Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases @14 my point was things like MySQL which was asked by others.regarding SQLite, it's small and fast, and it even lets you do query on memory which makes it reliable for everything, even for games and save files.I've used it for some of my web projects (I'm more comfortable with SQLite than other database engines), as it can be easily used in every programming language namely python, and it has support for each ORM thing (my intent is SQLAlchemy, but others support it as well).C++ has ORM engine for that as well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/528811/#p528811 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases One of my project ideas is to do SoundRTS but bigger and persistent, or Wayfar but audio and not too slow to be playable, and how I'd solve most of it is via sqlite-backed logs for map modification so that clients can easily grab only what changed from the last time they logged on. It is relatively simple (emphasis relatively) to flatten the tail of the log so that you can always just play from the most recent message you haven't seen: if the log just journals sets without semantics, you can just drop any set older than a certain time window if a set in the time window exists, and create a fake version at the beginning of the time window if it doesn't. I wouldn't suggest trying to do that for all game entities, but for frequently updating tilemaps of a not too ambitious size it would be quite doable, and there are a number of relatively simple (emphasis relatively, again) schemes that let this scale up to quite gigantic maps. But that said, you only get the benefit if your tiles are complicated and with lots of state since otherwise it's not a big deal to download even as much as a megabyte at game startup.SQL is actually pretty easy in anything dynamically typed, and the one exception to the no ORM for games rule might be the Django ORM which you can actually use without the rest of Django, since if I recall correctly it doesn't insert weird overhead magic on the objects. But sadly I am almost certain that you could never, ever, ever get it playing nice with py2exe or similar. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/528737/#p528737 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases One of my project ideas is to do SoundRTS but bigger and persistent, or Wayfar but audio and not too slow to be playable, and how I'd solve most of it is via sqlite-backed logs for map modification so that clients can easily grab only what changed from the last time they logged on. It is relatively simple (emphasis relatively) to flatten the tail of the log so that you can always just play from the most recent message you haven't seen: if the log just journals sets without semantics, you can just drop any set older than a certain time window if a set in the time window exists, and create a fake version at the beginning of the time window if it doesn't. I wouldn't suggest trying to do that for all game entities, but for frequently updating tilemaps of a not too ambitious size it would be quite doable, and there are a number of relatively simple (emphasis relatively, again) schemes that let this scale up to quite gigantic maps. But that said, you only get the benefit if your tiles are complicated and with lots of state since otherwise it's not a big deal to download even as much as a megabyte at game startup.SQL is actually pretty easy in anything dynamically typed, and the one exception to the no ORM rule might be the Django ORM which you can actually use without the rest of Django, since if I recall correctly it doesn't insert weird overhead magic on the objects. But sadly I am almost certain that you could never, ever, ever get it playing nice with py2exe or similar. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/528737/#p528737 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
2020-05-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases Absolutely, transactions and error handling are a huge bonus, and is one of many reasons why I keep coming back to SqLite. I agree that rolling out a basic solution is not a hard task, and there's some added complexity when it comes to managing the SQL schema if you have a complex game state, but I'm still seriously considering it. I like the idea of coming up with queries to find the root of a bug via a save file during beta, for instance, which would take me significantly longer to do in code. I can also imagine a simple schema for storing complete input history, so you can record gameplay etc. Naturally you can accomplish the same things in other ways, but SqLite provides a very nice foundation.Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/528724/#p528724 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases Even if you just store raw json in Sqlite, it's still a win because they literally test "the filesystem got unplugged while something was writing the database".Also transactions let you crash in the middle of writing the save file and it's like you never wrote the save file, and for complex level data you just can't beat having an sqlite shell to explore the brokenness.I'm toying with the idea of writing a Python library for game serialization, because surprisingly nothing that does everything I'd want exists, and one of the things it'd support is sqlite.For C++ serialization Sqlite isn't going to help you much though. Boost.serialization is an eldrich abomination, but I've seen quite a few libraries that are much more stripped down for implementing the visitor pattern and especially with C++11 and later that's not so bad. If I were going to have to use C++ (and I wouldn't, but if I had to) I'd probably use x-macros and some function overloading and could roll a basic layer for this in a few hours if push came to shove. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/528719/#p528719 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
2020-05-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases I agree with @14. SqLite is great for a lot of things. I have used it many times over the years for various projects, though never for a game - at least not yet. I'm in half a mind to try it for serialization in my next project, as I never really became friends with boost.serialization and other similar libraries.I can recommend the following article from the SqLite website, called SqLite as an application file format:https://www.sqlite.org/appfileformat.htmlThere are probably better solutions for games in particular, but I have a fondness for SqLite which might push me over the edge.Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/528708/#p528708 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases @13I thought I covered the web apps/anything-but-games point in 12, but maybe that wasn't clear enough.Also Sqlite is an amazingly convenient database format for storing almost anything which doesn't have the overhead of the network and can be put on a thumbdrive etc. I only object to ORMs in the case where you're trying to do a bunch of computation on the retrieved data, since often simple mything.x = 5 code turns into a bunch of implicit I/O and things if mything came from the ORM. If you're turning mything into json, whatever, but if mything is some sort of game object doing a physics simulation that's a different story. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/528639/#p528639 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases @12, for games I think one should not use a complex database engine like MySQL or SQLServer as they are server based and they have their own programs!.but for web development, an ORM helps maintaining the code, while avoiding bugs like SQL injection and so on.SQLAlchemy is tested for these kind of bugs, and I've used it in flask without any problem.in web development, when SQL is used, it does the operation on tables while sending the page to users (don't let users perform commands on your databbase either by typing it or anything else. when storing input from users on the database, put them inside quotes and send them to the database).for games, I don't recommend database engines at all (multiplayer games are different,, as the data can be saved and retrieved back when the user logs in and sent back to users or held on memory for further operations (as doing operation on databases consumes processing power and if your stuff that you are sending to server effect the database directly, you might get SQL injection bug and your server application can be accessed by others or more, your tables can be dropped). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/528636/#p528636 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases @12, for games I think one should not use a complex database engine like MySQL or SQLServer as they are server based and they have their own programs!.but for web development, an ORM helps maintaining the code, while avoiding bugs like SQL injection and so on.SQLAlchemy is tested for these kind of bugs, and I've used it in flask without any problem.in web development, when SQL is used, it does the operation on tables while sending the page to users (don't let users perform commands on your databbase either by typing it or anything else. when storing tinput from users on the database, put them inside quotes and send them to the database).for games, I don't recommend database engines at all (multiplayer games are different,, as the data can be saved and retrieved back when the user logs in and sent back to users or held on memory for further operations (as doing operation on databases consumes processing power and if your stuff that you are sending to server effect the database directly, you might get SQL injection bug and your server application can be accessed by others or more, your tables can be dropped). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/528636/#p528636 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases The overhead of SQLAlchemy is significant, and I don't suggest trying to use it (or any other ORM) for a game, for what that's worth. If I recall SQLAlchemy replaces all your normal variables with property descriptors and makes accessing them over 10 times slower, but it's been a long time since I measured that and it's possible it improved or my benchmarking was bugged.For anything else, though, go for it. Python is fast enough for games, but 10 times slower than Python starts pushing the envelope when you're primarily doing things like physics simulations. People take the overhead of such libraries for I/O intensive applications like web apps, where making the database do all the computing for you is the right option, or where 99% of the time is waiting on something else to get done sending you data, as opposed to you working out the data yourself.You also wouldn't use a database itself for the game simulation, though using games makes a good illustrative example. The overhead of talking to it to run thousands to hundreds of thousands of queries a second that update one variable and don't do anything else interesting is amazingly terrible. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/528574/#p528574 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases For a more "gamie" example, let's pretend you have a load of maps. They all have players on them, and some have a boss NPC that rattles around killing stuff.Your "boss" wants to find players, but it isn't interested in wounded players, because that's just mean. You could use something like the following:boss_location_id = select id from players where location_id = boss_location_id and health > 50 order by (health and function to figure out distance).That would have the boss heading towards the player with the most health, while applying some function to detect distance.BTW, I don't actually know SQL all that well, so please don't copy and paste that example haha. SQL is pretty human-readable though, so it's usually pretty obvious what's going on.If you're writing Python, I would really recommend using https://www.sqlalchemy.org/]SQLAlchemy. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/528566/#p528566 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases we also have key-value databases (a simple example of it is redis).but the description and the example of databases were given before and I don't need to mention them again.but another example:say you have a blog, forum or whatever you want, and you want to make posts, register users etc.those have a structure (I'll give an example with user registration).each user can have username, password, email address,, first/last name, phone number,, etc associated to it which is stored on the database.now, when your user wants to login to your website, you retrieve the information from the database engine.you say get the user for me which it's username is x and it's password is y.then if it returns the user, you can successfully login your user to your website.whenever the user updates his profile, say for example, changes his password, you update the database. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/527429/#p527429 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
2020-05-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases A simple example of a database is audiogames.net, and the forum. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/527427/#p527427 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases Databases that literally just hold data are vanishingly rare. I believe even Moo provides some query functionality.Mostly you see databases of that sort from the 80s and 90s, from back when filesystems were the wild west. Moo is old enough that it had to cope with tape drives for instance. That's just generally not a concern anymore.Nowadays if you need to just shove some binary data somewhere you just use files. There's a couple modern exceptions to that, perhaps most notably IndexDB for browsers, but that's really just an API that doesn't say anything about how it's stored and is just to do with giving web pages access to the filesystem being a bad idea. But even something as stripped down as BoltDB and/or RocksDB provides querying by key prefix, not just storing data for you.What people care about with databases is "what questions can this database answer efficiently", not "can it store my data". The latter question is no longer interesting, as we no longer have things like tape drives that are really vastly different from traditional hard drives and for the most part don't have to be concerned about such inane things as "it is more efficient to read the file start to finish than to seek back and forth in it" and stuff like that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/527405/#p527405 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases It's probably also worth mentioning that the above definition of database doesn't necessarily apply to all kinds of databases, only the my SQL kind which is what most people assotiate them with. A generic database is, well, a database. It's a base that holds data. It's pretty self explanatory really. Another example of databases would be the way lambda moo stores its data. Of course none of this really has anything to do with your question because you were specifically asking about a web hosting company, but just figured I'd put that out there anyway. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/527396/#p527396 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases In that case, maybe read some Django tutorials. They'll teach you how to write web apps in Python with databses to do things like a blogging engine and stuff. Their official one is pretty good. it's not just databases though, but it'll show you how a lot of stuff fits together in general, and one of those pieces is a database. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/527390/#p527390 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases hii'm not asking to use, but rather asking to lirn, thanks for the ansers URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/527387/#p527387 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases Not one that's small. But @2 isn't putting it the best way. Databases are question answering engines that hold data. They have machinery to do things like "compute all the outstanding bills of all customers over the last 6 months, figure out who is late, order by the total amount that they owe, and multiply the interest" efficiently. Your program to do that is going to open a bunch of files and read a bunch of stuff and do a bunch of loops, but a database will do the same thing 10 times faster once you learn how to use it because it's got a bunch of extra stuff in it that would take you forever to code.Another way of putting it is that databases are like Excel times 10 for programmers. They can do everything Excel can, but on a terabyte of content as well, and if you use them right the answers will always be near instant even if you're dealing with a million customers.But if you have to ask what a database is, you're probably not yet at the point of needing one, and anything that I could give as a real world example is going to be 50 lines or so minimum and require a lot of other knowledge you probably don't have yet either. I wouldn't say they're not applicable to audiogames, but if you're using BGT you flat out can't interact with them anyway, and it's not really useful until you're doing something that's going to have an authentication system and/or be online where the abilities of a database can come into their own. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/527383/#p527383 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases hiis there in examble or anything to understand it from? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/527376/#p527376 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases Hi.databases are used when handling large amounts of data or structured data, say you have a ton of cds and later you want to view the title and publish year of each cd, you won't be looking through 1 files, instead you use sql r whatever db language of choice to sort through this data and output it to your programming language or web view of choice.You will start needing databases as soon as your projects start using some more data, but not for audiogames generally.Something I would use a database for would be a radio song request form so I cn see the requests on the site in an admin panel, a repository of different files, or customer handling for purchases, emails, etc. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/527373/#p527373 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases Hi.databases are used when handling large amounts of data or structured data, say you have a ton of cds and later you want to view the title and publish year of each cd, you won't be looking through 1 files, instead you use sql r whatever db language of choice to sort through this data and output it to your programming language web view of choice.You will start needing databases as soon as your projects start using some more data, but not for audiogames generally.Something I would use a database for would be a radio song request form so I cn see the requests on the site in an admin panel, a repository of different files, or customer handling for purchases, emails, etc. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/527373/#p527373 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: what are data bases
Re: what are data bases Hi.databases are used when handling large amounts of data or structured data, say you have a ton of cds and later you want to view the title and publish year of each cd, you won't be looking through 1 files, instead you use sql r whatever db language of choice to sort through this data and output it to your programming language web view of choice. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/527373/#p527373 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
what are data bases
what are data bases hiso freevar has sql databases and I dont really know what are they used forI thot, I searched in google but I got eavin more questionsso what are the diffrints bitween a database and uploading the files directly to the websiteand how could they be usefuland what are theyI may get some peaple laffing at me, and some peaple may say i'm stupid but in the end i'm sure i'm gunna get in anserthanks URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/527363/#p527363 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
