RE: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea
--On Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:56 AM + Adthrawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Assume I have a non-POE switch with 24 RJ-45 (ethernet)=20 ports. I design a=20 1U box that can be mounted just above/below the non-POE=20 switch, call it a=20 POEI (POE inserter). This box has 48 RJ-45 ports, 24=20 [...] Are POE switches expensive enough to warrant manufacturing=20 above? If not, is there a case for not having to swap out all=20 of ones existing=20 switches? [...] Depends on what expensive means, and whether your switces are due for replacemtn or not. And what you intended to replace them with not counting PoE. The difference between Catalyst 2950-XL-24s and 3524-PRW-XL's is about $300. HP Blade Switches (most of the ProCurve range) can take the new HP PoE blades (only just started shipping), which essentially upgrade your enterprise switch for a hell of a lot less. 4000M? The difference on a large Catalyst switch is about $5-10/port if I recall correctly from my last deployment. It's peanuts really. Compare it to the cost of 48 power adaptors (virtually no IP phone is shipped with a PSU). Does something like this already exist for cheap? Yes. Several. Indeed - we even resell a great brand in the UK If so, is it any good? Yes. Many work just fine. If so, does it need more features? To do what? It's called a mid-span power injector. The ones I've seen do that and nothing else. I'd say they are living up to their task. The brand we resell has a number of remote management features - allowing you to remotely check on the health of each port, power drains, port status and has some remote tools for flashing power, and shutting power off to certain ports (like badly wired 10baseT devices that may be hard wired to each pin). Cisco also produces a simple unit called the PWR-PANEL that is just a basic injector with RPS options. If not, would you buy something like this? If so, what features have I missed? If so, what is it worth? Google the rest of your answers. You're about 6 years too late to catch the first run of this train. Ditto - we've already got them! Regards, Ad. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users /** Ken Alker [EMAIL PROTECTED]ham radio: KA6SDU Impulse Internet Services http://www.impulse.net Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, Ventura, Los Angeles, Orange T-3 / T-1 / ADSL / ISDN / 56K / web hosting / wireless / co-lo ***/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea
Follow this link for some more info. Maxim IC just released a couple of chips that handle the details of 802.3af for you. http://www.maxim-ic.com/view_press_release.cfm/release_id/925 Matteo Brancaleoni wrote: Hi. The POEI simply connects the four ethernet signals on each of its inputs (pins 1,2,3,6 on each) to the same pins on its corresponding outputs. Additionally, it supplies -48VDC (maybe selectable if there are other voltage needs) on the appropriate pins (also maybe selectable if different vendors use different wiring conventions for POE) of its outputs. and probably you're going to fry something on your lan. POE isn't simple power on the right pins, but is a sort of protocol. Really, on POE enabled devices (or injectors) you won't measure the DC with a tester, simply because POE on port X is enabled after a request by the device on that port. this is for mantaining compatibity with non POE devices. so you will need also something that detects the power request on each port and enables it. Matteo. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea
Ken Alker wrote: Based on several threads I've read on this list, I assume that it would be handy to supply POE (power over ethernet) in an environment without having to purchase POE switches (assumed expensive) and abandon one's existing (familiar/custom/not-yet-expensed/etc.) switches/hubs. Ken, such a device (and some more PoE stuff) is available from Powerdsine. Don't know what it costs, just wanted to let you know its available. Jan ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea
Froogle is your friend http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=powerdsine - Original Message - From: Michiel Betel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 3:08 AM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea Ken Alker wrote: Based on several threads I've read on this list, I assume that it would be handy to supply POE (power over ethernet) in an environment without having to purchase POE switches (assumed expensive) and abandon one's existing (familiar/custom/not-yet-expensed/etc.) switches/hubs. Assume I have a non-POE switch with 24 RJ-45 (ethernet) ports. I design a 1U box that can be mounted just above/below the non-POE switch, call it a POEI (POE inserter). This box has 48 RJ-45 ports, 24 inputs and 24 outputs. The end user removes all the ethernet cables connected to the existing switch and moves them to the outputs of the POEI. Next, the end user takes six-inch long ethernet cables and connects each (now vacant) port of the existing switch to the inputs of the POEI. Ken, The boxes youn describe are already being manufactured by amongst others: http://www.powerdsine.com/Products/Midspan/ I have no idea on pricing though.. Regards, Michiel ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea
Hi. The POEI simply connects the four ethernet signals on each of its inputs (pins 1,2,3,6 on each) to the same pins on its corresponding outputs. Additionally, it supplies -48VDC (maybe selectable if there are other voltage needs) on the appropriate pins (also maybe selectable if different vendors use different wiring conventions for POE) of its outputs. and probably you're going to fry something on your lan. POE isn't simple power on the right pins, but is a sort of protocol. Really, on POE enabled devices (or injectors) you won't measure the DC with a tester, simply because POE on port X is enabled after a request by the device on that port. this is for mantaining compatibity with non POE devices. so you will need also something that detects the power request on each port and enables it. Matteo. -- Matteo Brancaleoni Espia System Administrator Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.espia.it Phone : +39 02 70633354 - ext 201 IAX(2): [EMAIL PROTECTED] - ext 201 Iaxtel: 1-700-56-62458 - ext 201 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea
-Original Message- From: Ken Alker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea Does something like this already exist for cheap? If so, is it any good? If so, does it need more features? If not, would you buy something like this? If so, what features have I missed? If so, what is it worth? Daydreaming, as usual. Ken Ken, 3Com makes a 24-port midspan box that sells for around $800. Kevin This electronic message transmission, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of the individuals to which this e-mail is addressed and is to be reviewed and used exclusively for authorized company purposes. This transmission may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you believe you may have received this electronic message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return email and delete or destroy the original message and/or any copy of it from your computer system and/or your files. Thank you. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea
On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 08:02, Matteo Brancaleoni wrote: Hi. The POEI simply connects the four ethernet signals on each of its inputs (pins 1,2,3,6 on each) to the same pins on its corresponding outputs. Additionally, it supplies -48VDC (maybe selectable if there are other voltage needs) on the appropriate pins (also maybe selectable if different vendors use different wiring conventions for POE) of its outputs. and probably you're going to fry something on your lan. POE isn't simple power on the right pins, but is a sort of protocol. Really, on POE enabled devices (or injectors) you won't measure the DC with a tester, simply because POE on port X is enabled after a request by the device on that port. this is for mantaining compatibity with non POE devices. so you will need also something that detects the power request on each port and enables it. How does a non powered device request power? -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea
On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 02:59, Ken Alker wrote: Based on several threads I've read on this list, I assume that it would be handy to supply POE (power over ethernet) in an environment without having to purchase POE switches (assumed expensive) and abandon one's existing (familiar/custom/not-yet-expensed/etc.) switches/hubs. Assume I have a non-POE switch with 24 RJ-45 (ethernet) ports. I design a 1U box that can be mounted just above/below the non-POE switch, call it a POEI (POE inserter). This box has 48 RJ-45 ports, 24 inputs and 24 outputs. The end user removes all the ethernet cables connected to the existing switch and moves them to the outputs of the POEI. Next, the end user takes six-inch long ethernet cables and connects each (now vacant) port of the existing switch to the inputs of the POEI. The POEI simply connects the four ethernet signals on each of its inputs (pins 1,2,3,6 on each) to the same pins on its corresponding outputs. Additionally, it supplies -48VDC (maybe selectable if there are other voltage needs) on the appropriate pins (also maybe selectable if different vendors use different wiring conventions for POE) of its outputs. This could be an inexpensive way to provide POE without having to replace all of one's switches. Additionally, this could be a nifty business opportunity. Are POE switches expensive enough to warrant manufacturing above? If not, is there a case for not having to swap out all of ones existing switches? Does something like this already exist for cheap? If so, is it any good? If so, does it need more features? If not, would you buy something like this? If so, what features have I missed? If so, what is it worth? Your main problem is going to be in metering. I think the PoE spec is some smallish ma rating. If you use some COTS power supply capable of providing power to all 24 ports, your talking about some pretty hefty power, and unless you wish to put some form of circuitry to act as a limiter per port, your could end up with some nasty problems. Also I believe the spec states -48vdc. IT isn't difficult for a small power regulator on the device side to make that what it needs inside after the voltage drop for distance. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea
On Tuesday 20 January 2004 10:30 am, Kevin Ragsdale wrote: 3Com makes a 24-port midspan box that sells for around $800. Kevin This electronic message transmission, including attachments, is for the exclusive use of the individuals to which this e-mail is addressed and is to be reviewed and used exclusively for authorized company purposes. This transmission may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, disclosure, dissemination, distribution or taking of any action in reliance upon the contents of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you believe you may have received this electronic message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return email and delete or destroy the original message and/or any copy of it from your computer system and/or your files. Thank you. http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/ -- Art is anything you can get away with. -- Marshall McLuhan. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ken Alker Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 3:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea [...] Assume I have a non-POE switch with 24 RJ-45 (ethernet) ports. I design a 1U box that can be mounted just above/below the non-POE switch, call it a POEI (POE inserter). This box has 48 RJ-45 ports, 24 [...] Are POE switches expensive enough to warrant manufacturing above? If not, is there a case for not having to swap out all of ones existing switches? [...] Depends on what expensive means, and whether your switces are due for replacemtn or not. And what you intended to replace them with not counting PoE. The difference between Catalyst 2950-XL-24s and 3524-PRW-XL's is about $300. The difference on a large Catalyst switch is about $5-10/port if I recall correctly from my last deployment. Does something like this already exist for cheap? Yes. Several. If so, is it any good? Yes. Many work just fine. If so, does it need more features? To do what? It's called a mid-span power injector. The ones I've seen do that and nothing else. I'd say they are living up to their task. If not, would you buy something like this? If so, what features have I missed? If so, what is it worth? Google the rest of your answers. You're about 6 years too late to catch the first run of this train. Daryl G. Jurbala BMPC Network Operations Tel (NY): +1 917 477 0468 x235 Tel (MI): +1 616 608 0004 x235 Tel (UK): +44 208 792 6813 x235 Fax: +1 508 526 8500 INOC-DBA: 26412*DGJ PGP Key: http://www.introspect.net/pgp ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea
-Original Message- From: Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:23 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea snip http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/ -- Art is anything you can get away with. -- Marshall McLuhan. Martin, We have rules in place that remove it from emails to mailing lists, but I fat-fingered the digium address. Should be fixed now. Apologies, Kevin ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch(or hub); product idea
PoE, or 802.3af, uses a device detection routine to determine if the connected device needs power. The process, in greatly simplified terms, is as follows: 1. Detect link state 2. Send a pulse of a known frequency and intensity over the TX/RX pairs 3. Listen for reflection. 3a. No reflection- provide power 3b. Reflection- no power Devices that comply with 802.3af have filters designed into the TX/RX paths to block the detection pulses, thereby identifing themselves as able to use PoE. The detection process is passive on the device, since if it has no power it cannot 'signal' that it needs power. The process is repeated several times a second to ensure that a PoE is not unplugged and a non-PoE is plugged into it's place and damaged. Issues with midspans devices: The 24 port models are usually 12 port in reality. 12 in and 12 out. Sure there are 24 ports, but you are only going to power 12 devices. So in a larger environment they quickly get expensive. To make the whole situation more interesting the Cisco phones support not only 802.3af, but Cisco's own spin on inline power, which is similar in design to 802.3af. Dan -Original Message- From: Steven Critchfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 7:55 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch(or hub); product idea On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 08:02, Matteo Brancaleoni wrote: Hi. The POEI simply connects the four ethernet signals on each of its inputs (pins 1,2,3,6 on each) to the same pins on its corresponding outputs. Additionally, it supplies -48VDC (maybe selectable if there are other voltage needs) on the appropriate pins (also maybe selectable if different vendors use different wiring conventions for POE) of its outputs. and probably you're going to fry something on your lan. POE isn't simple power on the right pins, but is a sort of protocol. Really, on POE enabled devices (or injectors) you won't measure the DC with a tester, simply because POE on port X is enabled after a request by the device on that port. this is for mantaining compatibity with non POE devices. so you will need also something that detects the power request on each port and enables it. How does a non powered device request power? -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea
On Tuesday 20 Jan 2004 9:08 am, Michiel Betel wrote: Ken Alker wrote: Based on several threads I've read on this list, I assume that it would be handy to supply POE (power over ethernet) in an environment without having to purchase POE switches (assumed expensive) and abandon one's existing (familiar/custom/not-yet-expensed/etc.) switches/hubs. Assume I have a non-POE switch with 24 RJ-45 (ethernet) ports. I design a 1U box that can be mounted just above/below the non-POE switch, call it a POEI (POE inserter). This box has 48 RJ-45 ports, 24 inputs and 24 outputs. The end user removes all the ethernet cables connected to the existing switch and moves them to the outputs of the POEI. Next, the end user takes six-inch long ethernet cables and connects each (now vacant) port of the existing switch to the inputs of the POEI. Ken, The boxes youn describe are already being manufactured by amongst others: http://www.powerdsine.com/Products/Midspan/ I have no idea on pricing though.. Regards, Michiel If you're looking for a budget answer to POE, then I happened to notice these this morning in the misco catalogue (then got home to find this thread!) http://www.misco.co.uk/productinformation/44686/WW/NETGEAR_POWER_OVER_ETHERNET_ADAPTERS/index.htm They look like they're a tx-rx pair for use with their wireless access points, so I'm not sure if they will be standard POE implementations. Darren. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Darren Poulson - Unix Admin PGP Key at: http://www.22balmoralroad.net/~daz/pgp.key Poland has gun control. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Power Over Ethernet for *any* ethernet switch (or hub); product idea
[...] Assume I have a non-POE switch with 24 RJ-45 (ethernet)=20 ports. I design a=20 1U box that can be mounted just above/below the non-POE=20 switch, call it a=20 POEI (POE inserter). This box has 48 RJ-45 ports, 24=20 [...] Are POE switches expensive enough to warrant manufacturing=20 above? If not, is there a case for not having to swap out all=20 of ones existing=20 switches? [...] Depends on what expensive means, and whether your switces are due for replacemtn or not. And what you intended to replace them with not counting PoE. The difference between Catalyst 2950-XL-24s and 3524-PRW-XL's is about $300. HP Blade Switches (most of the ProCurve range) can take the new HP PoE blades (only just started shipping), which essentially upgrade your enterprise switch for a hell of a lot less. The difference on a large Catalyst switch is about $5-10/port if I recall correctly from my last deployment. It's peanuts really. Compare it to the cost of 48 power adaptors (virtually no IP phone is shipped with a PSU). Does something like this already exist for cheap? Yes. Several. Indeed - we even resell a great brand in the UK If so, is it any good? Yes. Many work just fine. If so, does it need more features? To do what? It's called a mid-span power injector. The ones I've seen do that and nothing else. I'd say they are living up to their task. The brand we resell has a number of remote management features - allowing you to remotely check on the health of each port, power drains, port status and has some remote tools for flashing power, and shutting power off to certain ports (like badly wired 10baseT devices that may be hard wired to each pin). Cisco also produces a simple unit called the PWR-PANEL that is just a basic injector with RPS options. If not, would you buy something like this? If so, what features have I missed? If so, what is it worth? Google the rest of your answers. You're about 6 years too late to catch the first run of this train. Ditto - we've already got them! Regards, Ad. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
