Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux @24, aha! I understand now! And that does sound very nice. I thought app images were some kind of format that required external tooling to run (like snaps do, at least to initially install properly). I wasn't picking nerd fights either, BTW. But I understand now and I really like that idea -- universal executables for all distributions. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486874/#p486874 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux @23 Sorry, not trying to pick nerd fights, but my point is that it *has* to support AppImages without extra tooling because an AppImage is just an executable. Now, you can *get* extra tooling to support things like automatic updates, but your AppImage will work fine without that. And if you want to go AppImages all the way down, you can bundle the updater AppImage in your main AppImage and just run it like an executable. I don't claim that it's the best packaging format out there, but if you're a busy developer and want to make a good-faith effort to release something under Linux, but don't want to learn some esoteric format that won't work on certain distros or has bunches of gotchas, I truly think AppImage is the way to go. The only distro that may not support AppImage is Alpine, or anything else based on MUSL, because something that fundamental likely requires either full static builds or an AppImage built with MUSL as its base. But anyone running Alpine should be prepared for that anyway IMO.Here's an example. https://github.com/linuxdeploy/linuxdeploy/releases is the linuxdeploy tool packaged as an AppImage. I wish it wasn't perpetually a pre-release, but in any case, you can literally download and run the .AppImage file directly from the releases page. No searching for a PPA/COPR/OSTree repo, just download and run. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486180/#p486180 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux @22. AppImage isn't universal on all distros... I have Arch installed on my main machine and I don't think it supports any other "packaging formats" without external tooling. The only one I know it supports of out of the box are Arch Linux packages and AUR PKGBUILDs. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486082/#p486082 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux AppImage is about as universal as .tar.gz but with a few more features. Further, I can't install snaps on Fedora without additional tooling, nor can I install .debs, nor can a Debian/Ubuntu user install RPMs.Ultimately, publishers should do what they want. But for the Windows/Mac developer who doesn't want to figure out how to build Debian packages and set up a package archive, build RPMs and set up something like COPR, or build Flatpaks and understand OSTree, AppImage is conceptually about as simple as a cross between a self-extracting archive and an installer. I can't speak to how easy snaps are, though again, those require installing tooling for non-Ubuntu distributions, possibly distributing through the Canonical store, etc. I'd be ashamed for Linux if it weren't for MSI, whatever Microsoft's new MSI replacement format is called, executable installers and the million ways to create those...packaging in general is a mess everywhere I suppose. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486081/#p486081 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux @20, the appimage/snaps/whatever is mainly personal preference. Neither is better than the other IMOI like package managers -- neatly integrated, always there (at least 99 percent of the time anyway) and the updates for the game come as a part of your regular system update process. Nothing is separate from anything else. But hey, up to you, the developer URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486072/#p486072 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux @20, the appimage/snaps/whatever is mainly personal preference. Neither is better than the other IMO URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486072/#p486072 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux For Linux packaging, I'd use AppImage. AppImages are basically executables that bundle the app's root into a single downloadable file. Download, chmod +x, run, and get both desktop integration and command line use. The package files are just executables, and while you can install supplemental utilities for automatic upgrades and such, you can also just treat them like normal binaries and not bother thinking of them as a package. In-place updates are also supported albeit a bit more difficult to implement. There's a tool called linuxdeploy that, when given a directory containing your app and whatever files it needs, copies its dependencies into a chroot and modifies the shared objects to reference each other from the root. Run that in a Docker container for something like ubuntu:18.04 and you can build a single package with good cross-distro support.I'm very slowly making progress on my Asteroids-like shooter, and have AppImages building automatically via GitLab CI. Support for automatic Itch.io publishing is also WIP. The resulting images build on Ubuntu LTS and run fine on my Fedora system, so I'd say they're reasonably cross-distro.I suppose an answer to why Linux audio games aren't here is that much of what I've written is complex and takes time to implement. It wasn't too painful for me--I have a couple decades of software development experience under my belt and have run Linux since Slackware 96, so setting up CI pipelines is something I just do and then don't think about. But for folks used to building games locally and slapping a zip archive somewhere, CI is probably a foreign concept. Me, I couldn't imagine developing games without it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486051/#p486051 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
2019-12-16
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux That's what I was afraid of. it is not impossible, though. Flite from CMU is pretty lightweight and the newer Clustergen voices are of reasonable quality. I'll think about it, for sure.Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/486033/#p486033 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux @17, the only way I can see for this is to embed speech synths directly in your application. I don't think Speech dispatcher allows you to do this. Perhaps it is time for a next-generation equivalent? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485978/#p485978 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
2019-12-16
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux The only thing I have not figured out yet is the speech synthesis part. I need to send the audio to a memory buffer, not just play it through the default method that the particular speech engine happens to provide. I have this working on Windows and I found some sources for how to do it on Mac and iOS, but nothing for Linux that seems to come bundled with the distribution as of yet. Any ideas?Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485950/#p485950 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux @15, aha. Understandable. Then my recommendation would be to start with Ubuntu and Ubuntu/Debian-based derivatives and provide .tgz files on your website so that other methods of installing the package (eg. snaps or AUR packages) can be created on your behalf by the community. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485925/#p485925 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
2019-12-16
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux @13 The project I am working on at the moment is not an open source library, it is something very different and will be closed source. My making an open source game in the future is not out of the question, but is not in the pipeline as of yet.Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485908/#p485908 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux @13, cool, thanks for the info. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485906/#p485906 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux @9, that could be a good starting point - focus on Ubuntuand Ubuntu/Debian-based derivatives. I'd be happy to (try) to make an AUR package for it (assuming, mind, that it's open source, though knowing your most recent projects, I doubt that'll be a problem).@10, yes, Libspeechd does support Python3. There is a small issue and that is messages below a particular priority (mainly "important", if I am not mistaken) will get muffled/silenced by Orca if it is running and happens to speak at the same time. TBH I doubt this is an issue since it would be rather stupid to force game messages to override Orca -- Orca is far more important than what a game has to say.@11, just set up a Linux VM. You can test it all you like then. I don't think your supposed to run .snap files directly, you need to install them with snap. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485901/#p485901 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux hey @pauliyobospeech dispatcher or more specifically espeak are supported on linux via Lucia. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485868/#p485868 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux have you guys heard of snapcraft? They probably have. a standarized update mechanism.Anyway, beatstar simply doesn't have Linux support because I have no one to test it. There was a guy who said was interesting in testing beatstar linux support, but he couldn't figure out how to run the package file I was sending him (a .snap file). If someone wants to try it, it would be nice. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485851/#p485851 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux My reason is that I don't have a linux system to test the games on, and still have to find a solution for speech in linux. Speechdispatcher may work but I am not sure if it supports python3. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485850/#p485850 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
2019-12-16
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux It looks like an interesting framework, though I have already spent a fair bit of time building up my own from scratch to suit my specific needs, so I think I will continue down that road for now. But I have no doubt this would be very useful for someone who wants to get started developing games in C++!As for statistics, I was asking mainly to get an idea of whether it would be worth spending the time required to deploy for Linux properly. It can be a non-trivial task given the number of distributions etc. But if I limit myself to those based on Debian, such as Ubuntu and friends, it might be viable.Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485845/#p485845 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux I don't think we do. Telemetry is a touchy thing (considering how many companies and projects turn it on by default and make it an "opt-out" feature instead of an "opt-in and opt-out" feature); getting that would require consent from all involved, and that would scue the results, though the numbers would probably be high enough that it wouldn't matter if someone disallowed data collection.@7, as another framework that I've found to be really good, check out bs::f. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485837/#p485837 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
2019-12-16
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux In my current framework, building for Linux is a no-brainer since I wrote it with cross platform support in mind from the start. Do we have any statistics on how many blind people use Linux as their primary OS?Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485834/#p485834 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
2019-12-16
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux In my current framework, building for Linux is a no-brainer since I built it with cross platform support in mind from the start. Do we have any statistics on how many blind people use Linux as their primary OS?Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485834/#p485834 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux There's actually quite a lot of new and current linux releases, it just kind of depends on where you look. Steam made a push for developers to build for linux with the now defunct SteamOS, and itch.io also has a large category of linux games, same with GOG. Each of those platforms, steam, GOG, itch.io, all have their own respective games management apps as well, though GOG Galaxy doesn't seem to work on linux, unlike the other two. Usually updates seem to be handled through the apps rather than for each game independantly. I know Unity and Unreal engines can build for linux as well, though larger companies seem to stick mostly with windows, like the Master Chief Collection, Blizzard, etc. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485791/#p485791 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux And you could, but integrating all package managers in the world will not be easy (especially considering that you'd need sudo permissions). You'd be better off exploiting the fact that you have a package manager and, if you don't find one, falling back to downloading the updates. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485786/#p485786 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux @Ethin I would love to have linux support in JustUpdate URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485777/#p485777 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux There are standardized ways on Linux too (eg the package managers). However, you can also just require that users do not install the game through the package manager and instead install it in their home directory, then use a service to distribute updates. Alternatively, they can install it through a package manager but just not allow JustUpdate to work (because the package manager will handle those). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485770/#p485770 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Games for Linux
Re: Games for Linux I can only speak from my own point of view.For my games, that's because the update procedure (ie how I would update my game on linux) are non-existing.Both on Windows and on Mac, you have standardized methods of installing updates (exe's on Windows and pkg's on MacOS).Sitenote: That is also why JustUpdate (my updater framework) doesn't support Linux. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/485768/#p485768 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
