Re: [Asterisk-Users] G.729 licensing - Hardware Devices rather than software
On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 00:35 +, Obelix wrote: I have been reading a number of the past threads about G.729 licensing., about how the registration keys are linked to the network configurations, limited number of registrations etc, etc. Is there no reason why the decoding can't be done in with some Asterisk compatible hardware, so that once the adapter is bought, all licensing issues go away. In that way the owner could fiddle with the installation to his hearts content, without having to bother about reregistering licenses after some changes. It would save both Digium and end users a lot of hassle. They need to ensure that the license is not used by others. Digium has to pay the patent owner a fee for the codec. The way that it is licensed by the patent owner is per concurrent use as well. In linux gethostid() returns the IP address, not all systems work this way, some use a serial number off an eeprom (sparcs for example). Without locking it to something hardware based (cpu serial or something which isnt guaranteed to be accurate since its trivial to make a sysctl to report whatever you want ...) that woud be a feat. Additionally if you lock it to a peice of hardware you would not be able to play with the hardware, only the network. gethostid() is a silly way to lock hardware in my opinion anyway since it returns the IP address and many people now use NAT (by need or desire such as perception of increased security). NAT allows the system to sit behind the real IP and dish out seats and its possible (although it would take an illegal act on all concerned parties) to use the software without actually paying for it (someone somewhere would have to pay for it, but ...) Additionally with LD_PRELOAD or programs like systrace (depending on how its done in the code) you can force gethostid() to return whatever arbitrary data you wanted on a per invocation basis. One program can get the hostid as X while another on the same system at the same time gets it as Y. But right now this is the best of everything because it does not force you to buy additional hardware you may not have and do not want. And unless the communication path to the device could be controlled or a crypto system was implemented (and ITAR may be a problem, although I think they have exceptions for devices like this) the hardware could be emulated via software and it would totally defeat the licensing system with about the same degree of ease. All it would do is add cost to the end user, something I am sure most people do not want. In theory asterisk could bridge the licensed codec to an external hardware device that would have the number of seats in it but this would add latency and degrade performance, something I am very certain people do not want. What exists is the best of all worlds given the world we live in. Patents do exist in some places and as such the patent holder has the right under those laws to charge if they desire. In this case they do desire, and so digium is forced to pay. Being responsible business people they pass that charge on to the end users as it would be foolish for them to asorb the cost so that everyone else does not have to pay. -- Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402 US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200 FreeWorldDialup: 635378 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] G.729 licensing - Hardware Devices rather than software
On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 00:35 +, Obelix wrote: I have been reading a number of the past threads about G.729 licensing., about how the registration keys are linked to the network configurations, limited number of registrations etc, etc. Is there no reason why the decoding can't be done in with some Asterisk compatible hardware, so that once the adapter is bought, all licensing issues go away. In that way the owner could fiddle with the installation to his hearts content, without having to bother about reregistering licenses after some changes. It would save both Digium and end users a lot of hassle. Except you have just drastically increased the cost of the item. ie, to purchase 2 licenses (currently) it is USD$20. If you need to ship a physical product, it is going to be USD$20 + USD$30 or more for shipping (to Australia)... Or wherever that person is. You also have additional costs of repair/replacement of the hardware (since something will always go wrong with some percentage of them). Also, while it is apparently a manual process to upgrade from 10 licenses to 20, imagine needing to have 10 hardware devices because you kept adding licenses in stages? or needing to return the 'smaller' device to receive the 'bigger' device? While I agree that the current method may not work 100% of the time, I personally believe that it is probably about as good as it can get. Well, possible ways it could be better include: *) Automated (instant) sending of the reg key instead of waiting 1 or 2 days *) Automated upgrade options/re-registration (but then MS also forces you to speak to a real person before they will allow you to re-register their products) Regards, Adam ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] G.729 licensing - Hardware Devices rather than software
trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com wrote: On Tue, 2005-07-19 at 00:35 +, Obelix wrote: I have been reading a number of the past threads about G.729 licensing., about how the registration keys are linked to the network configurations, limited number of registrations etc, etc. Is there no reason why the decoding can't be done in with some Asterisk compatible hardware, so that once the adapter is bought, all licensing issues go away. In that way the owner could fiddle with the installation to his hearts content, without having to bother about reregistering licenses after some changes. It would save both Digium and end users a lot of hassle. They need to ensure that the license is not used by others. Digium has to pay the patent owner a fee for the codec. The way that it is licensed by the patent owner is per concurrent use as well. In linux gethostid() returns the IP address, not all systems work this way, some use a serial number off an eeprom (sparcs for example). Without locking it to something hardware based (cpu serial or something which isnt guaranteed to be accurate since its trivial to make a sysctl to report whatever you want ...) that woud be a feat. Additionally if you lock it to a peice of hardware you would not be able to play with the hardware, only the network. gethostid() is a silly way to lock hardware in my opinion anyway since it returns the IP address and many people now use NAT (by need or desire such as perception of increased security). NAT allows the system to sit behind the real IP and dish out seats and its possible (although it would take an illegal act on all concerned parties) to use the software without actually paying for it (someone somewhere would have to pay for it, but ...) While I do appreciate the lesson in system calls, what does any of this have to do with the g729 codec? :) Digium's G729 codec (and registration program) binds your license key to the MAC addresses of the ethernet adapters in the system. Even then you can register to three different sets of MAC addresses before you have to contact Digium to have your key reset. What do IP addresses have to do with anything? Additionally with LD_PRELOAD or programs like systrace (depending on how its done in the code) you can force gethostid() to return whatever arbitrary data you wanted on a per invocation basis. One program can get the hostid as X while another on the same system at the same time gets it as Y. But right now this is the best of everything because it does not force you to buy additional hardware you may not have and do not want. And unless the communication path to the device could be controlled or a crypto system was implemented (and ITAR may be a problem, although I think they have exceptions for devices like this) the hardware could be emulated via software and it would totally defeat the licensing system with about the same degree of ease. All it would do is add cost to the end user, something I am sure most people do not want. In theory asterisk could bridge the licensed codec to an external hardware device that would have the number of seats in it but this would add latency and degrade performance, something I am very certain people do not want. What exists is the best of all worlds given the world we live in. Patents do exist in some places and as such the patent holder has the right under those laws to charge if they desire. In this case they do desire, and so digium is forced to pay. Being responsible business people they pass that charge on to the end users as it would be foolish for them to asorb the cost so that everyone else does not have to pay. Wow. Anyways... I know there is some PCI hardware similar to the te410p that can do four T1/E1 spans and g729 transcoding onboard, but I don't think that it can be utilized for codec transcoding only. I'm really frustrated that I can't remember the name or manufacturer! A little help here, anyone :)? -- Kristian Kielhofner ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] G.729 licensing - Hardware Devices rather than software
On Mon, 2005-07-18 at 22:19 -0500, Kristian Kielhofner wrote: While I do appreciate the lesson in system calls, what does any of this have to do with the g729 codec? :) Digium's G729 codec (and registration program) binds your license key to the MAC addresses of the ethernet adapters in the system. Even then you can register to three different sets of MAC addresses before you have to contact Digium to have your key reset. What do IP addresses have to do with anything? if you read what I said you would understand why I referenced IP addresses, which I assumed, aparently incorrectly that is the call they used (becuase it has been a standard call for licensing for at least 2 decades). As for the mac address ok that just makes it simplier to deal with since the app doesnt directly interface with the hardware (the kernel does) it is trivial to set the mac addr to whatevr you want (ifconfig does this with many drivers) which makes it an even more moot point than having to have code to 'play' as the original author wanted. Just gotta watch that you dont have two with the same mac addr in some networks (some systems and network devices dont care enough others completly come unglued). Wow. Anyways... good response for someone that had to be explained yet again why I said what I said because of their inability to read in the first place. -- Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402 US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200 FreeWorldDialup: 635378 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] G.729 licensing - Hardware Devices rather than software
Just gotta watch that you dont have two with the same mac addr in some networks (some systems and network devices dont care enough others completly come unglued). Yeah, like ethernet. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] G.729 licensing - Hardware Devices rather than software
On Mon, 2005-07-18 at 21:45 -0600, Tim Pushor wrote: Just gotta watch that you dont have two with the same mac addr in some networks (some systems and network devices dont care enough others completly come unglued). Yeah, like ethernet. let me clarify, on an ethernet network some systems and devices dont care others freak out. happy? -- Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402 US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200 FreeWorldDialup: 635378 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] G.729 licensing - Hardware Devices rather than software
I'm sorry - that wasn't called for. For the most part, things get weird with multiple mac addresses on the same lan, or within the same switched network - but this really isn't on topic. Tim trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com wrote: On Mon, 2005-07-18 at 21:45 -0600, Tim Pushor wrote: Just gotta watch that you dont have two with the same mac addr in some networks (some systems and network devices dont care enough others completly come unglued). Yeah, like ethernet. let me clarify, on an ethernet network some systems and devices dont care others freak out. happy? ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
