Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" CAE_Jones wrote:Unicode braille symbols is honestly kinda confusing. I've never come across them being accessible; am I just to assume they're for the benefit of sighted people trying to learn braille? Don't they have braille fonts for that?On the other hand, if they're actually used more accessibly by a different OS, I guess that makes sense.(Or is there more to it that I'm not aware of?)I actually do not understand why the default character transformations do not translate the Unicode Braille characters to their haptic pendants, especially in brltty, it shouldn't be too hard to write a ctb-file that does this.Having them in Unicode is, however, useful. Especially, Unicode has a lot of foreign alphabets and scripts, and Braille or Braille-Like alphabets are widespread, and sometimes one just wants to refer to some special Braille character.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=167607#p167607 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" I have not experience with computer art, as ASCII and Unicode stuff are foreign to me. But what I do know is that you can produce Braille art using a braille writer. I heard of people using different characters to decorate words, and even use font sizes and colours to make shapes.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=167583#p167583 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" Unicode braille symbols is honestly kinda confusing. I've never come across them being accessible; am I just to assume they're for the benefit of sighted people trying to learn braille? Don't they have braille fonts for that?On the other hand, if they're actually used more accessibly by a different OS, I guess that makes sense.(Or is there more to it that I'm not aware of?)URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=167512#p167512 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" It doesn't work here when using IE10 and Jaws 14. I should see how it works on my Mac using Safari and VO.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=167493#p167493 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" Hmm... That stinks... Not sure how to fix that. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=167486#p167486 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" Well, good news is they aren't getting corrupted. Bad news is they just come out as unrecognized unicode so far as NVDA on Windows is concerned. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=167482#p167482 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" Looks like it works on my mac. Hopefully you can see it.⢀⣤⣶⣶⣴⡟⠀⠀⠰⣁⣼⣿⣿⣶⠀⠀⠀⠻⣿⠟⠉⠀⠀⠀⠰⣿⠟⠛⠻⣿⠆And there's a pig. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=167471#p167471 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" ⣴⠛⣦⠚⣿⠓⣴⠛⣦⣾⠀⣷⠚⣿⠓⣾⠛⠓⣾⠳⣄⠀⣾⠛⣦⣾⠛⠓⣴⠛⣦⣾⠛⣦⣾⠀⠀⣾⠛⠓⠀⣴⠛⣦⣴⠀⣦⣴⠛⣦⣷⠀⡴⠙⠶⣄⠀⣿⠀⣿⢠⣄⣿⠶⣿⠀⣿⠀⣿⠖⠀⣿⠀⣿⠀⣿⣤⠟⣿⠖⠀⣿⠀⣿⣿⣤⠟⣿⠀⠀⣿⠖⠀⠀⠙⠶⣄⣿⠀⣿⣿⠀⠀⣿⠶⡇⠻⣤⠟⢤⣿⡤⠻⣤⠟⢿⠀⡿⠀⡿⠀⢿⣤⡤⢿⡴⠋⠀⢿⠀⠀⢿⣤⡤⠻⣤⠟⢿⠀⠀⠻⣦⡤⢿⣤⡤⠀⠻⣤⠟⠻⣤⠟⠻⣤⠟⡿⠀⢷I hope this works on this forum. I'm not sure how the server will handle the characters. It should at least work on a Mac, or an iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch.It should say "SIGHTED PEOPLE SUCK" just like you want in three line characters that are made of 8 dot braille. It is supposed to be like using braille characters to make non-braille characters.If you need some like this, probably the only way you can reach me is by finding me on the iPhone app "Gangs at War." I make plenty of this art there. My username is shaggy.Have a nice day.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=167469#p167469 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" Software for i/o with refreshable braille. It sounds like Dolphin keeps access to it under tight wraps, so I wouldn't know how one might go about making use of it.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=160965#p160965 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" CAE_Jones wrote:Transcripts and alt tags seem like pretty much all there is at the moment.Aprone and I have both made various stabs at this problem since we got here, and have made very little progress. I am given to wonder, though, if a developer with a decent image API and access to SAM couldn't come up with something useful, if monochrome.What is SAM? I found "Symbols and Meanings", some learning-aid for blind people, but that is probably not what you mean.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=160950#p160950 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" Transcripts and alt tags seem like pretty much all there is at the moment.Aprone and I have both made various stabs at this problem since we got here, and have made very little progress. I am given to wonder, though, if a developer with a decent image API and access to SAM couldn't come up with something useful, if monochrome.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=160947#p160947 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" There really isn't any other way. Most sites don't even use alt tags, so even that is a step forward.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=160900#p160900 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" Well, it is less impressive than I hoped, but at least should be sort of readable - and it raises awareness, since some (sighted) people who read it found out its meaning, and thus had to handle with braille letters: https://blog.uxul.de/e?e=brailleThis brings me to the following problem: As you might see, I publish some (low-quality) comics on my website. So far, I only have alt-texts for them. What would be a good format for making them more accessible directly? I know some companies that do haptic printing, but all of that stuff seems like black magic to me (and especially, haptic printing is comparably expensive, and nothing the usual blind person can do at home). However, Alt-Texts always seem so artificial, and in many cases they just spoil the whole joke.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=160895#p160895 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" It isn't that hard to disable contractions, at least with what I've used (my display actually has a button that takes care of this, but for those that don't, I think most screen readers have that setting in their braille settings).URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=159570#p159570 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" Hm. What I actually wanted to write is "sightedpeoplesuck" (which is a reference to http://xkcd.com/315/), but "one line deeper", that is, using the lower 6 dots rather than the upper 6. I used the database under /etc/brltty/en_US.ttb from brltty under Ubuntu. I obviously failed. Meh. But maybe you can say more about what actually failed.The main problem with using a-z seems to be the shorthand signs for some common words and phrases, which appear to be different depending on the language, if I got that right. Also, some special characters like umlauts in German braille seem to be different from umlauts in US computerbraille. But on the other hand, lets say I put on a 20-times-something grid of characters, it should be clear to everyone sufficiently familiar with his computer, that he would have to turn off shorthand notations. The question for me then is, how hard is it to turn them off, that is, how hard is it to tell the computer "give me the characters a-z without applying any shortenings".URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=159568#p159568 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" I finally looked at the puzzle, but I'm using NVDA, which just reads all the unicode as '\x, where is the hex code for the character. I don't know what half those characters would look like in, say, the 8dot braille used by Freedom Scientific products. (I tried pulling up Jaws to check, but it "helpfully" informed me that I must restart my computer before it will work.)URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=159562#p159562 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" "Patented but not produced" appears to describe every promising bit of haptic technology I've read about since 2002, which frustrates me to no end.*For the braille output I use in my games, computer braille is expected. It pretty much has to be; for example, a horizontal line across the top of a cell might be written as "", but if that were translated into grade 2, it'd get crunched to what "c3c" looks like. (So sorta like the -_- emoticon...?).* Since 2002 meaning "since I started researching haptics". From the looks of it, the disappointment goes back much further than that. The Tactile Explorer was functional (if bulky) in the 1990s; the concept behind the Tesla Touch and Senseg's Tixels was the subject of a 1953 article in Science, the NIST was playing with prototypes in the early 2000s, etc, etc, etc. ... And Apple and Google's latest haptics patents involve Piezoelectric actuators. * Sigh*URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=159521#p159521 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" I'm not picking on your naming it a terminal. I thought you meant an actual terminal, however, something 80x20 or whatever. Like the old DOS terminals from years ago. SO long as everyone is aware that it's only one line, etc. The word terminal makes me think of something that is definitively not one line.You aren't safe with just a through z. You aren't safe with anything. Er becomes one symbol, st becomes one symbol, ation becomes two symbols, and becomes one symbol, the becomes one symbol, etc. Here, "of the" actually becomes two symbols without a space between them (UEB might change this last one, but I don't know it and the US is still on the fence as to whether or not to adopt it). The list goes on for a very, very long while. Screen reading software, at least on windows, does this translation automatically unless explicitly told not to. That's leaving alone settings like suppr ess capitals, or the fact that capital letters are actually two symbols in the first place. Basically, there is literally no safety at all, ?and the end user is going to have to configure to the same settings you made it with. I'd suggest sticking to computer braille tables and telling viewers to set their screen reader to computer braille temporarily. This might do the trick, but then again it might not. The reason I said printing is probably your best option is because you can control the translation there completely. You could also give out a brf file if you wanted, which works for those who know how to view them (I use my PACMate for that personally). Someone might be able to provide better directions; I've never tried to do this kind of thing on a computer, though I have on an actual Perkins Brailler (completely mechanical, no translation magic to fight).This can be done, it's just not simple and easy. Unfortunately , it's one of those problems where the complexity falls on the end user more than the creator. I'll look at it when I get my display back (it's at my dorm and I'm home for the break). I can probably get it to work with NVDA, at least, and might be able to post directions.Best of luck with it. I'm curious to see where this goes.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=159505#p159505 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" camlorn wrote:I'm not sure if you're aware of the following two things, so I'm mentioning them anyway. If you are, feel free to disregard me. I don't have a braille display at the moment.First, it's not braille terminals. It's one line only.Yes, I am aware of it. But it is still called "Braille Terminal" mostly, when I read about it.camlorn wrote:If you want the art to make sense, you're probably going to want to print it. You also have to deal with varying sizes. Braille displays range from 16 cells all the way up to 80. Even assuming that the person viewing is good enough to be able to put it together from one line slices rather than a two dimensional grid, that breaks a soon as it wraps around.I actually don't want to "make sense&qu ot;, at least not more sense than unicode art.To really produce accessible stuff, I would consult one of those companies that do haptic printing.camlorn wrote:The encoding isn't the problem, the problem is bypassing the layer of translation. If the file is made in computer braille and the screen reader is set to computer braille, it might work. Otherwise, it probably won't. I don't know about dedicated software suite for braille viewing, and can't comment on that.Probably, sticking with only the letters a-z is the most "portable" thing to do, as this is - as far as I read - common on all western braille encodings, right? camlorn wrote:Unfortunately, I don't have my braille display at the moment, and won't for a couple weeks, so I can't actually look at it.Well, I tried to configure orca with Xbraille, which is a virtual braille terminal for testing. I couldn't manage to make it run so far. Meh. I hate software.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=159500#p159500 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" I'm not sure if you're aware of the following two things, so I'm mentioning them anyway. If you are, feel free to disregard me. I don't have a braille display at the moment.First, it's not braille terminals. It's one line only. If you want the art to make sense, you're probably going to want to print it. You also have to deal with varying sizes. Braille displays range from 16 cells all the way up to 80. Even assuming that the person viewing is good enough to be able to put it together from one line slices rather than a two dimensional grid, that breaks a soon as it wraps around.Secondly, there's grade 2 Braille here in the US, an equivalent for other languages, computer braille, grade 1 braille, and Nemeth. Your point of interest is the computer Braille versus grade 1 versus grade 2 issue. The screen reader, which is ultimately responsible for what gets seen by the braille dis play, has no way of knowing that you're looking at braille. Consequently, it's going to assume it's print and try to translate it. For proper viewing, the screen reader needs to be set to specific settings: I believe it's computer braille that you need, but it might also be grade 1. The encoding isn't the problem, the problem is bypassing the layer of translation. If the file is made in computer braille and the screen reader is set to computer braille, it might work. Otherwise, it probably won't. I don't know about dedicated software suite for braille viewing, and can't comment on that.Unfortunately, I don't have my braille display at the moment, and won't for a couple weeks, so I can't actually look at it.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=159494#p159494 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" Ok, maybe as a tip: I used the BRLTTY encoding en_US, which defines 2x8 dots.@CAE_Jones: You mentioned carbon nanotubes. Are you a material scientist? (And as a cheap alternative to piezzos, as far as I read, Nitinol and other electroactive alloys and polymers are usually considered, and most of it appears to be patented already, but not produced ... which is a shame!)URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=159491#p159491 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" The difficulty, here, is eight dot Vs six dot displays. If you're using text, it's better to stick to ascii characters, since anything beyond ascii 127 will be depicted differently across displays and screen readers. At most, you could capitalize letters to get a slightly more reliable dot 7.Which is annoying, because that extra row with 8dot braille makes a world of difference when it comes to braille art. Sure, having multiple lines would be galaxies better, but grumble technology grumble. (Memo to self: look up potential applications of graphene or carbon nanotubes to refreshable braille)I'll probably look at the actual puzzle later (it will help if this topic gets more posts after mine so I won't forget. ); I don't have my display connected and don't have the time or deskspace for it right now. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=159489#p159489 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Re: Help with "Braille Art" Hi,I have an 18-cell and a 40-cell braille display, and I looked at this for awhile and couldn't make much sense of it.I see quite a lot of unicode characters in here that aren't represented in ASCII, and, at least on the Mac and computer braille, they're displayed as a certain symbol (I'll look up the dot combination for you if you're interested); and in grade 2 it's the standard dot 4 + character. For example, ó is represented as dot 4, o. I'm not sure what Windows does; I can check on that later when I get access to a Windows machine. In theory this stuff should be the same, but you know Apple, always different. LOL.If you're trying to create art (as in, for example, pigs, Christmas trees, etc), then I would suggest manual using a Perkins Brailler and distributing it to interested people; or, if this is not possible, create BRF files which can be sent to embossers. Indeed, there exist special technology that can do this sort of thing with "standard" images, though I have no experience with this myself and, given the specialized combination of equipment, this probably isn't an ideal solution if your intent is to distribute your art to as wide an audience as possible.I would say that, generally, it would be very difficult to represent "shapes" on braille displays, as they are typically only one line in length. Multiline displays do exist, though I have never seen one, and as far as I know this type of display is prohibitively expensive for even the richest of people.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=159477#p159477 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
[Audiogames-reflector] Help with "Braille Art"
Help with "Braille Art" Though fortunately my eyes are healthy, I am interested in braille and accessibility. I am currently trying to create some "Braille Art" (in contrast to ASCII/Unicode-Art which is probably hard to understand for visually impaired people), just for fun and giggles (and maybe to raise the awareness of these things). As it is "Art", it does not need to make too much sense. But omg, the encoding-hell appears to be even more f*ck*d up than it is for black writing.Probably, some people here do have a braille terminal. I have put up a little puzzle, http://uxul.de/spam.html, of which I'd like to know whether this is solvable for people who have such a terminal (and are, of course, sufficiently expeirenced with computer internals). I made this using the tables from BRLTTY, which is why the encoding is not utf-8, so especially, I'd like to know whether the same can be done using utf8.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=159460#p159460 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
