, I just couldn't afford to lose USD 100. 10 bucks (the cheap modem price) was an acceptable risk. 3. Here in Brazil you just can't find this kind of hardware that easy. It would be even more overpriced, or I would have to pay an absurd import tax if I found an online store willing to ship it here. To be honest, 1 and 2 were the real reasons. But 3 reinforces the others. As for supporting (financially) Asterisk, there should be a donate button on their website. Through Paypal, credit card, or whatever. I still don't think a X100P is worth USD 100. But I would like to make a contribution, as well as others that posted on the list. A lot of small contributions can make a significant one. And being forced to contribute doesn't make sense. A contribution is a voluntary act. So if you want to contribute, it doesn't have to be USD 90 (X100P - its real price). You could buy the cheap modem ($10) and give the amount you find appropriate to Digium through a real donation. If they are selling G729 licenses for $10, I believe that even this amount would mean something to them. Just my thoughts, and to keep the guy from being crucified alone. :) Marconi. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
Wow, that's a really sucky attitude. I would expect *Digium* to tell him to go away and solve his own problems. However, if the user community does that, then this is one of the suckiest user communities I've run across in the free software world, and I've been doing free software for many years. Well, IMHO, I would expect it perfectly reasonable for one of three responses from the 'user' community (in order of likelihood): 1) A resounding non-response 2) A response of Well, get a X101P or TDMx0P and try it 3) Some advice on how to resolve the problem. All of those are quite reasonable, of course. The bad attitude response to that user, however, seemed quite uncalled- for. Reasoning: Most people don't use non digium hardware, so they have no experience with the intricacies that might go wrong for you, whether it is a hardware problem, driver incompatibility, or whatever, we don't know the hardware, we don't trust the reliability of the solution, etc... This is why you would most likely get one of the first two responses. Sure, there are some people who have used the hardware on this list, there are some people who haven't but will attempt to help anyway by presuming that your hardware/driver is all fine, etc...There may even be some people who know enough to tell you that the hardware you have won't work, or that you need to apply some obscure patch... Finally, when you are advising a NEW user, to add additional complications/limitations as the above, you are asking for trouble. Sure, some people could express their opinions better/differently/whatever, but at the end of the day, you have a few potential outcomes: The user buys a generic modem a) can't get asterisk to work after some days/weeks, and gives up, tells everyone that asterisk is crap, immature, and doesn't work Yes, that seems bad. However, free software projects always have that problem. Here's what really seems to happen: User X has whatever experience with Package P. User X says anything about Package P to User Y, who has never heard of Package P. The general outcomes of that are not particularly negative - if Y has not heard of P, that's bad. If X conveys a positive experience to P, that's good. If X conveys a negative experience to P, well, you're not really any worse off than when Y hadn't heard of P, but in fact Y may then still look at P (and even come to a different conclusion). The old saying about print whatever you like about me, just be sure to spell my name right applies to free software projects quite well. b) gets asterisk to work, but has major stability problems, or even just minor annoying hangups/echo/whatever and so they drop it and tell people that it's crap See above. I'll further note that this sort of thing typically plagues free software projects, and that people expect them to eventually be worked out. It won't stop many people from investigating. Further, the X100P is itself apparently mainly a mild variation on a standard chipset design. That leaves some doubt as to whether or not the experience would be significantly different between the X100P and the generic. c) gets asterisk to work, and everything runs really smoothly. They tell everyone asterisk is great, and there is no need to buy the $100 card, then we propogate all of the above chances for failure Except that neither the $100 card nor the $5 card are viable in large quantities in a single system, according to recent posts to this very list. The guy who's been tasked by his boss to look at Asterisk is likely to buy the more expensive card, /because/ of the support. The guy who's playing with it at home is more likely to buy the $5 card, and may have troubles, but at least he'll be playing with Asterisk, rather than not playing with it. In both cases, what I've read leads me to believe that it won't be feasible to have large numbers (specifically, many more than two) of the X100P's in a single system. At that point, then, you're largely looking at people buying the X100P as a platform for experimentation. They'll either be moving on to some TDM400P's or a T100P with a channel bank (etc) in order to implement that production system. So option c) doesn't really concern me /too/ much. I personally believe that Digium chose to implement things this way so that people would have some options. As for me? I'm shopping for cheap modem cards. Why? 1) I'm on FreeBSD, so Digium probably won't support that. (I'm not saying freebsd is bad/better/worse/whatever). So, you are limiting the number of people who can assist you to those who have used FreeBSD, and then again to only those who have used a generic modem. I'm even further limiting myself because I really don't care too much if I manage to get it to work, because I probably won't put that much effort into it, and in fact may not even buy it to begin with, so that's an even bigger limit. :-) BTW, I though
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
Brian West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Benjamin on Asterisk Mailing Lists [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having said that, you have a good case in favour of the Intel modems if you are in a country where the X100P doesn't have type approval but you can find an Intel modem (with the right chipset) that does. In such a case, using the Intel modem might be the only legal way to connect your Asterisk box to an analog PSTN line. Not really the X101P is really just a modem that already has the approvals. They stick a heatsink of the md3200 chip and call it an x101p. That's an expensive heatsink. :-) -- _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ K e v i n W a l s h _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/[EMAIL PROTECTED] _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
Brian Capouch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wolf Paul wrote: If that warrants don't come asking for support then you guys are not much of a community but a sales machine for Digium. Digium does Asterisk FOR FREE. I wish people would stop posting misleading comments like that. Asterisk is a community effort - not the work of just one person or company. Digium may well do Asterisk for free, but so does every other contributor. Please do not forget the loyal Asterisk community. Asterisk would not be anywhere close to where it is today without it. -- _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ K e v i n W a l s h _/ _/_/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/[EMAIL PROTECTED] _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
Grandstreams are availabe for $65 quanity one, so its not hard to believe that you could get them for $55 for larger quantities http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=grandstreamhl=enlr=tab=wfscoring=p Jim James H. Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Steve Totaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards i am still looking for the elusive $55 grandstreams. - Original Message - From: dean collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 1:46 PM Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards Lol, you're kidding right, go and look at what it costs to buy an alternative ip-pabx in comparison, and sorry but no corporate budget here, this is just a system for my home $100 on an old P3-700, and about the same on a card, and 2 $55 grandstream handsets along with some free sip softphone software. Hardly a fortune. On the other hand I think we are very fortunate that asterisk exists and cant help but get excited about where they will grow to. Dean -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wolf Paul Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 1:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards dean collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rajeev, supporting Digium enables Asterisk to exist in the first place. Don't come asking for support here should you not be able to get these work alikes to operate correctly. I don't know Rajeev's situation, but here is mine: I am all for supporting Digium, and when I get ready to set up my production PBX I will buy their cards. However, those of us not working with hefty corporate budgets may not have the option of spending $100 for a test machine when there's a more cost effective option available. When I build my production machine, I will need multiple E1 ports; the FXO from the test machine will then land on my pile of no-longer-needed hardware. I'd rather use a $7 card for that than spend $100 which I will not be able to recover. (By the time I get two such Intel cards over here to Austria, I may well have spent $100 on shipping and customs charges, anyway). If that warrants don't come asking for support then you guys are not much of a community but a sales machine for Digium. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
I beleive Telappliant in the UK are doing them for £55, ($35) http://www.voiptalk.org/products/index.php?cPath=27 Dave Grandstreams are availabe for $65 quanity one, so its not hard to believe that you could get them for $55 for larger quantities http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=grandstreamhl=enlr=tab=wfscoring=p Jim James H. Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] i am still looking for the elusive $55 grandstreams. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 21:34 +0100, Kevin Walsh wrote: Brian Capouch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wolf Paul wrote: If that warrants don't come asking for support then you guys are not much of a community but a sales machine for Digium. Digium does Asterisk FOR FREE. I wish people would stop posting misleading comments like that. It isn't misleading, but as you point out, it isn't the full picture. Asterisk is a community effort - not the work of just one person or company. Digium may well do Asterisk for free, but so does every other contributor. Please do not forget the loyal Asterisk community. Asterisk would not be anywhere close to where it is today without it. Without the first portion having been provided to the community, we would probably be trying to shoe horn bayonne into what we currently use asterisk for. Either way, I am thankfull for al who have contributed code to the project. Thankfull for all who have pushed the code into new places. And those who have purchased Digium hardware and kept food on Mark and companies plate so that they code another day, month, or year more on this wonderful project. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 00:10 +0100, David J Carter wrote: I beleive Telappliant in the UK are doing them for £55, ($35) http://www.voiptalk.org/products/index.php?cPath=27 Your conversion above is going the wrong way. a British pound is worth more than a US Dollar. In fact, 55 British pounds is nearly $100USD now. Look at http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Intel Modem vs Digium Cards
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 00:10:26 +0100, David J Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I beleive Telappliant in the UK are doing them for £55, ($35) Whoa, that's an amazing exchange rate you've got there. I'm sure at that rate some American cowboy will buy another London bridge and New York taxis are going to standardise on Bentleys. rgds benjk -- Sunrise Telephone Systems, 9F Shibuya Daikyo Bldg., 1-13-5 Shibuya, Tokyo, Japan. NB: Spam filters in place. Messages unrelated to the * mailing lists may get trashed. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
