Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels I've never read the book or watched the movie, and I don't plan to do either, unless I am in the mood to be filled with incandescent rage. Being involved in the kink/BDSM subcultures to any degree generally leads to that. I have no idea how 50 shades didn't spark some sort of anti-kink anti-sex moral panic among the conservatives, to be honest. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560729/#p560729 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels I do know what's 50 shades of gray is. Haven't red the book, but, umm, have listen to a bit of the movie on Jeff's catalog lol!Can't imagine what would be the visuals on the screen, it will definitely qualify as a porn movie if audio description is anything to go by. That just cements the fact that sex sells in all of the cultures, even the local movies have that element. All I want is a good story, some nice characters, twists and turns, etc etc. Absence of sex or romance will just make it comfortable to listen to or watch it with family around. Guess until then I am stuck with Home alone. Lol! I mean the movie Home Alone. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560616/#p560616 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels @14I loved the first and second Wayfarer. I couldn't get into the third, but that's probably just me. They deserved the awards though.In general I'm speaking from a U.S.-centric perspective. I think you'll find that most of the romance stuff is also written from that perspective. If you're somewhere else, then you may not develop those desires in the same way an American would. America and to some extent the UK are well down the road of sex being seen as an end in itself, and proceeding in that direction rapidly. It's not at all shallow, though trying to describe it is, because it sounds like I'm saying that we're some sort of hedonistic orgy. But, just, acknowledging that it's a thing people want and it's okay to try to get it, if that makes sense.I am going to assume that you know what 50 shades of gray is. When those movies came out, tons and tons of U.S. people went and saw them. It wasn't stigmatized, and my otherwise conservative father admitted to going to see it. As far as I know, most of the sexual parts were just implied, but "Yeah, I saw 50 shades last weekend. It was fill-in-the-blank" was a pretty common thing to hear people talking about for a month or two, especially random college students at my college.You're going to have some difficulty ever talking about English-language romance novels without these overtones, because that's the background most of those authors are writing from, and most of the readers are reading from, and most of the reviewers are reviewing from, etc. I have the sudden sneaking position that wherever you are isn't at all like this, and whatever you saw is written for people wherever you are, without the advantage of having been young, on the internet, and with a lot of exposure to other cultures. That's usually a recipe for putting the most terrible spin on it that whoever is responsible for the article can. But maybe I'm wrong. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560510/#p560510 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels The only time sex in novels really makes me uncomfortable is if I'm reading either graphic audio, or just any audiobook really. If I'm listening to TTS, it's a lot easier to focus on the actual plot of a book. I don't know why, but nerrators always make that far more difficult for me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560508/#p560508 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels @10:JQ novels are just Julia Quin novels. It's only her latest book, "First Comes Scandle" that got me interested in her books. May be it's because I could identify some of my own qualities with that of the charactors from the book. The thing is, she has expanded this Bridgitan series so much that I started feeling curious about what happened to other charactors and ended up reading a bunch of her novels. Not all of the books are good in my opinion. It's like reading "A song Of Ice And Fire". You read a bit, and start wondering what happens next. Or in my case, what happened before as I just randumly stumbled accross this First Comes Scandal and didn't know that there are books before this book.I'll look up on the Becky Chambers wayfarer trilogy,.@11:I do agreee that even books which aren't romance novels do have sex and stuff in them. And it would be realy piss me off if story or charactor development is hampered due to sex. I don't mind if the writer skips the sex part, it's the other aspects of the novel which make it worth reading.Umm, feel a bit weird talking about my sex drive on the forum, but any way, not sure what do you mean by development of sex drive. I do feel attracted towards some girls, but I don't feel like putting my energy and efferts in to a relationship at this point of life, specially when studies and searching for a job are taking up so much of my time and energy. Also, the relationship part is a bit tough in this culture. And casual sex is a big no. I wouldn't be surprised if 80 to 90% of my friends, and that does inclued sighted friends, don't have a relationship or are vergins. Regardless of what pop culture portrays and what media shows,the reality is that people are very conservative in this matter. So I might be reading novels from writers who are from all over the world, but very less of it applies in my culture. Not that romance is uncommon, but it's in some ways different. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560499/#p560499 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels @10:JQ novels are just Julia Quin novels. It's only her latest book, "First Comes Scandle" that got me interested in her books. May be it's because I could identify some of my own qualities with that of the charactors from the book. The thing is, she has expanded this Bridgitan series so much that I started feeling curious about what happened to other charactors and ended up reading a bunch of her novels. Not all of the books are good in my opinion. It's like reading "A song Of Ice And Fire". You read a bit, and start wondering what happens next. Or in my case, what happened before as I just randumly stumbled accross this First Comes Scandal and didn't know that there are books before this book.I'll look up on the Becky Chambers wayfarer trilogy,.@11:I do agreee that even books which aren't romance novels do have sex and stuff in them. And it would be realy piss me off if story or charactor development is hampered due to sex. I don't mind if the writer skips the sex part, it's the other aspects of the novel which make it worth reading.Umm, feel a bit weird talking about my sex drive on the forum, but any way, not sure what do you mean by development of sex drive. I do feel attracted towards some girls, but I don't feel like putting my energy and efferts in to a relationship at this point of life, specially when studies and searching for a job are taking up so much of my time and energy. Also, the relationship part is a bit tough in this culture. And casual sex is a big no. I wouldn't be surprised if 80 to 90% of my friends, and that does inclued sighted friends, don't have a relationship or are vergins. Regardless of what pop culture portrays and what media shows,the reality is that people are very conservative in this matter. So I might be reading novels from writers who are from all over the world, but very less of it applies in my culture. Not that romance is uncommon, but it's in some ways different. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560498/#p560498 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels @12Sex scenes are already in mainstream literature. Even The Dresden Files goes so far as to have one. Pick up any urban fantasy novel in the last 10 years. It'll become more pronounced, but it's already done.The one romance/relationship author I like is T.J. Klune. He does everything from genuinely dark paranormal with basically no sex to over the top fantasy lowbrow comedy to contemporary. Kind of a catch-all author, who gets shelved with romance because they don't fit anywhere else and he always builds the novel around a relationship. He's also gay, and it shows. Frankly I recommend Wolfsong even to straight non-romance readers because it was good enough to ruin werewolves in anything else forever and also manages to handle mental disabilities and a lot of other stuff well, kind of a blend of all the genres vaguely adjacent to urban fantasy.But the thing that he became known for was his first series, Bear, Otter, and the Kid, which I can honestly say was a formative experience. Because the thing is, gay problems aren't like me and my husband fought. That's there, sure. We certainly have normal relationships and normal relationship problems. But there's a whole other set of stuff that comes with being gay that's just not really a thing for straight people. His characters in that series have to worry about child custody issues and whether mom is going to come back and make their lives hell because she couldn't deal with it, and having to out themselves to people, and a whole bunch of stuff like that. You'll read it, and you'll be like wow these problems are over the top. It's not the best thing he's written, or the best thing out there. Especially early on, he leans on specific plot devices kind of hard. And, I think to some straight readers it probably comes across as not realistic. But I have multiple friends with stories like it to one degree or another, including one friend who sort of became a safe house in Florida back in the 2008 housing crisis for a bunch of people who couldn't go home to their families because of it. Ended up with like 15 people living with him at some point, because their options were him, homelessness, or going back to their families who couldn't deal with it--the sort of people who'd try to beat the gay out if they were kids, which you could legally do until a couple years ago via conversion therapy. I got lucky. I didn't work it out until I was an adult, and I'm not so bad off that I couldn't go home, but I don't talk much with two family members because of it. And somehow I avoided internalizing the "gay people are sinners against god" attitude you get in places like Florida and from people like my mother. Most of my gay friends had much, much worse issues.But, look at the ones by straight authors. They're the stereotypes like you're talking about, but swap out the woman for a man. At least for me, that kills suspension of disbelief. You get two muscled bikers who are somehow completely comfortable in their sexuality, one of them is the "woman" during sex with feminine personality characteristics who wants to be the bottom, all their friends are supportive and knew they were gay all along and someone will say "about time you told us", and maybe there's one token character who has a problem with it but they'll usually come around by the end because all that matters is love and happiness. It's just completely different. I'm sure there's someone gay out there who loves them. I'm sure there's someone writing them without the experience of having been gay who gets it right. They're not even particularly poorly written with respect to prose or any of that. But it just completely misses the point. The books that meet the stereotypes you're talking about are really far from actual straight relationships. But when you take that sort of book and make the characters gay, it's twice as far from gay relationships as it would have been from the straight equivalent. Gay sex was illegal in parts of the U.S. as late as 2003, people are still fighting hard with a chance of winning to deny gay couples the right to adopt, and gay people pretty universally had to worry about hate crimes as late as the 90s and still do in some parts of the U.S. Go to the right countries and gay relationships are still a capital crime. Chosen families as opposed to biological families are still super common, and 15 years or so ago that was the norm. Older people are still traumatized by having all their friends die from HIV.If it's not clear, this bothers me. It's fine that people write such things and that people read such things, but I don't like that no one actually gets the difference between what M/M romance is--namely by and for straight people--and what the experience of actual gay people is. I promise you, most gay people have much worse stories than the worst blindness anecdotes you can
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels @Camlorn, this is why my lady tends to distinguish between "romance", and "relationship", novels, since the latter also counts books about groups of friends, families etc, and whilst those might involve people falling in love and; at least in the more recently published efforts, descriptions of sex scenes, there is more to them than that, albeit my lady does tend to get irritated if one note, IE the sex, gets in the way of everything else. In that respect, relationship fiction is no different to other forms of fiction, and I suspect your right that acceptance of sex scenes, and indeed different fetishes as part of a relationship might well make it into mainstream fiction, albeit I totally agree that fifty shades is a very bad example, being obviously bdsm written by someone who has absolutely no experience of real bdsm, BTw, check out Domenic Noble's youtube channel found here, where he discusses book to film adaptations and has some amusingly detailed and quite entertainingly vitriolic discussions of the fifty shades trilogy.I can't speak on the reality or idealism of the gay angle being very straight myself, however one thing I do find amusing when considering at least standard romantic cliches, is if I described the way my lady and I got together, it really would! tick all of the boxes of a bad romance novel. Sensitive, damaged (and even I might say slightly musclebound), intellectual runs into tiny divorcee who has just come out of a bad relationship, (just for a twist, lady is even nine years older than man). Everything from the belief we could be friends, but attraction proving too strong, , to the sudden love triangle featuring possessive other guy, to the hopeless admitions of feelings whilst believing everything was impossible, to dramatic meetings at railway stations, we even had comically and conveniently timed late trains and aeroplanes to increase the tension before meeting . Of course, I'll be the first to admit that meeting my lady was the single luckiest thing that ever happened to me and is probably the best evidence I've ever seen for the existence of a personal deity, however, I do find myself wondering how many cliches in terms of relationships are cliches, and how many are just looking at people who actually have! been amazingly lucky, since I know for a fact my lady and I aren't the only happily married couple out there, and whereas finding out your a wizard, or having to save the world from evil are probably pretty rare occurrences in real life, you can't say that for relationships, albeit manifestly there are a hole bunch of really shitty ones out there too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560449/#p560449 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels @9Thing is that when you say romance novels, unless you specify otherwise, everyone is going to hear "book with plot that leads to steamy sex scene". Sure, the other stuff exists. But you'll notice that many of these books do still go out of their way to describe the sex scene, because while you might be buying them for the heartwarming romance, the sex scenes are equally important to many of the readers of that genre. If you continue reading romance, I promise you will shortly pick up a good-looking book that has sex every 10 pages. Ironically such books can also have really good plot and character development, because at the end of the day wanting and having sex is part of the human condition, and authors of this sort of stuff get the short end of the public opinion stick. But so did sci-fi and fantasy, honestly, and the way the world is going that'll probably change over the next 10 years in the same way it did for the aforementioned. Suffice it to say the 50 shades novels and movies wouldn't have happened 10 years ago, at least not how they did. 50 shades is a complete travesty that taught large chunks of the world that BDSM is rapey and about violating consent (which it isn't), but it at least started a lot of valuable discussions by showing the world that your next door neighbor also reads this stuff.I don't read romance often; I have to be in the right mood. But I read it for both reasons. Unfortunately I'm gay so there's not that many authors that aren't women writing for other women, in such a fashion as to make all the men muscle-bound platonic straight ideals that happen to fall in love, which is...not at all how being gay is, to be honest. The actual gay man market is too small to really be viable for publishers and, as a result, there's only one author I even really like.It sounds like you haven't developed a sex drive yet, but that'll most likely happen eventually. At some point you'll likely want a relationship, casual sex, whatever--and then romance becomes wish fulfillment, to some degree. Which is also perfectly fine. it's also perfectly fine to read porn, at least in my book; but I'm sort of ahead of the social curve on that, so you might need to wait another 5 or 10 years before the rest of the world finishes agreeing with me.If you're looking for non-romance book recommendations, there's few people on here who are more well-read than I am in the science fiction and fantasy arenas. If you want very speculative speculative fiction, I'm probably the person to give you some. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560423/#p560423 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels @Mdw, not sure exactly what genre "JQ" stands for but, as I said, "romance", or relationship novels are a pretty wide sub group. I don't personally mind! people reading the intense erotica or other one note stuff, however my problem with that from a purely artistic perspective is exactly the same as my problem with generic action/power fantasy, paint by numbers schlocky slasher horror, hammy historicals, or any other one note type of fiction, namely that it is! one note, and thus both predictable, and unengaging to anyone who is interested in anything besides that one note, EG 3 3 dimensional characters rather than cliches, unpredictable plots, well written descriptions and complex emotions not tied to the one note in question, indeed all of the other stuff that makes a good book accept for erotic sex scenes, gory monster murder, extreme explosions or whatever that one note is; indeed I find myself that if a book has" the other writing building blocks placed properly it's one note will come off all the better, EG, an erotic sex scene is much more pleasant when you know and care about the characters in question, and a battle, or monster attack means much more if there is a possibility of losing characters you like along the way.I will admit I personally don't tend to read stuff that isn't speculative fiction myself, but that isn't because I believe only speculative fiction, much less only one sort of speculative fiction, is worth reading.As to why academic reading is harder, well welcome to the wonderful world of academia . Firstly, anything is harder once someone is telling you to do it, or you have to do it for another reason than your own choice, secondly, most academic none fiction is simply not as interesting as fiction, not having plot, characters and all the other good stuff I alluded to. Oh, and if your looking for stuff to read Here are my book reviews., most are speculative fiction of one sort or another, though hopefully my comments and/or marks should give you ideas for recommendations. Indeed, if you want something generally cheerful and upbeat, yet at the same time well written, compelling and very readable, try Becky Chambers wayfarer trilogy, they're very pure science fiction, but hilarious, good fun, with great characters and an over all light hearted tone, for all her most recent novella slightly disappointed me.Oh and yes, my wife and I read together regularly, we just finished Duma Key by Stephen King.Often we read sf, fantasy or horror. Sometimes one of us will recommend a book or story the other hasn't read, sometimes we'll revisit an old favourite (wee reread both the hunger games trilogy, all the Harry Potter books and quite a bit of Brandon sanderson, Tad Williams and Robin Hobb together).Sometimes my lady will recommend books or short stories in genres I don't usually read myself, such as crime or relationships, as with the silent partner or Pat Conroy's prince of tides, and usually (because my lady is a person of intelligence with good taste), they're books I get something out of.Sometimes we'll try something new together, as with Becky chambers. Just call it one of the advantages of being married to a fellow book fanatic . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560407/#p560407 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels @Mdw, not sure exactly what genre "JQ" stands for but, as I said, "romance", or relationship novels are a pretty wide sub group. I don't personally mind! people reading the intense erotica or other one note stuff, however my problem with that from a purely artistic perspective is exactly the same as my problem with generic action/power fantasy, paint by numbers schlocky slasher horror, hammy historicals, or any other one note type of fiction, namely that it is! one note, and thus both predictable, and unengaging to anyone who is interested in anything besides that one note, EG 3 3 dimensional characters rather than cliches, unpredictable plots, well written descriptions and complex emotions not tied to the one note in question, indeed all of the other stuff that makes a good book accept for erotic sex scenes, gory monster murder, extreme explosions or whatever that one note is; indeed I find myself that if a book has" the other writing building blocks placed properly it's one note will come off all the better, EG, an erotic sex scene is much more pleasant when you know and care about the characters in question, and a battle, or monster attack means much more if there is a possibility of losing characters you like along the way.I will admit I personally don't tend to read stuff that isn't speculative fiction myself, but that isn't because I believe only speculative fiction, much less only one sort of speculative fiction, is worth reading.As to why academic reading is harder, well welcome to the wonderful world of academia . Firstly, anything is harder once someone is telling you to do it, or you have to do it for another reason than your own choice, secondly, most academic none fiction is simply not as interesting as fiction, not having plot, characters and all the other good stuff I alluded to. Oh, and if your looking for stuff to read Here are my book reviews., most are speculative fiction of one sort or another, though hopefully my comments and/or marks should give you ideas for recommendations. Indeed, if you want something generally cheerful and upbeat, yet at the same time well written, compelling and very readable, try Becky Chambers wayfarer trilogy, they're very pure science fiction, but hilarious, good fun, with great characters and an over all light hearted tone, for all her most recent novella slightly disappointed me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560407/#p560407 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels @8: Well,After that question, I did go in to talking about my reading habits and my psa did say that if you people have any suggestion, I'll be happy to listen to them.So, it was just not about reading romance novels, it was also about reading novels in general.For example, @6 talked about lots of different interesting novels in his posts.@Dark, glad to hear that you and your partner read together and enjoy it.@5: I agree that reading won't define who you are or who you will be. I find it a bit uncomfortable to compare porn and romance novels, but I get your point. I believe that restricting oneself to only 1 kind of genre is a bit concerning, but at the end, it's the reader's choice. Because of my academic background, I am somewhat forced to read lots of nonfiction books which I wouldn't read otherwise, and sometimes, I have enjoyed some of these nonfiction type theoretical books simply because I knew that the given knowledge is going to help me in doing something in future. Where I struggle to read is when the book in question is not part of my field of academics or I fail to understand what will be the benefit/use out of reading it.What stresses me out is that the reading nonfiction takes so much more attention and alertness on my part, and reading fiction goes like a bullet train without any efforts. It's true that I am not taking any notes or rewinding a fiction book, but at the end, the story is clear in my head as equally as anyone else might have red it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560368/#p560368 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels @8: Well,After that question, I did go in to talking about my reading habits and my psa did say that if you people have any suggestion, I'll be happy to listen to them.So, it was just not about reading romance novels, it was also about reading novels in general. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560368/#p560368 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels well not being hostile but i was intrigued by the title of the thread until i read the first few lines. maybe you should have pointed out that it was more about romance than nobaels in general? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560354/#p560354 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels Oh yes,While reading these novels, I definitely felt that it's not so much about the discription of sex seens, but the relations being developed, the character development, the interesting twists and turns in the stories, these things kept me glued to JQ novels. If it was only about sex and erotic things, I don't know why I would read it.I am a young person, certainly don't need to worry about most of the stuff these articles and blogs talked about, not even looking for a relationship yet, and I guess I am yet to develop proper reading skills. The Corona pandemic, the sad things going around, and being frustrated at being trapped at home caused me to look for stories with happy endings, and JQ novels with a bit of comedy and guaranteed happy endings caught my attention. Plus I am a person who does take shortcuts in finding out new books to read, and new york best sellers lists is one of the places where I look for books when I don't know what to read.Thank you, URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560343/#p560343 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels Okay, first question, what is a romance novel exactly and why is it that you characterise one genre according to a specific subset of that genre, and assume that everyone who reads that genre are automatically reading the worst of that genre, that's like assuming all science fiction is nothing but big explosions and B movie alien invasions, or all fantasy is leather barbarian power fantasy. Pammela Bell, one of the best fantasy writers you've never heard of, is listed as a romance writer, yet I'd rank her silver city trilogy up there with Robin Hobb. My lady reads the odd romance novel, albeit she also reads a lot of science fiction, fantasy and occasional crime novels. Some of the romance she reads turn out to be fairly generic, with irritatingly trite situations, cliches and occasionally overly lurid sex descriptions, though obviously as a fairly literate person she tries to avoid those that sound like the worst examples , on the other hand some of the sf I've read (and indeed she's read), has been generic action fests with an annoying egotystical hero (if you want to see proof, go check out the reviews I wrote on fantasybookreview.co.uk for Peers Brown's Red rising trilogy, some of the most appalling drek I've ever had the misfortune to read). Some fiction in the "romance" genre, are simply what my lady refers to as "relationship novels", that is books about people's lives. Yes they involve falling in love, but, well that's a part of life, and a pretty nice one, however they also involve vivid characters, well written descriptions, good dialogue, intense plots and all of the other stuff that makes up a good book, despite being generally called "romance," Case in point, one book I read with her was the silent partner by Judith Greber. This is in one sense a "romance" novel, it features a married couple who've lost the spark over the years, a husband who is considering an extra marital affair (not helped by the fairly horrible corporate culture he's in), a lady who's had to put her own career and dreams on hold since they've moved to a new town for her husbands' job, and all in all a pretty shitty situation with some normal, if likeable people. Yes, it's a "romance", novel, in that the couple do find they have a loving relationship, and there are descriptions of their lovemaking, however it's everything else that makes that have a point. I don't myself read romance or relationship novels, I generally find myself that I usually like some speculative elements in the plot, something different from the everyday, from an entirely new sf or fantasy world to explore, to some weird horror or apocalypse, (really when it comes to speculative fiction, my taste is very broad). however, those occasions when my lady has asked me to read something modern with her, even if a relationship, or indeed a romance like the silent partner, it's been worth my time. So, is there a lot of badly written, basically one note, borderline porno romance out there? Yes there is. Are there people who read it? Yes there are. Is it however fair to condemn a huge genre with various different examples, and one which touches upon so many other genres, simply by the worst examples of that genre?After all, consider how many of the books you like have their romantic elements, and how those romantic elements contribute to and play a part in the story. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560240/#p560240 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels Okay, first question, what is a romance novel exactly and why is it that you characterise one genre according to a specific subset of that genre, and assume that everyone who reads that genre are automatically reading the worst of that genre, that's like assuming all science fiction is nothing but big explosions and B movie alien invasions, or all fantasy is leather barbarian power fantasy. Pammela Bell, one of the best fantasy writers you've never heard of, is listed as a romance writer, yet I'd rank her silver city trilogy up there with Robin Hobb. My lady reads the odd romance novel, albeit she also reads a lot of science fiction, fantasy and occasional crime novels. Some of the romance she reads turn out to be fairly generic, with irritatingly trite situations, cliches and occasionally overly lurid sex descriptions, though obviously as a fairly literate person she tries to avoid those that sound like the worst examples , on the other hand some of the sf I've read (and indeed she's read), has been generic action fests with an annoying egotystical hero (if you want to see proof, go check out the reviews I wrote on fantasybookreview.co.uk for Peers Brown's Red rising trilogy, some of the most appalling drek I've ever had the misfortune to read). Some fiction in the "romance" genre, are simply what my lady refers to as "relationship novels", that is books about people's lives. Yes they involve falling in love, but, well that's a part of life, and a pretty nice one, however they also involve vivid characters, well written descriptions, good dialogue, intense plots and all of the other stuff that makes up a good book, despite being generally called "romance," Case in point, one book I read with her was the silent partner by Judith Greber. This is in one sense a "romance" novel, it features a married couple who've lost the spark over the years, a husband who is considering an extra marital affair (not helped by the fairly horrible corporate culture he's in), a lady who's had to put her own career and dreams on hold since they've moved to a new town for her husbands' job, and all in all a pretty shitty situation with some normal, if likeable people. Yes, it's a "romance", novel, in that the couple do find they have a loving relationship, and there are descriptions of their lovemaking, however it's everything else that makes that have a point. I don't myself read romance or relationship novels, I generally find myself that I usually like some speculative elements in the plot, something different from the everyday, from an entirely new sf or fantasy world to explore, to some weird horror or apocalypse, (really when it comes to speculative fiction, my taste is very broad). however, those occasions when my lady has asked me to read something modern with her, even if a relationship, or indeed a romance like the silent partner, it's been worth my time. So, is there a lot of porno one note romance out there? Yes there is. Are there people who read it? Yes there are. Is it however fair to condemn a huge genre with various different examples, and one which touches upon so many other genres, with one note? probably not. After all, consider how many of the books you like have their romantic elements, and how those romantic elements contribute to and play a part in the story. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560240/#p560240 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels Those sorts of things aren't true. What's actually true is that lots and lots and lots of people read this stuff and don't admit to it because admitting to reading "romance"/porn is considered taboo and weird and something you should be ashamed about because everyone says that, then reporters go and find some adulterer or something somewhere and go wow they read romance novels, let's point that out because it'll give someone more things to talk about on my sensational article.But let's assume it's true, that for some reason romance novel readers *are* actually all the things you claim. Novels do not change the reader. If it's actually the case that those things are true and that's why those people read romance novels, they're going to be the same sort of person if romance novels didn't exist. You won't change for having read them, that's not how reading works unless that's what you're trying for. These sorts of opinions are harmful in the first place, but all you'll do by sharing them is alienate all your friends for no reason.Also, in the 2000s and early 2010s it was videogames produce murders, in the 1990s it was dungeons and dragons summons satanic forces, I'd go back further but further is before I was born. I'm sure tomorrow it'll be something equally stupid.As someone who went through this phase as well,listen to critical thinking skills, not random sensational articles from the internet. I remember what it was like to read my first romance novels, to in general find all the sorts of sexual stuff, and because I'm from a very typical Florida background I was raised to believe that there was something wrong with it all and also something wrong with me for enjoying it to some extent. If you can just skip to the end of that process and avoid all the parts in the middle where you feel weird, I encourage you to do so. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560224/#p560224 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels If you get enjoyment out of romance novels, that's your business. As one of the previous posts said, all fictional content is pretty much escapism. As for risk of adultery, I have trouble seeing how a romance novel could induce something like this. Maybe it would be a catalyst if you have an unfulfilling relationship, but even if you don't read romance novels your relationship will still be unfulfilling and that's the root of the problem, not the romance novel. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560218/#p560218 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels Personally, I would definitely not try to convince friends to not read a certain genre. Let them read what they want to read. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560205/#p560205 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: questions for people who read novels
Re: questions for people who read novels I by my own decisions, do not read, or like the romance novels.With that said, I really don't think that just because you're reading romance novels, there is something wrong in your life, including all the things which you described in your post.I would like to single the escapism out here, since games, novels, anime, etc. Are all one form of escapism where you stop caring about the real life, and be with the characters.Even board games are personally for me a escape, specially chess, playing around moving pieces, testing out various openings and defenses, I can lose hours on it.If reading romance novels have such connotations, then I wouldn't be surprised if people thought the same things about me if I revealed that I like books with magic in among them (He has his head in the clouds!) or sci-fi.So, in short, if you do like romance novels, go ahead and read them. Nothing is wrong with that, even though I'm sure my teenage self would disagree. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560204/#p560204 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
questions for people who read novels
questions for people who read novels Before this turns hostile, I want to clarify that I don't know much about reading romance novels. I am a Mystery, suspense and thriller reader. However, recently I accidentally stumbled accross Julia Quin's novels, and enjoyed reading few of them. I talked with my sighted and blind friends about these novels, but that was through chats. Later, I red few online articles about the author and some reviews. What raised my curiosity is that there seems to be some things going around the people who read romance novels.Escapism, unsatisfaction from their own lifes, risk of adultery, disconnect from real life, and many more things these articles talked about which are associated with reading romance novels. What I wanted to know, is that are these things true, should i kick out this genre from my reading lists, should I offer advice against reading these books to those friends who read these novels. I try not to judge people based on what they read, but lot of things from these articles sounds plausible.I am pretty much an average reader who struggles with nonfiction, loves novels by Sir Arthur Conan Doil, Agatha Christie, Sidney Sheldon, Dan Brown, Paulo Coelho etc. I am planning to begin Stephen King soon. The only nonfiction i easily breezed through was a book by Jared Diamond. I wouldn't be surprised if anyone figured out which 1 that was.P.s. If you have any interesting novel suggestions for me, do let me know. Also, very sorry if I offended any romance novels readers. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560195/#p560195 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
