[Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM]]
-Forwarded Message- From: IEG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM] Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 03:04:42 -0700 The answer is a multiplexed terminal node controller (TNC) This was the very thought behind trunked communications around 800mhz. Gee ... there are a bunch of cell phone frequencies just above that and 3x800 = 2.4g and I'll leave the possibilities to the imaginative reader On 9/9/05, Derek Whitten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Forwarded Message- From: Mike M [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:26:09 -0400 On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 01:46:57PM +0100, Peter Bowyer wrote: On 09/09/05, Mike M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 07:28:34PM +, Mike Hemstock wrote: On Tuesday 06 September 2005 15:27, Mike M wrote: Imagine what a network of systems composed of Asterisk, ham radio, wifi, generators, batteries, and a reserve of fuel could have done for the Gulf coast. I have all of the components above except the ham radio. That's a very interesting idea. I've initiated a request to join my local amateur radio yahoo group. I'm going to see if I can enlist help to demonstrate this idea. The concept of combining VoIP and ham radio is by no means new - there are many skype-a-like systems around which are used as links or user access to the existing ham repeater network. I don't know of any using Asterisk, though. I think this architecture has value: PSTN---asterisk---voip---radio===+==radio--voip--asterisk---POTS +==radio--voip--asterisk---POTS +==radio--voip--asterisk---POTS and this too: voip svc prvdrvoip---radio===+==radio--voip--asterisk---POTS +==radio--voip--asterisk---POTS +==radio--voip--asterisk---POTS POTS at the emergency end is good because it's familiar, simple, cheap, and runs on a central power source. I don't know radio equipment so I don't know if the upstream radio can multiplex streams onto different frequencies. -- -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCS/GIT d-@ s+:+ a? C+++ BLHIS$ U+++ P+ L+++ !E W+++$ N++ o+ K w-- PS+++ PE@ Y+ PGP++ t 5? X !R tv+ b- DI-- D G e+ h r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBDIZwUzGZD3alCWIARAtiBAJ0X2WpPhVS8mI2mJwDek8z9FARjlgCgtIm2 NP7oXinBi3TteYRpKT1O4n0= =JbTB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCS/GIT d-@ s+:+ a? C+++ BLHIS$ U+++ P+ L+++ !E W+++$ N++ o+ K w-- PS+++ PE@ Y+ PGP++ t 5? X !R tv+ b- DI-- D G e+ h r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
On Sun, Sep 11, 2005 at 11:02:56AM -0700, Derek Whitten wrote: On Sun, 2005-09-11 at 08:44, Mike M wrote: On Sat, Sep 10, 2005 at 04:43:26PM -0700, Chris Travers wrote: Mark Phillips wrote: The suggestion that I have is for various areas to have dedicated civil emergency com units with strategic reserves of fuel (3-4 weeks worth), battery backups, etc. These units would have links (fiber, microwave, and/or satellite, better to pick 2 of 3) to areas outside expected disaster zones. Asterisk could then run across these links. (Sattelite links would best be POTS-type). Great suggestions but these are out of the realm of what a community of individuals can do. I'm thinking about what I as an individual am capable of. These are great suggestions and I believe that it IS in the realm of 'what a community of individuals can do' .. It just depends on the community of individuals involved with the project.. Not to disparage you excellent ideas, but me-myself-and-I cannot marshall a fiber optic link or microwave shot. I'm thinking along the lines of maybe 4 times a year, heading out to a remote area and calling people over a ham radio for practice. I envision this requiring coordination with several other people at most. Being ad hoc, adaptable, quick, mobile, and red-tape-less are my goals. my 0.02 Worth a good bit more than that, indeed. -- Mike ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
On Sun, Sep 11, 2005 at 02:45:47PM -0700, Michael D Schelin wrote: BUT, let me tell you about how bad the southern CA. radio site owners are becoming. We had a 4 day outage at a very large site where one of my radios is located. None of them care anymore about backup power. This happened this past week. We took up our own Generator because the site owner (a national site company) won't maintain an old one. My friend (a microwave isp ) fixed the site owners by adding oil and a new battery. That will take us out! Over the weekend I heard an account of the communications breakdown in New Orleans. Ham radio effectiveness was diminished because of a shortage of pre-positioned generators. What I've learned from this thread is that integrating Asterisk and ham radio is feasible and potentially useful. I also learned that essential infrastructure - repeaters - are softening assets. What's more, google hits for asterisk ham have increased significantly and become useful. This thread comes up #3 on Google. Thanks everyone. -- Mike ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
Mike M wrote: On Sun, Sep 11, 2005 at 02:45:47PM -0700, Michael D Schelin wrote: BUT, let me tell you about how bad the southern CA. radio site owners are becoming. We had a 4 day outage at a very large site where one of my radios is located. None of them care anymore about backup power. This happened this past week. We took up our own Generator because the site owner (a national site company) won't maintain an old one. My friend (a microwave isp ) fixed the site owners by adding oil and a new battery. That will take us out! Over the weekend I heard an account of the communications breakdown in New Orleans. Ham radio effectiveness was diminished because of a shortage of pre-positioned generators. What I've learned from this thread is that integrating Asterisk and ham radio is feasible and potentially useful. I also learned that essential infrastructure - repeaters - are softening assets. What's more, google hits for asterisk ham have increased significantly and become useful. This thread comes up #3 on Google. Thanks everyone. -- Mark, G7LTT/KC2ENI Randolph, NJ http://www.g7ltt.com ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
On Sat, Sep 10, 2005 at 04:43:26PM -0700, Chris Travers wrote: Mark Phillips wrote: The suggestion that I have is for various areas to have dedicated civil emergency com units with strategic reserves of fuel (3-4 weeks worth), battery backups, etc. These units would have links (fiber, microwave, and/or satellite, better to pick 2 of 3) to areas outside expected disaster zones. Asterisk could then run across these links. (Sattelite links would best be POTS-type). The point is to a disaster-tolerant communications infrastructure which could then be used to to provide additional communications services to the relief workers. With various point to point wireless capabilities, it might be possible to use them to provide cell service to relief workers etc through the installation of GSM microcells (which could be brought in after the fact). See where I am going? Great suggestions but these are out of the realm of what a community of individuals can do. I'm thinking about what I as an individual am capable of. -- Mike ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
On Sun, 2005-09-11 at 08:44, Mike M wrote: On Sat, Sep 10, 2005 at 04:43:26PM -0700, Chris Travers wrote: Mark Phillips wrote: The suggestion that I have is for various areas to have dedicated civil emergency com units with strategic reserves of fuel (3-4 weeks worth), battery backups, etc. These units would have links (fiber, microwave, and/or satellite, better to pick 2 of 3) to areas outside expected disaster zones. Asterisk could then run across these links. (Sattelite links would best be POTS-type). The point is to a disaster-tolerant communications infrastructure which could then be used to to provide additional communications services to the relief workers. With various point to point wireless capabilities, it might be possible to use them to provide cell service to relief workers etc through the installation of GSM microcells (which could be brought in after the fact). See where I am going? Great suggestions but these are out of the realm of what a community of individuals can do. I'm thinking about what I as an individual am capable of. These are great suggestions and I believe that it IS in the realm of 'what a community of individuals can do' .. It just depends on the community of individuals involved with the project.. :-0 my 0.02 -- -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCS/GIT d-@ s+:+ a? C+++ BLHIS$ U+++ P+ L+++ !E W+++$ N++ o+ K w-- PS+++ PE@ Y+ PGP++ t 5? X !R tv+ b- DI-- D G e+ h r+++ y --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
Michael D Schelin wrote: The two best forms of communications in a real disaster and one always has been is #1 Ham radio. and #2 satellite telephone. Ham radio is global and has proven time and time again to be the most reliable when the infrastructer has been damaged. The U.S government is the biggest user of satellite telephones which is also becoming a valuable tool again when the communications infrastructure is down. It would be nice If Asterisk could be used but in this case but it's useless. People are displaced and most of the communications infrastructure for the city is unusable. I don't mean all of the telco's systems. It's the flood that wiped out most home and business systems. For us, The best thing that a provider can do is to have redundant servers in different cities. This should remind us all how fragile our lives are. While I agree with your points, I think I was thinking along different lines. Your points are useful particularly for mobile units. This is important because you have to have some form of mobile communications when you are doing disaster relief. I am not saying that my suggestion would relieve the need for Ham radio and Satellite telephone. But rather that this would allow you to do relatively quick infrastructure building to fixed locations thus freeing up Ham operators to do what they need to do-- offer mobile communications. The idea here would be that shelters, etc. could then use various line-of-site wireleass connections to set up Asterisk and that these would not have to be moved frequently. Yes, it takes more electricity, but remember what I said about strategic reserves of fuel for generators? I was largely reacting to Mark Phillips' point about Ham radios being in short supply in any sort of disaster. The point is not to replace ham radio but rather to maximize the potential of what can be done with the existing number of operators. Best Wishes, Chris Travers Metatron Technology Consulting begin:vcard fn:Chris Travers n:Travers;Chris email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
Time and time again, emergency action drills take place in cities to target where their weaknesses are in "crisis" handling. Usually they involve planes crashing or explosions (mock of course). Obviously they were never prepared for this sort of disaster in their recovery plan. I've participated in a few ARES/RACES drills and have to say that much could be done to improve upon the "HAM" infrastructure. Most of the time, communications is coordinated through 1 repeater system. When this repeater goes down, of course people would switch comms to another but in a case like this, where all the repeater systems go down except for maybe one, there needs to be a better plan. In Amateur Satellite Service, these orbiting "Repeaters" employ a system called RUDAK where a chunk of spectrum is repeated. Obviously this isn't feasible in terrestrial repeaters but they dohave the ability to turn off radios and switch bands at will depending on operating conditions. With software controlled radio and Asterisk, the repeater system could be made to be more resilient to disaster by linking to other repeater systems via radio where it could connect outward. If you figure the overhead of a repeater's transmitter and receiver plus the controller, replaceing the controller with an asterisk based unit (integration) would make more sense as it would give the repeater system much more capabilities in the same footprint and power. Additionally, these repeater systems are located on hilltops with other radio systems so they should have emergency power available (if you've ever been to a hilltop repeater site, you'll know what I mean). I think the biggest thing that hurts ham radio's ability to react to a crisis is the lack of equipment and operators. Most of the traffic we pass is "Health and Welfare" with "Logistics" being the second to it. What defeats this is that in a disaster where local/high band long haul capabilities are diminished, is simply the one repeater that is functional because everything is squeezed onto one VHF/UHF repeater. Where I could see thing being improved? Installation of 802.11b/g WLAN under Part 97. It would allow for more users into the system, there are less hardware and power components and allows the system to be dynamically configured. Asterisk could play a huge role then as it's made for IP based traffic and could re-route in a split second. -Don From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael D SchelinSent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:20 PMTo: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial DiscussionSubject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM The two best forms of communications in a real disaster and one always has been is #1 Ham radio. and #2 satellite telephone. Ham radio is global and has proven time and time again to be the most reliable when the infrastructer has been damaged. The U.S government is the biggest user of satellite telephones which is also becoming a valuable tool again when the communications infrastructure is down. It would be nice If Asterisk could be used but in this case but it's useless. People are displaced and most of the communications infrastructure for the city is unusable. I don't mean all of the telco's systems. It's the flood that wiped out most home and business systems. For us, The best thing that a provider can do is to have redundant servers in different cities. This should remind us all how fragile our lives are. Chris Travers wrote: Mark Phillips wrote: Hold on here folks, I'm guessing that the original poster of this thread isn't a member of his local RAyNet team. Whilst I don't profess to be an expert at this I have been doing emergency radio for quite some time and have seen service at the Lockerbie bombing, Docklands bomb, Ground Zero (I'm sure I'm a terrorist target y'know - they seem to follow me everywhere) and soon I'll be in Louisiana. In all of these events the KISS principle must and does prevail. We need a system that is a simple and energy efficient as possible. Building a network of * servers and Wi-Fi links is all very well but how are you going to power them? These are excellent points. I have a few interesting suggestions here The first is that the only obstacle to any sort of longer-range point to point line is merely power. This is true whether you are talking HAM or fiberoptics. Note that if you have the power, it would take disruption of the physical line to disrupt a fiber line. Note that DirectNIC in New Orleans remained operational without *any* downtime or loss of connectivity with the rest of the world. The suggestion that I have is for various areas to have dedicated civil emergency com units with strategic reserves of fuel (3-4 weeks worth), battery backups, etc. These units would have li
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
Don, I agree with you on many fronts. I come from a radio background and here in southern cal unless we fall into the sea nothing will take out all of the communications here including ham because we are not in low lying flat land and were too diversified, over 150 miles and as many mountain top sites. BUT, let me tell you about how bad the southern CA. radio site owners are becoming. We had a 4 day outage at a very large site where one of my radios is located. None of them care anymore about backup power. This happened this past week. We took up our own Generator because the site owner (a national site company) won't maintain an old one. My friend (a microwave isp ) fixed the site owners by adding oil and a new battery. That will take us out! Don Fanning wrote: Time and time again, emergency action drills take place in cities to target where their weaknesses are in "crisis" handling. Usually they involve planes crashing or explosions (mock of course). Obviously they were never prepared for this sort of disaster in their recovery plan. I've participated in a few ARES/RACES drills and have to say that much could be done to improve upon the "HAM" infrastructure. Most of the time, communications is coordinated through 1 repeater system. When this repeater goes down, of course people would switch comms to another but in a case like this, where all the repeater systems go down except for maybe one, there needs to be a better plan. In Amateur Satellite Service, these orbiting "Repeaters" employ a system called RUDAK where a chunk of spectrum is repeated. Obviously this isn't feasible in terrestrial repeaters but they dohave the ability to turn off radios and switch bands at will depending on operating conditions. With software controlled radio and Asterisk, the repeater system could be made to be more resilient to disaster by linking to other repeater systems via radio where it could connect outward. If you figure the overhead of a repeater's transmitter and receiver plus the controller, replaceing the controller with an asterisk based unit (integration) would make more sense as it would give the repeater system much more capabilities in the same footprint and power. Additionally, these repeater systems are located on hilltops with other radio systems so they should have emergency power available (if you've ever been to a hilltop repeater site, you'll know what I mean). I think the biggest thing that hurts ham radio's ability to react to a crisis is the lack of equipment and operators. Most of the traffic we pass is "Health and Welfare" with "Logistics" being the second to it. What defeats this is that in a disaster where local/high band long haul capabilities are diminished, is simply the one repeater that is functional because everything is squeezed onto one VHF/UHF repeater. Where I could see thing being improved? Installation of 802.11b/g WLAN under Part 97. It would allow for more users into the system, there are less hardware and power components and allows the system to be dynamically configured. Asterisk could play a huge role then as it's made for IP based traffic and could re-route in a split second. -Don From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Michael D Schelin Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:20 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM The two best forms of communications in a real disaster and one always has been is #1 Ham radio. and #2 satellite telephone. Ham radio is global and has proven time and time again to be the most reliable when the infrastructer has been damaged. The U.S government is the biggest user of satellite telephones which is also becoming a valuable tool again when the communications infrastructure is down. It would be nice If Asterisk could be used but in this case but it's useless. People are displaced and most of the communications infrastructure for the city is unusable. I don't mean all of the telco's systems. It's the flood that wiped out most home and business systems. For us, The best thing that a provider can do is to have redundant servers in different cities. This should remind us all how fragile our lives are. Chris Travers wrote: Mark Phillips wrote: Hold on here folks, I'm guessing that the original poster of this thread isn't a member of his local RAyNet team. Whilst I don't profess to be an expert at this I have been doing emergency radio for quite some time and have seen service at the Lockerbie bombing, Docklands bomb, Ground Zero (I'm sure I'm a terrorist target y'know - they seem to follow me everywhere) and soon I'll be in Louisiana. In all of these events the KISS principle must and does prevail. We need a system that is a simple and energy efficient as possible.
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
Just a shot in the dark here. I bought this unit http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=5792377951rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AITrd=1a couple months ago hoping to connect it to an * system for experimentation. I am a HAM n00b. I can found no documentation on this unit anywhere. Does anyone know where to start? I joined a local HAM club but have not had any time to go and pick brains. I am afraid to really even plug it in until I know what I am doing and have a call sign and everything so the FCC does't kick in my door. I did plug it in for a minute and there were no lights or anything so I not even sure it works. Anyone have any links or ideas? Thanks, Steve - Original Message - From: Don Fanning To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:37 PM Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM Time and time again, emergency action drills take place in cities to target where their weaknesses are in "crisis" handling. Usually they involve planes crashing or explosions (mock of course). Obviously they were never prepared for this sort of disaster in their recovery plan. I've participated in a few ARES/RACES drills and have to say that much could be done to improve upon the "HAM" infrastructure. Most of the time, communications is coordinated through 1 repeater system. When this repeater goes down, of course people would switch comms to another but in a case like this, where all the repeater systems go down except for maybe one, there needs to be a better plan. In Amateur Satellite Service, these orbiting "Repeaters" employ a system called RUDAK where a chunk of spectrum is repeated. Obviously this isn't feasible in terrestrial repeaters but they dohave the ability to turn off radios and switch bands at will depending on operating conditions. With software controlled radio and Asterisk, the repeater system could be made to be more resilient to disaster by linking to other repeater systems via radio where it could connect outward. If you figure the overhead of a repeater's transmitter and receiver plus the controller, replaceing the controller with an asterisk based unit (integration) would make more sense as it would give the repeater system much more capabilities in the same footprint and power. Additionally, these repeater systems are located on hilltops with other radio systems so they should have emergency power available (if you've ever been to a hilltop repeater site, you'll know what I mean). I think the biggest thing that hurts ham radio's ability to react to a crisis is the lack of equipment and operators. Most of the traffic we pass is "Health and Welfare" with "Logistics" being the second to it. What defeats this is that in a disaster where local/high band long haul capabilities are diminished, is simply the one repeater that is functional because everything is squeezed onto one VHF/UHF repeater. Where I could see thing being improved? Installation of 802.11b/g WLAN under Part 97. It would allow for more users into the system, there are less hardware and power components and allows the system to be dynamically configured. Asterisk could play a huge role then as it's made for IP based traffic and could re-route in a split second. -Don From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael D SchelinSent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:20 PMTo: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial DiscussionSubject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM The two best forms of communications in a real disaster and one always has been is #1 Ham radio. and #2 satellite telephone. Ham radio is global and has proven time and time again to be the most reliable when the infrastructer has been damaged. The U.S government is the biggest user of satellite telephones which is also becoming a valuable tool again when the communications infrastructure is down. It would be nice If Asterisk could be used but in this case but it's useless. People are displaced and most of the communications infrastructure for the city is unusable. I don't mean all of the telco's systems. It's the flood that wiped out most home and business systems. For us, The best thing that a provider can do is to have redundant servers in different cities. This should remind us all how fragile our lives are. Chris Travers wrote: Mark Phillips wrote: Hold on here folks, I'm guessing that the original poster of this thread isn't a member of his local RAyNet team. Whilst I don't profess to be an expert at this I have been doing emergency radio for quite some time and have seen service at the Lockerbie
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
I think the biggest thing that hurts ham radio's ability to react to a crisis is the lack of equipment and operators. Most of the traffic we pass is Health and Welfare with Logistics being the second to it. You might be interested to take a listen to the latest ARRL News - they give a count of Priority traffic messages passed for Katrina... http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter/audio/ The site is ARRL and it's their ARRL Letter feed to be presented on repeaters. The ARES response to Katrina articles have the info I'm referring to. Sorry for the OT addition to the thread but I find it worth mentioning. Also, for my two cents I'll toss in that the first thing I thought of when someone mentioned using Asterisk with Ham was to get a Laptop with a WiFi connection, Asterisk and a radio interface on scene to provide comm links. 73 de NY5I Hatton Humphrey ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
I can understand that. I'm a KL7 call so comms could mean the matter of someone getting picked up or freezing to death. It troubles me that radio site owners (the ones who hold the pink slip on the tower and hilltop) are not providing power. In AK, most of these sites are multihomed with fed, state and local radio systems so money is provided to maintain backup power. That being said, in that given area, maybe taking a cue from the Emergency Call boxes along the I-5 and I-15 and use solar panels to charge a battery backup system. That plus some power-stingy equipment could maintain a reliable radio network. Knowing that all of us on the west coast are just || close to the big one when sites like this loose power to the cellular equipment, guess who's still going to be operating? :) (not that they would be working well anyways since lines jam up) Anyways. A resiliant recovery plan that has been practiced and works will trump a "all-hands" effort anyday. -Don From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael D SchelinSent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 2:46 PMTo: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial DiscussionSubject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM Don, I agree with you on many fronts. I come from a radio background and here in southern cal unless we fall into the sea nothing will take out all of the communications here including ham because we are not in low lying flat land and were too diversified, over 150 miles and as many mountain top sites. BUT,let me tell you about how bad the southern CA. radio site owners are becoming. We had a 4 day outage at a very large site where one of my radios is located. None of them care anymore about backup power. This happened this past week. We took up our own Generator because the site owner (a national site company) won't maintain an old one. My friend (a microwave isp ) fixed the site owners by adding oil and a new battery. That will take us out!Don Fanning wrote: Time and time again, emergency action drills take place in cities to target where their weaknesses are in "crisis" handling. Usually they involve planes crashing or explosions (mock of course). Obviously they were never prepared for this sort of disaster in their recovery plan. I've participated in a few ARES/RACES drills and have to say that much could be done to improve upon the "HAM" infrastructure. Most of the time, communications is coordinated through 1 repeater system. When this repeater goes down, of course people would switch comms to another but in a case like this, where all the repeater systems go down except for maybe one, there needs to be a better plan. In Amateur Satellite Service, these orbiting "Repeaters" employ a system called RUDAK where a chunk of spectrum is repeated. Obviously this isn't feasible in terrestrial repeaters but they dohave the ability to turn off radios and switch bands at will depending on operating conditions. With software controlled radio and Asterisk, the repeater system could be made to be more resilient to disaster by linking to other repeater systems via radio where it could connect outward. If you figure the overhead of a repeater's transmitter and receiver plus the controller, replaceing the controller with an asterisk based unit (integration) would make more sense as it would give the repeater system much more capabilities in the same footprint and power. Additionally, these repeater systems are located on hilltops with other radio systems so they should have emergency power available (if you've ever been to a hilltop repeater site, you'll know what I mean). I think the biggest thing that hurts ham radio's ability to react to a crisis is the lack of equipment and operators. Most of the traffic we pass is "Health and Welfare" with "Logistics" being the second to it. What defeats this is that in a disaster where local/high band long haul capabilities are diminished, is simply the one repeater that is functional because everything is squeezed onto one VHF/UHF repeater. Where I could see thing being improved? Installation of 802.11b/g WLAN under Part 97. It would allow for more users into the system, there are less hardware and power components and allows the system to be dynamically configured. Asterisk could play a huge role then as it's made for IP based traffic and could re-route in a split second. -Don From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Michael D SchelinSent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:20 PMTo: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial DiscussionSubject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAMThe two best forms of communications in a real disaster and one always has been is #1 Ham radio
RE: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
Try contacting the repeater trustee for http://www.wa3key.com/blura.html. They have a picture of one on their site with it lit up. You will need to recrystal the radio to a proper TX/RX pair for 70cm. However, depending on your area, you should contact your local repeater coordnator so you don't step on anyone's toes (especially the case in So.Cal ;) Looks like you can order crystals from: http://www.icmfg.com/motorola.html. And there are plenty of links associated with this hardware. Google is your friend. As for interfacing it to *, you'll need a phone patch adapter. You could purchase one or build one but you'll need to get more information on how to do such. Once you have the repeater up and running, you also need to setup * to see the phone patch/radio interface as a radio. This may require a controller card. (see the voip-info.org wiki) And... if you're going to go that far, consider enrolling into the echoirlp project. It's a VoIP oriented repeater link system that uses the internet as it's conduit. By Part 97 rule, the system must be protected from unlicensed use so interfacing with asterisk would require password protection and you as the repeater owner would be liable for any misuse of the system. 73 de Don From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve TotaroSent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 6:07 PMTo: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial DiscussionSubject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM Just a shot in the dark here. I bought this unit http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=5792377951rd=1sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AITrd=1a couple months ago hoping to connect it to an * system for experimentation. I am a HAM n00b. I can found no documentation on this unit anywhere. Does anyone know where to start? I joined a local HAM club but have not had any time to go and pick brains. I am afraid to really even plug it in until I know what I am doing and have a call sign and everything so the FCC does't kick in my door. I did plug it in for a minute and there were no lights or anything so I not even sure it works. Anyone have any links or ideas? Thanks, Steve - Original Message - From: Don Fanning To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:37 PM Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM Time and time again, emergency action drills take place in cities to target where their weaknesses are in "crisis" handling. Usually they involve planes crashing or explosions (mock of course). Obviously they were never prepared for this sort of disaster in their recovery plan. I've participated in a few ARES/RACES drills and have to say that much could be done to improve upon the "HAM" infrastructure. Most of the time, communications is coordinated through 1 repeater system. When this repeater goes down, of course people would switch comms to another but in a case like this, where all the repeater systems go down except for maybe one, there needs to be a better plan. In Amateur Satellite Service, these orbiting "Repeaters" employ a system called RUDAK where a chunk of spectrum is repeated. Obviously this isn't feasible in terrestrial repeaters but they dohave the ability to turn off radios and switch bands at will depending on operating conditions. With software controlled radio and Asterisk, the repeater system could be made to be more resilient to disaster by linking to other repeater systems via radio where it could connect outward. If you figure the overhead of a repeater's transmitter and receiver plus the controller, replaceing the controller with an asterisk based unit (integration) would make more sense as it would give the repeater system much more capabilities in the same footprint and power. Additionally, these repeater systems are located on hilltops with other radio systems so they should have emergency power available (if you've ever been to a hilltop repeater site, you'll know what I mean). I think the biggest thing that hurts ham radio's ability to react to a crisis is the lack of equipment and operators. Most of the traffic we pass is "Health and Welfare" with "Logistics" being the second to it. What defeats this is that in a disaster where local/high band long haul capabilities are diminished, is simply the one repeater that is functional because everything is squeezed onto one VHF/UHF repeater. Where I could see thing being improved? Installation of 802.11b/g WLAN under Part 97. It would allow for more users into the system, there are less hardware and power components and allows the system to be dynamically configured. Asterisk could play a huge role then as it's made for IP based traffic and could re-rou
RE: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
Priority traffic by ARRL standards would fall into both of these categories. What they are saying is that if someone is in a area where a ham is operating and needs to get someone hauled out via emergency services, priority traffic would take precedence over normal traffic. Not quite a Mayday situation but close to. Hams have come through for the most part but since we're way off topic, it boils down to poor planning on the emergency coordinator for a given town/county/city/state. Let's face it. When FEMA rolls in, there's no question about their communications. If they can run it through commercial terrestrial providers, fine. Otherwise, they have satellites phones that take less than a few minutes to set up (if that). Sure it's expensive to joe smith. But we're talking about the government here where justification always outweighs cost. That being said. Asterisk has tremendous value to the HAM community. People have always been happy to get a phone call from a serviceman at sea (using MARS) or using autopatches to order pizza's. I don't think that part is argued. The question is how it could be helpful? Asterisk Conferences - Add the ability for people who are HAMS to log into a protected chat room and communicate to both equipped and non equipped hams (using cell phones). Emergency services could teleconference a Public Radio Service repeater and monitor the conference to coordinate responses with lower overhead (again using COTS equipment). Asterisk Autopatching - This would allow people to setup Health and Welfare phone booths for people to call their loves ones and coordinate their return to a normal life. One feature that I see really lacking in Asterisk however is the ability to outdial from a teleconference to three-way them into a conference as well as moderator functions. Of course these features are in Alliance teleconferences but would be nice to add in as well. Cepstral Integration - Imagine if your car was stolen and it was equipped with APRS. You could write a script that would read lon/lat, do the map lookup and feed back location information every 10 seconds to assist in recovery. All it would take is 3-waying into the asterisk, logging in and having * read back the information to emergency response. The applications are endless with a system like this. -Don -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C. Hatton Humphrey Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 6:23 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM I think the biggest thing that hurts ham radio's ability to react to a crisis is the lack of equipment and operators. Most of the traffic we pass is Health and Welfare with Logistics being the second to it. You might be interested to take a listen to the latest ARRL News - they give a count of Priority traffic messages passed for Katrina... http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter/audio/ The site is ARRL and it's their ARRL Letter feed to be presented on repeaters. The ARES response to Katrina articles have the info I'm referring to. Sorry for the OT addition to the thread but I find it worth mentioning. Also, for my two cents I'll toss in that the first thing I thought of when someone mentioned using Asterisk with Ham was to get a Laptop with a WiFi connection, Asterisk and a radio interface on scene to provide comm links. 73 de NY5I Hatton Humphrey ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE : [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
Hello, Asterisk is on the air : http://www.hamwlan.net http://192.168.1.1/HamWlan.htm (see the second drawing) 73 ! F6HQZ, Francois BERGERET, France. -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Mike Hemstock Envoyé : jeudi 8 septembre 2005 21:29 À : Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Objet : Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM On Tuesday 06 September 2005 15:27, Mike M wrote: The disaster in the Gulf coast and the less than optimal initial response suggests to me that citizens must shoulder more responsibility for emergency management. Communications loss must have played a large role in the failures that occurred. I can't help but wonder if there are fewer ham radio operators today and that if there were more, maybe they could make a difference in future emergency situations. Imagine what a network of systems composed of Asterisk, ham radio, wifi, generators, batteries, and a reserve of fuel could have done for the Gulf coast. I have all of the components above except the ham radio. I suspect there are some folks on this list that have already implemented such a system. If so, I would like to read about what they have done so I can develop a plan to participate in this network if one exists. There's not much on google for asterisk ham. http://sourceforge.net/projects/hamlib/ http://www.radioadv.com/default.htm Thanks, That's a very interesting idea. I believe radio ametures who have a radio in their car don't have to pay road tax in Canada as they one provided emergency comms during a civil emergency. Mike. 2E1HFW ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
And as for those AA* stations ;-} I was on HF the other day and was told to clear out of the frequency I was on because I didn't have an Extra Class call sign. I looked up the guy trying to chase me away: he was a General. Bloody idiot. Mark, KC2ENI Randolph, NJ Jonathan k. Creasy wrote: Yeahit's better to be a KC...we just hang out in the back and watch everyone else be wrong out loud. -Jonathan KC9FQT -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Bowyer Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:45 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM On 08/09/05, Mark Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bloddy 2E's; always wrong. Mark G7LTT/KC2ENI I know some G7s who are occasionally wrong, too :-) Peter G4MJS / 9M6BAA -- Mark, G7LTT/KC2ENI Randolph, NJ http://www.g7ltt.com ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: RE : [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
On Sat, Sep 10, 2005 at 09:08:53AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Asterisk is on the air : http://www.hamwlan.net http://192.168.1.1/HamWlan.htm (see the second drawing) 73 ! F6HQZ, Francois BERGERET, France. Excellent. So you have SIP/IAX clients connecting to a router over HAM radio links, and the router is on a WLAN with an Asterisk box ( 44.151.177.66 : serveur Asterisk (PBX VoIP : SIP/H.323/IAX))? What sort of bandwidth is available on the hamwlan? I tried several different character encoding choices and I just couldn't get the proper representaions for the characters on the web page. Can you recommend an appropriate character set for Firefox for French? Babelfish will probably work better if I used the correct character set. Thanks, -- Mike ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE : RE : [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
Oops ! Sorry ! It seems that I have forgotten to replace my french characters as é by the correct sequence eacute; as exemple. I have just modify this page and you can probably read it now (but it is in french only for now, I promess to translate this pages this next cold season). HamWlan is now an old project from about 3 years old. This was to preserve our sub-band shared on the 2.4 GHz by ISM band and UHF HAM at WiFi market operture. This could be a nice opportunity to test high speed radio or HAM services as we have never seen until now (on HAM bands). It is also to use our 44.x.x.x/8 IP addresses class reserved to our HAM community. I have started some VPN under IPSec to separate public traffic from HAM's traffic as lawyers said in near all the countries. This HAM's hotspots are connected as this through Internet if not possible by radio link. To attract HAMs to join this fun wireless project, I have added some classical services encountered on Internet : SMTP/POP, H.323 video conference and Jabber servers. I have also started an IP gateway between HF 7 MHz band and my IP local network. As I am self training on Asterisk from monthes and use one at my home for my own private telephone lines, I have think that it could be nice to connect my Asterisk box to my HamWlan network (without any telephone access because it is forbidden in France). I am just starting to tell to some HAMs to join me and start some experimentations to see if Asterisk could be interesting for HAM use. HAMs are already using some kind of Internet VoIP as Skype or Echolink are (Echolink is a HAM network connecting people and radio equipments). With Asterisk, we can use conference rooms (mine is [EMAIL PROTECTED]) or to share an UHF repeater linked to a room or a specific number. I have not enougth bandwith as I desire... I have two providers and the best is about 2.6 Mbs download and 650 kbs upload. The ideal way could be to place an asterisk in a ITSP white room with bigger bandwidth, but it is a dream only :-) For now, it is only the beginning, and I play to see if any HAM's interest. Best Regards, 73's from F6HQZ, Francois BERGERET, France. -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Mike M Envoyé : samedi 10 septembre 2005 22:22 À : asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Objet : Re: RE : [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM On Sat, Sep 10, 2005 at 09:08:53AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Asterisk is on the air : http://www.hamwlan.net http://192.168.1.1/HamWlan.htm (see the second drawing) 73 ! F6HQZ, Francois BERGERET, France. Excellent. So you have SIP/IAX clients connecting to a router over HAM radio links, and the router is on a WLAN with an Asterisk box ( 44.151.177.66 : serveur Asterisk (PBX VoIP : SIP/H.323/IAX))? What sort of bandwidth is available on the hamwlan? I tried several different character encoding choices and I just couldn't get the proper representaions for the characters on the web page. Can you recommend an appropriate character set for Firefox for French? Babelfish will probably work better if I used the correct character set. Thanks, -- Mike ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: RE : RE : [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
On Sat, Sep 10, 2005 at 11:18:09PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oops ! Sorry ! It seems that I have forgotten to replace my french characters as ? by the correct sequence eacute; as exemple. I have just modify this page and you can probably read it now (but it is in french only for now, I promess to translate this pages this next cold season). I think I need to research character sets and possible load some that I do not have. I have started some VPN under IPSec to separate public traffic from HAM's traffic as lawyers said in near all the countries. HAM traffic must not be mixed with Internet? As I am self training on Asterisk from monthes and use one at my home for my own private telephone lines, I have think that it could be nice to connect my Asterisk box to my HamWlan network (without any telephone access because it is forbidden in France). Interesting. It's OK to have VoIP over Wi-Fi, and VoIP over HAM, but not PSTN over HAM? Of course, you could enable POTS on your ASterisk box and simulate PSTN calls over HAM. Maybe you could get permission to demonstrate by contacting some disaster relief agencies to show them some possibilities. I am just starting to tell to some HAMs to join me and start some experimentations to see if Asterisk could be interesting for HAM use. HAMs are already using some kind of Internet VoIP as Skype or Echolink are (Echolink is a HAM network connecting people and radio equipments). With Asterisk, we can use conference rooms (mine is [EMAIL PROTECTED]) or to share an UHF repeater linked to a room or a specific number. I have not enougth bandwith as I desire... I have two providers and the best is about 2.6 Mbs download and 650 kbs upload. The ideal way could be to place an asterisk in a ITSP white room with bigger bandwidth, but it is a dream only :-) What is your bandwidth on the HAM radio links? Is that even a good question? For now, it is only the beginning, and I play to see if any HAM's interest. Please keep the list and/or me personally informed. I have a keen interest in what you are doing. -- Mike ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
Mark Phillips wrote: Hold on here folks, I'm guessing that the original poster of this thread isn't a member of his local RAyNet team. Whilst I don't profess to be an expert at this I have been doing emergency radio for quite some time and have seen service at the Lockerbie bombing, Docklands bomb, Ground Zero (I'm sure I'm a terrorist target y'know - they seem to follow me everywhere) and soon I'll be in Louisiana. In all of these events the KISS principle must and does prevail. We need a system that is a simple and energy efficient as possible. Building a network of * servers and Wi-Fi links is all very well but how are you going to power them? These are excellent points. I have a few interesting suggestions here The first is that the only obstacle to any sort of longer-range point to point line is merely power. This is true whether you are talking HAM or fiberoptics. Note that if you have the power, it would take disruption of the physical line to disrupt a fiber line. Note that DirectNIC in New Orleans remained operational without *any* downtime or loss of connectivity with the rest of the world. The suggestion that I have is for various areas to have dedicated civil emergency com units with strategic reserves of fuel (3-4 weeks worth), battery backups, etc. These units would have links (fiber, microwave, and/or satellite, better to pick 2 of 3) to areas outside expected disaster zones. Asterisk could then run across these links. (Sattelite links would best be POTS-type). The point is to a disaster-tolerant communications infrastructure which could then be used to to provide additional communications services to the relief workers. With various point to point wireless capabilities, it might be possible to use them to provide cell service to relief workers etc through the installation of GSM microcells (which could be brought in after the fact). See where I am going? Generators require fuel which is always in short supply and batteries die out quickly. Adding Ham Radio to the picture doesn't really add much when you are trying to do something like a * network. The radio gear just isn't designed to integrate with the * server. Ham radio is being used down in the Katrina affected area with great results for both emergency and heath/welfare related traffic. They are using both phone (that's when one talks in to the radio) and data modes and can be heard all over the 75 and 40 meter bands here in the US. Power for most of these stations comes from batteries they loot (with Police approval) from abandoned cars or a combo of solar and batteries. Many stations are only hear on the air after dark so that they can put as much sunlight into their batteries as possible. Yes, electricity is available in some places either all day or across the peak hours (allowing the workmen to restore power to other areas). Yes, there are radio to phone interconnects but these really are a single phone to a single radio. Think of it as a cordless phone in that the radio user can be anywhere within reach of the base station. Such technologies, whilst legal here in the US, may not be legal elsewhere. When last at home (UK) I was not able to connect my radio to the phone system by law (this may have changed recently - not been home for 8 years). Many countries have such restrictions and as we saw during the Tsunami, rules don't get relaxed just because there's a panic on. Without question a phone system would be much better than a radio station. As such I'll be taking a portable * server I've built, all the IP hard phones I can find and 5 DirectTV style Internet systems. How do IP hardphones work with satellite internet? I always thought people had real trouble getting them to work at all. Best Wishes, Chris Travers Metatron Tecnology Consulting begin:vcard fn:Chris Travers n:Travers;Chris email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
The two best forms of communications in a real disaster and one always has been is #1 Ham radio. and #2 satellite telephone. Ham radio is global and has proven time and time again to be the most reliable when the infrastructer has been damaged. The U.S government is the biggest user of satellite telephones which is also becoming a valuable tool again when the communications infrastructure is down. It would be nice If Asterisk could be used but in this case but it's useless. People are displaced and most of the communications infrastructure for the city is unusable. I don't mean all of the telco's systems. It's the flood that wiped out most home and business systems. For us, The best thing that a provider can do is to have redundant servers in different cities. This should remind us all how fragile our lives are. Chris Travers wrote: Mark Phillips wrote: Hold on here folks, I'm guessing that the original poster of this thread isn't a member of his local RAyNet team. Whilst I don't profess to be an expert at this I have been doing emergency radio for quite some time and have seen service at the Lockerbie bombing, Docklands bomb, Ground Zero (I'm sure I'm a terrorist target y'know - they seem to follow me everywhere) and soon I'll be in Louisiana. In all of these events the KISS principle must and does prevail. We need a system that is a simple and energy efficient as possible. Building a network of * servers and Wi-Fi links is all very well but how are you going to power them? These are excellent points. I have a few interesting suggestions here The first is that the only obstacle to any sort of longer-range point to point line is merely power. This is true whether you are talking HAM or fiberoptics. Note that if you have the power, it would take disruption of the physical line to disrupt a fiber line. Note that DirectNIC in New Orleans remained operational without *any* downtime or loss of connectivity with the rest of the world. The suggestion that I have is for various areas to have dedicated civil emergency com units with strategic reserves of fuel (3-4 weeks worth), battery backups, etc. These units would have links (fiber, microwave, and/or satellite, better to pick 2 of 3) to areas outside expected disaster zones. Asterisk could then run across these links. (Sattelite links would best be POTS-type). The point is to a disaster-tolerant communications infrastructure which could then be used to to provide additional communications services to the relief workers. With various point to point wireless capabilities, it might be possible to use them to provide cell service to relief workers etc through the installation of GSM microcells (which could be brought in after the fact). See where I am going? Generators require fuel which is always in short supply and batteries die out quickly. Adding Ham Radio to the picture doesn't really add much when you are trying to do something like a * network. The radio gear just isn't designed to integrate with the * server. Ham radio is being used down in the Katrina affected area with great results for both emergency and heath/welfare related traffic. They are using both "phone" (that's when one talks in to the radio) and data modes and can be heard all over the 75 and 40 meter bands here in the US. Power for most of these stations comes from batteries they loot (with Police approval) from abandoned cars or a combo of solar and batteries. Many stations are only hear on the air after dark so that they can put as much sunlight into their batteries as possible. Yes, electricity is available in some places either all day or across the peak hours (allowing the workmen to restore power to other areas). Yes, there are radio to phone interconnects but these really are a single phone to a single radio. Think of it as a cordless phone in that the radio user can be anywhere within reach of the base station. Such technologies, whilst legal here in the US, may not be legal elsewhere. When last at home (UK) I was not able to connect my radio to the phone system by law (this may have changed recently - not been home for 8 years). Many countries have such restrictions and as we saw during the Tsunami, rules don't get relaxed just because there's a panic on. Without question a phone system would be much better than a radio station. As such I'll be taking a portable * server I've built, all the IP hard phones I can find and 5 DirectTV style Internet systems. How do IP hardphones work with satellite internet? I always thought people had real trouble getting them to work at all. Best Wishes, Chris Travers Metatron Tecnology Consulting ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 07:28:34PM +, Mike Hemstock wrote: On Tuesday 06 September 2005 15:27, Mike M wrote: Imagine what a network of systems composed of Asterisk, ham radio, wifi, generators, batteries, and a reserve of fuel could have done for the Gulf coast. I have all of the components above except the ham radio. That's a very interesting idea. I've initiated a request to join my local amateur radio yahoo group. I'm going to see if I can enlist help to demonstrate this idea. -- Mike ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
On 08/09/05, Mark Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bloddy 2E's; always wrong. Mark G7LTT/KC2ENI I know some G7s who are occasionally wrong, too :-) Peter G4MJS / 9M6BAA -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +44 1296 768003 VoIP: sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
On 09/09/05, Mike M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 07:28:34PM +, Mike Hemstock wrote: On Tuesday 06 September 2005 15:27, Mike M wrote: Imagine what a network of systems composed of Asterisk, ham radio, wifi, generators, batteries, and a reserve of fuel could have done for the Gulf coast. I have all of the components above except the ham radio. That's a very interesting idea. I've initiated a request to join my local amateur radio yahoo group. I'm going to see if I can enlist help to demonstrate this idea. The concept of combining VoIP and ham radio is by no means new - there are many skype-a-like systems around which are used as links or user access to the existing ham repeater network. I don't know of any using Asterisk, though. Peter G4MJS -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +44 1296 768003 VoIP: sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
The operative word here being occasionally. Of course, bad spelling doesn't count. flameprooftrousers And as for those half baked M3's ... /flameprooftrousers Peter Bowyer wrote: On 08/09/05, Mark Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bloddy 2E's; always wrong. Mark G7LTT/KC2ENI I know some G7s who are occasionally wrong, too :-) Peter G4MJS / 9M6BAA -- Mark, G7LTT/KC2ENI Randolph, NJ http://www.g7ltt.com ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
Hold on here folks, I'm guessing that the original poster of this thread isn't a member of his local RAyNet team. Whilst I don't profess to be an expert at this I have been doing emergency radio for quite some time and have seen service at the Lockerbie bombing, Docklands bomb, Ground Zero (I'm sure I'm a terrorist target y'know - they seem to follow me everywhere) and soon I'll be in Louisiana. In all of these events the KISS principle must and does prevail. We need a system that is a simple and energy efficient as possible. Building a network of * servers and Wi-Fi links is all very well but how are you going to power them? Generators require fuel which is always in short supply and batteries die out quickly. Adding Ham Radio to the picture doesn't really add much when you are trying to do something like a * network. The radio gear just isn't designed to integrate with the * server. Ham radio is being used down in the Katrina affected area with great results for both emergency and heath/welfare related traffic. They are using both phone (that's when one talks in to the radio) and data modes and can be heard all over the 75 and 40 meter bands here in the US. Power for most of these stations comes from batteries they loot (with Police approval) from abandoned cars or a combo of solar and batteries. Many stations are only hear on the air after dark so that they can put as much sunlight into their batteries as possible. Yes, electricity is available in some places either all day or across the peak hours (allowing the workmen to restore power to other areas). Yes, there are radio to phone interconnects but these really are a single phone to a single radio. Think of it as a cordless phone in that the radio user can be anywhere within reach of the base station. Such technologies, whilst legal here in the US, may not be legal elsewhere. When last at home (UK) I was not able to connect my radio to the phone system by law (this may have changed recently - not been home for 8 years). Many countries have such restrictions and as we saw during the Tsunami, rules don't get relaxed just because there's a panic on. Without question a phone system would be much better than a radio station. As such I'll be taking a portable * server I've built, all the IP hard phones I can find and 5 DirectTV style Internet systems. My (approved by the Red Cross) plan is to install the * server and 2 phones in the HQ at Montgomery, AL. And then the other 4 systems in shelters where they have electricity thus relieving the Radio Hams for duty at other places. As hams are in short supply (they need over 700 every day) The best I could think of was to replace hams with phones rather than augment hams with phones. I guess after all this waffle I'm trying to say that ham radio is not a replacement for the telephone and cannot handle the kinds of load that is required by a phone system. Mark Mike M wrote: On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 07:28:34PM +, Mike Hemstock wrote: On Tuesday 06 September 2005 15:27, Mike M wrote: Imagine what a network of systems composed of Asterisk, ham radio, wifi, generators, batteries, and a reserve of fuel could have done for the Gulf coast. I have all of the components above except the ham radio. That's a very interesting idea. I've initiated a request to join my local amateur radio yahoo group. I'm going to see if I can enlist help to demonstrate this idea. -- Mark, G7LTT/KC2ENI Randolph, NJ http://www.g7ltt.com ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 01:46:57PM +0100, Peter Bowyer wrote: On 09/09/05, Mike M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 07:28:34PM +, Mike Hemstock wrote: On Tuesday 06 September 2005 15:27, Mike M wrote: Imagine what a network of systems composed of Asterisk, ham radio, wifi, generators, batteries, and a reserve of fuel could have done for the Gulf coast. I have all of the components above except the ham radio. That's a very interesting idea. I've initiated a request to join my local amateur radio yahoo group. I'm going to see if I can enlist help to demonstrate this idea. The concept of combining VoIP and ham radio is by no means new - there are many skype-a-like systems around which are used as links or user access to the existing ham repeater network. I don't know of any using Asterisk, though. I think this architecture has value: PSTN---asterisk---voip---radio===+==radio--voip--asterisk---POTS +==radio--voip--asterisk---POTS +==radio--voip--asterisk---POTS and this too: voip svc prvdrvoip---radio===+==radio--voip--asterisk---POTS +==radio--voip--asterisk---POTS +==radio--voip--asterisk---POTS POTS at the emergency end is good because it's familiar, simple, cheap, and runs on a central power source. I don't know radio equipment so I don't know if the upstream radio can multiplex streams onto different frequencies. -- Mike ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
On Fri, Sep 09, 2005 at 09:31:06AM -0400, Mark Phillips wrote: Generators require fuel which is always in short supply and batteries die out quickly. Fuel and batteries and power efficient systems need planning and management. Don't overlook solar panels as an energy source. They need to be in place all over the country and tested frequently. Adding Ham Radio to the picture doesn't really add much when you are trying to do something like a * network. The radio gear just isn't designed to integrate with the * server. It's software. It can be changed and added to. These things evolve from ideas in discussions like these. Such technologies, whilst legal here in the US, may not be legal elsewhere. What about authorized looting you mentioned? Sometimes you have to take a risk. Develop and demo where it's legal first. If it's not legal than we should ask why and work for change if we don't like the answer. Without question a phone system would be much better than a radio station. Well said. I guess after all this waffle I'm trying to say that ham radio is not a replacement for the telephone and cannot handle the kinds of load that is required by a phone system. What is the bandwidth potential? There are compression techniques from VoIP that might improve radio bandwidth utilization. New protocols can evolve to conserve bandwidth. Load control is a manageable problem. Radio telephony is not new. Telephony over ham might be new only because Asterisk puts telephonyi/voip into the same price range as ham radio gear. Maybe HAM is not the best technology. Maybe wi-fi is what we need. http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/448 Grassroots engineering can create an emergency civil communications system thereby creating some stored luck. Lucille Ball said, Luck? I don't know anything about luck. I've never banked on it, and I'm afraid of people who do. Luck to me is something else: Hard work -- and realizing what is opportunity and what isn't. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
Yeahit's better to be a KC...we just hang out in the back and watch everyone else be wrong out loud. -Jonathan KC9FQT -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Bowyer Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:45 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM On 08/09/05, Mark Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bloddy 2E's; always wrong. Mark G7LTT/KC2ENI I know some G7s who are occasionally wrong, too :-) Peter G4MJS / 9M6BAA -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +44 1296 768003 VoIP: sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
On Tuesday 06 September 2005 15:27, Mike M wrote: The disaster in the Gulf coast and the less than optimal initial response suggests to me that citizens must shoulder more responsibility for emergency management. Communications loss must have played a large role in the failures that occurred. I can't help but wonder if there are fewer ham radio operators today and that if there were more, maybe they could make a difference in future emergency situations. Imagine what a network of systems composed of Asterisk, ham radio, wifi, generators, batteries, and a reserve of fuel could have done for the Gulf coast. I have all of the components above except the ham radio. I suspect there are some folks on this list that have already implemented such a system. If so, I would like to read about what they have done so I can develop a plan to participate in this network if one exists. There's not much on google for asterisk ham. http://sourceforge.net/projects/hamlib/ http://www.radioadv.com/default.htm Thanks, That's a very interesting idea. I believe radio ametures who have a radio in their car don't have to pay road tax in Canada as they one provided emergency comms during a civil emergency. Mike. 2E1HFW ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] civil emergency comms: Asterisk + HAM
Bloddy 2E's; always wrong. You are thinking of the Alaska channel. You don't have to pay a particular vehicle tax if your car radio is equipped with 5167.5KHz USB. Mark G7LTT/KC2ENI Mike Hemstock wrote: On Tuesday 06 September 2005 15:27, Mike M wrote: The disaster in the Gulf coast and the less than optimal initial response suggests to me that citizens must shoulder more responsibility for emergency management. Communications loss must have played a large role in the failures that occurred. I can't help but wonder if there are fewer ham radio operators today and that if there were more, maybe they could make a difference in future emergency situations. Imagine what a network of systems composed of Asterisk, ham radio, wifi, generators, batteries, and a reserve of fuel could have done for the Gulf coast. I have all of the components above except the ham radio. I suspect there are some folks on this list that have already implemented such a system. If so, I would like to read about what they have done so I can develop a plan to participate in this network if one exists. There's not much on google for asterisk ham. http://sourceforge.net/projects/hamlib/ http://www.radioadv.com/default.htm Thanks, That's a very interesting idea. I believe radio ametures who have a radio in their car don't have to pay road tax in Canada as they one provided emergency comms during a civil emergency. Mike. 2E1HFW ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Mark, G7LTT/KC2ENI Randolph, NJ http://www.g7ltt.com ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation sponsored by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
