Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Interestingly, Gears 5's menus seem to have some dynamic stuff. Horde mode has featured content next to the custom game button, that only gets turned on when the events are enabled, and those read, or at least the names. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499585/#p499585 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. What's more, with the games as a service approach, a lot of menus are dynamic. The microsoft speech api is, to put it bluntly, primitive for now. Is that a bad thing? No, it only came out not too long ago, and it does its job well. What I do see though is devs skipping that entirely and putting their own speech output in, so that they can have more control, not to mention cross-platform accessibility. Web tts would fix the dyamic menu issue, but it's not fast enough for mission-critical games with timed-action, at which point in-house tts would no doubt be used. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499498/#p499498 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Absolutely guted about MyTrueSound, I was reall looking forward to Music Maze.Now, in regards to mainstream devs, please keep in mind that some of our favourite games might not have become accessible, for the simple reason that the decision was out of ours, and the developer's, control.Case in opint, Killer Instinct. From what I understand, the HUD stuff got implemented nearer the end of the lifespan, just as Season 3 was coming out. The "let games read to me" thing got announced by Microsoft, but by that point, Killer Instinct season 3 was coming to an end.I have a feeling if they had just a little moe time or another season, we might have seen it. But it's also not that simple. Mainstream game menus do not work like audiogaming menus, even though it might seem like it. I think these days, some menus even change their behind the scenes code every few seconds to prevent cheating, or that's one reason I've heard, so the screen reading feature would have to keep track of that while not losing it's place. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499483/#p499483 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Oh yeah.Well and the drama-starters on mainstream forums may be worse, but there's disproportionately smaller amounts at a time just because of the shere number of posts and members alone. Unless something is geting seriously out of hand there are probably at least a few pages of good tdiscussion for every page of drama. For a small community, a large amount of drama obviously tips the scale big-time. And there was a time when all of it was front and center. if the first thing a dev saw was them getting bashed over and over, or games being forked, or open-season other-content-pirasy discussions, then of course they aren't going to think very much of us. We've already lost quite a few reputation points with My True Sound based on cracking alone, failing the Goldgun fallout which we all recovered from eventually. Detrimental things, even in small amounts, matter to indie devs who don't have billions of users to contend with. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499352/#p499352 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I see both sides of this. The thing is, asses are always gonna ass, no matter what community they're part of. It boils down to the same thing that always comes into play whenever these discussions come up. The drama only seems worse because it's a small community, but mainstream forums have a greater number of drama starters by default because of sheer numbers. And yet, I get it, the gut reaction of "ugh, what will devs think if they see all this crap going on in disproportionate amounts?" You stick around long enough, and take what some of the less mature members of this forum say to heart, you might just become disillusioned and believe all the stereotypes about blindies. It could always be worse, though. There are far worse introductions one could have to the blind community. Vorail was mentioned in passing somewhere in this thread, need I say more? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499280/#p499280 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @Zakc93: Food for thought. Just because Ian advises devs to steer clear of the forum, that doesn't mean he himself has plans to up and leave. He could be reading this thread. Michelle, if on the off chance the SEO buzzers go off at there being a mention of Galactic Colonies/Crafting Kingdom, could be reading this as well. And just because Ian's still on this forum from time to time doesn't mean he's having a grand ol' time while kicking other devs out of the party. People, drama-causers or otherwise, represent the community whether they agree or not. And if he has already been disenchanted by this community enough to steer devs away from it, I think the last thing he would want would be for someone to say he's part of the problem when he's the one that is providing what should be the wakeup call to get our collective asses in line. For some reason, it's taken some people a lot longer to catch on. It's the very reason why a lot of rules are being more strictly inforced, that and moderation reform of course. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499269/#p499269 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @Zakc93: Food for thought. Just because Ian advises devs to steer clear of the forum, that doesn't mean he himself has plans to up and leave. He could be reading this thread. Michelle, if on the off chance the SEO buzzers go off at there being a mention of Galactic Colonies/Crafting Kingdom, could be reading this as well. And just because Ian's still on this forum from time to time doesn't mean he's having a grand ol' time while kicking other devs out of hte party. People, dramacausers or otherwise, represent the community whether they agree or not. And if he has already been disenchanted by this community enough to steer devs away from it, I think the last thing he would want would be for someone to say he's part of the problem when he's the one that is providing what should be the wakeup call to get our collective asses in line. For some reason, it's taken some people a lot longer to catch on. It's the very reason why a lot of rules are being more strictly inforced, that and moderation reform of course. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499269/#p499269 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @Zakc93: To be a bit more clear, I linked to that topic for reference, but I was focusing specifically on Ian's post reminding people that the general negative attitude that prompted the topic in the first place is one of the reasons why he turns most developers away from the forum now. It's true that infighting can happen anywhere, but for that to be a developer's first impression of a never-heard-of-until-now community would not make them want to invest further into their games. The Code 7 topic was, to make a long story short, a variation of what happened with Galactic Colonies presented on the forum. Not so much a review but a disproportionate slamming of the developer by one person while pretty much everyone else reading the thread told him off.I don't think we are overlooking the positivity by any stretch, I mean goodness knows we have come a long way and despite a few reappearing regulars, most of us are pretty civil and united in the goal of keeping this a welcoming place. But as is with any social site, the bad actors always make the most noise, and that could be the first thing a new dev sees, and we absolutely do not want that.For all Ian's advising devs to steer clear of this forum, the devs don't have much to lose, as they have valuable feedback from influential figures in the accessibility advocates/consultants field, including Ian himself, Brandon Cole, SightlessCombat, ABleGamers, and many others, who, guess what, don't even need a forum to reach out to these developers. Pulling the Ian's part of the problem card is not a good idea, because true or not, it's a useless manoeuvre that goes against the sentiment that is making this forum a pottentially better place so that maybe more developers could be encouraged to come here.TLDR: The only ones that are part of the problem are those causing the drama in the first place, thus tarnishing this community's reputation. But even a hard stance can always change, and talking of positivity, the time it took to falsely label Ian as part of the problem could have been spent posting something that doesn't make this issue so black-and-white. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499267/#p499267 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @Zakc93: To be a bit more clear, I linked to that topic for reference, but I was focusing specifically on Ian's post reminding people that the general negative attitude that prompted the topic in the first place is one of the reasons why he turns most developers away from the forum now. It's true that infighting can happen anywhere, but for that to be a developer's first impression of a never-heard-of-until-now community would not make them want to invest further into their games. The Code 7 topic was, to make a long story short, a variation of what happened with Galactic Colonies presented on the forum. Not so much a review but a disproportionate slamming of the developer by one person while pretty much everyone else reading the thread told him off.I don't think we are overlooking the positivity by any stretch, I mean goodness knows we have come a long way and despite a few reappearing regulars, most of us are pretty civil and united in the goal of keeping this a welcoming place. But as is with any social site, the bad actors always make the most noise, and that could be the first thing a new dev sees, and we absolutely do not want that.For all Ian's advising devs to steer clear of this forum, the devs don't have much to lose, as they have valuable feedback from influential figures in the accessibility advocates/consultants field, including Ian himself, Brandon Cole, and many others, who, guess what, don't even need a forum to reach out to these developers. Pulling the Ian's part of the problem card is not a good idea, because true or not, it's a useless manoeuvre that goes against the sentiment that is making this forum a pottentially better place so that maybe more developers cold be encouraged to come here.TLDR: The only ones that are part of the problem are those causing the drama in the first place, thus tarnishing this community's reputation. But even a hard stance can always change, and talking of positivity, the time it took to falsely label Ian as part of the problem could have been spent posting something that doesn't make this issue so black-and-white. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499267/#p499267 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @Zakc93: To be a bit more clear, I linked to that topic for reference, but I was focusing specifically on Ian's post reminding people that the general negative attitude that prompted the topic in the first place is one of the reasons why he turns most developers away from the forum now. It's true that infighting can happen anywhere, but for a that to be a developer's first impression of a never-heard-of-until-now community would not make them want to invest further into their games. The Code 7 topic was, to make a long story short, a variation of what happened with Galactic Colonies presented on the forum. Not so much a review but a disproportionate slamming of the developer by one person while pretty much everyone else reading the thread told him off.I don't think we are overlooking the positivity by any stretch, I mean goodness knows we have come a long way and despite a few reappearing regulars, most of us are pretty civil and united in the goal of keeping this a welcoming place. But as is with any social site, the bad actors always make the most noise, and that could be the first thing a new dev sees, and we absolutely do not want that.For all Ian's advising devs to steer clear of this forum, the devs don't have much to lose, as they have valuable feedback from influential figures in the accessibility advocates/consultants field, including Ian himself, Brandon Cole, and many others, who, guess what, don't even need a forum to reach out to these developers. Pulling the Ian's part of the problem card is not a good idea, because true or not, it's a useless manoeuvre that goes against the sentiment that is making this forum a pottentially better place so that maybe more developers cold be encouraged to come here.TLDR: The only ones that are part of the problem are those causing the drama in the first place, thus tarnishing this community's reputation. But even a hard stance can always change, and talking of positivity, the time it took to falsely label Ian as part of the problem could have been spent posting something that doesn't make this issue so black-and-white. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499267/#p499267 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @98:Your first example is actually a counterpoint to what you're trying to say. I remember that topic, and as far as I remember most if not everyone supported the developer and were shocked that someone would do that, meaning this is not an issue of the forum. Refusing to send people here is not going to prevent people from leaving crappy reviews on the app store! In fact it will as was shown on that topic lead to people going to give it good ratings. I'll check out the second link later, haven't seen that one yet. Also didn't follow the goldgun thing but it does ring a bell so will search for that. But the thing is, no matter where a developer posts something they're pretty much always going to get criticism mixed in with praise, that is not something that is in any way unique to this forum and in fact is often worse in other places. So I still don't see the problem. I mean in post 30 of this topic Liam himself criticises a game, it's just what people do when they don't like something. I don't know who this Ian guy is, but if he has influence and he's using it to turn people away then in my opinion he's part of the problem. What you're saying is an extreme exaggeration if you're characterising the entire forum like that. Can you name anywhere where people can post comments that doesn't have the above mentioned happen ever? I would actually say it's relatively rare on this forum and generally kept in check by the mods.Also, hatred towards the mods has gone down dramatically from what it used to be. I know there was a user named moonwalker who was an example of this, but as far as I remember they were banned for something, and the other people have either come around or left, so I don't think that's really a thing anymore.In general people really seem overly negative and exaggerating the negatives while overlooking the positives. I mean most developers get a lot of support and constructive criticism, and the the mods often get a lot of support for most of their decisions. I just find it interesting that people just ignore this and disproportionally focus on the negatives. Not that we should ignore the negatives, obviously they do need to be addressed, but exaggerating them beyond their actual scope is not going to help. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499259/#p499259 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Eh, I'd believe that more if topics like this didn't keep popping up. Whatever. I get what I want out of this place, and what it doesn't have, I can find elsewhere, like has been said before. So... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499261/#p499261 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @98:Your first example is actually a counterpoint to what you're trying to say. I remember that topic, and as far as I remember most if not everyone supported the developer and were shocked that someone would do that, meaning this is not an issue of the forum. Refusing to send people here is not going to prevent people from leaving crappy reviews on the app store! In fact it will as was shown on that topic lead to people going to give it good ratings. I'll check out the second link later, haven't seen that one yet. Also didn't follow the goldgun thing but it does ring a bell so will search for that. But the thing is, no matter where a developer posts something they're pretty much always going to get criticism mixed in with praise, that is not something that is in any way unique to this forum and in fact is often worse in other places. So I still don't see the problem. I mean in post 30 of this topic Liam himself criticises a game, it's just what people do when they don't like something. I don't know who this Ian guy is, but if he has influence and he's using it to turn people away then in my opinion he's part of the problem. What you're saying is an extreme exaggeration if you're characterising the entire forum like that. Can you name anywhere where people can post comments that doesn't have the above mentioned happen ever? I would actually say it's relatively rare on this forum and generally kept in check by the mods.Also, hatred towards the mods has gone down dramatically from what it used to be. I know there was a user named moonwalker who was an example of this, but as far as I remember they were banned for something, and the other people have either come around or left, so I don't think that's really a thing anymore. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499259/#p499259 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @98:Your first example is actually a counterpoint to what you're trying to say. I remember that topic, and as far as I remember most if not everyone supported the developer and were shocked that someone would do that, meaning this is not an issue of the forum. Refusing to send people here is not going to prevent people from leaving crappy reviews on the app store! In fact it will as was shown on that topic lead to people going to give it good ratings. I'll check out the second link later, haven't seen that one yet. Also didn't follow the goldgun thing but it does ring a bell so will search for that. But the thing is, no matter where a developer posts something they're pretty much always going to get criticism mixed in with praise, that is not something that is in any way unique to this forum and in fact is often worse in other places. So I still don't see the problem. I mean in post 30 of this topic Liam himself criticises a game, it's just what people do when they don't like something. I don't know who this Ian guy is, but if he has influence and he's using it to turn people away then in my opinion he's part of the problem. What you're saying is an extreme exaggeration if you're characterising the entire forum like that. Can you name anywhere where people can post comments that doesn't have the above mentioned happen ever? I would actually say it's relatively rare on this forum and generally kept in check by the mods. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499259/#p499259 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Jack,I completely agree with you. I'm just kinda confused as to why nobody has pointed this out yet, and why there's still a giant hate boner for the mods in some parts of the community. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499248/#p499248 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @matt1211: Fair point. I think there's pretty much a unanimous hate of region locking across damn near the entire internet though. And that is a completely different argument altogether, since it isn't exactly straight-up overt pirating by any stretch of content. Thre is also pretty open-season discussion about the evils of pervasive drm, as long as people aren't soliciting discussions of ways to pirate content/suggesting methods that go beyond making inaccessible drm content accessible into the realms of public sharing, then. A lot of DRM tactics go beyond legality into corporate lockin anyhow, and most indie devs even don't like pervasive drm initially, indeed this is why we're seeing so many devs on itch.io URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499245/#p499245 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. So there are some people vilifying the mods still, and I really don't understand why.Nobody has pointed this out here, so I'm gonna.Netflix does not approve of using a VPN to get content you shouldn't. In fact, they are blocking most of them, to the point you need to find certain vpn's that work. This isn't hard, but the mods aren't sensoring discussion of this, so why are people jumping down their throats like they're everything wrong with this world? Seriously people... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499244/#p499244 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. A cancel culture smear. Some easily offended people were literally hacking the account and trying to get to the bottom of who was running it when it's really none of their concern. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499236/#p499236 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Well shit, that really sucks. I can picture that happening, though. People get butthurt far too easily these days. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499230/#p499230 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Literally like, a day or so ago? Something like that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499222/#p499222 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. When did Unfiltered Blind Tweets have to shut down their account? I've been away from Twitter for a bit. That really sucks, I liked them a lot. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499219/#p499219 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @Zakc93: I'm afraid your argument is busted. It would only work if mainstream developers weren't the target of many an attack from a community that occasionally alternates between ass-kissing and straight-up vilifying when it comes to a new dev on the block. Examples:the recent situation with Galactic Colonies and Ian's postIanhamilton wrote:@14 "The solution to the problem is for some devs to provide a sort of accessibility framework to be easier for devs to produce." Already exists. Made by the person who made the post.@57 "I’m quite scared that this game will not be made accessible" You should be way more scared than that.So to be absolutely clear here, this is not an issue about an individual game. Michelle, the developer who posted that blog post, is also responsible for the unity accessibility plugin. When she talks about the company being anti accessibility the implications go way way beyond a single game.There was a tweet the other day about her being on an internal hackathon team buildijg a prototype of native in-engine Unity screenreader support. It is no exaggeration at all to say that things are at a turning point at the moment and I'd you lose Michelle then the blind accessibility effort will be set back by years.It's precisely this kind of "fuck developers" attitude that made me stop sending developers to this forum.To be blunt accessibility is not going to happen by itself. Outside of CVAA it's still a very tough sell, it's not like other industries where there is a legal imperative so you're reliant entirely on goodwill and winning hearts and minds. If you want it to happen you need to make it happen, and making it happen means encouraging success, not hating on your biggest allies for them not quite managing to drive change at the speed that you like.Standing by is not an option, if you want mainstream accessibility to become a reality you need to stop the people in the community who are sabotaging it, and throw every ounce of support behind your allies who are fighting to change things for the better. Like Michelle.and this topic slamming code7And the Goldgun fallout which needs no explanation as that wasn't that long ago, so we all know how that went down. The point is that developers are overly hero-worshipped if they have something out that's accessible, but mention the fact that people will have to wait a bit and the instant-grat folks are jumping down their throat, as if they are developers who know all the ins and outs of reinventing a ui to be accessible. If you are not an apologist for this kind of behavior (I am not implying you are), you will see why your argument is busted after reading these threads. The fact that Ian is turning developers away from this forum has never made him part of the problem. The blame falls on the shoulders of many in this community who have tarnished its reputation. First impressions are a powerful thing, and developers who see a bunch of entitled blinks who go at each other's throats, pirate/fork code, and be complete jerks to developers who are actually trying to become accessible are not going to want to have anything to do with this community, cva or otherwise. There's no point in sugarcoating it anymore. Any move that even tries to shift the blame away from this community is misguided, and while it certainly doesn't automatically make that person part of the problem if such is not the intention, it doesn't get us anywhere. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499173/#p499173 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @Zakc93: I'm afraid your argument is busted. It would only work if mainstream developers weren't the target of many an attack from a community that occasionally alternates between ass-kissing and straight-up vilifying when it comes to a new dev on the block. Examples:the recent situation with Galactic Colonies and Ian's postIanhamilton wrote:@14 "The solution to the problem is for some devs to provide a sort of accessibility framework to be easier for devs to produce." Already exists. Made by the person who made the post.@57 "I’m quite scared that this game will not be made accessible" You should be way more scared than that.So to be absolutely clear here, this is not an issue about an individual game. Michelle, the developer who posted that blog post, is also responsible for the unity accessibility plugin. When she talks about the company being anti accessibility the implications go way way beyond a single game.There was a tweet the other day about her being on an internal hackathon team buildijg a prototype of native in-engine Unity screenreader support. It is no exaggeration at all to say that things are at a turning point at the moment and I'd you lose Michelle then the blind accessibility effort will be set back by years.It's precisely this kind of "fuck developers" attitude that made me stop sending developers to this forum.To be blunt accessibility is not going to happen by itself. Outside of CVAA it's still a very tough sell, it's not like other industries where there is a legal imperative so you're reliant entirely on goodwill and winning hearts and minds. If you want it to happen you need to make it happen, and making it happen means encouraging success, not hating on your biggest allies for them not quite managing to drive change at the speed that you like.Standing by is not an option, if you want mainstream accessibility to become a reality you need to stop the people in the community who are sabotaging it, and throw every ounce of support behind your allies who are fighting to change things for the better. Like Michelle.and this topic slamming code7And the Goldgun fallout which needs no explanation as that wasn't that long ago, so we all know how that went down. The point is that developers are overly hero-worshipped if they have something out that's accessible, but mention the fact that people will have to wait a bit and the instant-grat folks are jumping down their throat, as if they are developers who know all the ins and outs of reinventing a ui to be accessible. If you are not an apologist for this kind of behavior (I am not implying you are), you will see why your argument is busted after reading these threads. The fact that Ian is turning developers away from this forum has never made him part of the problem. The blame falls on the shoulders of many in this community who have tarnished its reputation. First impressions are a powerful thing, and developers who see a bunch of entitled blinks who go at each other's throats, pirate/fork code, and be complete jerks to developers who are actually trying to become accessible are not going to want to have anything to do with this community, cva or otherwise. There's no point in sugarcoating it anymore. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499173/#p499173 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Let's not pigeon-hole anyone, blind or sighted.This means that rooms for separate audio games and mainstream games just sounds like an awful idea, and assuming that the sighted will show up here and restrict themselves to one tiny corner of the forum which interests them is likewise, ahem, a little shortsighted, if you'll pardon the pun. Yes, some of them doubtless will do this, but some won't.I also agree with the idea that the bad behaviour present here need not fully define us. Unfortunately, if people are seeing links to gray-area copyrighted material and whatnot, it can lead to problems we simply don't need.Nocturnis, I realize you don't like one of my previous posts. I don't blame you. I don't like it either. I don't like saying, in essence, "You know what? We're the people with the power, and this is what we say". But I feel like all other attempts at logic and reasonable discourse have failed, and at the end of the day, this forum is not a public street-corner. It's an entity where some people do, in fact, happen to have more decision-making authority than others. And while that divide should never be widened to further personal agenda, sometimes it's just a fact. We had the ability to make a choice; we believed that choice was correct; ergo, we made it, and the best thing to do is to try and accept it. I loathe this sort of reasoning, but what else is there to do when all else appears to fail?Also? The argument of "the community wants, the community gets" is busted. I bet you that many people in the community want free games, too, but that doesn't mean they should get them. What it comes down to is this. The community does have a voice, and ignoring that voice outright, with no reason or justification given, is awful if you want to keep that community's respect. However, deciding to oppose the community voice should only be done if there is good reason; here, I think there's good reason. Put another way, we truly do respect opinions and your right to speak your mind, even if we ultimately don't agree with you. Please don't take disagreement or lack of capitulation as a sign that we don't listen. After all, in a big-picture sense, I feel like we work with the community far, far more often than we go against it, and I'd like to say that most of that has led to bigger and better things. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499136/#p499136 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Sighted people aren’t going to look around. There is too much they won’t understand. They will just get straight to the point, making 1 topic with a hundred questions. And that is fine and reasonable URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499124/#p499124 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. The way I see it, developers who come on here would create a topic and mostly stick to that topic. Maybe look for other topics relating to their game, but most likely not have the time to really read through all the other unrelated stuff. Which means they probably won't be too bothered by the issues we have on here if they even notice them at all. In that case I feel like the people telling them not to come here are the real problem, or at least a bigger problem than the forum troublemakers in that regard. And just to clarify because someone's probably going to misinterpret this, I'm not saying cloning etc isn't a problem, I'm just saying with regard to scaring away developers who otherwise would have posted on here the people who tell them not to are doing a lot more damage. If everyone maintains how shitty this place is then it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy, and people won't come hear because they heard it's bad, rather than due to anything that actually happens. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499111/#p499111 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. It really should. @Simba: Creating a second forum doesn't do anything to fix the current one. Even a second forum room. What we can do to bridge the gap even more is to instead:1. Stop the dickwaving contests between different gamer-types; dare I say it, even Blindfold Games does have a crowd to cater to despite the investment vs return value on some of their stuff. Not everyone is going to prefer an fps, or a level-grinder, or any of that, just because for some it isn't their cup of tea. And you know what, that's ok. But some people take the fight to, quote, simplistic games, way too far, without considering the older less technically literate iPhone beginner who wants some quick games to play, and may not mind spending the money on stuff.2. Cut the cloning, seriously this needs no explanation.3. Don't complain/leave criminally low ratings when accessibility is not implemented but is showing signs of progress. I.e. don't do what the Code7 complainers did a year and a half ago, or what happened with the Crafting Kingdom developer.This post is going to piss off some. But unfortunately, as was proven by Unfiltered Blind Tweets being harassed into shutting down their account, most of the accountability avoiders in a community will immediately get on the defensive when its themselves who they are hearing about. And that, kind of needs to stop if we're going to get anywhere. By saying ahh screw it, let's just create a new forum room/forum, that, whether intended or not, is just an easy way to disassociate from stuff rather than actively try to fix our problems. Beyond that, gatekeeping has never been, and will never be, a good way to bridge communities. It does quite the opposite, in fact. Furthermore it's also kind of a slap in the face to this site that has been around longer than most social networking sites today, probably about as long as Google's been common. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499085/#p499085 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. connor142 wrote:I mean... not like it matters much. Consultants and contracters like Ian Hamilton already actively tell their employers to avoid ag.net because of all the cloning crap.Se to me that matters quite a lot, and should bother everyone on this forum. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499026/#p499026 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. And also why it pays to have an actual developer on the moderation panel. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499025/#p499025 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. connor142 wrote:I mean... not like it matters much. Consultants and contracters like Ian Hamilton already actively tell their employers to avoid ag.net because of all the cloning crap.Yep, and that´s exactly why the moderators are trying to clean this place up so to speak. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499022/#p499022 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I Just read the first page of this topic, and felt like I'm watching harry potter. All that you know who and you know what stuff URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/499000/#p499000 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. considering the gap between sighted and blind gamers, creating a seperate room enforce it more URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498989/#p498989 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Hi.At Conner yep and they're pritty much doing the right thing there, that's why I also said we might need a completely new forum for blind accessible video gamin.Greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498987/#p498987 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I mean... not like it matters much. Consultants and contracters like Ian Hamilton already actively tell their employers to avoid ag.net because of all the cloning crap. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498985/#p498985 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. The problem with segregated game room topics (mainstream vs. audio games) is that it then sets a vague distinction. What if a mainstream developer releases a game that's focused on an audio only experience? What if a developer releases and audio game that also has graphical aspects?A couple examples:The Dark Citadel is an audio only experience that's available through the Amazon Echo platform. It's made available to the general populus by virtue of being available on this smart device, but it doesn't use any graphical details in the game's interface. Does this make the game a video game? an audio game?Bulwark is a game that features both audio and video gaming options, but it's not developed by a well known studio. Does that mean it qualifies as mainstream? If it does, is it an audio or a video game?The line here wouldn't be very clear, and indeed probably shouldn't be drawn. I'm perfectly fine with it being a general game discussion area, not a divided experience, as we already suffer enough with that already. Lets not set a bad standard by trying to artificially define and group games in this way -- a game is a game, be it mainstream, indepdent, audio, or video.Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498957/#p498957 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Need I remind folks about A C B's Audio Description Project? (which now has info about free described movies from IMBD/Amazon Prime.) URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498950/#p498950 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Need I remind folks about A C B's [url=""> URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498950/#p498950 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I completely disagree, Simba. The last thing we need is more blind/sighted segrigation, and exactly that will happen by separating the rooms. Besides, it's not causing any issues, so why fix something that's not broken? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498945/#p498945 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Hi.At Liam well I don't really see how this could be confusing to add more rooms to the forum, it could just be a room placed in between or on top of the forum overview or in between general game discussion and new releases.General game discussion could be then renamed to general audiogame discussion. If we want to be open to more mainstream developers, we should in my opinion try to clear up the forum abit so topics don't mix up as they now do.greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498925/#p498925 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Well in the site's defense, it was general game discussion, not general audiogame discussion. Even before we had mainstream devs coming on the forums, there were folks discussing mainstream game playability. Separating the two categories wouldn't be all that symbolic in terms of trying to bridge the gap between the mainstream and accessibility, even though audio games as we know them are in a league of their own compared to mainstream games. I do remember Klango having a mainstream games discussion room, but obviously no devs came onto there since it was way before the universal accessibility era. That may explain why even Elten, as robust as it is, is not catching on the same way Klango did. It's as much of a niche as Voraile is, only there are more mainstream social media-integrated people throwing shots at Voraile, often rightfully so. In this day and age, having our own blind this, blind that, is often times a step backward, and while in the gaming scene that is not looked at the same way for very obvious reasons, you can call it that for damn near anything else. I.e. investing/advocating for fixing stuff we already have, rather than throwing us off into our own alternate universe.Re, Wikipedia: Just because Wikipedia has articles about elicit sites doesn't necessarily mean they are getting away with it freely. If you look at what goes on behind the scenes, all those sites, Pirate Bay included, have a lot of disposable funds to fight the RIAA/MPAA in the legal uphill battle. Creative Commons is an often underestimated force, and while a lot of independent content creators have launched highly successful careers through it, it's still being hardwalled by big entertainment execs. Wikipedia, among other free-information sites, has been the target of many an attack (remember what would've been with Sopa and Pipa?) The war on content is very much alive and brewing, it's just not going to be frontpage news if you aren't looking. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498909/#p498909 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I remember a while back we had discussed spinning mainstream gaming off to it's own room, but I believe people thought it would be too confusing to add more rooms. Thus why we have one new releases vs. a release room per platform.It's something to think about though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498903/#p498903 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Hi.Well imo it would already help if Mainstream game discussion could be moved to a room of it's own so we don't have audiogames and mainstream games all in one room and one who is only interested in one category would need to search the hole room till he finds a topic he is interested in.A better way would be to uncupple the hole mainstream discussion and move it to a new forum entirely, so mainstream devs and interested people would have one adress for video games.Greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498896/#p498896 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I like the idea of removing the off topic room, but I agree with Liam that that most likely won't happen. Unless the sight was completely taken over by other hands. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498887/#p498887 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Nah, remove everything except the spambots; we know they provide the most intelligent content, after all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498882/#p498882 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Hey. How about we remove all the games categories and leave off topic? Stop punching me! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498878/#p498878 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Yeah, what he said. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498876/#p498876 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I highly highly highly times 100 doubt that is ever going to happen, so relax. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498871/#p498871 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I dunno... I mean, either we have the OT room with rules and regulations because they have to exist to benefit the site and risk offending people because they don't get to post precisely what they want to when they want to, or we remove it and set our focus entirely on audiogaming, which sounds more productive as far as I'm concerned.Of course, this is all hypothetical as, A, I"m not an admin, B I'm not even part of the panel and, C I don't expect anyone to take this crap seriously anyway and then actually have it acted on. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498868/#p498868 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
2020-02-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Blind angel 444 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies. @grryfindore I sent you a pm. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498865/#p498865 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Seriously? Removing the off topic room? That room's been around since at least 2011 when I signed up, and beyond the occasional flame war about ideals, it's never been a problem. Just stay out of that section if you don't want to read it. The mods can move topics for a reason if they're not placed in the correct room. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498863/#p498863 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Na, it's still audio games. The off topic room is just that, and it's not the largest or fastest growing either. Plus, I don't even think this forum is really part of the actual sight. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498854/#p498854 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Wonder what would happen if the sight was brought back to its an audio games and gaming related focus. And if this is going to stay the way it is, shouldn't the name be changed to include the rest of the stuff? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498849/#p498849 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Just do one of the several things suggested to get your hands on things not in your country. Use a VPN, or hell, do what jayde once said a long time ago, by a moovie, and if you need audio discription, go download that from the vault. There you go. It's legal enough if you buy. If you can't pay, then just don't. do your research. If you need to ask about audio discribed content or can't find it, just send a forum email or pm to someone who can get you what you need, such as Gryffindor. The mods can't really do any thing to stop this and even if they could I don't think they would. There, done. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498840/#p498840 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Just do one of the several things suggested to get your hands on things not in your country. Use a VPN, or hell, do what jayde once said a long time ago, by a moovie, and if you need audio discription, go download that from the vault. There you go. It's legal enough. If you need to ask about audio discribed content or can't find it, just send a forum email or pm to someone who can get you what you need, the mods can't really do any thing to stop this and even if they could I don't think they would. There, done. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498840/#p498840 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Just do one of the several things suggested to get your hands on things not in your country. Use a VPN, or hell, do what jayde once said a long time ago, by a moovie, and if you need audio discription, go download that from the vault. There you go. It's legal enough. If you need to ask about audio discribed content, just send a forum email or pm to someone who can get you what you need. There, done. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498840/#p498840 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I've been debating whether to say this or not, and I've decided to go for it.The rule does not match my personal views, but we still have to uphold it. We don't necessarily, fully, run the show here, we've got Richard and Sendermen who are the webmasters, not us. If it was just us, I do wonder if things might be a little bit different.To the person asking why would a developer care if someone starts posting links to audio described content:From a personal standpoint, I don't think they necessarily would... until we get to the bigger companies. If someone from a bigger company notices, then informs others, that's when things could get nasty. That can very easily spread, and then we'd all have a bad rep. No bigger companies would come here because one saw someone give a link to Game of Thrones for free or something to that effect. It's a plausable scenario.Secondly: What about the DMCA bots I keep on hearing about, shutting down websites with DMCA notices. Richard and Sendermen, well, I don't know how often they check in here. If a DMCA notice were to be received, and they don't act... that'll be it. We'd lose our community, the history of audiogames, and a resource, in one hit.Let's put this short and sweet. While I don't necessarily fully like the rule, if it comes down to it for now, if I had to choose between our forum and asking for a movie, I'd choose saving the entire forum. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498829/#p498829 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Is that why I keep getting kicked out of Walmart? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498825/#p498825 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. It's worth it to note that audiogames.net is not hosted in the U.S. Your constitutional First Amendment is not guaranteed if you're judging it based on this ground. Now I can't swear that the site's home country doesn't also have free speech provisions, but we shouldn't automatically assume a website is bound by the First Amendment. In fact, even a site in the U.S. isn't required to guarantee express rights of Free Speech, so long as the site is a private entity, and your frequenting the premises or services places you under their purview. If you walk into a Walmart, for example, you're not allowed to just freely shout that you hate this race or that, or this group or that. Walmart as a private institution has the right to evict you from their premises on grounds of being a public nuisance or causing a social disruption, and so too can any privately owned website in the country. It's only publicly owned (Federal, State, etc) establishments where these rights cannot be impinged upon, and even there you're required to obey certain bylaws that would preserve the integrity and civility of the establishment.Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498818/#p498818 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. You know, I almost can't help but agree with that sentiment. Perhaps the problem is the off topic room! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498817/#p498817 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. So before people keep hammering the filtered word point. You may have noticed we have removed the word censors. We are still censoring some popular links however.And yes. I agree. it was a lot better when it was just about games. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498815/#p498815 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. This sight has gone a weird way. It was nice when it was actually about audio games and game related materials. Since topics about everything else has been allowed it has just turned an odd direction. And by filtering out words aren't you limiting free speach? I could understand not giving a link, but to take away the mention of it is quite fucked up. Their will always be people who will want free access to things, and their are also countries who don't allow access to the things people should have acces too. Audio described stuff for example. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498812/#p498812 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Ok I almost feel like 58 is not really worth responding to but I've decided to anyway. Just because people think homosexual marriages are ok or the death penalty for not following a certain religion is wrong, does that mean we have to change that? The point of course being that sometimes rules are wrong. If a lot of people disagree with something, have you considered there might just be a reason for it? Also, this isn't just about having stuff for free (even though that might be the motivation for some), but getting access to things you otherwise can't. But you probably already know that and just don't really care. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498790/#p498790 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @60 I'm fairly confident no developer will be put off by the fact that someone on some topic somewhere on the forum posted a link to audio only tracks of movies, I mean why would they? On the other hand, I can see how developers might be put off by the moderators' stance on use of sounds. They might feel that they don't want to go through the hassle of ensuring all their sounds are legal, and rather not bother developing an audio game in the first place. Please explain how that is not more likely? Also, I know people love making slippery slope arguments for everything, but I really don't buy it. Based on what do you think allowing discussion of the audiovault will lead to people demanding more free stuff? I'm sure you're aware the absolute vast majority of people are and have always been against the cracking of audiogames. What else exactly do you think people are going to expect? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498788/#p498788 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Also. Another thing that people don't think/care about. You realize that we have a lot more mainstream devs visit our corner, right?This does not make us look good or help our cause. I constantly hear people say. I wish x game was accessible. or How come we can't play this version of Y? Am I saying that someone seeing Nocturnus give Jayde a copy of episode 5 of Spongebob would cause us not to be able to play Forza 8? No. But what I am saying is that we have to absolutely put our best foot forward. There are not a gazillion forums that developers can go to to solicit for help from blind gamers. Why do we want to jeopardize that?yes I understand that audio description is a gray area, but making allowances on one thing will then cause people to expect more and more.If you absolutely have to share episodes of Dora the Explorer, you have many other venues available to do so. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498780/#p498780 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. He lies, it's 8! I just checked! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498775/#p498775 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @Liam:Like example (dot) site(dot)com (remove the dot and you got this) would be a word puzzle IMOAlso for everyone crying foul over it and saying the community needs a sayyou all /did/ have a say. So if the community was to, extreme example time, decide among themselves that cracking Liam's games was okay, or Rory's or Sam's or crack Swamp, should the mods then allow that because 'the community thinks it is okay'RL comparison. Should stealing be made legal because people think it is? No. And the rules here should not change because a few people want shit for free. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498772/#p498772 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I used the term word puzzles, but esentially it's people trying to give the URL for a site, but doing it in such a way where they can claim they're not linking to it. Examples escape me. It's only 7:00 in the morning. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498769/#p498769 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Liam, one quick question.What did you mean word puzzels? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498767/#p498767 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. thanks Liam. I kind of find the hole thing confusing I understand that if you can pay for something, why not, but if a certain country doesn't have access to certain AD content, what's what's the harm in helping if one can? I myself have contributed to said website. I don't mind in the slightest I've spent the money to help where and when , and is there anything wrong with paying it forward? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498760/#p498760 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Agreed with Zak. Also, this is a community site. If the large majority of the community is saying one thing, the rule should be changed URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498761/#p498761 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. thanks Liam. I kind of find the hole thing confusing I understand thatif you can pay for something, why not, but if a certain country doesn't have access to certain AD content, what's what's the harm in helping if one can? I myself have contributed to said website. I don't mind in the slightest I've spent the money to help where, and is there anything wrong when paying it forward? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498760/#p498760 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I suppose bringing this up again is kind of pointless because we've been through this already, but I really still don't get it. What exactly is the point of the rule? The reasons seem to not always be exactly the same, but the most common one is that it might get the site in trouble. But if a site like wikipedia can have articles on (which includes links to) sites like pirate bay, sci-hub and library genesis without consequences, then how is this site going to get into trouble for having a few posts among thousands that link to a website with audio only content? Who is actually going to care? I can't get the logic behind this at all. From where I stand at the moment it really looks more like a personal moral crusade rather than concern for the site. I don't mean to offend anyone, but this is just the impression I'm getting from what has been said. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498755/#p498755 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I suppose bringing this up again is kind of pointless because we've been through this already, but I really still don't get it. What exactly is the point of the rule? The reasons seem to not always be exactly the same, but the most common one is that it might get the site in trouble. But if a site like wikipedia can have articles on (which includes links to) sites like pirate bay, sci-hub and library genesis without consequences, then how is this site going to get into trouble for having a few posts among thousands that link to a website with audio only content? Who is actually going to care? I can't get the logic behind this at all. From where I stand at the moment it really looks more like a personal moral crusade rather than concern for the site. I don't mean to offend anyone, but this is just the impression I'm getting from what has been said. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498755/#p498755 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. As we can not check PM's. No. it wouldn't. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498752/#p498752 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. so, just wondering, I understand, that poasting a direct link goes against forum rules, but if you PM someone, would that go against them as well? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498750/#p498750 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. When I read posts like 39 I get a little uncomfortable, not because I'm not capable of following the rules... I've clearly shown I can as I've never received a moderation warning or worse. In fact, I've been a moderator, so I know the general idea here.But to proclaim that the mods, not the community, have the word that matters most in the community when a community exists for its members... All, of its members, then I do take issue. As it stands, I also realize that this site and all of its content are a privilege, not a right. So while I once again disagree with the way 39 was phrased and even put forth, I have to do my best to try and look at the big picture as a whole, which is not easy for me to do. Please pay attention to the first line of post 39 and take it to heart, as it goes along with what little I know about Jayde and is entirely consistent with who he is. And I'll quote for anyone who doesn't want to scroll back up, "I really hate that I'm having to say this." Unquote.As a mod I had many experiences I hated, but the one I hated most and which brought me no end of grief was one where I banned someone who managed to get their hands on a bunch of scripts and made their own version of a game based on said scripts. I'm not going to go in to specifics beyond that accept to say that my original thought was, "So somebody got a database and pulled it together and wants to show it off. So what? Why am I banning him?"The answer? Because rules! Because there's rules that say I must! Because there's rules that he's breaking and I have to uphold them! Because that's what I was given the responsibility to do! While I came at it from a different angle in post 30, I like what at 33 says. Stuff shouldn't cost money; we made it that way. That's always been my big beaf with corporations, that the big guys at the top really end up with the proffit by exploiting the labor of the little guys at the bottom. Do you really believe your favorite artist is actually getting it equall in comparison to the company he or she works for? If they're a vocalist or pianist or other musician, do you think their work is paid in full when you compare it to the execs at the top cutting all the deals and the lawyers who write the contracts?And no, that doesn't just apply to the little guy who started yesterday. Ever heard of Mariah Carey? If you have you know she's been around for awhile and had massive success. did you also know her record label screwed her out of 80million dollars because she got sick? No, she probably won't hurt for those 80 million, but that's not the point. The point is quite simply that as long as someone exists at the top who's raking in more cash and who has a secure position in that respect over you they will always have the final word, and as long as cash exists to enable that practice that will always be the case.But all of this crap goes right out the window when we become mods on ag net. Why? Because rules say so! Me personally? I'd rather everyone had games to play! I'd rather those games be free! If I had multi-millions I'd come back here and give away the titles the way I purchased AHC for 5 people, then got 15 other copies thanks to the rest of the community. I don't want money. I don't need money. I need my family's needs to be met. I need them clothed, fed, sheltered. I hate money, but it's the only way at present to make a living, and that goes for everyone involved, gamer or developer alike. This is the reason we must uphold. This is the reason we must respect even if we cannot agree! I do not agree! I hate it! I'm sick of it! There are games I'm never going to get to play because there are other things I need to buy that take higher priority on my list!My wife is seriously ill and requires medical assistance, medical assistance the state and indeed the country do not want to give her. Of the little bit of money we make at present, some of that has to go to medical transportation; yes... We must! Pay! For her to go to her appointments. I don't fault the uber or lift drivers; they're just doing their job. I don't fault the company providing the service, really. They're just trying to make a proffit as is our general need at present. I blame money.And I don't blame audiogames.net for not giving me every title I wish I could ever play for free. I never have and I never will. And if rare releases a title that is accessible as a certain reveal trailer seems to suggest they just might, I won't blame audiogames.net because I don't have the money to play it and ask for links to grab it up. My circumstances are not audiogames.net or Rareware's fault and never have been. I bought perfect dark, and if and or when I have the money to buy their new title if it interests me enough to do so, I will.You may say all of these points do not apply to audio described movies and other TV content, b
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Example 2 is an attempt to pirate, yes, but it is also an attempt not to directly link to anything. This is why I say it's dubious, and why I also said we'd really rather you didn't do that sort of thing, but it's a little less awful than the first example.and...yeah, that dig at Liam was utterly uncalled for. Knock it off. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498734/#p498734 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. @45:Wouldn't example 2 show intent though? You keep saying (as a team, not you personally) that intent matters with rule 3, so wouldn't example 2 be /intended/ to break it?Also, lol at thisisforpirates.com...well played. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498732/#p498732 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Oh and as for the snipe at me about quitting the team?My reason to originally step back was 100 percent personal. I'm not getting in to that as it's no one's business what goes on in my personal life, and what I'm dealing with.thankyouverymuch. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498726/#p498726 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Grryfindore, your post doesn't violate any rules. Don't worry.As far as I'm concerned, our aim here was to stop people being able to share links directltly. It wasn't to suppress any and all chat about any pirated material at all. Here, I'll give a couple of really quick and dirty examples.Example 1: If you guys want to listen to the pokemon anime for free and with description go to www.thisisforpirates.com and look up pokemon.Explanation: This is something we aren't okay with. As far as we're concerned, if audio description allows us to get enough out of media that we can enjoy it, and we can get it for free while the sighted cannot, this is not reasonable. Also, most (though by no means all) sites which offer this sort of thing tend to go even further. We're not taking chances. We can't stop you going there or advertising privately or among your own circles. We just don't want the links or the encouragement public.Example 2: I've looked on four different sites and I can't find Golden Girls audio described. Does the vault have it?Explanation: This is dubious. It's not dead wrong, but the user clearly has already been doing some research of their own. We'd really rather you -not do this, but will we warn you the instant you do? No, probably not, as that seems like extremism, as you put it.If we wanted to be extreme about it, there are dozens of other words, combinations of words and strings we could have filtered, and we could have warned for any number of half a dozen related infractions that we didn't. Is it firm? Yes. Extreme? Not so much, no. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498724/#p498724 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. 43:We're not allowing direct linking, and since we've removed the word censor, we will be more harshly dealing with people who attempt to skirt the rules by using clever word puzzles. Please keep this in mind. if you name drop a site. Alright. Fair enough. We're not going to ban you for mentioning the name of something, but when people (both you and simba especially have been guilty) attempt to circumvent this, we will be dealing with it quite decisively. I believe that clears it up quite nicely. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498725/#p498725 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. hi therehttp://don’tviolatetherules.com/have fun URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498723/#p498723 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Hi, love post 24 and that right there is why the vault exists. +1, mate. Thank you,cartertemm post 26, that filter was a bit much more on that below. At Jade, and specially Liam (as I see him as the major one behind this trend of lableing AD tracks etc as illegal and not in a grey area in which it exists atm, as there are no clear laws for or against this sort of thing.) I do not wish for this to become a flame war, or a shit storm, and the comment which I have written above could very well be Construeded as such, so please remain calm and take these as just my thoughts opinions, just a bit more clear edged and not valed as usual. If I am indeed wrong, I apologise in advance. The post might also be all over the place, as I am not that good at expressing myself (for shame) XD, and due to traveling atm. Rule 3 basicly on most normal websites would be don't share links to pirated/ illegal materials, and even then it would worn people who direct linked to stuff, and hell, if you say we can't even link to a site's homepage that might contain illegal material, I say fine. although obviously mods could go easy on this one depending on the offence, I don't like it but I accept it. What is not acceptable though specially in consideration (refer post 24 on this topic), is filtering the word outright, because that is clearly going overboard (yes, mods have now taken off the filter, cheers for that), and not allowing users to even speak up names. The Number of similar topics that have cropped up in this room alone since the ban, should tell you what sort of a need is there for such a thing, and how many are aware and unaware of AD out there. The Audiovault has always been a community driven project, and most people that use it, helped in creating it, and insure its survival are from this community/ forum itself, so then no wonder why people wish to share it with others who ask for it or maybe are unaware of Audiodescription or the audiovault on here, issuing wornings to users on just that is clearly not done. At first, when you guys pushed for this copywrite change here, many including me were against a very hard/ strict stance, but still you decided to do it anyway. again, fare enough, to a certain extent I understood, did not like it, but kept up with it. You said, I don't like it, but we need to do this to present a clean and squeeky image, all well and good so far, Then slowly over time, I have seen a gradual push towards not allowing names, filter which hasn't been put for anything else out there, but the obvious spam, labling everyone pirates who use such service/ no good (in not so many words) s and so on. What this comes down to is, you need to take a step back, because clearly you have moved on from doing what needs to be done to extremism. Just in case if it is not clear, I do not ask for allowing links to be posted We wouldn't want Liam to threaten to quit the moderation panel, after all... again. (sorry, couldn't help myself there, Liam.), or a discussion thread specificly/ specially for the vault, but for reflection, allowing the blind and visually impaired users on here a right to discovery, no wornings at least when a user is creative and no direct or otherwise links are posted. Case in point,simba (+1 mate, you rock.)Grryf URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498721/#p498721 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. *this * means absolutely nothing. so *! * you, * them, * that, * this and * all these bloody god damn stars! *you are not allowed to tell stars to go away. that was removed*profane language was not edited out by the moderators. it was not even here in the first place!**some random stars have been put here for absolutely no reason whatsoever*there were some stars here but they were removed.*-There were stars here but we figured it would be good to remove them. But we couldn't use stars because then there would be just more stars, so we used dashes in stead.-*this text space surrounded by stars intentionally left blank**shut up rory! come on! just shut your mouth for once with all your st-- oh wait...*Ok I'm done. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498704/#p498704 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Re, Aira: Aira is actually what I used to do my own movie description. Ran the phone through the board to record the call audio. TRuth be told, they have a fairly loose policy on future use of call audio, as long as you aren't profiting off of it and preferably give Aira a mentioning where applicable, have on. And yet I'm still keeping distribution on the dl considering the legal grayarea. Not to be that guy, but the people overtly linking to description sites here clearly aren't doing/haven't done anything to advocate for/improve the audio description situation as a hole, and this is exactly the backward activism we don't need. Again, you could be taking it to the streaming providers, or, if you're inclined, inquiring to Serotech/other commercial companies as to their legal proof to go through audio description avenues. But instead you're taking the easy way out, showing your disagreement on here as if the forum mods are at fault for the way this rule turned out (spoiler alert: they're not, this is just the safest route to take at this point). We already have a tarnished reputation as far as MyTrueSound is concerned since some people have thought it ok to crack Audio Wizards, so do you really want to push it until maybe an audio description agency catches wind of their free work being passed around without attribution?IT's simple. At the very least you could make it easier/less annoying for everyone and, you know, take the elicit shit elsewhere. It's really not that hard. Those of you who choose not to try Reddit/Discord have Elten available, and it's the closest there is to a Klango2.-, for all the blind-friendly interaction you could ever want. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498700/#p498700 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I love how one minute y’all are like, “oh, if audio game piracy is illegal on the forum then why isn’t audio descriptive stuff being posted here for free considered piracy? “And then the next minute you’re saying, “oh w, You guys are being too strict on audio described content.” Seriously people, make up your mind!On another note, I would like to point out that there are some rules that I myself don’t always agree with that times. You know what I’m not doing though? I’m not going out of my way to deliberately break those rules and rubbing it in the face of the moderators, because that would make me a disrespectful asshole. I really wish you guys would show the same respect. This whole thing about coming after the moderators for every little thing is getting really fucking old, really fucking quick. I really honestly hope I’m not breaking any rules myself while getting irritated in this post, but it is really frustrating to see the way people are treating you guys. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498694/#p498694 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I just want to make a more general point here. I really hate that I'm having to say this. You can go ahead and consider my moderation hat on at the moment, though this post will contain no punishments.At this point, the staff team are the ones who have decided which rules work, and which don't. We have a lot of collective experience between us, and we talk things out. There are times when I wish we could have banned someone faster, or times where a rule we agreed was a good idea comes into conflict with my own personal views (this one is tough for me, as a matter of fact). Mostly though, we get along. We agree on stuff. We don't just throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks. No, we aren't perfect, but if we put forth a rule, or amend one, there's always some sort of reason for it.In the case of rule 3, it is meant to protect against edge cases, and is meant as a way to avoid potentially toxic backlash from the mainstream community, which may not take kindly to piracy links being tossed about willy-nilly. By deciding that you can't share piracy stuff publicly here, we're not impinging on your rights as a whole. We're not telling you that you're evil. We're not sitting on high and judging you. We're saying that these are our reasons for making this decision. You don't have to agree with our choice, but if you want to remain here, you would do well to accept it.You are free to remain here so long as you follow rules. If you decide you don't want to follow our rules anymore, please show yourself out. There comes a point where a decision gets made and you can either rail against it or accept it. To those of you who accept it even if you don't agree, I want to personally thank you. It can be teeth-grindingly upsetting to feel muzzled or not listened to; believe me, I get it. But to those of you who want to keep posting links and working hard to make our lives difficult, I can't express to you how disrespectful that feels. Instead of going to the places where this matters - you know, the retailers who provide legal content, say? - you are hassling people who have already made a choice. This choice, as has already been stated, doesn't really hurt any of you at all; go advertise elsewhere, share elsewhere, and we can't lift a finger to stop you. Instead, you somehow think it's productive to keep rabble-rousing. This is the sort of thing the community failure clause was meant to protect against, and it's precisely why I advocated for it almost as soon as I had the voice to do so.Put frankly, we have done our best to make sure our rules are fair, and free of personal preference or any prejudice. But at the end of the day, we can't please everyone and aren't going to try. At the end of the day, what you believe is not relevant. If you remain here, you tacitly agree to behave. If you want to break the rules, and continue to escalate, it is a demonstration that you no longer respect the community enough to deserve a place here.The tl>dr version: if you don't want to follow the rules, then why are you still here? If you want us to respect your point of view, why do you disrespect the work we do by deliberately trying to make it harder? That is not the way to make us take you seriously. In fact, it's apt to garner the opposite effect. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498692/#p498692 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I just want to make a more general point here. I really hate that I'm having to say this. You can go ahead and consider my moderation hat on at the moment, though this post will contain no punishments.At this point, the staff team are the ones who have decided which rules work, and which don't. We have a lot of collective experience between us, and we talk things out. There are times when I wish we could have banned someone faster, or times where a rule we agreed was a good idea comes into conflict with my own personal views (this one is tough for me, as a matter of fact). Mostly though, we get along. We agree on stuff. We don't just throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks. No, we aren't perfect, but if we put forth a rule, or amend one, there's always some sort of reason for it.In the case of rule 3, it is meant to protect against edge cases, and is meant as a way to avoid potentially toxic backlash from the mainstream community, which may not take kindly to piracy links being tossed about willy-nilly. By deciding that you can't share piracy stuff publicly here, we're not impinging on your rights as a whole. We're not telling you that you're evil. We're not sitting on high and judging you. We're saying that these are our reasons for making this decision. You don't have to agree with our choice, but if you want to remain here, you would do well to accept it.You are free to remain here so long as you follow rules. If you decide you don't want to follow our rules anymore, please show yourself out. There comes a point where a decision gets made and you can either rail against it or accept it. To those of you who accept it even if you don't agree, I want to personally thank you. It can be teeth-grindingly upsetting to feel muzzled or not listened to; believe me, I get it. But to those of you who want to keep posting links and working hard to make our lives difficult, I can't express to you how disrespectful that feels. Instead of going to the places where this matters - you know, the retailers who provide legal content, say? - you are hassling people who have already made a choice. This choice, as has already been stated, doesn't really hurt any of you at all; go advertise elsewhere, share elsewhere, and we can't lift a finger to stop you. Instead, you somehow think it's productive to keep rabble-rousing. This is the sort of thing the community failure clause was meant to protect against, and it's precisely why I advocated for it almost as soon as I had the voice to do so.The tl>dr version: if you don't want to follow the rules, then why are you still here? If you want us to respect your point of view, why do you disrespect the work we do by deliberately trying to make it harder? That is not the way to make us take you seriously. In fact, it's apt to garner the opposite effect. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498692/#p498692 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. *first part of the post removed by staff for clear violation of anti-piracy rule*For example some of the movies and shows are recorded from tv, and then placed up here. BTW. audio described spongebob anyone? that use to be on my tv in 2015, but now I think they've killed it, so there's no way we can watch that anymore in belize. fully agree with connor142, filtering this kind of thing is so stupid, and you're just filtering out a site that's clearly showing alot of hart in doing this. And this is not to hammer down on anyone, but mods, can you please ancer me something? Can you tell me who has ever tried or have contacted you about shutting down the website? and I nead an actual ancer, not ones that you always give, I nead an actual, clear and straight ancer. Remember, I don't meen to swing at anyone, I just want a question ancerd.And don't even think that i'm in anyway testing you all, I put the link up just to keep the site around and well. Thanks in advance for your ancers. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498685/#p498685 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Moderation:Juan Reina, this is an official warning. You are in clear and knowing violation of rule 3. You seem to believe that if you screech and argue and push insistently enough, you'll win this battle of wills. I'm sorry to tell you that you're just as wrong now as you were the last time you tried this stunt.You are here because you have tacitly agreed to follow the rules. If you don't intend to follow rules, please leave. If you continue to remain here and persist in willingly violating rules, you will be removed. It's just about that simple. There are good ways to express your discontent with said rules. This was not an effective strategy.Let me state, once again, that we are not beholden to you, or anyone else, who claims that a lack of cease-and-desist or shutdown notice means that we should permit you to advertise links to pirated material. Those things are not related. To be perfectly blunt about it, we are the ones who have unanimously decided on a set of rules for the community to follow. Every one of those rules has sound reasons to support it, even if some of those rules cover unlikely edge cases or encompass morality that you do not personally subscribe to. While we endeavour to explain ourselves and to be understanding where possible, especially when things become complicated, we take a dim view of people who decide to fight fire with fire and deliberately break the rules to try and prove something.Here's the long and short of it. If you're still here, it means you're going to try and follow the rules.Stop acting like we're violating your personal rights by not allowing links to piracy on this website. It's not our fault if you can't get audio description for your favourite show in your country. It's not our fault that streaming services may be outside of your budget; I'm sure lots of sighted people have that latter issue as well. Instead of making our lives on the forum more difficult, how about making some meaningful change?This is simply petty and meaningless. I will be editing your post to remove offensive content. If you attempt to escalate, we will do likewise. I implore you not to do this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498689/#p498689 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. From the website. Welcome to the Audiovault. This site contains the audio only portion of audio described film and TV shows. It is not intended to deprive copyright holders or service providers of income. Rather it is a small Project designed to make it easier for blind people to find and access audio described content that is spread across multiple platforms and countries. link. http://www.audiovault.net/For example some of the movies and shows are recorded from tv, and then placed up here. BTW. audio described spongebob anyone? that use to be on my tv in 2015, but now I think they've killed it, so there's no way we can watch that anymore in belize. fully agree with connor142, filtering this kind of thing is so stupid, and you're just filtering out a site that's clearly showing alot of hart in doing this. And this is not to hammer down on anyone, but mods, can you please ancer me something? Can you tell me who has ever tried or have contacted you about shutting down the website? and I nead an actual ancer, not ones that you always give, I nead an actual, clear and straight ancer. Remember, I don't meen to swing at anyone, I just want a question ancerd.And don't even think that i'm in anyway testing you all, I put the link up just to keep the site around and well. Thanks in advance for your ancers. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498685/#p498685 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. From the website. Welcome to the Audiovault. This site contains the audio only portion of audio described film and TV shows. It is not intended to deprive copyright holders or service providers of income. Rather it is a small Project designed to make it easier for blind people to find and access audio described content that is spread across multiple platforms and countries. link. http://www.audiovault.net/For example some of the movies and shows are recorded from tv, and then placed up here. BTW. audio described spongebob anyone? that use to be on my tv in 2015, but now I think they've killed it, so there's no way we can watch that anymore in belize. fully agree with connor142, filtering this kind of thing is so stupid, and you're just filtering out a site that's clearly showing alot of hart in doing this. And this is not to hammer down on anyone, but mods, can you please ancer me something? Can you tell me who has ever tried or have contacted you about shutting dow the website? and I nead an actual ancer, not ones that you always give, I nead an actual, clear and straight ancer. Remember, I don't meen to swing at anyone, I just want a question ancerd.And don't even think that i'm in anyway testing you all, I put the link up just to keep the site around and well. Thanks in acvance for your ancers. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498685/#p498685 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. well, this went far out the window fast. I think net flix has an audio described button somewhere, so yeah, you folks do what you folks do. I agree with several posts here, about the copyright rule, but i wasn't expecting a topic to go so out of hand, come back slightlly in the end, but still. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498680/#p498680 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. And for anyone who is wondering, I do not know the names of any of these pages.If I did, I wouldn't share them here URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498677/#p498677 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Yeah. Agree with Jayde here.If you're really that interested in pirated content, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if there were a few subreddits out there.I will say that I know that sites dedicated to cracked software exist, but I have never visited them URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498670/#p498670 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. The hell of it is, stuff doesn't actually have to cost money. It does right now, but it needn't.People have been convinced that their time and their expertise should entitle them to money, because they then have to use that money in order to purchase their daily necessities. If necessities were taken care of, one's need for financial compensation would be drastically less.Obviously there was no digital downloading back in Elizabethan times or earlier, but do you think every bard and storyteller plied their craft in order to get rich? No. They often did it in direct exchange for bed and board, or for favour of some kind from whosoever they were entertaining. We've added money to the eequation, and money rules the world now.I wish we existed in a world where people felt that the joy of sharing their gifts with the world was sufficient in and of itself. Unfortunately, we don't. We're stuck with what we've got. So there are just better ways to affect change than to hassle us about our policies here on this specific forum. If this was the only way you could access the internet, you'd have a case. As it's only one tiny corner of said internet, you don't. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498668/#p498668 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Going back to the Netflix topic, a majority of new content on Netflix has Audio Description, so if you look in the section that shows movies and TV shows that were recently added, it most likely will have audio description URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498662/#p498662 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. Hey, so...The sighted people have these eyes, and it makes it so they can see and enjoy things, and we should have the same exact right as they do...So, I'm going to demand that Aira is free for everyone because, well like I said, they have sight, so we have the same right to sight and we are missing out on very very vital things without it.Sign my petition today to get Aira fro free!!!Disclaimer: this is complete sarcasm. I am actually fortunate enough to be able to afford Aira's service. And i like the things they are doing, and how they are starting to make more free offers and more access locations. I do think their service is very pricy, $130 for 2 hours of usage, when people have their sight every second of everyday for free, but I understand they are putting a lot of effort into their work and they are partnering withbig corporations and doing lots of researh to really help us get sighted assistance in a very professional and high quality way. So even though it is pricy, I really do appreciate the attitude they have and the professionalism they carry for such a price tag. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498658/#p498658 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. With @29 here. The first time I saw audio described anything was when I stumbled on it by accident while watching an episode of Spongebob about 17 years ago and my parents had directTV. I say accidental because whatever setting it was we changed was changed back and I never saw anything like that again until hitting the blind-mice site. I'll be honest... I grabbed up a ton of content from there, most of it much older and stuff I had already watched before. Then I wondered how they were obtaining it. Then I wondered if they even had a right to distribute it as they were.Here's the thing... I don't like it. I don't like it one bit. I hate the idea that art is something you have to pay for for a few reasons and they're all reasons I've outlined on other posts and topics. If you buy a song for 99 cents and you only listen to it once in your life, was it worth 99 cents? ON the other hand, if you buy a song and listen to it a thousand times, should it still be worth 99 cents?Someone somewhere has to asign some sort of value to it all because otherwise the artist is worth nothing and is essentially as good as a pilot without a plain or a firefighter without his truck and the tools to put out the blaze. What good is a mailman that doesn't deliver mail? What good is a cheff who cooks nothing at all? What good is a gas station with no gasoline?And how, on earth, can you possibly expect any of these services to be free? Once upon a time, trading, and trading led to wars and wars led to senseless destruction and loss of property and many other chaotic things beside. So no, it didn't really work any more than our system does now I suppose, but that still doesn't mean that a hard working musician, audio producer, sound designer, narrator, editor or any other such talented person in their field should go without some sort of compensation for their efforts.To have something described to me by a sighted person has been a rarity in and of itself, and many who have tried if have lost their patience with me because I want more detail and they don't feel they have the time or the words or the strength required to put forth the effort... I don't know. I do know that it can't be easy, thus I equate AD to any other art that exists. So now, for me, it's not a question of my personal preference, but a few different matters ranging on who's reading the content, who's writing the content, how much they get paid for their parts in producing the content, how the content is distributed and why it is not made available to other markets... I mean, can you believe I went to a burger king once not too long ago, asked if they had braille menus available and was told that they weren't needed so they didn't have them? That sounds like outright discrimination, until you consider that I was probably the only blind person for about 30 miles around who would even have requested such a thing and up until that point that particular BK had never been asked... Why on earth would they have it!So maybe your country isn't aware of you; that's hardly the movie industry's fault, nor can you blame those producing AD content. You can keep fighting against audiogames net because your country doesn't get the ball rolling and you feel you have the right to turn this platform into your convenient hub for technically illegal activity, and the mods will shut you down; it's just that plain and simple. Change takes place when one person is willing to effect it, one person at a time. I heard it said that good things come with good time, and great things come all at once. If you really want to get this done, do it right! Stop hiding behind closed doors and start advocating for yourself through and by all means necessary, not just those that seem convenient to you. Otherwise, you're not showing anyone how important the issue actually is, simply that you're willing to do anything including the worst just to get your way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498655/#p498655 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a website with audio described movies.
Re: a website with audio described movies. I find it quite interesting how people are literally blaming the forum for, um, trying to remain legal.Griphindor wrote:Audio description is not exactly illegal, as much as certain mods would like to have you believe that to be so, but considering how hard AD is to get hold of legally if you happen to be outside the USA and almost non existent in many countries, *certain sites* help people get them when and if they need them.If you are so passionate about this and swear up and down that it's legal, then the time you spent railing against this on here could have been spent contacting some of these site owners and asking where the legal document/copyright exception/proof of distribution rights can be found. Transparency is everything, folks. Right now, there isn't any on either sie of the coin. Trust me on this one, I am facing this exact problem with a homegrown audio description track of my own creation that I am weary of distributing on a large scale because of the grayarea surrounding what is/isn't fair use. It's a complicated legal matter to which the best solution was to not condone on the forum, so we really ought to respect that. Remember. We have mainstream game devs on this forum. The forum does not want to give the impression that it is going to cherry-pick what elicit content it condones, and rather to just condemn all of it like damn near any other forum would. We have game studios starting to make trailers with audio description. I am quite sure that the voiceover person/description provider would have to be alright with free distribution were it commercial material. Remember, good narrations don't come from the sky, and the person you are hearing is either running their own business or going through one that also needs money as well. When you watch a described movie through a streaming service, or buy one, at least I should hope that the voiceover is getting fair royalties for their hard work. As for audio description in different countries: Again, if vpn's are legal in your place of residence, then have on. Netflix here in the U.S. and surrounding countries have a wealth of described content, and legal access to most vpn's will allow you to vpn to the states or any other country. That is, as long as you are legally paying for your subscription to Netflix in your region. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/498650/#p498650 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
