Re: Just a Quick note
Re: Just a Quick note I have been away for a while, so am just catching up on threads. I cannot speak to what actually occurred with the Walter/Lori situation. I read the relevant topics, but I am not a mod, and I was not at the meetings where votes were cast, so I cannot weigh in on what information anyone had when casting their votes. In a case like that, I tend toward giving the person actually faced with being in that position the benefit of the doubt, absent cogent and extremely compelling evidence to the contrary. Perhaps if more of this community took that approach, fires would not so easily arise. Let's look at this case. If I understand correctly, Jayde's position is that he was given information by others on the moderator team, and that he cast his vote accordingly, based solely on that information. If that is true, then proceeding against him with accusations of corruption based on that alone seems rather flimsy at best. Let's look at another scenario, for example. If you could prove that Jayde knew of the situation before joining the moderator team, that he knew other moderators as friends, and that he colluded with those friends to acquire a position on the team in exchange for giving them a desired result by voting a certain way, then you would absolutely have a good-faith basis to claim corruption in my opinion. However, I do not recall Brandon, or anyone else for that matter, ever alleging such a thing, and Jayde does not say that such a scenario occurred. Therefore, such evidence is not before me. assuming that Jayde's assertion is the absolute truth, then I believe the mistake that Jayde made was two-fold. First, trusting fully in the information provided by others and relying on only what they told him in voting, despite knowing that there was controversy surrounding the participants (including those active on the moderator team), seems ill-advised to me, and (2) Being willing to cast a vote despite not pursuing independent research and fact-finding for himself, given the acrimony of the parties involved and the indisputably contentious nature of the aforementioned controversy, just smacks of laziness. If I had been the moderator added in haste under the conditions that he faced, I would have spent quite some time reviewing all relevant logs and posts, as well as talking to all parties involved before I would have been willing to cast a vote, and if I was expected to cast my vote based solely on what other mods told me, or if voting was required by manifest necessity before my own investigation was completed, I would have respectfully, but firmly, abstained. I do not believe that Jayde's mistake is borne of a spirit of corruption, but was perhaps due to a willingness to believe what others were telling him, to trust them, without independently verifying their claims, and perhaps, to a lesser extent, or maybe to a greater one, a desire to take the easy road as it were, to avoid the hard work of reading through hours of emails and list posts and talking to all of the people involved. That doesn't strike me as corrupt. Incompetent? Maybe. Lazy? Almost certainly. Imprudent? Definitely. Harmful to the reputation that you would want to cultivate as a moderator? Undoubtedly. But not corrupt. Moreover, I doubt very sincerely that he will make those mistakes again. If I am wrong in that regard, then he does so at his own peril, a fact that he is no doubt cognizant of, given the heightened scrutiny that his position creates, and the willingness of many in this community to pounce quickly and ravenously upon what they deem to be improper behavior.My point is, we have more than two hundred years of jurisprudence in this country that speaks of giving the benefit of any doubt to parties who have been accused, and to fairness and due process before affirming guilt upon another. It seems to me that this community struggles to remember the spirit of those beliefs in its dealings with one another. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/444250/#p444250 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Just a Quick note
Re: Just a Quick note I have been away for a while, so am just catching up on threads. I cannot speak to what actually occurred with the Walter/Lori situation. I read the relevant topics, but I am not a mod, and I was not at the meetings where votes were cast, so I cannot weigh in on what information anyone had when casting their votes. In a case like that, I tend toward giving the person actually faced with being in that position the benefit of the doubt, absent cogent and extremely compelling evidence to the contrary. Perhaps if more of this community took that approach, fires would not so easily arise. Let's look at this case. If I understand correctly, Jayde's position is that he was given information by others on the moderator team, and that he cast his vote accordingly, based solely on that information. If that is true, then proceeding against him with accusations of corruption based on that seems rather flimsy at best, unless, for example, you could prove that Jayde knew of the situation before joining the moderator team, that he knew other moderators as friends, and that he colluded with those friends to acquire a position on the team in exchange for giving them a desired result by voting a certain way. Such a scenario would, indeed, be corruption. However, I do not recall Brandon ever alleging such a thing, and Jayde does not say that such a scenario occurred. Therefore, such evidence is not before me. assuming that Jayde's assertion is the absolute truth, then I believe the mistake that Jayde made was two-fold. First, trusting fully in the information provided by others and relying on only what they told him in voting, despite knowing that there was controversy surrounding the participants (including those active on the moderator team), seems ill-advised to me, and (2) Being willing to cast a vote despite not pursuing independent research and fact-finding for himself, given the acrimony of the parties involved and the indisputably contentious nature of the aforementioned controversy, just smacks of laziness. If I had been the moderator added in haste under the conditions that he faced, I would have spent quite some time reviewing all relevant logs and posts, as well as talking to all parties involved before I would have been willing to cast a vote, and if I was expected to cast my vote based solely on what other mods told me, or if voting was required by manifest necessity before my own investigation was completed, I would have respectfully, but firmly, abstained. I do not believe that Jayde's mistake is borne of a spirit of corruption, but was perhaps due to a willingness to believe what others were telling him, to trust them, without independently verifying their claims, and perhaps, to a lesser extent, or maybe to a greater one, a desire to take the easy road as it were, to avoid the hard work of reading through hours of emails and list posts and talking to all of the people involved. That doesn't strike me as corrupt. Lazy? Almost certainly. Imprudent? Definitely. Harmful to the reputation that you would want to cultivate as a moderator? Undoubtedly. But not corrupt. Moreover, I doubt very sincerely that he will make those mistakes again. If I am wrong in that regard, then he does so at his own peril, a fact that he is cognizant of, given the heightened scrutiny that his position creates, and the willingness of many in this community to pounce quickly and ravenously upon what they deem to be improper behavior.My point is, we have more than two hundred years of jurisprudence in this country that speaks of giving the benefit of any doubt to parties who have been accused, and to fairness and due process before affirming guilt upon another. It seems to me that this community struggles to remember the spirit of those beliefs in its dealings with one another. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/444250/#p444250 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Just a Quick note
Re: Just a Quick note I have been away for a while, so am just catching up on threads. I cannot speak to what actually occurred with the Walter/Lori situation. I read the relevant topics, but I am not a mod, and I was not at the meetings where votes were cast, so I cannot weigh in on what information anyone had when casting their votes. In a case like that, I tend toward giving the person actually faced with being in that position the benefit of the doubt, absent cogent and extremely compelling evidence to the contrary. Perhaps if more of this community took that approach, fires would not so easily arise. Let's look at this case. If I understand correctly, Jayde's position is that he was given information by others on the moderator team, and that he cast his vote accordingly, based solely on that information. If that is true, then proceeding against him with accusations of corruption solely based on that seems a bit much to me, unless, for example, you could prove that Jayde knew of the situation before joining the moderator team, that he knew other moderators as friends, and that he colluded with those friends to acquire a position on the team in exchange for giving them a desired result by voting a certain way. Such a scenario would, indeed, be corruption. However, I do not recall Brandon ever alleging such a thing, and Jayde does not say that such a scenario occurred. Therefore, such evidence is not before me. assuming that Jayde's assertion is the absolute truth, then I believe the mistake that Jayde made was two-fold. First, trusting fully in the information provided by others and relying on only what they told him in voting, despite knowing that there was controversy surrounding the participants (including those active on the moderator team), seems ill-advised to me, and (2) Being willing to cast a vote despite not pursuing independent research and fact-finding for himself, given the acrimony of the parties involved and the indisputably contentious nature of the aforementioned controversy, just smacks of laziness. If I had been the moderator added in haste under the conditions that he faced, I would have spent quite some time reviewing all relevant logs and posts, as well as talking to all parties involved before I would have been willing to cast a vote, and if I was expected to cast my vote based solely on what other mods told me, or if voting was required by manifest necessity before my own investigation was completed, I would have respectfully, but firmly, abstained. I do not believe that Jayde's mistake is borne of a spirit of corruption, but was perhaps due to a willingness to believe what others were telling him, to trust them, without independently verifying their claims, and perhaps, to a lesser extent, or maybe to a greater one, a desire to take the easy road as it were, to avoid the hard work of reading through hours of emails and list posts and talking to all of the people involved. That doesn't strike me as corrupt. Lazy? Almost certainly. Imprudent? Definitely. Harmful to the reputation that you would want to cultivate as a moderator? Undoubtedly. But not corrupt. Moreover, I doubt very sincerely that he will make those mistakes again. If I am wrong in that regard, then he does so at his own peril, a fact that he is cognizant of, given the heightened scrutiny that his position creates, and the willingness of many in this community to pounce quickly and ravenously upon what they deem to be improper behavior.My point is, we have more than two hundred years of jurisprudence in this country that speaks of giving the benefit of any doubt to parties who have been accused, and to fairness and due process before affirming guilt upon another. It seems to me that this community struggles to remember the spirit of those beliefs in its dealings with one another. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/444250/#p444250 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Just a Quick note
Re: Just a Quick note I have been away for a while, so am just catching up on threads. I cannot speak to what actually occurred with the Walter/Lori situation. I read the relevant topics, but I am not a mod, and I was not at the meetings where votes were cast, so I cannot weigh in on what information anyone had when casting their votes. In a case like that, I tend toward giving the person actually faced with being in that position the benefit of the doubt, absent cogent and extremely compelling evidence to the contrary. Perhaps if more of this community took that approach, fires would not so easily arise. Let's look at this case. If I understand correctly, Jayde's position is that he was given information by others on the moderator team, and that he cast his vote accordingly, based solely on that information. If that is true, then proceeding against him with accusations of corruption solely based on that seems a bit much to me, unless, for example, you could prove that Jayde knew of the situation before joining the moderator team, that he knew other moderators as friends, and that he colluded with those friends to acquire a position on the team in exchange for giving them a desired result by voting a certain way. Such a scenario would, indeed, be corruption. However, I do not recall Brandon ever alleging such a thing, and Jayde does not say that such a scenario occurred. Therefore, such evidence is not before me. assuming that Jayde's assertion is the absolute truth, then I believe the mistake that Jayde made was two-fold. First, trusting fully in the information provided by others and relying on only what they told him in voting, despite knowing that there was controversy surrounding the participants (including those active on the moderator team), seems ill-advised to me, and (2) Being willing to cast a vote despite not pursuing independent research and fact-finding for himself, given the acrimony of the parties involved and the indisputably contentious nature of the aforementioned controversy, just smacks of laziness. If I had been the moderator added in haste under the conditions that he faced, I would have spent quite some time reviewing all relevant logs and posts, as well as talking to all parties involved before I would have been willing to cast a vote, and if I was expected to cast my vote based solely on what other mods told me, or if voting was required by manifest necessity before my own investigation was completed, I would have respectfully, but firmly, abstained. I do not believe that Jayde's mistake is borne of a spirit of corruption, but was perhaps due to a willingness to believe what others were telling him, to trust them, without independently verifying their claims, and perhaps, to a lesser extent, or maybe to a greater one, a desire to take the easy road as it were, to avoid the hard work of reading through hours of emails and list posts and talking to all of the people involved. That doesn't strike me as corrupt. Lazy? Almost certainly. Imprudent? Definitely. Harmful to the reputation that you would want to cultivate as a moderator? Undoubtedly. But not corrupt. Moreover, I doubt very sincerely that he will make those mistakes again. If I am wrong in that regard, then he does so at his own peril, a fact that he is cognizant of, given the heightened scrutiny that his position creates, and the willingness of many in this community to pounce quickly and ravenously upon what they deem to be improper behavior.My point is, we have more than two-hundred years of jurisprudence in this country that speaks of giving the benefit of any doubt to parties who have been accused, and to fairness and due process before affirming guilt upon another. It seems to me that this community struggles to remember the spirit of those beliefs in its dealings with one another. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/444250/#p444250 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Just a Quick note
Re: Just a Quick note I have been away for a while, so am just catching up on threads. I cannot speak to what actually occurred with the Walter/Lori situation. I read the relevant topics, but I am not a mod, and I was not at the meetings where votes were cast, so I cannot weigh in on what information anyone had when casting their votes. In a case like that, I tend toward giving the person actually faced with being in that position the benefit of the doubt, absent cogent and extremely compelling evidence to the contrary. Perhaps if more of this community took that approach, fires would not so easily arise. Let's look at this case. If I understand correctly, Jayde's position is that he was given information by others on the moderator team, and that he cast his vote accordingly, based solely on that information. If that is true, then proceeding against him with accusations of corruption solely based on that seems a bit much to me, unless, for example, you could prove that Jayde knew of the situation before joining the moderator team, that he knew other moderators as friends, and that he colluded with those friends to acquire a position on the team in exchange for giving them a desired result by voting a certain way. Such a scenario would, indeed, be corruption. However, I do not recall Brandon ever alleging such a thing, and Jayde does not say that such a scenario occurred. Therefore, assuming that Jayde's assertion is the absolute truth, then I believe the mistake that Jayde made was two-fold. First, trusting fully in the information provided by others, and relying on solely what they told him in voting, despite knowing that there was controversy surrounding the participants (including those active on the moderator team) seems ill-advised to me, and (2) Being willing to cast a vote despite not pursuing independent research and fact-finding for himself, given the acrimony of the parties involved and the indisputably contentious nature of the aforementioned controversy just smacks of laziness. If I had been the moderator added in haste under the conditions that he faced, I would have spent quite some time reviewing all relevant logs and posts, as well as talking to all parties involved before I would have been willing to cast a vote, and if I was expected to cast my vote based solely on what other mods told me, or if voting was required by manifest necessity before my own investigation was completed, I would have respectfully abstained. I do not believe that Jayde's mistake is borne of a spirit of corruption, but was perhaps due to a willingness to believe what others were telling him, to trust them, without independently verifying their claims, and perhaps, to a lesser extent, or maybe to a greater one, a desire to take the easy road as it were, to avoid the hard work of reading through hours of emails and list posts and talking to all of the people involved. That doesn't strike me as corrupt. Lazy? Almost certainly. Imprudent? Definitely. Harmful to the reputation that you would want to cultivate as a moderator? Undoubtedly. But not corrupt. Moreover, I doubt very sincerely that he will make those mistakes again. If I am wrong in that regard, then he does so at his own peril, a fact that he is cognizant of, given the heightened scrutiny that his position creates, and the willingness of many in this community to pounce quickly and ravenously upon what they deem to be improper behavior. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/444250/#p444250 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
