Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By The thought of eternal, or nearly eternal, is scary. Same with the idea of the infinite.I admit that those things scare me. We are tiny, insignificant.But what they do not do is make me clutch for something, anything to feel better about them. I may be afraid of those concepts in an abstract way, and perhaps I will panic when I am close to death and pondering the inevitable, but to me, that doesn't actually mean much. It doesn't put forward any proof for anything divine. It doesn't mean that my fear is actually even justified. It just means that my tiny little human mind is quailing at something much too big for it.But see, this is why I'm basically an agnostic. I'm not saying there flat-out -can't be something out there. But I'm hard convinced it is way, way beyond our control. It's not a Christian, Muslim, Hindu or other religious figure. It's probably so far outside of my comprehension that I can't understand it. If it did have some sort of nebulous hand in morality, that's cool and all, but as for any dogma attached to any religion? That's just a comforting architecture that people use in order to interface with something otherwise beyond them. If that interface is harmless, go for it. If it's harmful, it needs to be rearticulated. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/495643/#p495643 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I do hate the it's just god and you have to accept it mentality. Yes, I believe God is paradoxical, mysterious and enigmatic. No, I do not believe God is unknowable. Yes, I do believe there are absolutes. No, I do not believe we know them as well as we think we do. Yes, I do believe in a heaven and a hell. No, I do not believe it is my place to tell you who is definitely going there. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/495617/#p495617 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @70 There is the other side of the coin though, which is a comfort in knowing a supreme essentially good being is running the cosmos so everything will work out in the end somehow. I don't like the idea of just ending when I die, I would love for there to be something more. So my belief that there doesn't seem to be is definitely not because that is what I would prefer to think, rather just that it doesn't make sense given everything I know that there can be. It would be nice if there was order to everything, some grand plan that was guiding everything. Also the safety of having something greater than you or any threat to you on your side. And like you said having true justice, rather than the imperfect human justice we currently have. Those ideas would bring me comfort, but I just can't find a justification to believe in them. Also, I (and I'm sure most people) wouldn't consider what you say to be the result of hate-filled motives, just because I think a particular religion (or an idea in general for that matter) is problematic doesn't mean I think that of every individual who subscribe to it.Ultimately arguing is pointless in the sense that it is very rare for anyone to actually end up changing their minds from it, especially on something as profound as this, but I still enjoy it because I find it interesting to see how others think and how they approach things. So I do appreciate you explaining the way you see things rather than locking down like many people tend to do in similar situations. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/495609/#p495609 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @69 Well and as has already been pointed out before, something can have a completely different context where morality is concerned just depending on why the action is being taken. Stealing is wrong; we can agree on that for the most part. But what if you're stealing nuclear codes away from a known enemy to save millions of lives that are all hanging in the balance if you don't steal said codes?It's no secret that I've been a Christian for the better part of five years. There are parts of my faith that will never make sense to many, things that even I struggle to comprehend, and that comprehension sometimes gives me pause when it comes to full on acceptance. Here's what I do strongly believe though, and I dare you in friendly fashion to keep reading to see if in fact you do see a little of yourself in these lines. I won't take offense if you decide not to and believe me, I'm not excluding myself from any of this, because this is me more or less all the way. I also don't expect you to admit to any of it; this is entirely personal. My reason for disclosing it is simply to showcase the way I perceive things at present.1. We all long to be in control of our lives rather than risking the possibility of our lives and very existence being contingent and dependent on an enigmatic entity. why is that? Because that would make such an entity greater than ourselves, and regardless whether or not we want to admit it to ourselves or not, this would actually mean that it's not a question of whether we are interested in said being that matters, but whether said being is interested in us. to further illustrate what I'm getting at lets take a simple senario into consideration. Suppose you're fishing from inside a boat; the weather's wonderful, you've got a cooler full of good drinks and another stocked with foodables to pass the time. Perhaps you're with friends and you're all enjoying yourselves. It would not surprise you to feel a pull on the line, because that's what you would normally feel if you were fishing. All of a sudden though, you sense that somehow the pull is a lot stronger, mightier than any tug you've ever felt at the end of the line. You're not sure if you can match it in your own human strength, and the idea enters your head for the first time ever, that there's a possibility that what you thought you were hunting, just, just, might actually have been hunting you all along.2. the idea of anything being infinite is not a good or comforting one because we are finite. IN our limited state we would not be able to box it, shelve it, catalog it into a set of textbooks, journals or other such chronicle. We could write about it in so much as we understand it but could never hope to truly plumb its depths or soar to its heights in an attempt to fully comprehend it. Science tells us a lot of how things work but allways falls short on telling us why they should. Religion is the other way around, telling us why things should be a certain way but never quite giving us a satisfactory guideline and making loopholes for itself along the way so that people end up with their own interpretations and conveniences on the how. Philosophical thinking is the bridge between the two but is full of abstract questions the average person does not want to take the time to answer, and all of these take backseats to something we all want right here and right now known as instant self-gratification.3. If truth is not knowable, then you don't have to worry about knowing or not knowing it. If morality is subjective, then you owe it to noone but yourself. If all things are meaningless, then nothing, end of story. As much as we like all of these ideas on the surface, we all cringe at these ideas when they come into play in our personal lives. Your neighbor punching you in the face is true because he punched you in the face and it hurts. Whatever he says to the contrary is a lie; the bruise blossoming on your eye is evidence of the fact. Your neighbor should be held accountable.And that is the overall truth in this case. If all morality is subjective, the only other thing we have to worry about where accountability is concerned is humans, which we have already established are equall in all respects. If morality is objective, then there is an entity that is entirely untouched and uninfluenced by our ways or our thoughts. In the former case, justice may or may not prove true depending on how actions are interpreted by whoever holds the reigns and the power to punish based on their reasoning and ability to deduce from said reasoning. Sadly, no human is perfect, thus reducing the chances of true justice that much more. On the other hand, if morality is objective, true justice is going to be something beyond our finite minds and beyond our finite ways.And no, I
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I also just want to way in on the morality thing. The way I see it, morality is generally pretty subjective. Let's take something as obvious as killing someone is bad. That's something we can all agree on, right? Most cultures and religions have a few basic rules like this in some form. But thing is, there are always exceptions, and that's where the disagreements come in. Religious groups have their exceptions, for example in the bible and quran killing seems to be justified in some cases, like when god told the jews to invade Canaan and kill the previous occupants (whether this is historically accurate or not, the point is a religion's holy book portrays this as acceptable). Another example is states with laws against murder administering capital punishment, in effect legalising some form of killing. The issue I have with absolute morality is that you are not allowed to question it, you have to go from the assumption that it is right and then figure out why, which to me is a backward way of thinking about something. Doesn't it make more sense to debate something and decide if it's really the right way to go about it? There are a lot of things that christian and muslim morality dictates that I find pretty immoral by my standards. But at least in the arguments I've had with religious people they seem unable to accept this, rather attempting (and often failing) to justify the sometimes seemingly unjustifiable because if their book says their god said so, then it has to be good and right and moral no matter what. I personally feel like a better approach to morality would be to empirically identify the impact of actions, and base your morality on that. I don't see why people can't be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it has no impact on other people. To take the alcohol example, we can inform people about the negative health consequences of drinking, but if they still want to drink despite that it should be their choice, we shouldn't decide for someone what they can and can't do with their own body. But when it comes to drunk driving we have a right to do something because then they're endangering others, and infringing on their rights to be safe on the road. Essentially I'm saying you shouldn't have a say in what someone else does unless it effects or can effect you. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/495337/#p495337 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By 65-66, thanks, I didn't know that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494614/#p494614 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @66 that explains why i got drank after dreanking just a glass of red wine. As a side note i have a crazy metabolism i can never get fat, and i am truely skynny.will you provide your resources? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494572/#p494572 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @66 that explains why i got drank after dreanking just a glass of red wine. As a side note i have a crazy metabolism i can never get fat, and i am truely skynny. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494572/#p494572 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Yeah, I've taken psychology classes and whatnot, and knew about the 0.35 thing. It's not too easy to reach, but it's not impossible. Actually, it's easier to reach for small, skinny people in particular, or for folks who have metabolic issues. For instance, someone who has weight loss surgery absorbs alcohol differently, and can get drunk on way, way less. Someone I know has had a surgery where if they drink alcohol, they can get short-term drunk on a shot and a half, and could probably die if they slammed two or three glasses of hard liquor because their blood alcohol level would spike really fast. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494570/#p494570 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Ethin, this is apparently coomon surprisingly. The reason is that alchohol is not instantly absorbed, so someone could drink alot, and then their blood levels could rise, and they could hit 0.35 after passing out. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494547/#p494547 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @63, I've never heard of someone drinking that much alcohol. You'd be suffering far worse side effects long before you hit 0.24-0.28, much less 0.35. If your concious by the time you hit 0.32-0.35 then you've got one hell of a metabolism. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494445/#p494445 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @63, I've never heard of someone drinking that much alcohol. You'd be suffering far worse side effects long before you hit 0.24-0.28, much less 0.35. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494445/#p494445 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Jayde, when I took a psychology class, there was a table on the chapter on altered states of consciousness describing what different blood levels of alcohol could do. I remember 0.35 is on level with anesthesia, and that death is possible likely because of supression of respiration and other reflexes at this level. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494440/#p494440 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By The long-term risks of alcohol use are also well-known. It'll trash your liver, it's linked to Alzheimer's among other things, and it can straight-up kill you if you get too drunk. It is possible to drink yourself to death, though it's not easy to do. There's more, but those are the big ones.A glass of wine with dinner three times a week? Sure. A beer or two on a hot afternoon? Knock yourself out. Drinking to excess? Bad idea. Same goes with pot. Same goes with other recreational things as well.I'm all for having fun, but I'm big on being responsible with it. Don't destroy your body; it's...kinda the only one you've got. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494438/#p494438 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Going back to 53, the idea that pot is dangerous over time to the mind in an argument does not hold water when the same people would probably consume alcohol, which has been linked to Alzheimer's. BTW, not saying Jayde used that as an argument since he's obviously in favor of Marijuana to some degree, just found it amusing. Also? I've tried both; Marijuana didn't do anything to or for me. Perhaps it was the strain? I don't know... I just haven't tried again in like 10ish years. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494432/#p494432 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By It seems there was a bit of confusion, Jayde. I apologize, I wasn't referring to you when I made the post. I was more referring to the other person asking Haily if she legally changed her name. My bad for the confusion there.Corporations nowadays are getting too big for their own good. For example, Sweden came up with a term, (Ogooglebar), which was supposed to refer to terms that couldn't be found on search engines. Google hit the Swedish government with a lawsuit demanding they make the term exclusive to Google, and instead of doing that, they removed the word from their dictionary. This demonstrates that Google definitely has power over some governments. What's worse? It's unregulated power, so they can do with it what they so choose. I fear the day Google overpowers every single government in the world do to it's sheer size and starts dictating how everything is run, and it looks like that day won't be far off unless we all stand together and try to do something about it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494366/#p494366 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By It seems there was a bit of confusion, Jayde. I apologize, I wasn't referring to you when I made the post. I was more referring to the other person asking Haily if she legally changed her name. My bad for the confusion there. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494366/#p494366 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Yeah, you did get things snagged up a little bit, because I was, and am, in support of referring to people how they wish, whether that be with name, pronoun or whatever.I have no idea what exactly made pot illegal, but I bet you it wasn't helped along by America's hatred of socialism. Seriously, do the math. "hippies" smoke pot. Lots of "hippies" are just dirty socialists, right? So it makes sense, at least to me, why they'd do that.We're getting to a point where corporations are actually stronger than government in some cases.Oh and also? Tax? yes, I'm with you entirely. Stephen King is another example who said he wants to be taxed way harder to take some of the burden off the impoverished. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494363/#p494363 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Jayde in post 51, you might be right about me getting things a bit tangled up. The idea I was trying to share was that if people can refer to me by my non-legal name because it's a username, then people can show Hailey the same respect. I was never asked if Dan was my legal name, because it never really mattered too much. It was the name I chose to go by on the forum, and everyone went with it. Also, IMO Dan roles off of the tongue better than Garrett, but that's just my opinion. I don't really have a preference, so long as nobody calls me Dannyboy again. As for pot, I definitely agree it should become legal. I think it only became illegal because some government official came up with some bullshit story about how it turned this one kid into an axe wielding murderer. None of this was actually accurate of course; the kid was just a psychopath who just so happened to smoke weed. However, like most government officials love to do, he twisted the story so as to make people think it was all the fault of the hemp plant. Why? Because hemp can be made into so many things, such as clothees. Because of the fact that hemp could have easily replaced most of the products making the rounds already and this guy didn't want hemp to start making a monopoly or whatever, they spun this story to drive fear into people and make sure this plant couldn't be sold. I'm going to go ahead and say that no, I haven't researched this and I don't really know this 100 percent happened. What I am saying is I am super inclined to believe it, because think about it. We're talking about the government. The government would do anything for their next dollar. Why do you think they're so reluctant to drop a lawsuit on big companies like Google/Facebook for all the clearly illegal practices they indulge in that they couldn't possibly get away with if they weren't online companies? Because if they did, they wouldn't be earning as much money. These companies and the government have a symbiotic relationship. They throw the government a bone and get to do pretty much anything they want in return. Honestly at this point, would you really put anything past the government of any country nowadays? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494361/#p494361 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Jayde in post 51, you might be right about me getting things a bit tangled up. The idea I was trying to share was that if people can refer to me by my non-legal name because it's a username, then people can show Hailey the same respect. I was never asked if Dan was my legal name, because it never really mattered too much. It was the name I chose to go by on the forum, and everyone went with it. Also, IMO Dan roles off of the tongue better than Garrett, but that's just my opinion. I don't really have a preference, so long as nobody calls me Dannyboy again. As for pot, I definitely agree it should become legal. I think it only became illegal because some government official came up with some bullshit story about how it turned this one kid into an axe wielding murderer. None of this was actually accurate of course; the kid was just a psychopath who just so happened to smoke weed. However, like most government officials love to do, he twisted the story so as to make people think it was all the fault of the hemp plant. Why? Because hemp can be made into so many things, such as clothees. Because of the fact that hemp could have easily replaced most of the products making the rounds already and this guy didn't want hemp to start making a monopoly or whatever, they spun this story to drive fear into people and make sure this plant couldn't be sold. I'm going to go ahead and say that no, I haven't researched this and I don't really know this 100 percent happened. What I am saying is I am super inclined to believe it, because think about it. We're talking about the government. The government would do anything for their next dollar. Why do you think they're so reluctant to drop a lawsuit on big companies like Google/Facebook for all the clearly illegal practices they indulge in that they couldn't possibly get away with if they weren't online companies? Because if they did, they wouldn't be earning as much money. These companies and the government have a symbiotic relationship. They throw the government a bone and get to do pretty much anything they want in return. Honestly at this point, would you really put anything past the government of any country nowadayshi? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494361/#p494361 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Hi Jayde,I really think taxation wasn't emphasized enough here. If you need any kind of proof that the taxation system in the US is fundementally broken, just go over to Bill Gates's blog and read his post where he describes some of the problems with it.https://www.gatesnotes.com/About-Bill-G … eview-2019If Bill Gates, one of the richest men in the world, can come to the conclusion that there is something really wrong with the tax system, then it is really obvious that there is something wrong. Specifically, tax distribution isn't progressive in nature, while before the trump tax law, Fedex payed 1.5 billion in taxes, t when the law took effect, not only did fedex pay zero taxes, but the government owed them money.https://www.businessinsider.com/fedex-i … es-2019-11On the opposit end of the spectrum, the US taxes all income, regardless of whether it was earned in the US, or whether you were resident. That includes scholarship income. For example in my situation, in Turkey and the United Kingdom, where I received scholarships, they are not taxable. However, as they are taxable in the US, I will actually have to pay well over $1500 in taxes, which is a huge blow. Also, conservative states have really regressive tax systems where you don't pay income tax, but you have a sky high sales tax, a move which makes the poor and working class pay, as they makemore purchases, while the rich can keep the money out of sales taxes through investmenets etc. This should change to shift more of the tax burdin onto those who can actually aford to pay. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494293/#p494293 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Hi Jayde,I really think taxation wasn't emphasized enough here. If you need any kind of proof that the taxation system in the US is fundementally broken, just go over to Bill Gates's blog and read his post where he describes some of the problems with it.https://www.gatesnotes.com/About-Bill-G … eview-2019If Bill Gates, one of the richest men in the world, can come to the conclusion that there is something really wrong with the tax system, then it is really obvious that there is something wrong. Specifically, tax distribution isn't progressive in nature, while before the trump tax law, Fedex payed 1.5 billion in taxes, t when the law took effect, not only did fedex pay zero taxes, but the government owed them money.https://www.businessinsider.com/fedex-i … es-2019-11On the opposit end of the spectrum, the US taxes all income, regardless of whether it was earned in the US, or whether you were resident. That includes scholarship income. For example in my situation, in Turkey and the United Kingdom, where I received scholarships, they are not taxable. However, as they are taxable in the US, I will actually have to pay well over $1500 in taxes, which is a huge blow. Also, conservative states have really regressive tax systems where you don't pay income tax, but you have a sky high sales tax, a move which makes the poor and working class pay, as they makemore purchases, while the rich can keep the money out of sales taxes through investmenets etc. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494293/#p494293 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By As far as I'm aware, it's physically impossible to OD on pot to the point where you die. You'll pass out first, then probably wake up feeling absolutely horrible. Even if you, I dunno, wolfed a whole bunch of brownies or something, it takes a lot of marijuana to kill someone. The same is not necessarily true of alcohol, though it's still not extremely easy to do.Tobacco isn't nearly as widely advertised anymore, but the harm that tobacco has done can be measured at least in the tens of billions of dollars. Sure, it makes some people a crapton of money, but then it also wrecks the lives of most people who become habituated to it. Probably the reason it hasn't been cracked down on is because there are no obvious side effects of immediate use (i.e., you don't get sloppy or silly or surly or mean, you don't have impaired judgment as a result of tobacco use). In fact, in short bursts, both caffeine and nicotine tend to sharpen one's senses a little and improve one's reflexes. There's just that big problem of being hooked through the gills if you get going on it, that's all.Then, of course, there's everyone's favourite elephant: caffeine. Look how common coffee is in today's culture. Quite apart from recognizing caffeine as an addictive drug, we have made "coffee culture" a large part of daily life. Now, again, it's not super harmful, but it is absolutely habit-forming; why do you think most people who habitually drink coffee need their fix in the morning?Anyway, I digress. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494288/#p494288 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @53:Agreed. Not to mention that tobacco is still legal, though not as popular and widely advertised; yet it is highly addictive and I read somewhere that it's estimated that direct and indirect affects of its use will kill a billion people by the end of the century. Again, I read somewhere, so don't necessarily take the figure with 100% correctness -- but even if not a billion, definitely more than 0.As for pot being linked to mental illness, no doubt as you said it's fine in moderation, but that's everything. The one thing that pot has going for it is that it would take an absolutely extraordinarily unrealistic amount to overdose oneself on, though the paranoia, nausea, and emotional wrecking of taking too much should teach someone a good lesson. Here's hoping Texas legalizes it one day, though... uh that'll be the day. Wrong kinda green for a red state I suppose. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494283/#p494283 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @53:Agreed. Not to mention that tobacco is still legal, though not as popular and widely advertised; yet it is highly addictive and I read somewhere that it's estimated that direct and indirect affects of its use will kill a billion people by the end of the century. Again, I read somewhere, so don't necessarily take the figure with 100% correctness -- but even if not a billion, definitely more than 0.As for pot being linked to mental illness, no doubt as you said it's fine in moderation, but that's everything. The one thing that pot has going for it is that it would take an absolutely extraordinarily unrealistic amount to overdose oneself on, though the paranoia, nausea, and emotional wrecking of taking too much should teach someone a good lesson. Here's hoping Texas legalizes it one day, though... uh that'll be the day. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494283/#p494283 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @53:Agreed. Not to mention that tobacco is still legal, though not as popular and widely advertised; yet it is highly addictive and I read somewhere that it's estimated that direct and indirect affects of its use will kill a billion people by the end of the century. Again, I read somewhere, so don't necessarily take the figure with 100% correctness -- but even if not a billion, definitely more than 0.As for pot being linked to mental illness, no doubt as you said it's fine in moderation, but that's everything. The one thing that pot has going for it is that it would take an absolutely extraordinarily unrealistic amount to overdose oneself on. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494283/#p494283 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @53, yes, side trips are epic. Yes, I fully agree. The fear around marijuana seems... a bit overkill. Hate to say "follow the majority" here, but its really what needs to happen. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494280/#p494280 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Speaking of marijuana for just a sec - I love side trips, don't you? - I firmly believe that it should have been legalized decades ago. Alcohol has been legal pretty much forever, and I think that most things which apply to alcohol should have just been applied to pot. i.e., don't get stoned and drive, don't get stoned in public and then cause mischief, stuff like that.I don't smoke pot, myself. I've been high all of once before, at a concert where tons of people around me were smoking...and even then, I don't think I got all that high. So this is absolutely not a case where I am advocating for something that I want. Hell, it's legal in Canada now anyway, and legal in a bunch of states as well, even though many companies and corporations still haven't updated their drug tests and policies to match.I won't go so far as to say that weed is harmless though. Pot can have a pretty strong affect on a growing brain, to enough of an extent that it's been linked to mental illness in cases where it's overused during one's teenage years. The occasional joint, or the occasional drink, is not really going to hurt anyone if enjoyed responsibly, so I'm glad that we've finally gotten to a point where both things are treated similarly and fairly openly. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494278/#p494278 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @48, LOL I agree with you there.@49, very good post. Generally I think I can say (for most of us) that we call you by your forum username because either (1) we don't know your actual name and/or (2) we respect the fact that you have a "username", which is an "alternate identity", of sorts, and we respect the fact that you may wish to remain anonymous in the sense that you don't want others to know who you are on this forum unless you explicitly reveal that information.I really no longer have a reason to complain about gender transitions. Before I read the article I pointed out in the Bloodbath topic, I was extremely confused on the phraseology that I'd heard everyone use, and so my complaining was mainly me attempting to rationalize something that (it turned out) was illogical in wording, but logical in sentiment. When the wording of a statement is illogical, however, the logical mind will be unable to find that logical sentiment, and so will continue to attempt to rationalize something that makes no logical sense because critical information is missing. That article gave me the critical bits of information I desperately needed to understand that, and that allowed me to, at least, understand what it was all about. Before I had read that though, I was quite happy to find anything to tryto undersand, and so came up with some kind of explanation, insane asit might be. I can no longer hold that explanation.As for actually being disrespectful and/or negative towards people who do decide to change gender or whatnot, I really have no right to do so (given that one of my friends, themselves, is transgender). I will respect someones decisions, even if I disagree with them. For example, if someone decides to take drugs (legal ones, i.e. weed) or drink alcohol, I'll caution them and ensure that they do it responsibly, but I will not actually stop them uless the only outcome I can see is harm befalling them. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494276/#p494276 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I call Haily by Haily because that's what she prefers to be known as. Before I knew about her transition, I, like most other people, called her Charlie, and thought she identified as male.As for you though, Garrett, it's simple. I have been referring to you as Dan or Dan_Gero because that's the forum name you chose. If you had or have a preference, then I'll take that into consideration.I feel like you've got stuff all tangled up here and have completely missed the point. I use forum names when I see them because a lot of people do not, in fact, want their real names used. There are a couple of forum users whose first names I know but do not use, precisely for this reason. If I know a person's gender, I will use it. If I don't, I can't be faulted for what I do not know.It bears mentioning that I was actually calling people out for the birth-name argument, not trying to insist that it was valid. If someone wants you to refer to them a certain way and you stick to "this is your birth name so it's what I'm gonna call you", then that's potentially antagonistic.Any further questions? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494271/#p494271 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @48 Very well sayed, for i have the same problem with my perantss, that you have mentioned It is very bad when they do that.As for my views i am sceptical towrds religion, and and the power of those who practice it. But at the same time i stand against sscientism and it's various forms.For the topic of freedom, i think we have to understand betterhow politics works, and how it should work.For some thing like politics is calling for the power hungry among us.Mostly when i was talking about magority i was talking about democracy.Probably wewould need a more decentralised goverment though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494254/#p494254 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @48 Very well poot, for i have the same problem with my perantss, that you have mentioned It is very bad when they do that.As for my views i am sceptical towrds religion, and and the power of those who practice it. But at the same time i stand against sscientism and it's various forms.For the topic of freedom, i think we have to understand betterhow politics works, and how it should work.For some thing like politics is calling for the power hungry among us.Mostly when i was talking about magority i was talking about democracy.Probably wewould need a more decentralised goverment though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494254/#p494254 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Jayde, if you don't mind, I'm going to briefly comment on the topic that inspired this one. I would have posted this in the Bloodbath topic, but I don't wish to derail it any further and I feel this topic will do quite nicely. Plus, this ties nicely into your sentiment about respecting our fellow human beings, no matter what walk of life they're in.I saw the comment asking the OP if she legally changed her name. I'd like to start out by reiterating that my name is not actually Daniel Gero. My legal name, printed on official documentation, the name on my ID card, and the name which everyone refers to me by off forum is Garrett Brown. Nevertheless, a lot of you continue to refer to me as Daniel, Dan, or sometimes Danny/Dannyboy. BTW, not a huge fan of being called Dannyboy, but I digress. Very few of you refer to me as Garrett.I don't care what you guys choose to refer to me as, both Dan and Garrett will work for me. However, let me ask you this. Why do you refer to me by my forum username rather than my legal name? Is it because it's easier to remember me as Dan, or is it because you believe that I don't wish to be referred to by my legal name and you're calling me Dan out of respect? If it's the latter statement, then why can't you show the same respect for Hailey? Likewise if it's the former statement, would it be safe to assume that you're going out of your way to refer to her by her birth name to antagonize her and force your views upon her?I must also point out that in some games, I have given myself a female name, because my character in said game was female. By this same logic, would you start screaming at me for playing a female character on that game because it goes against your views? If the answer to that question is no, then why couldn't you treat Hailey with the same respect you would give me in a game? On the other side of the coin, if the answer to that question is yes, then I will politely suggest that you take a long, hard look at your views on the world and contemplate whether or not you should work on changing them a little bit.I'm now about to go into my beliefs, so that I can make it clear where I stand in this matter. Feel free to skip past this if you wish.As I said before, my name is Garrett, and I'm a strait white cisgender male. I'm about as bland as you can get. I'm also from the southern United States, so think of that what you will. I absolutely despise politics with all of my heart and soul, and where possible I do my best to avoid them. I would say I have mostly conservative views, however, I am not totally right wing as I do have some liberal views as well. Included in my views is the idea that no matter what someone thinks or does with their body/mind, it's their choice. Therefore, unless they're actively trying to cut me and my views down, I have absolutely no right to judge them. Even if they're judging me, I still owe it to both them and myself to take extreme caution on how I judge them, so as not to cross a line that shouldn't be crossed. I am not attracted to other guys, and I have no desire to change my gender because I am perfectly happy with who I am as a person. That being said, I will not use that as an excuse to come after anyone else just because they're gay or transgender.I hope this gives you all some insight on who I am and where I stand as a person. I try my best to let people know who I am out of the gate so that the other person/people and I can better determine if it's worth communicating with each other without butting heads all the time. If any of you guys do not aggree with one or more of my viewpoints, please do let me know. Who knows, maybe you guys have additional insight into something I didn't even think about. All I ask is that if you disagree with me, please do so civilly, and please also explain your reasoning. With that, I shall end this novel. Later guys! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494221/#p494221 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I used to flummox my parents sometimes. An exchange might go something like this.Me: Can my friend come over and sleep over later?Parent: No.Me: Why not?Parent: Because I said so.Me: You just don't feel like it?Parent: Well we're going out later.Me: You could've just said that.OrMe: I'm gonna stay after school for chess club tomorrow, okay?Parent: No. Come right home.Me: Why?Parent: Because that's what I'm asking you to do.Me: That's not really a reason. Can I have an actual reason why I can't stay after school and do chess club tomorrow? Something that makes sense to me? I won't stay if you don't want me to, but I want to understand why.Parent: Well, I was going to say that you need to be home for when your brother gets home.Me: Even if I stay for chess club, I'll only be gone an hour later than I normally am. He normally gets home like forty minutes after me. So you're saying you don't want him at home for twenty minutes by himself?Brother: Why not? I'm old enough!Other parent: You stay out of this.Parent: Yes, that's what I'm saying. I don't think it's a good idea for him to be home on his own. But then, it is only twenty minutes. So look. We can try it once, see how it goesAnd then the conversation went in a different direction. I did end up staying after school that next day, too, and everything was fine.My parents were not always that rational, by any means, but I was big on the "I'll do what you want, but I want to understand more of the why" angle. At first, when I was much younger, they thought I was just asking why to be difficult, until they came to understand that I just wanted context. To this day, "because I said so" is something I don't like, and will avoid even with other people. My partner has a child from a prior relationship, and even when interacting with him, I try and be gentle if I'm telling him no, or if he asks why in response to it. I feel he's owed at least some sort of explanation, and I give it to him.To me, this whole thing circles back to respecting your fellow humans, and dovetails into something else. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. I'm big on trying to communicate clearly, openly and honestly wherever possible. So, so many relationships and friendships explode because people can't handle their own emotional baggage, much less that of their friend or partner. And what's more, a lot of people don't seem willing to confront how they feel, or how their feelings or actions impacted someone else. It's saddening. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494198/#p494198 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @46, 100-percent agree with you. If someone tells me "Don't do this" or "do this instead" etc I want to know why I should or shouldn't do something. If I don't know the reasons behind doing or not doing something, I'm far less likely to obey the "do/don't do x" request/directive. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494188/#p494188 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @46, 100-percent agree with you. If someone tells me "Don't do this" or "do this instead" etc I want to know why I should or shouldn't do something. If I don't know the reasons behind something, I'm far less likely to do it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494188/#p494188 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Fun fact: the most oft-cited support for "gay is bad" in the Bible is from the book of Leviticus, and I've read several articles suggesting that it's been taken way, way out of context to suit an agenda.I, too, am not going to turn this into a religious debate. Religion belongs in the discussion though, so it's fine.A lot of religious friends I have have absolutely been encouraged to question, if the questions are in good faith (i.e., don't do it just to put sand in the gears, do it because you want to understand). I am okay with this. I think it's good to question stuff, to feel free enough to do so.Never understood how and why certain foods are unclean though. Like, who decided that, and why? If God did, why did he? If someone who wrote/translated/updated the holy book did, also why?I'm not a big fan of authority for authority's sake. I'll give you respect as an individual right from day 1 until or unless you torch it. I'll give you general respect if you stand above me in something, but again, you can lose that respect in a hurry. I will generally respect you as the expert on a given thing until or unless you torpedo yourself. But the "do what I say...because" never, ever sat well with me. I can stomach it when I must, but it always leaves a bad taste afterword. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494177/#p494177 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Agreed. Societal laws can and should be able to change over time. Personal morals can change as we grow as well.As for questioning why things are the way they are, that's one thing I have a problem with when it comes to religion. It seems like people are just expected to follow scripture and trust that their deity has their best interest in mind. My apologies if I'm about to offend anyone.Let's take the bible for example. Specifically the Old Testament. There are rules about the types of foods people should avoid, but there's no explanation a to why they should be avoided other than they're "unclean." It's simply, don't eat this or you'll be unclean, because I said so. Don't do it. One could argue that people simply didn't know the proper way to cook certain things such as shrimp and pork, and thus they were seen as being unclean, but notice God never tells the Israelites why other than the people of the land you're going to do this and it's wrong.There's also the whole thing about homosexual relationships being an abomination. Aside from the fact that such a thing isn't exactly logical in terms of reproduction, why would it be considered an abomination? Why would someone as righteous as God encourage such discrimination? There's no answer given. Simply don't do it because the Lord your God says so.The laws against sex before marriage do make sense to a point. NO doubt sexually transmitted infections existed during those times, so naturally forbidding premarital sex would help prevent sexually transmitted infections to a point. Again, there's no explanation given. Simply don't do it, because, well, just don't do it, because it's disgusting to the Lord your God.If a child asks a parent why they should or shouldn't do something, I sure hope the parent would explain why instead of saying because I said so. Since God is supposed to be everyone's heavenly father, the fact that nothing is ever explained is disturbing to me, especially since God is supposed to be all-knowing.Anyway, I don't wish to hijack this topic and turn it into yet another religious debate. These are just examples I thought of, and again sorry if I ended up offending anyone. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494176/#p494176 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @41, agreed. Anyone and everyone should question why something is the way it is. No one should be prohibited from doing so or believe that they are prohibited from doing so. If people fail to question things, they will never be able to understand why something is the way it is, and if no one questions important things or changes anything, problems will continue to arise until the society in question destroys itself or revolutionizes. Everyone should try to understand how things work, why they're there, and so on. Those six questions (what, why, how, who, and when) are the most important questions to ask, and I feel we need to ask them more than we do now. As a band I like says, question everything! (Though that song that was entitled that was a bit loose with morality. But the part of the message in it -- question everything -- is, to me, the most important part of the song.) URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494165/#p494165 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @41, agreed. Anyone and everyone should question why something is the way it is. No one should be prohibited from doing so or believe that they are prohibited from doing so. If people fail to question things, they will never be able to understand why something is the way it is, and if no one questions important things or changes anything, problems will continue to arise until the society in question destroys itself or revolutionizes. Everyone should try to understand how things work, why they're there, and so on. Those six questions (what, why, how, who, and when) are the most important questions to ask, and I feel we need to ask them more than we do now. As a band I like says, question everything! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494165/#p494165 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @41, agree. Anyone and everyone should questionwhy something is the way it is. No one should be prohibited from doing so or believe that they are prohibited from doing so. If people fail to question things, they will never be able to understand why something is the way it is, and if no one questions important things or changes anything, problems will continue to arise until the society in question destroys itself or revolutionizes. Everyone should try to understand how things work, why they're there, ad so on. Those six questions (what, why, how, who, and when) are the most important questions to ask, and I feel we need to ask them more than we do now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494165/#p494165 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By If you read religious texts, particularly old ones, you'll see how things have been interpreted to suit the norms of the day. We generally don't stone people to death anymore, for instance, yet I believe that this prescription appears in both the Bible and the Quran. If I'm mistaken on this, someone set me straight, but that's been my understanding.As such, I agree with you. We know things now that we didn't know even a hundred years ago. It's really difficult to argue that the earth is only six thousand years old when we know from demonstrable evidence that it's far older than that. That's just one example. I feel that laws, religion, and social norms must be flexible in order to cope with the evolution of the people. If you don't have this, you end up with weird, outdated interpretations that lack current context and ultimately don't work. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494163/#p494163 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I've never believed the "good vs. evil" hogwash. To believe that the world is "good" and "evil" and only "good" and "evil" is close-minded and stupid. The universe has never worked that way and never will.As for the subject of morality, I agree with both 40 and 35. "Majority Rules" is wrong, to me, and doesn't make much sense anyway. If someone steels food or drink from me because they were dying of starvation or thurst, I would know that its wrong, but I'mnot going to rage about it. Hell, I might actually give them more of it, purely on the basis that if I'm able to survive, so should they. 'm not going to give all my food and drink to them, obviously, but I will help them out once and a while. If someone attacks me or steels from me and they have no reason to do so, or I find issues with their reasons, I definitely won't accept that and will defend and protect myself. As for other things -- death, rape, torture, ... _ believe that:(1) Killing anyone is wrong about 99.99 percent of the time. If the person being killed has committed atrocities on a grand scale, I might be a bit more lenient than I probably should be and might even find it acceptable. Abhorrent, yes, but if someone has killed thousands to millions, if not more... well, by that point I really doubt that imprisonment will actually deal with the problem. Will it ultimately cause harm? Yes, it will. I fully acknowledge that. But I'm not going to say that killing is wrong irrespective of what the circumstances are, because certain circumstances (i.e. self defense and such) make it acceptable in my book.(2) Rape is just not cool. Same with torture. Why would you want to put someone through excruciating trauma for someone elses benefit? You might as well put yourself through that same trauma. Imprisonment of those who rape or torture is a good thing.I would love to here opinions and would love to try to answer questions, as this topic is all about this stuff. Love the discussion so far! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494162/#p494162 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I would like to add to post 40 that the laws of a society also need to be open to being changed as things in the world advance. If laws are stuck years behind where the society is, things get into a gray area in terms of what is and isn't legal. I also think that societys need to be open to questioning why things are the way they are. Not necessarily in terms of religion, but more of why they think the things that they do, and be open to listening to different thoughts. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494161/#p494161 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Bladestorm and I used to debate about absolute morality for hours after he became a Christian. His argument was always that all morality stems from God, and that good and evil were universal absolutes. My argument was always that morality is basically common sense, which is basically what the golden rule is, in my opinion. Anyone with an ounce of common sense should be able to figure out that killing, stealing, etc, is morally wrong in most cases, and evil is a point of view. I admit that those conversations were both stimulating and frustrating at the same time for various reasons which I won't get into here. How do I feel about it now? Honestly, I don't know. All I do know is that society needs laws to function properly. What determines how a society should function? Its members, hopefully. If you want a society in which people should be able to do what they wish so long as they don't harm others, you're going to need some laws. Laws are for people who don't know how to behave themselves within the boundaries of a society. Its up to the members of that society to teach the next generation those laws and values so the society can continue to function as intended, and appoint enforcers of those laws to handle people who break the law. This doesn't always work, but I argue that it's better than pure anarchy.What of personal morality that isn't based on societal laws? Where does that come from? Four places that I can think of are morals passed down by family and friends, personal experience, personal reflection, and one's religion of choice. Some people do need religion to tell them how to behave. Others just use it as a guide and already know how to behave. What's scary is when people twist religion and use it to justify things other people consider to be immoral/evil.I think that's all I have for this particular branch of the discussion, at least for now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494151/#p494151 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By We need in a way some kind of morality that is not hidenistic kantian or relativistic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494148/#p494148 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @35 When it comes to those thinks we can not argue for killing and other such things, but i was talking more about the power of other agents on us and on voluntery action of the majority, against minority.Unfortunately, it is sad that our values are dictated by our culture and detrimental to an individual, and in a way one must form a type of metaethical sistem. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494140/#p494140 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @36 True the act it self is more important then the reasoning. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494141/#p494141 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @35 When it comes to those thinks we can not argue for killing and other such things, but i was talking more about the power of other agents on us and on voluntery action of the majority, against minority. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494140/#p494140 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @34 When it comes to those thinks we can not argue for killing and other such things, but i was talking more about the power of other agents on us and on voluntery action of the majority, against minority. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494140/#p494140 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Ah, so its more the act itself, not reasoning behind it. I think that's what you're saying. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494139/#p494139 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By No, it absolutely does not come down to a case of majority rules. It's a matter of harm.Whether or not you think it's wrong, I think you can agree that killing someone is a form of harm. Hurting someone is a form of harm. Mutilating them, raping them, imprisoning them, committing violent or intimidating acts against them...all harm. I would have trouble taking seriously anyone who purports to say that killing someone does not constitute harm of some kind.Of course, the extent of harm is very, very debatable...but again, we're navel-gazing here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494137/#p494137 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @32 It simms not, if you think about it because what person a does not agree on can very well be A, and reflection of his own conflict. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494131/#p494131 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @32 It sims not if you think about it because what person a does not agree on can very well be a reflection of his own conflict. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494131/#p494131 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @32 It sims not if you think about it because what person a does not agree on can very well be a reflection of his own conflict. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494132/#p494132 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @30 I think it would be better if ends will not justify means.We never have to trit some on like a means to and end nor viceverse.Should not the the action matter.In other words the actions are not as important as the way you interact with them.your judgement about some thing is more important then the thing in it self URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494127/#p494127 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @30 yes, that's where i was going with it. But ultimately, how do you think we should set up a system of universal morality, if in the end, we each have our own culture, values, and consider different things to be moral and immoral? I think I understood your post a little different than you intended, but something I got from it, was that as long as most people think its okay, than it is. So, if person A just doesn't like person B, person A can get his friends to agree, and person A then has a good enough reason to harm person B and since most people around him think he had a good enough reason, that makes it okay? Genuinely curious, and I don't disagree, I just like too see where people get their ideas from, and how they see the world. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494128/#p494128 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Morality is one of those things that gets tied up in right and wrong. Something that is right must be moral. Something wrong must be immoral. Not always the case.Most people say stealing is wrong. If I'm starving and I steal food to survive, or to feed someone else who is also starving, to me that's a case of ends justifying means. My theft in that instance is not wrong, or at least, is a tolerable wrong. Given that you, the person I'm stealing from, are very likely not starving, then my taking from you is less wrong than my having to die because I had no means to obtain your spare food. It's a big-picture thing. This is why, even in the laws we live by, there are degrees of certain crimes. Not every murder is premeditated and serves no purpose. Some killings are truly accidental. Some are spurred by circumstance, and had the killer possessed time and/or different resources, they may have reconsidered. Where things get dicey is when it starts to interfere with someone's rights.Most of us would probably agree that punching a dark-skinned person just because they have dark skin is a pretty stupid, ugly thing to do. But hey, maybe the person doing the punching thinks they have a reason. "because I felt like it" is not a good reason. Stealing food has a purpose. Punching someone because they're black simply does not.I think that, past a certain point, this gets into navel-gazing, because most people who aren't sociopathic can generally agree on a few very simplified rules to live by:1. Be kind to one another, and respect the rights of individuals and of people in general2. If you can't be kind, at least don't be unkind3. If you must be unkind, limit the harm you feel you must do to a minimumSo from these tenets, most worthwhile morality springs.If I do have to steal some food from you, and you have plenty, I'm not going to spoil the rest of your food, and I'm not going to kill you in your sleep just because I can. I'm going to take what I need and then get the hell away. Of course, ideally I'm going to try and make a bargain with you first. You give me food, I'll mow your lawn or something. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494124/#p494124 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @28 My problem was not with morality and religion but rather with the blind athority and the colective vs the individual.If we will not standup against our problems this world can very well become a destopic hell.Welkome to the brave new world! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494114/#p494114 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @28 My problem was not with morality and religion but rather with the blind athority and the colective vs the individual.If we will not stand this world can very well become a destopic hell.Welkome to the brave new world! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494114/#p494114 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @28 My problem was not with morality and religion but rather with the blind athority and the colective vs the individual. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494114/#p494114 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I haven't actually made my mind up on the whole morality thing, so here is my ramblings. take them for what you will.Personally, considering morality is so subjective, who is to say what is and isn't moral? You have so many religions pointing to their various books and saying their god is what is moral, but isn't that part of what's causing religious wars? Because their morality doesn't line up? You could have one religion, extremest, sure, but they could think that because something in whatever book they use says to kill nonbelievers, does that then make it okay? No, it shouldn't, murder shouldn't ever be okay, wether its human or animal, but its still considered normal in most places. So, I guess what I'm getting to, and maybe has been answered and I just didn't pick up on it, how do we then set morality as a universal thing that everyone can agree on? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494112/#p494112 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @nocturnus, I for one will use the argument of subjective morality in order to justify the position of the individual against a colective in power. As it is in our wester civilization we value more the colective drive, then an individual, Why? In the end it is a colective that is made of individuals why would the power of a colective be greater then the power of an individual?We have abandoned religion, but now we are slaves to a government aca athority, many are just blind conformists, that is how the religion of the masses becomes the government, and the products they want.For the mass desires and the producers give so goes the economic cycle seek are they all!Consumerism on the horizonHow are we in this situation to go on? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494110/#p494110 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @nocturnus, I for one will use the argument of subjective morality in order to justify the position of the individual against a colective in power. As it is in our wester civilization we value more the colective drive, then an individual, Why? In the end it is a colective that is made of individual why would the power of a colective be greater then the power of an individual?We have abandoned religion, but now we are slaves to a government aca athority, many are just blind conformists, that is how the religion of the masses becomes the government, and the products they want.For the mass desires and the producers give so goes the economic cycle seek are they all!Consumerism on the horizonHow are we in this situation to go on? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494110/#p494110 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @noctornos, I for one will use the argument of subjective morality in order to justify the position of the individual against a colective in power. As it is in our wester civilization we value more the colective drive, then an individual, Why? In the end it is a colective that is made of individual why would the power of a colective be greater then the power of an individual?We have abandoned religion, but now we are slaves to a government aca athority, many are just blind conformists, that is how the religion of the masses becomes the government, and the products they want.For the mass desires and the producers give so goes the economic cycle seek are they all!Consumerism on the horizonHow are we in this situation to go on? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494110/#p494110 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
2020-01-19
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @noctornos, I for one will use the argument of subjective morality in order to justify the position of the individual against a colective in power. As it is in our wester civilization we value more the colective drive, then an individual, Why? In the end it is a colective that is made of individual why would the power of a colective be greater then the power of an individual?We have abandoned religion, but now we are slaves to a government aca athority, many are just blind conformists, that is how the religion of the mases becomes the government, and the products they want.How are we in this situation to go on? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494110/#p494110 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @Jayde, actually? I had no reason other than pure curiosity. Your answer is probably the most well thought out answer I've gotten from someone who claims to be either an agnostic or atheist that wasn't just, "Life sucks and you have to deal with it as is because it is and case closed." It does not change where I stand personally but does give me pause to think about how others perceive the world around them to some degree.As to validating God? As crazy as this is going to sound, particularly coming from a Christian of all people? I believe that's God's business more than mine, which is to say that an all powerful, all knowing and ever present god who loves humanity and wants humanity to serve him out of free will rather than subjugating it entirely? Well, I think you get the point. A little over five years ago I didn't really care about God enough to seek him out. As you can clearly see for yourself if you read post two on this topic, I was once of a mind that truth was a thing that was not knowable. The implications of that statement, however suggests that one knows that truth is not knowable, which is something knowable, making the statement an absolute negation. This is where things get super philosophical and where I'm going to drop them as I don't believe they apply to this conversation nor will they make it anymore worth reading. Either way, I am truly thankful for your response and await to see what others have to say if anything. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494105/#p494105 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Oh, I think I understand now.To me, it's a matter of preservation. You don't necessarily have to teach morality from the ground up. People will do what makes sense to keep themselves alive, but people will also do what makes sense to keep others alive as well. Empathy exists, and is an intrinsic part of most human beings. In some, it is more well-developed than in others. This is true of other animals as well. If you don't believe me, go read up on monkeys and elephants and the way they handle grief, just for one example. Ultimately, we know that life is about us, but also about others. We know that if we wouldn't want something horrible to happen to us, then it would be good if it didn't happen to others either.I'm editing this message to add a question of my own:Do you have a purpose in asking your question?Oftentimes, when folks ask this question in this context, they are trying to validate God, or some sort of higher power, using the existence of morality. My issue with this is that virtually every religious argument out there ends with a logical leap (sometimes bigger than others) that ends with "therefore God". There is no unbroken chain of proof that gets from one end of things to the other, where religion is concerned. At the end of the day, it's down to faith.I am personally of the belief that empathy is a function of intelligence and brain size and evolution, which means that following from this, morality is as well. This is why animals with less ability to reason generally feel less empathy. When some humans do, or when children do, it is because their limbic systems haven't fully matured yet. And then, for the adults that have no morality (or little enough that it makes no difference), that's psychopathy or sociopathy at work. Statistically abnormal, if not insignificant. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494089/#p494089 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Oh, I think I understand now.To me, it's a matter of preservation. You don't necessarily have to teach morality from the ground up. People will do what makes sense to keep themselves alive, but people will also do what makes sense to keep others alive as well. Empathy exists, and is an intrinsic part of most human beings. In some, it is more well-developed than in others. This is true of other animals as well. If you don't believe me, go read up on monkeys and elephants and the way they handle grief, just for one example. Ultimately, we know that life is about us, but also about others. We know that if we wouldn't want something horrible to happen to us, then it would be good if it didn't happen to others either. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494089/#p494089 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @23, this is extremely interesting. It all goes back to the ultimate question of why? Why are we all here, why do we act the way we do, why do we have morals, why is something considered good or evil, why do we obsess so much over money, etc. As far as I know, no one truly has the answers to any of these questions. I spend hours thinking about it, and the only things I can come up with are because we can, it's fun, and we can discuss it with each other. Of course, fun is a very subjective thing as well. What you consider fun is most likely something I absolutely can't stand, and vice versa.People use religion to try to explain things, but the truth is no one knows. Everyone thinks their religion is correct while all others are wrong, which is why I believe religion as a whole is a crock and ignore it altogether. The only thing I can appreciate are the values from Christianity, but this is of course subjective, so does it really matter? The universe is weird. Maybe this is someone or something's experiment, who knows. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494018/#p494018 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @23, this is extremely interesting. It all goes back to the ultimate question of why? Why are we all here, why do we act the way we do, why do we have morals, why is something considered good or evil, why do we obsess so much over money, etc. As far as I know, no one truly has the answers to any of these questions. I spend hours thinking about it, and the only things I can come up with are so we can, it's fun, and we can discuss it with each other. Of course, fun is a very subjective thing as well. What you consider fun is most likely something I absolutely can't stand, and vice versa.People use religion to try to explain things, but the truth is no one knows. Everyone thinks their religion is correct while all others are wrong, which is why I think religion as a whole is a crock and ignore it altogether. The only thing I can appreciate are the values from Christianity, but this is of course subjective, so does it really matter? The universe is weird. Maybe this is someone or something's experiment, who knows. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494018/#p494018 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @23, this is extremely interesting. It all goes back to the ultimate question of why? Why are we all here, why do we act the way we do, why do we have morals, why is something considered good or evil, etc. As far as I know, no one truly has the answers to any of these questions. I spend hours thinking about it, and the only things I can come up with is so we can, it's fun, and we can discuss it with each other. Of course, fun is a very subjective thing as well. What you consider fun is most likely something I absolutely can't stand, and vice versa.People use religion to try to explain things, but the truth is no one knows. Everyone thinks their religion is correct while all others are wrong, which is why I think religion as a whole is a crock and ignore it altogether. The universe is weird. Maybe this is someone or something's experiment, who knows. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494018/#p494018 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @Jayde, I confess the question is somewhat abstract, so let me try to clarify. If morality is subjective then we are left at the mercy of any one person or group of people's subjectivity. To put it simply, you and I know that the loss of life is upsetting, that mass killings are wrong and those who commit such atrocities and any others like them should be punished. We know it because we feel it deep down inside. Conversely, we know that when someone performs an altruistic action they should at the very least be commended and acknowledge for it.The problem is, not everyone thinks or feels that way, and even you or I may see such actions somewhat differently. This is the idea behind subjective morality, versus objective morality, which would require that there be some ontic refferant by which to assert that morality is even a thing worth considering. Otherwise, what we're left with is the idea that people should just do whatever they want to do and no single person has the right to judge them or even try to stop them, because morality is itself just a matter of interpretation.INterestingly enough, we know too that morality seems to very from culture to culture. I've heard horror tales of young boys in villages in various portions of Africa who take 7 or 8 year old girls into the bushes and force them into sex. It is rape. and this is considered normal behavior. That would obviously not be tolerated in the US or other developed places, but if such stories are to be believed, as I said it is considered entirely normal.Have you ever read Lord of the Flies? It's author specifically stated that if he had allowed the book to contain any girls the implications would have been more than he cared to share with his audience. Obviously that statement will make no sense to you if you haven't read the book, but the idea is that by default you need not teach a child to do bad things; all children already do them. We feel the need to teach morality as best we can because we know we must in order for all of us to reach some semblance of civility.So in that sense, it's obvious that, for most of us, particularly those of us who have matured enough, and I"m not just talking reaching adulthood, we know that morality is a must in order to express the idea of human equallity and value and such. My question is, however, why? If life truly is meaningful, why is it so? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/494015/#p494015 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Nocturnis, I'm not even sure I fully understand your question. I don't see a need to invoke transcendent morality in order to assert that everyone should be treated equally. Why does that have to be attributed to a source beyond humanity? Am I misunderstanding you? It seems likely that I am.Also, regarding the homeless thing, I've actually had some pretty bad experiences with homeless people, and have heard stories from others who've had a rough go as well. Rather than let those experiences sour me or turn me jaded, I decided that there had to be more to life than the tiny slice of exposure I had. And I was right. There's way more to it than that. For every homeless person who claims to want money for food and then gets angry when food is provided, there are dozens who would genuinely appreciate a meal. I was coming out of a restaurant once, with my now ex-partner and several of her family members. This was years ago, mind you, and not in my home city. A man who apparently wasn't wearing any shoes came up to us and asked us if we could spare any food. Four of us had takeout containers with half-eaten meals inside, and I don't know if all of us gave up our food, but I sure did. The guy just about cried. It really drove home to me that I can be coming out of a good eating establishment with food to spare, while someone is outside and doesn't have the means to feed himself. At that point, sacrificing the food I had is an absolute no-brainer. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493999/#p493999 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I'm going to ask a somewhat controversial question and feel the need to. I do not want to turn this into an argument but am genuinely curious and altogether interested in the answers I receive. But before I do, I believe I must point out to @crescent, if only your sentiments would reach politicians more often. I for one think you're probably right, because if I'm understanding things correctly from all I've read in history, this nation was founded by people who came from all walks of life but who respected those matters. Franklin was no Christian and did not make any bones about it, but respected the ideals held by those who were. On the other side, Washington believed in a creator, going so far as to write to the other known members of the body that developed the declaration of independence, "I believe that God is on our side, so long as we are on his." These were teams who's opposing views did not get in the way of doing what was best for the people who required their assistance. Dickonson and Adams both opposed one another; Adams believed the time was right for the American colonies to declare independence and break away from the status-quo. Dickonson could not for the life of him see how such a move would work against the greatest empire known to man at that time, but could not with a good conscience vote against his fellow Americans either. Actually, I feel the need to add that it is my opinion that he was so much a pacifist he just didn't believe the need for independence from the crown should be sought by violence, but I suppose that's something we'll never know for sure. Whatever the case, he could not vote for or against the declaration.And now, for the question, and I sincerely hope noone who comes forth is offended by it, takes a kneejerk approach to it or assumes that all I'm out to do is pull teeth or sour the conversation in anyway, and so thus it is...@Jayde, I address this mostly to you because you are kind of somewhat leading the charge here and I can concur with many of your sentiments. You say we are all equal, that our lives are of equall value and worth the same even if we ourselves do not have similar lives, situations, circumstances and the like. My question is simple and you have probably already guessed it based on the preface: how do you justify your stance without transcendent morality? If morality is subjective and relative to those who practice is, what on earth can we refer to? What sets the standard and why? Why is the life of a human say, worth more than the life of a dog or cat or pig or other livestock?And in furthering the question just a bit if I may, because deathstar kind of sparked it a bit, do those who contribute more to society suddenly become worth more owing to their contributions than those who do not? If so, how is such a thing calculated? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493995/#p493995 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I'm going to ask a somewhat controversial question and feel the need to. I do not want to turn this into an arguemnt but am genuinely curious and altogether interested in the answers I receive. But before I do, I believe I must point out to @crescent, if only your sentiments would reach politicians more often. I for one think you're probably right, because if I'm understanding things correctly from all I've read in history, this nation was founded by people who came from all walks of life but who respected those matters. Franklin was no Christian and did not make any bones about it, but respected the ideals held by those who were. On the other side, Washington believed in a creator, going so far as to write to the other known members of the body that developed the declaration of independence, "I believe that God is on our side, so long as we are on his." These were teams who's opposing views did not get in the way of doing what was best for the people who required their assistance. Dickonson and Adams both opposed one another; Adams believed the time was right for the American colonies to declare independence and break away from the status-quo. Dickonson could not for the life of him see how such a move would work against the greatest empire known to man at that time, but could not with a good conscience vote against his fellow Americans either.And now, for the question, and I sincerely hope noone who comes forth is offended by it, takes a kneejerk approach to it or assumes that all I'm out to do is pull teeth or sour the conversation in anyway, and so thus it is...@Jayde, I address this mostly to you because you are kind of somewhat leading the charge here and I can concur with many of your sentiments. YOu say we are all equal, that our lives are of equall value and worth the same even if we ourselves do not have similar lives, situations, circumstances and the like. My question is simple and you have probably already guessed it based on the preface: how do you justify your stance without transcendent morality? If morality is subjective and relative to those who practice is, what on earth can we refer to? What sets the standard and why? Why is the life of a human say, worth more than the life of a dog or cat or pig or other livestock?And in furthering the question just a bit if I may, because deathstar kind of sparked it a bit, do those who contribute more to society suddenly become worth more owing to their contributions than those who do not? If so, how is such a thing calculated? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493995/#p493995 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @Jayde, thank you for sharing. I found it very interesting to read. I don't agree with parts of what you're saying, but I do agree that we are all equal as in that we are all human beings. I think its our lives and circumstances that is what is making us unequal, and possibly something that we'll always have to deal with. Even if we all see each other as humans, we are still human, and I think that we just have a natural bias to find differences and use them to make us unequal. I think that something that gets ignored a lot is our natural tendencies to make things the way we want them. For example, excuse the thread borrowing, but I feel that an example is right here. Deathstar seems to have had bad experiences with homeless people, while Jayde has had good ones, making them both think they are right about their point of view. Tooo often we just see things that make us right, and see everything else as harmful, bad, or something like that. Not to say that's happening, but I'm thinking as I type. I think that in general, we need to first be able to have open discussions about things we find important, controversial, or even scary, before we can come together as just human beings. I apologize if this is just rambly and doesn't make sense, but I find that if I don't just let my thoughts out as they are, I end up with something I don't actually mean to say. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493991/#p493991 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Jayde wrote:Nuno, I hate to burst your bubble, but while China is not doing quite the same things as America and the EU, it's got plenty of black marks on its record that I can't personally support. Just as a few examples:1. The control the Chinese government has over its citizens, to the extent that you have to sometimes be really careful about what you say and where you say it (just look at all the platforms that are blocked or hard to access in China for proof)2. The conflict with Hong Kong; I need say no more3. Exploitation of cheap labour - don't kid yourself, China buys pretty readily into capitalism when it suits. It's basically a communist rule with market capitalism as its driver.The truth is that very few countries have clean hands in this. I'm not trying to single out yours, but please don't operate under the delusion that China's doing most things right. It's not. Nor is just about anyone else.Also, don't forget about china's forced detention of hundreds of thousands of Uighur Muslims and other minorities in "re-education" camps where occupants are allegedly brainwashed with communist propaganda and tortured , among other things. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493988/#p493988 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I live in North Dakota. Winter here is 9 months out of 12. And winters -- especially this one -- is downright terrible. We get temperatures so low that homeless people usually die not due to physical attacks or other injury but due to natural causes (aka the weather). You want an example ofsaid temperature? Well, this hole week we had temperatures ranging from 0 degrees F. to -20 degrees F. We've had winters where its fallen to as low as -60-65. In this kind of state -- or in any area where it gets lethally cold -- I feel extremely bad for those who are homeless and who are forbidden from entering "warm" areas. Homeless people in much warmer areas have the benefit of being warm while outside, at least; they have no such luxury up here.My views are similar to Jayde. I believe in "naturally-given" rights too, i.e. what the constitution of the US has. Where I stand in the "factional" divide varies though, or so I think. It really depends on the situation that I'm put in and the questions being asked.As for my standing on religion (Christianity in particular), I am definitely an atheist. I am unwilling to put all my trust in something as fickle as faith. Furthermore, I firmly doubt that any kind of God that truly does "love" us woould allow us to (say) build weapons that could eliminate all life on Earth or let us needlessly kill each other for nonsensical reasons. Marriage/relationships is also something I disagree with. I could care less who you have a relationship with, nor how its structured or what kind it is (unless its downright hostile/abusive in nature). If your gay, I could care less. Same for anything else. I've always found something wrong about the "opposite sexes only" BS. And don't even get me started on the societal need to constantly bitch and complain about someone doing something "unconventional" in their relationship, i.e. falling in love with someone who's 10-15 years older then they are. If its in the opposite direction and the partner is a minor, I definitely have an issue with that, but as soon as they're an adult I couldcare less (after all, their life is then entirely there own). After all, if everyone in the relationship is happy with the way it works, I have no right to complain or otherwise interfere. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493974/#p493974 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I live in North Dakota. Winter here is 9 months out of 12. And winters -- especially this one -- is downright terrible. We get temperatures so low that homeless people usually die not due to physical attacks or other injury but due to natural causes (aka the weather). You want an example ofsaid temperature? Well, this hole week we had temperatures ranging from 0 degrees F. to -20 degrees F. We've had winters where its fallen to as low as -60-65. In this kind of state -- or in any area where it gets lethally cold -- I feel extremely bad for those who are homeless and who are forbidden from entering "warm" areas. Homeless people in much warmer areas have the benefit of being warm while outside, at least; they have no such luxury up here.My views are similar to Jayde. I believe in "naturally-given" rights too, i.e. what the constitution of the US has. Where I stand in the "factional" divide varies though, or so I think. It really depends on the situation that I'm put in and the questions being asked.As for my standing on religion (Christianity in particular), I am definitely an atheist. I am unwilling to put all my trust in something as fickle as faith. Furthermore, I firmly doubt that any kind of God that truly does "love" us woould allow us to (say) build weapons that could eliminate all life on Earth or let us needlessly kill each other for nonsensical reasons. Marriage/relationships is also something I disagree with. I could care less who you have a relationship with, nor how its structured or what kind it is (unless its downright hostile/abusive in nature). If your gay, I could care less. Same for anything else. I've always found something wrong about the "opposite sexes only" BS. And don't even get me started on the societal need to constantly bitch and complain about someone doing something "unconventional" in their relationship, i.e. falling in love with someone who's 10-15 years older then they are. If its in the opposite direction and the partner is a minor, I definitely have an issue with that, but as soon as they're an adult I couldcare less (after all, their life is then entirely there own). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493974/#p493974 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I live in North Dakota. Winter here is 9 months out of 12. And winters -- especially this one -- is downright terrible. We get temperatures so low that homeless people usually die not due to physical attacks or other injury but due to natural causes (aka the weather). You want an example ofsaid temperature? Well, this hole week we had temperatures ranging from 0 degrees F. to -20 degrees F. We've had winters where its fallen to as low as -60-65. In this kind of state -- or in any area where it gets lethally cold -- I feel extremely bad for those who are homeless and who are forbidden from entering "warm" areas. Homeless people in much warmer areas have the benefit of being warm while outside, at least; they have no such luxury up here.My views are similar to Jayde. I believe in "naturally-given" rights too, i.e. what the constitution of the US has. Where I stand in the "factional" divide varies though, or so I think. It really depends on the situation that I'm put in and the questions being asked.As for my standing on religion (Christianity in particular), I am definitely an atheist. I am unwilling to put all my trust in something as fickle as faith. Furthermore, I firmly doubt that any kind of God that truly does "love" us woould allow us to (say) build weapons that could eliminate all life on Earth or let us needlessly kill each other for nonsensical reasons. Marriage/relationships is also something I disagree with. I could care less who you have a relationship with, nor how its structured or what kind it is (unless its downright hostile/abusive in nature). If your gay, I could care less. Same for anything else. I've always found something wrong about the "opposite sexes only" BS. And don't even get me started on the societal need to constantly bitch and complain about someone doing something "unconventional" in their relationship, i.e. falling in love with someone who's 10-15 years older then they are. If its in the opposite direction and the partner is a minor, I definitely have an issue with that, but as soon as they're an adult I couldcare less (after all, their life is then entirely there own). I hope that doesn't sound overly hypocritical. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493974/#p493974 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I live in North Dakota. Winter here is 9 months out of 12. And winters -- especially this one -- is downright terrible. We get temperatures so low that homeless people usually die not due to physical attacks or other injury but due to natural causes (aka the weather). You want an example ofsaid temperature? Well, this hole week we had temperatures ranging from 0 degrees F. to -20 degrees F. We've had winters where its fallen to as low as -60-65. In this kind of state -- or in any area where it gets lethally cold -- I feel extremely bad for those who are homeless and who are forbidden from entering "warm" areas. Homeless people in much warmer areas have the benefit of being warm while outside, at least; they have no such luxury up here.My views are similar to Jayde. I believe in "naturally-given" rights too, i.e. what the constitution of the US has. Where I stand in the "factional" divide varies though, or so I think. It really depends on the situation that I'm put in and the questions being asked. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493974/#p493974 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Deathstar, your homeless example is a good one. I've seen it happen. I have heard of it, too. I daresay it's not the statistical norm, but it happens enough that yes, it's a problem.People like that give the honest ones a bad name. Just as you shouldn't judge the left by its shrillest members, and I shouldn't judge the right by its most militant zealots, you shouldn't judge all or most homeless people by the few who will ask for food, then get upset when it's given to them.Here are a few things to consider, however:1. Many homeless people literally don't know about shelters, and in some situations, shelters are either not available or completely full2. If you don't have a fixed address, it's really hard to get any sort of social security or other help from the government; no money means it's really difficult to change your circumstances under capitalism3. If you don't have a phone, it's really hard to get a callback for a job interview4. If you have trouble finding places to wash or finding clean clothes, it's really, really difficult to make a good impression at said job interview, even if you get it, since you'll probably smell pretty strongly and may look ragged no matter how well you groom5. People who accept food are sometimes beaten up or even killed for it, sometimes while eating, by other homeless individuals6. Many homeless individuals aren't there by choice; instead, they have been released from mental institutions, have essentially fallen through the cracks, and due to lack of funds and a resultant inability to afford meds are suffering any of half a dozen mental illnesses7. In shelters, fights are extremely common; people are badly wounded and sometimes even killed, due to a plethora of factors8. Most substance use issues are related to pain; whether that pain is physical (veterans, chronic illness) or mental (trauma, personal loss, etc), a lot of individuals end up with addictions in order to cope with pain they don't otherwise know how to deal with9. Some substance use issues are so strong that quitting without help is virtually impossible; a coke or heroin habit, cut off cold turkey, can kill you if you're weak or unlucky10. Some homeless people commit petty crimes because at least they get to find a place to sleep (jail) that's warm, and out of the rain, the cold or the snow11. Homeless people are often forbidden from taking up residence ("squatting") in abandoned buildings and empty storefronts; the space is often not being used, but it's still against the law for them to go there, and they'll often be driven out12. Homeless people will sometimes try to enter large places like airports, train stations and bus stations for warmth, but again, they're often driven out because they may be unsightly or, in some cases, may pose legitimate risk to travellers13. In Canada, and I believe in the United States as well, there are more empty houses than homeless people; take that in for a secondAll this is to say that once you're homeless, it can be very, very difficult to find your feet again without help.Yes, there are absolutely people out there who just want to drink their pain away. There are even con artists out there who'll happily take your money and then go home to their warm house at night. These people are not the norm. If you've been burned before, or know someone who has, I'm sorry. That's never easy. But don't let it harden your heart. These are people, too. Most of the time, if a person on the street, clearly living out of doors, is asking for money, they need it. They have struggles that you and I simply can't fathom. Don't judge them as lazy, unfit, unmotivated. They may be, but the better likelihood is that a combination of factors has made things really, really difficult for them.
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493958/#p493958
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Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Okay, this is a bit different in America then. For example in Hungary, education is free except paying for your books. The country supports you if you study at university as well, although if you don't have enough points to get accepted, you can pay for it, that's true. But it's not the general method. 98 percent of the students are accepted and supported. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493953/#p493953 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By the DPRK most certainly isn't right either; considering that most of the food, luxuries etc go to those in and closest the capital, and oh of course the leader himself. You also have the fact that nobody's allowed out, most thinking is censored to hell, oh and concentration camps. Electricity and running water are commodities awarded to the privileged -- well, they work in hospitals and such as well, but not all the time. However, you best believe the great leader and his descendant mongrels are Gods.As to the discussion at hand, the many hypocrisies I witnessed and learned about are why I departed from religion after just 2 years a part of it, and why I'll never go back. While I cannot rule out that a God or higher power may be out there, I know it is not one that creates humans certain ways and rejects them. I'll give just some examples that come off the top of my head, though note it's not the complete extent: premarital sex even though people are built to have the urge to procreate quite often beyond the age of 10, homosexuality even though there are literally scientific proofs showing differences in the hypothalamus of humans (... and animals! too!) who are attracted to the same sex, and you could even argue that greed and the need to put oneself first come from the survival instinct and the need to live one's best life. My church quickly lost touch with the two girls (one I met, one I didn't get the chance to) who were lesbian -- despite the fact that one of the girls was a great person to be around and, from what I could tell, a good Christian.In terms of capitalism vs socialism, I do agree that the current system just doesn't work for an ideal society. I saw someone on Facebook recently lamenting that they have no choice but to work through the cancer treatments because they "can't afford cancer". I also know of someone who got put on a very, quite exorbitantly expensive pill for a lifelong condition they have -- and they can manage, yes, but what about others with the condition that won't get that pill because of how much it costs?People often say that if you want more money, go where the money is -- start your own business or something, become a pro sportsman, or an engineer, something like that. However that doesn't solve the problem, because often times we pay for what we value at the time -- which is to say, football players get a lot more money than, say, sanitary workers even though the ladder is far, far, far more important to society.I'm at an impasse though, because even though I see the evident flaws in capitalism, I also realize that democratic socialism in its purest form is idealistic. Unfortunately it goes beyond human nature all the way to the animal in us.In terms of the gender pay gap though, that apparently has more to do with the jobs that men and women take being, on average, different from one another, rather than men and women being paid differently for doing the same work. It's kind of like how you could definitely argue that disabled individuals make, on average, less than their able bodied counterparts, but many disabled individuals are assumed to and or placed in menial jobs that don't pay much. Why? Because we obviously can't do what they can. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493949/#p493949 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Okay, Deathstar. I'll bite.Leftists don't just want to talk about climate change. We are absolutely trying to do things about it. We're trying to get rid of big oil, or at least blunt its power. We're trying to change the way health care works as well, BTW, because in America, especially, it's brutal. We're committing billions of dollars toward research for better renewable energy sources. Just as one example, did you know that in Kenya, there's a small village which now gets all of its drinking water from the sea via a desalinization plant? If we can find a way to get this up and running on a more worldwide scale, it's goodbye upcoming water crisis. Not all greens (environmentalists) are hard leftists, but many are, and the reverse is also true. We're trying, also, to cut down emissions by changing our emphasis on meat-based diets. It's either that, or find a way to grow cloned meat without the need to feed grain to animals that produce methane. So yeah...we're not just talking about it. We're trying very hard to do things about it, to work within the currently broken systems to find ways to optimize the hand we've got in order to positively impact the world, and all the people in it.No single person can change the world. You know that. I know that. The world knows that. Unless Greta invents something absolutely revolutionary that does, in fact, change the world, she's only a figurehead. We're not so foolish as to think that she, and she alone, is going to change the world. Personally, I see her as a nice symbol, however. She's young, she's brave as hell, and she represents what we've got to do if we want to save this planet.Any side, right, left or center, has disagreements. That's a wasted argument, I'm afraid. You can't criticize the left for being divided when every single political platform is divided. Put four politicians in a room, and you know what will happen? You'll get two factions, one turncoat, five arguments and nothing done. That's adapted from a saying I heard once. The point is, politicians and leaders disagree all the time. If you want to criticize the left, stick to something that is the responsibility of that platform alone. This isn't.Now, as to what we'd do differently? That's tough, but here are a few overarching things most of us want:1. Free or vastly cheaper health care2. proportional tax (if you make millions, you don't need all those millions to live, so your proportional tax should be higher)3. free or vastly cheaper education4. better/fairer working conditions and working hours, including protection against discrimination based on age, race or sexual orientation5. better resource management (we need to stop just using what's worked and start investing in stuff that will work better)6. the dismantling of systemic racism, classism, ableism, etc7. clear separation of church and state, such that religion should not be an integral part of the life of any citizen should they wish to abstain8. less ownership (seriously, think about it; how often do you use a power drill? Wouldn't it make more sense to have tool libraries and things, where you can rent stuff for periods during which you'd need it?)9. Eventually less reliance upon money (it will probably always be around, but our slavish devotion to it is sick)Now, if you want me to break down exactly how we do that? Get in line. Economists with far more acumen than I are working on that. If we knew how to do it, we'd do it. We're working on it. Again, though, saying that we aren't entirely sure how to do something doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't do it, either. We aren't talking about impossible things here. There are a ton of moving parts in this sort of analysis; frankly, I wouldn't have understood it all twenty years or so ago. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493950/#p493950 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By A reflection to your last few sentences. Here, if you try to help a homeless, it'll go like this: you see someone standing and asking constantly for money, and he says he needs it for food. You feel sorry for him, so you tell him hey, come with me, here's a bakery, I'll buy something for you. And what does the homeless do, he immediately shouts at you like how dare you taking him to the bakery, he doesn't need food but money. And then you realise that he needs that money to buy drugs or alcohol, so better if you don't help him out at all, because you'll just make it worse. It's difficult to realise when to help the poor, sadly, because they'll want more and more. If they tried hardly, they would reach something. They could go to places where they give a home like something to homeless people. It's not perfect, but a good way to start from scratch. After they sign in there, they could go and study something so they may be able to get a job. And if they work, they get money. Maybe they must wait for years, but then they can buy a cheaper house. Everyone has the opportunity to start to live their life, and everyone has the right for it. People may think their life is messed up, but it could always be worse. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493951/#p493951 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By the DPRK most certainly isn't right either; considering that most of the food, luxuries etc go to those in and closest the capital, and oh of course the leader himself. You also have the fact that nobody's allowed out, most thinking is censored to hell, oh and concentration camps. Electricity and running water are commodities awarded to the privileged -- well, they work in hospitals and such as well, but not all the time. However, you best believe the great leader and his descendant mongrels are Gods.As to the discussion at hand, the many hypocrisies I witnessed and learned about are why I departed from religion after just 2 years a part of it, and why I'll never go back. While I cannot rule out that a God or higher power may be out there, I know it is not one that creates humans certain ways and rejects them. I'll give just some examples that come off the top of my head, though note it's not the complete extent: premarital sex even though people are built to have the urge to procreate quite often beyond the age of 10, homosexuality even though there are literally scientific proofs showing differences in the hypothalamus of humans (... and animals! too!) who are attracted to the same sex, and you could even argue that greed and the need to put oneself first come from the survival instinct and the need to live one's best life. My church quickly lost touch with the two girls (one I met, one I didn't get the chance to) who were lesbian -- despite the fact that one of the girls was a great person to be around and, from what I could tell, a good Christian.In terms of capitalism vs socialism, I do agree that the current system just doesn't work for an ideal society. I saw someone on Facebook recently lamenting that they have no choice but to work through the cancer treatments because they "can't afford cancer". I also know of someone who got put on a very, quite exorbitantly expensive pill for a lifelong condition they have -- and they can manage, yes, but what about others with the condition that won't get that pill because of how much it costs?People often say that if you want more money, go where the money is -- start your own business or something, become a pro sportsman, or an engineer, something like that. However that doesn't solve the problem, because often times we pay for what we value at the time -- which is to say, football players get a lot more money than, say, sanitary workers even though the ladder is far, far, far more important to society.I'm at an impasse though, because even though I see the evident flaws in capitalism, I also realize that democratic socialism in its purest form is idealistic. Unfortunately it goes beyond human nature all the way to the animal in us. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493949/#p493949 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Nocturnis, you hit the nail on the head. Thanks, dude.I'm not actually trying to say that everyone has equal circumstances at all times. That is patently false, and it's impossible for every single thing to measure out as equal. That sort of thinking may exist in a vacuum, but not in reality. What I'm trying to say is that whether you're black, brown, white or yellow, whether you are rich, poor or somewhere in the middle, whether you're blind, deaf, able-bodied, paraplegic, a man, a woman, something in between, gay, straight, bi, a schoolteacher, a quarry worker or whatever else you may be, you're a human being. You deserve innate respect for being a human being. No one should take something that's related to you and weaponize it. You shouldn't be stopped on the street just because you're black. You shouldn't make 85% of normal wages because you're a woman. You shouldn't be typecast because your father, your uncle and two of your three brothers went to jail. You shouldn't be assumed lazy or a personal failure if you're living on the street. You shouldn't be thought a waste of space and resources if you have a substance use problem. You shouldn't be deemed a monster if you're missing a leg from a war wound. You shouldn't be branded as crazy and untrustworthy because loud noises sometimes make you scream.I could go on and on, but there's no point. The thing I'm trying to get at here is that we're all people. We all have differing experiences and perspectives. But at the end of the day, it is those experiences and the way we learn from them which make us individuals. Any unearned prejudice is just barbaric. Any unearned enmity, hatred or suspicion is just close-minded.Here's the tl.dr version:If you're walking down the street one day and you see a homeless man, and your first reflexive thought is "Come on, dude, don't sit on the sidewalk, you're in my way", maybe try asking yourself, "I wonder why he's sitting there.", and then go on with "Is there anything I can do to help?". You're not obligated to help, of course; you can just go on your way if that's your wish. But maybe it'd be good to see these people who are different from you as people, instead of as things that get in the way, or as problems in the s ystem, or as statistics. We're all people. I wish more humans recognized this all the way down to their bones. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493945/#p493945 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Ok. A few things to say here. These are some of the things I try to live by.1. Don't judge people.As a Christian, we are tought that we have no right to judge people for the things they do wrong. I believe that since I'm just as much of a person as they are, and I'm not perfect by any means, I have no room to criticize them.Am I going to disagree with some of the life choices certain people make? It depends on the situation. If it's a decision that could impact many people, then yes. But other than that, why should I care what they do with their lives? It's not hurting me in any way. Is it?2. Admit when you are wrong.I have always been tought that if I do something wrong, just own up to it. I understand that I am nobody perfect. It is in our nature. We will never do everything right no matter how hard we try.3. Help others whenever possible.Those who know me know that I enjoy helping people whenever the opportunity presents itself. I don't do it because I want recognition for it, because I don't. I just do it because it's the right thing to do, and I would hope someone else would do the same for me if I ended up in the same situation or a different situation that they understood.Anyways, that's it for now URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493944/#p493944 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Of course I listen first. I'm just curious. None of the political sides are perfect, that's a well known fact. I'm politically independent. But sometimes I just can't understand, why do leftists want to ruin their life, their country, with believing in things that don't work at all? For example, how do you want to stop the changing of the climate only by talking about it? Why do you leftists think that a 16 years old Greta Thunberg can change the word by looking angrily at presidents and leaders? Why do you think it's perfectly okay to use a mentally ill person politically? And a final question: if leftists ruled the world, why would it be better? What would the side do differently? And if the side wants to rule, why can't they keep together? Why are there disagreements even between leftist politicians? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493939/#p493939 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Besides, I don't think Jayde meant that we're all equall in global status, but rather, that as life goes and if you value it at all, that we're equall in that respect. I could be wrong and I don't doubt he'll correct me if I misunderstood that point. I don't, however, for much I have disagreed with him in the past and tried to do so respectfully, believe that he would go so far as to ignore the points made in post 7 and say that on a global economic and social level we're all currently equal. IN fact, when he says that, and I quote, This doesn't mean I think the problems faced by groups are equal. They aren't. The people are equal by default..." I think he has a great understanding of at least a fair amount of the problems plaguing humanity. He understands there's poverty. He understands there's unaaceptible persecution and aggression. He understands that there are people at the top who would exploit the weaker for their personal gains and think nothing of it, or to put it more bluntly, that there are those who would skin a flea if they thought they could make a living doing it.For the time being I'm going to kinda sort a somewhat stick around and see where this one goes, but you guys need to cut Jayde some slack as all he's doing is, A, answering questions concerning what he believes, B, voicing his opinions which he has the right to as everyone else does and, C, possibly, perhaps even probably, wanting to open-mindedly bounce ideas off and around with the rest of the community in an attempt to do what's right. Will he have all the answers? NO, but that's ok, because? None of us do, either. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493938/#p493938 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Deathstar, before I actually address anything you said, I have a question.Are you willing to listen, or do you just want to hear yourself talk.I hope this question doesn't offend, but I think there's good reason to ask it. Sometimes, people are so convinced that they're right that they simply want to say whatever they wish. if you're one of those people, I won't even bother engaging you. But if you actually want to have a discussion about this, then I'm game if you are. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493932/#p493932 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By People are equal?Solution 1. So from now on, I won't work, but I want money, a lot lot lot lot of damn money, okay? Will anyone give me please? I will be a lazy ass who lives only because people help me out... Just cause I'm just the same as you all!Solution 2. Oh god, looka me, I'm a damn rich person, but I pay the same amount of tax as a poor myserable one does. Is it normal? Hahh of course, because I have a lot of money due to cheating in life whenever I have the opportunity, ah looka me, what a nice man I am!So equality is broken at this point. We are not equal. There are poor ones, rich ones, white ones, black ones, we are all different. But the problem is the following: gypsies usually complain about equality, but they even don't want to be a normal part of the given country's community. They talk about equality when they think these white people are sooo evil, but when it's about their rights, they say they aren't equal because they have more rights. So how is this, really? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493931/#p493931 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Nuno, I hate to burst your bubble, but while China is not doing quite the same things as America and the EU, it's got plenty of black marks on its record that I can't personally support. Just as a few examples:1. The control the Chinese government has over its citizens, to the extent that you have to sometimes be really careful about what you say and where you say it (just look at all the platforms that are blocked or hard to access in China for proof)2. The conflict with Hong Kong; I need say no more3. Exploitation of cheap labour - don't kid yourself, China buys pretty readily into capitalism when it suits. It's basically a communist rule with market capitalism as its driver.The truth is that very few countries have clean hands in this. I'm not trying to single out yours, but please don't operate under the delusion that China's doing most things right. It's not. Nor is just about anyone else. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493928/#p493928 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By @Jayde, I do agree with some of your points, however some things are just unacceptable IMHO. I am not going to tell you which ones, because someone might feel offewnded and I did enough bad recently so I am gonna stop here. But what I need to tell you is that I fully, completely, iminously agree on your stance about capitalism. What USA ,Canada or the EU does is unacceptable. I am more close towards what was done in the SOviet Union, China or even DPRK. Although I don't agree with what does Kim do with people, I do agree with the way the country is if it comes to culture and the general system. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493924/#p493924 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By I would just like to point out that i'm not talking about communism or pure Marxist-style government here. I also want to point out that what happened in Russia is not necessarily inevitable, so to conclude that a system is busted purely because one trial failed is logically bankrupt.I'm talking about democratic socialism, so this is where you may want to do some of your own research. Before you naysay, criticize or otherwise spout facts that maybe aren't in keeping with what we're talking about here, it's a good idea to know exactly what you're talking about instead of just going "communism = socialism = Russia failed = uh I dunno bro, I think that's bad".If you want manifold examples of how capitalism is harmful, seriously just look up "capitalism is destroying the world". It sounds juvenile to put it that way, I'll grant you, but that'll give you tons of links - some more reputable than others - which discuss how capitalism is failing. I can go more in depth if you want, but I don't really think I need to. I trust that a little digging and a bit of thought will speak for themselves.On the flip side of things, if you look up democratic socialism, you're going to see a whole mess of opinions. Most of the people opposed to it are on the right, although by no means do all detractors come from that side of the fence. People seem to think that bureaucracy will begin to control the average citizen, and there will be centralized control, it's true, but as for how much actual impact it'll have? We really can't know yet.What we do know is that this whole capitalism thing is tanking, and we are probably going to want to get away from a system which makes workers into glorified slaves. The more control your average citizen has over the goods they acquire, the less they will have to rely on punishing work weeks. The more technology takes away jobs via automation, the more people will exist who can put their many talents elsewhere.It's not going to happen tomorrow, or even overnight. It'll probably not even happen fully in any of our lifetimes. But I think a swing at least in the direction of a democratic socialist system is in the cards if humanity wants to survive. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493922/#p493922 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By `Agreed with post 2. While capitalism is widely accepted as the dominant way of life in most countries, I'm not blind to the fact that things can't go on like they have been so far. Capitalist systems are going to see huge problems in the coming decades. At the same time though, communism's problems have already been seen, and I'm not going to start listing off examples of failed comunist states or the authoritarian regimes that have sprung up from these countries. I'm pretty sure we can all list them off perfectly by now. but I am also curious as to the nature of this "research" that has been done that reinforces the argument that a socialist system is viable without creating its own forms of inequality or a police state. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493918/#p493918 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By Agreed with post 2. While capitalism is widely accepted as the dominant way of life in most countries, I'm not blind to the fact that things can't go on like they have been so far. Capitalist systems are going to see huge problems in the coming decades. At the same time though, communism's problems have already been seen, and I'm not going to start listing off examples of failed comunist states or the authoritarian regimes that have sprung up from these countries, but I am also curious as to the nature of this "research" that has been done that reinforces the argument that a socialist system is viable without creating its own forms of inequality or a police state. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493918/#p493918 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By
Re: Personal Reflections and Rules to Live By You may already have posted this elsewhere in the past, but could you perhaps link to this research you did with regards to capitalism destroying the world? It might make your case a lot more ironclad, as opposed to just claiming you did the research, since I'm sure it is out there.I don't quite disagree with that sentiment, but I'm currently not convinced the alternative is any better. On paper, it might be, however I'm sure capitalism might look better on paper too. It appears to be human nature to exploit loopholes and the like, so I would be hesitant to say the least to completely redesign entire systems only to discover that they really aren't working out very well in practice. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493912/#p493912 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
