Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare +1 Chris.QT accessibility is improving, although not all apps (in particular VirtualBox) are accessible enough to be usable. TeamTalk, apparently, may now work. This is indeed the worst part of OS X: accessibility politics, and realising that vendor nepotism is a reality and that even Apple is guilty of it. Fortunately, despite the apparently perpetual concerns that we'll be left out, somehow, we never are, and Mac OS X provides all of the functionality you really need, especially for everyday tasks. On the few occasions it really doesn't, well, there's always virtualisation. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=249015#p249015 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare Welcome to the wonderful world of Mac OS X and access to nearly all aspects of the system. I can't tell you how much independence I now have that was simply not possible on Windows machines. I'll admit that Apple isn't perfect, and there are certainly some areas of the OS and VoiceOver that could be better, but it's changed the way I think of computers and accessibility. You'll find that some applications like Skype work better with VO than Windows screen readers while other apps like TeamTalk are really bad. This is the only thing that irritates me. Why do these people build a screen reader mode into TT for Windows and no support for VO? It's inexcusable! I refuse to use an application that is accessible on one platform but not another. I will say the same for Adobe Flash. I'm not touching that piece of crap with a ten foot pole. Then again, Flash is nearly dead! Let us rejoice when it finally dies! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=248959#p248959 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare LOL, re the breathing. I'm now quite used to it, really. Well, OK, so when I first heard it I thought it was way cool. I guess if you need Macintalk but can't stand Alex, there is Fred. He's awful quiet, and IMO has his own problems (he is no Eloquence), but perhaps give it a try. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=248542#p248542 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare @aaron,Thanks for the info. I'm sure it is a lot to keep in mind, but that's precisely why I made this topic, so that I kind of don't have to, at least, not right away, anyway. Honestly though, VO is, as my first post pointed out, already highly instructive on its own and has provided me with a ton of useful info for starts. I don't find myself feeling overly impatient with the device or the operating system. I really do like it, as you will no doubt discover if you read post 1 in its entirety, which I must admit is somewhat satirical in nature and... Hey! It has progress clicks? Is that what those things are?Oo! She's installing fusion on it! Things could get interesting tonight! Wait, whaaat? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=248496#p248496 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare If you don't like Alex, you should try Alison, she sounds like a 30 year old school librarian, not a 45 year old X cheerleader who opens her mouth too wide when she talks like Samantha does; that's probably just me though...Some people also like Thom, but I personally think he sounds like someone's nerdy scientist dad.Those are all English U.S. by the way.O and by the way, you can get RS Games on the Mac if you want something to do that isn't action based. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=248494#p248494 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare Fusion is a great little toy. It's kind enough to install windows for you without sighted assistance! Am I the only person in this world that doesn't really mind Alex? I mean, some of its quirks like pronouncing some capital letters wrong are extremely annoying, but apart from that it's not a bad synth to me. Also, at faster speeds, the breathing effect is less noticeable. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=248497#p248497 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare Well, congrats on the mac! As for the v o keys, there are plenty of ways around them that make the old-fassioned ctrl+option lock obsolete. Quicknav. Press both left and right arrows at the same time, and you can use your mac with mostly only the arrows. Down+right to interact, down+left to stop interact. Down+up to perform action. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=248498#p248498 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare Somebody mentioned the Dock.When you have the time on your own Mac, do a VO+Shift+M to get a context menu on any item that's described as a folder, and choose the option to view it as a list. Now it's an accessible menu, instead of a pretty much unusable stack. You can also add the Applications folder to your Dock and use it as a kind of Windows Start menu equivalent. Yeah sure, very clunky, and really just opening Applications in Finder is a lot easier (Command-Shift-A) but it's still quite cute to have a way to launch all apps from the Dock, even those you did not add in yourself. FWIW, LaunchPad does work, but I rarely if ever use it because meh, this is a Mac, not a flaming iPad. As always, the information you need is in VoiceOver help (VO-questionmark). Just search for Dock; it's the first hit for me. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=248520#p248520 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare It's funny you mention object navigation. When I tried to learn it, it seemed so convoluted and I had very slight success, so I was dreading the interaction aspect of vo because I figured it would be similar. I was really surprised when I ended up loving interaction. I couldn't imagine using my mac without it. It's especially useful when you can scroll past a frame of ads in one press of the right arrow key, swipe, or however you choose to navigate. Anyway, coming back to NVDA, I've discovered I can't use object navigation at all anymore. roflWhen I got my MBP, I was just as astonished when the machine made no sound whatsoever. I would joke about how my other computers, I at least knew they were on when they stopped working and I stopped receiving audio, but here I couldn't even tell that! Luckily, force touch trackpads are a very useful way of telling whether the machine is on or not.Just a few tips that I can remember, in a completely random order:1. The function keys are actually very useful even for a voice over user, but the best way to use them is with the fn key. I believe someone gave directions to changing what the keys do by default, but if you want them to perform their alternative function, you use the fn key. E.G. if they're set to the mode that caused you to accidentally mute everything, you'd press fn+command+f5 to enable vo. These keys are useful, though because f1 and f2 lower and raise screen brightness, for those times you want to conserve battery life and screen curtain is on, while f7, f8, and f9 act as previous track, play/pause, and next track respectively in ITunes and perhaps other media players that support them.2. Do not use the dock. Well, you can, but using it as an app launcher is pointless when you have spotlight. Remember the lovely start menu search box? Spotlight is just that, but many times better. It can open specific applications, search for specific files by type , last modified and many other bits of metadata, perform web searches, etc. It even has very limited natural language processing. you can type something like "files I edited last week." and it will show you all of the files you edited last week. It's really neat, but apart from simple requests like that, it's not very intelligent. Oh and it can also query the OSX calculator. Spotlight will be able to serve you nicely forever, unless you decide to acquire an app launcher like launchbar, which gives you even more impressive functionality.3. You don't need to use control+command, unless you're messing with password fields. By default, voice over is set to use capslock as a voice over modifier, starting in El Capitan. I say the bit about password fields because there's an annoying bug that causes the capslock key to be held down when pressed while editing a password edit field.4. When starting out, trackpad commander is your friend. Won't say much more about that because I know people were talking about it on the other thread.5. read this: http://www.applevis.com/guides/mac-os-x … s-x-finderUnless you're like me and used the terminal to manipulate files at first, you will need that knowledge right away.6. on OSX, command tab does not move between windows. though it's functionality is identical to alt tabbing on windows, it differs in the fact that it moves between applications rather than windows. If you want to move between windows, you would press command `. One example of this is if you had three documents open in text edit, you would not move between the three by command tabbing, but by being inside of text edit, and using command ` to move between the three files. There are also other windows, such as some popups that you cannot command ` to. you access these by using voice over's window chooser, accessible by pressing Vo+f2 twice, or double tapping the right side of the trackpad.7. Although command tab makes a nice app switcher, you can also use spotlight for the same purpose. Generally, only one copy of an app will run at a time, so activating spotlight with command space, typing part of the app name and pressing enter will switch focus to that app, and you don't have to command tab through the 5 apps you have open.Although some of us have been praising voice over's impressiveness, it still has quite a few extremely annoying bugs. If you press the capslock key while messing with trackpad commander, voice over kindly beeps in complaint, and you cannot use the trackpad unless you command tab out of the current app, or press fn. A few others include the capslock bug I mentioned earlier, to voice over acting very strangely on the OSX log on screen. The nice thing is that if you can't find a way around a bug, which is pretty rare for me, you can restart vo, it takes no more than a second and a half.Anyway, hope all of this information was useful, and it wasn't too overwhelming. URL:
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare If you don't like Alex, you should try Alison, she sounds like a 30 year old school librarian, not a 45 year old X cheerleader who opens her mouth too wide when she talks like Samantha does; that's probably just me though...Some people also like Thom, but I personally think he sounds like someone's nerdy scientist dad.Those are all English U.S. by the way. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=248494#p248494 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare Somebody mentioned the Dock.When you have the time on your own Mac, do a VO+Shift+M to get a context menu on any item that's described as a folder, and choose the option to view it as a list. Now it's an accessible menu, instead of a pretty much unusable stack. You can also add the Applications folder to your Dock and use it as a kind of Windows Start menu equivalent. Yeah sure, very clunky, and really just opening Applications in Finder is a lot easier (Command-Shift-A) but it's still quite cute to have a way to launch all apps from the Dock, even those you did not add in yourself. FWIW, LaunchPad does work, but I rarely if ever use it because meh, this is a Mac, not a flaming iPad. As always, the information you need is in VoiceOver help (VO-questionmark). Just search for Dock; it's the first hit for me.And yeah, I'm quite an Alex fan to o. Sure, it's no eloquence, but it definitely gets the job done once you've learned its little quirks. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=248520#p248520 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare It's funny you mention object navigation. When I tried to learn it, it seemed so convoluted and I had very slight success, so I was dreading the interaction aspect of vo because I figured it would be similar. I was really surprised when I ended up loving interaction. I couldn't imagine using my mac without it. It's especially useful when you can scroll past a frame of ads in one press of the right arrow key, swipe, or however you choose to navigate. Anyway, coming back to NVDA, I've discovered I can't use object navigation at all anymore. roflWhen I got my MBP, I was just as astonished when the machine made no sound whatsoever. I would joke about how my other computers, I at least knew they were on when they stopped working and I stopped receiving audio, but here I couldn't even tell that! Luckily, force touch trackpads are a very useful way of telling whether the machine is on or not.Just a few tips that I can remember, in a completely random order:1. The function keys are actually very useful even for a voice over user, but the best way to use them is with the fn key. I believe someone gave directions to changing what the keys do by default, but if you want them to perform their alternative function, you use the fn key. E.G. if they're set to the mode that caused you to accidentally mute everything, you'd press fn+command+f5 to enable vo. These keys are useful, though because f1 and f2 lower and raise screen brightness, for those times you want to conserve battery life and screen curtain is on, while f7, f8, and f9 act as previous track, play/pause, and next track respectively in ITunes and perhaps other media players that support them.2. Do not use the dock. Well, you can, but using it as an app launcher is pointless when you have spotlight. Remember the lovely start menu search box? Spotlight is just that, but many times better. It can open specific applications, search for specific files by type , last modified and many other bits of metadata, perform web searches, etc. It even has very limited natural language processing. you can type something like "files I edited last week." and it will show you all of the files you edited last week. It's really neat, but apart from simple requests like that, it's not very intelligent. Oh and it can also query the OSX calculator. Spotlight will be able to serve you nicely forever, unless you decide to acquire an app launcher like launchbar, which gives you even more impressive functionality.3. You don't need to use control+option, unless you're messing with password fields. By default, voice over is set to use capslock as a voice over modifier, starting in El Capitan. I say the bit about password fields because there's an annoying bug that causes the capslock key to be held down when pressed while editing a password edit field.4. When starting out, trackpad commander is your friend. Won't say much more about that because I know people were talking about it on the other thread.5. read this: http://www.applevis.com/guides/mac-os-x … s-x-finderUnless you're like me and used the terminal to manipulate files at first, you will need that knowledge right away.6. on OSX, command tab does not move between windows. though it's functionality is identical to alt tabbing on windows, it differs in the fact that it moves between applications rather than windows. If you want to move between windows, you would press command `. One example of this is if you had three documents open in text edit, you would not move between the three by command tabbing, but by being inside of text edit, and using command ` to move between the three files. There are also other windows, such as some popups that you cannot command ` to. you access these by using voice over's window chooser, accessible by pressing Vo+f2 twice, or double tapping the right side of the trackpad.7. Although command tab makes a nice app switcher, you can also use spotlight for the same purpose. Generally, only one copy of an app will run at a time, so activating spotlight with command space, typing part of the app name and pressing enter will switch focus to that app, and you don't have to command tab through the 5 apps you have open.Although some of us have been praising voice over's impressiveness, it still has quite a few extremely annoying bugs. If you press the capslock key while messing with trackpad commander, voice over kindly beeps in complaint, and you cannot use the trackpad unless you command tab out of the current app, or press fn. A few others include the capslock bug I mentioned earlier, to voice over acting very strangely on the OSX log on screen. The nice thing is that if you can't find a way around a bug, which is pretty rare for me, you can restart vo, it takes no more than a second and a half.Anyway, hope all of this information was useful, and it wasn't too overwhelming. URL:
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare @wanderer,Currently using Samantha at 50, can't go any faster at the moment, but that's what i'm used to on my iOS device, as well. Some peple love Alex; that breathing thing just, gets to me and makes me all sorts of angry and frustrated and irritated and aggravated. I tried some of the other things they have on there, which I am convinced are just, there for show and amusement, since that's what I really got out of them. Princess? That thing sounds older than my grandmother. :d@arq,I am having loads of fun indeed! Or at least I am, when my wife isn't using the thing, which is to say, um, I'm sort of having fun, I guess. Even watching her on the thing is kind of fun though. lol URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=248487#p248487 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare Was going to attempt a post with H for the breathing effect, but realized how lame that would be. I just hate that I have to slow it down so much, which consequently slows my usage of the device. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=248532#p248532 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare I'm curious what you have the speech rate set to; I can only use Alex to read long passages that aren't system-related at about 50. You probably know this by now, but VO-D will get you to the dock (analogous to the Windows Taskbar) VO-M twice will bring up the status menus (like the system tray, kind of) and to get to all your applications do Command-N from the desktop, then use the sidebar to find the Applications folder. I'll be closely following this thread and contributing where I can, as I'm also playing around with OS X. Remember also keyboard help can be turned on with VO-K, and you can bring up a help menu at any time with VO-H, which has on-the fly command references and other handy stuff. As with iOS you can turn on Screen Curtain with a 3-finger tripple-tap on the trackpad (assuming trackpad commander is on, VO-rotate right to enable) or with VO-Shift-F11. You might want to go to system preferences and under keyboard turn on the option along the line s of "Use function keys as standard keys"; maybe not on the Air depending on how you're wife likes it, but probably the Mini since you're coming from Windows. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=248464#p248464 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare if you've been following my posts recently, you know that I just lost my home, thus most of my windows equipment. You also know that about a week before this happened, I ordered a Mac Mini. What you probably didn't know is that my wife got a MacBook Air as an early Valentine present. She's had experience with macs before now; I have not. Being the curious soul that I am I stole her mac for about 30 minutes while I jealously await my Mini and morn the loss of my Windows desktop. I turned it on, hit command f5 and...It felt just as clunky as I thought it would. Even if you want to get past the fact that the VO modifier keys play an important role on how you do just about everything on OSX which is a completely different experience from windows world, there's no nothing to really tab to on a new desktop, because, well, as Voiceover wisely pointed out, it's empty! There's nothing to interact with! No s tartbutton, no taskbar, no system tray! Oh yeah! It seems like all of the function keys actually like, do something, you know? I muted that thing twice before I realized that's what I was doing! I never had that happen on windows before! And the VO getting started tutorial? I couldn't make heads or tails of it for roughly, 10 minutes! Because, it was, actually, instructing me, and I was trying to get ahead of it! You know? Like I do on windows? Where nothing is really explained to you and you have to go google the answer? You read this and that article on how to customize some obscure setting within some obscure area of some subsection of a section of the control panel? or maybe you're supposed to hit the applications key on the startbutton and get a context menu with a bunch of items that mean absolutely nothing to you because you're a beginner? Well, none of that on MAC!And you know what? I like it! I have much to get used to, and I'm not going to pretend that this is better than windows. It's kind of hard to break away from where you grew up and get used to the idea that this is not where you are anymore when you actually take one of these devices into your hands and start toying with it. Voiceover feels like constant object navigation with NVDA, times a kagillion, on steroids! With caffeine on the side! It tells you everything if you don't tell it not to! Buttons on toolbars have never been this accessible on windows! The type of element you're dealing with in an application might seem like nonsense at first, and there is probably a ton of other seemingly spurious information presented to you, but none of it is unimportant at all! Does it slow you down? I'd say it does, particularly if you're used to paying attention to every little detail, because windows and windows scr een readers minimise the amount of detail presented to you. The tradeoff, however, is that if you're truly interested in acquiring a greater sense of appreciation for how apps are truly laid out, VO will quite nicely do the trick!As an added bonus, I plugged in a set of earbuds, just, because. Because I'm weird that way, and i care about audio, and shut up! My earbuds have in-line volume control! I used it! It worked! This thing is loud! And sounds good! I can't do that with windows, either! The volume and sound quality on windows devices is variable, a complete hit and miss bunch of nonsense that doesn't remain solid, anymore than the hardware on windows computers remains solid. You can't pick up an HP PC that resembles or is made for the purpose of competeing against a Dell model and expect sound to be the same or for volume to be equivalent to it!But here's where it got really co ol. I unplugged the earbuds and... Shut up! Stop laughing at my nerdy self! Seriously! I unplugged my earbuds and the volume on the external speakers remained the same! The same as when I first plugged in the earbuds, I tell you! I never got that on windows before, either! have you ever stopped to try and listen to the motor on one of these babies? Ever tried to feel around and see if you could detect a fan on it? Ever held it in your hand and tried to feel even the slightest amount of vibration? How is it so snappy while maintaining that kind of appearance on the outside? It really appears like some dead peace of flashy 2 pound junk that does nothing! Like some 4 year old child's toy that probably sounds like absolute garbage and only uses 8bit audio and poor representations of real sound? You ever seen something like that?And yet, underneath the casing is perhaps the most powerful machine I
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare
Re: Before the Mini: Using an Aire To Prepare Nice post and i concur with your conclusions, having a macbook air myself. Since i can regularly switch between windows and OSX at will, i can tell you that yes, if your used to windows, things are going to be done quicker from that platform. However, you get faster and faster on the mac as days pass. I would recommend checking out applevis.com, and checking out the getting started on the mac guides that they have posted. I have learned countless little tips from there, for example, if your on a file, or a link, you can press voiceover keys, shift, and M to enter the windows equivalent of the context menu. Seems like a handful of keys to press, but you get used to that as well. Good luck, and have fun. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=248423#p248423 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
