[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review in the works!
PhilNYC Wrote: My Dodson DA-218 DAC does the exact same thing. In fact, it buffers the input, upsamples AND oversamples it up to 768kHz, buffers it again, and then re-clocks the signal just before feeding it to the DAC chip with a clock that is spec'd at +/- 2 picoseconds. And despite all of this, it is *still* sensitive to jitter in the input signal. I had my Sony S7700 modded twice, both times the mods were targetted primarily at improving the jitter, and both times resulted in significant improvements in sound. How and why? I have no idea. I've talked with a number of engineers, and most have offered up that any Phase-lock-loop (PLL)-based design will be affected by jitter in the input signal, and the only real way to solve the jitter issue is via a Master-Slave distributed clocking system. Yes, I'd agree with that. Or improve the DAC and leave it close-coupled to the SB transport of course ;-) Here's some recently made J-test measurements, of the S/PDIF coax signal with a standard SB3 and our SB2+. The comparison (rather than the absolute numbers) is interesting - the SB2+ is lower noise across the board, particularly around the test-tone 'spike'. IME, this translates to an audible difference with any external DAC. http://www.at-view.co.uk/sb2_jitter.htm -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21628 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Coax or Optical
Wombat Wrote: @P Folding Welcome to the club! I also have better results with the optical connection. I hadn´t much time in testing my Squeezy to hard. Today i took me some time and tried a bit around. I took one of my favorite recordings out and tried. It is the Dead Man Walking Soundtrack i often take for comparisons. Bruce Springsteens voice in the first track reveals it to me most easily. I have a Marantz CD5000OSE that doesn´t show much differences between optical or coax at all, maybe cause the standard clocking isn´t to good to start with. My DAC is resampling by nature and i can switch 4 inputs directly for easy comparison. The result is strange somehow! The two Marantz exits sound better than the Squeezys coax exit here. But the optical exit of the Squeezy is better than the Marantz. I tested coax/coax and optical(SB)/coax(Marantz) against. I know some of you have hard jittering measure facts of a kind but this doesn´t impress me to much. I like more to listen. I may dig deeper into this in the near future and build a simple, good PSu to start with cause everybody hypes it. Before you ask for more details. My setup is well proven in an Avantgarde Trio enviroment (sadly not mine) P.S. Normaly i don´t do such subjective listening reports in public cause everybody just can write without any proove up to esoteric levels :) I hope nobody from Hydrogneaudio.org does read this ;) Glad to hear you trust your ears! Jitter figures are nice to have, but if you don't know what kind of jitter it is, then it doesn't tell you all that much. In addition, unless you measure on your own system, with all components in place and hooked up, you don't know if those jitter figures are even relevant. One problem with relying on only measurments seems to be that a lot of what we can (or usually) measure doesn't seem to affect the enjoyment of a system all that much, wheras things that are not usually measured often seem to affect the sound a lot. For example, I can alter the sound quality of my system simply by plugging in, or unplugging components (that are not used, they just sit there). I haven't seen ANY measurements on actual systems with lots of things hooked up to them! Nor have I seen any theoretical discussions on the possible effects of hooking up half a dozen components to each other. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review in the works!
Patrick Dixon Wrote: Yes, I'd agree with that. Or improve the DAC and leave it close-coupled to the SB transport of course ;-) Here's some recently made J-test measurements, of the S/PDIF coax signal with a standard SB3 and our SB2+. The comparison (rather than the absolute numbers) is interesting - the SB2+ is lower noise across the board, particularly around the test-tone 'spike'. IME, this translates to an audible difference with any external DAC. http://www.at-view.co.uk/sb2_jitter.htm I don't think any human could hear those sidebands at -120 dB, let alone the bump in the noise floor at -170 dB! To hear that would be truly superhuman. -- ezkcdude SB3-Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC-MIT Terminator 2 interconnects-Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)-Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier-Speltz anti-cables-DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10 subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21628 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB-3 and external DAC
I currently purchased a very, very good DAC from Hong Kong; I previously owned the Benchmark and I prompty sold the Bench after lengthy A/B comparisons. It is a looker too. More info in my Head-Fi thread here: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168113 -- akwok akwok's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2298 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=17948 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB-3 and external DAC
akwok Wrote: It is a looker too, for $500 shipped. Battery operated, with a digital switch that charges when it's low on battery, and can run off the wall and charge at the same time. NOS design, 8x TDA1543 in parallel. Wow. I haven't wanted anything so badly since first seeing the Squeezebox. Good find! -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=17948 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB-3 and external DAC
Just curious. I have a Derek Shek NOS DAC (the black box version). I don't suppose you've compared it to that? Also, did you consider the Zhaolu 1.3? What made you decide to go for the Storm? -- ezkcdude SB3-Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC-MIT Terminator 2 interconnects-Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)-Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier-Speltz anti-cables-DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10 subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=17948 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB-3 and external DAC
akwok Wrote: I haven't tried the Derek Shek NOS DAC. Perhaps you should try the Storm and write up a review? :D I wish. If I hadn't upgraded every component in my system over the last several months (SqueezeBox, DAC, Passive Attenuators, Amp, Cables, Subwoofer), maybe I'd have the money :) Anyway, next time I upgrade DAC's, it's going to be one that is balanced, and I've read that NOS DACs can't be truly balanced. So, of course, I'm thinking about the Lavry DA10, or maybe the new Bel Canto DAC3 when that comes out. I was hoping it would be a couple of years before I get upgraditis again. Your DAC looks sweet though. Happy listening. -- ezkcdude SB3-Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC-MIT Terminator 2 interconnects-Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)-Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier-Speltz anti-cables-DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10 subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=17948 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB-3 and external DAC
That's a sweet looking DAC. I love my DAC-60s look and feel but that one is simply incredible! -- crooner Squeezebox 3 with Power One Linear Power Supply Lite Audio DAC60 tube DAC Pioneer SX-1980 Vandersteen 2Ce Signature Vandersteen 2W crooner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3379 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=17948 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Part 2 of Enjoy the Music SqueezeBox review
I just came across this, and thought I'd post a link. It's a review of a Bolder-modified SB2: http://tinyurl.com/ro2h2 -- ezkcdude SB3-Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC-MIT Terminator 2 interconnects-Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)-Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier-Speltz anti-cables-DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10 subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22000 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Part 2 of Enjoy the Music SqueezeBox review
Question - is the power supply quality of any relevance if I'm using coax digital out to an outboard decoder? Or would the power supply question only be relevant were I using the SB3's analog outputs? -- Cleve Two-channel system; McIntosh MC2205 amplifier McIntosh MAC4100 receiver Klipsch CF-4 speakers Denon DR-M3 Cassette Deck Cleve's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2048 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22000 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Part 2 of Enjoy the Music SqueezeBox review
Cleve, Nice rig, by the way. The short answer is this: if you're using the coax output to an external DAC that completely re-clocks the incoming signal, then all of this stuff, including power supply questions, is rubbish. Other stuff: look up the well-know Bay Area Audiophile Society blind test of power cords. Even with a sales rep present and extolling the virtues of kilo-buck power cords, over the course of a day audiophile listeners never really scored better than 50% in guessing the audiophile cord over a stock IEC cord. But the best thing about that review isn't the power cord. It's the Bybee filter. When you see those two words together...and can see someone who has been taken for a ride, wants to be taken for a ride, or wants to take you for a ride. -- highdudgeon highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22000 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Stereophile review in the works!
Phil, I do agree without -- it is not about the price tag; it is about the proper and thoughtful integration of the system and the system to environment. I've also put a great deal of time and effort into this. The Harbeths are just wonderul, neutral speakers. I use treatments, RTA and FFT room measurements, and equalization, amongst other things, to get it right -- down to doing some math (well, 2nd grade math, I suppose) to help my ears, measurements, etc., for speaker placement. Yes, I can hear the differences, here more than there, sometimes, and there more than here, other times. It does boil down to the to me question, in the end, and, to me, my system is very satisfying and some subtle issues bug me less than others. A lot of these things are downright subjective, after all. -- highdudgeon highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21628 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Part 2 of Enjoy the Music SqueezeBox review
highdudgeon Wrote: Other stuff: look up the well-know Bay Area Audiophile Society blind test of power cords. Even with a sales rep present and extolling the virtues of kilo-buck power cords, over the course of a day audiophile listeners never really scored better than 50% in guessing the audiophile cord over a stock IEC cord. I've read that. I enjoy reading about folks' blind testing, particularly when it's done fairly rigorously, and the numbers are presented, p-values calculated, etc. But it was just one test; other people need to replicate the test in order to rely on them with confidence. For example, there might have been too much background noise at the test, or the speakers weren't high quality enough or whatever. (I don't recall the exact conditions of the test, I'm just throwing out examples.) So I'll remain fairly agnostic about this stuff until these sorts of tests are replicated. Unfortunately, few people do them even once... -- Mike Anderson 'FREE RADICAL RADIO!' (http://nvo.com/cd) Hours of free radical MP3s. Mike Anderson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1705 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22000 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Part 2 of Enjoy the Music SqueezeBox review
Mike Anderson Wrote: I've read that. I enjoy reading about folks' blind testing, particularly when it's done fairly rigorously, and the numbers are presented, p-values calculated, etc. I enjoy reading those too, so don't get me wrong. The arguments by example, however, prove something specifically, but make general inferences from the conclusion. i.e. kilo-buck cord makes little/no difference in one system, therefore can make no difference in ANY system? I'm not trying to argue the power cord though, and I wouldn't touch the bybees w/ a ten foot pole, just the switching supply. Why do I get the feeling the incoming AC to the Slim Devices testing facility is cleaner than the knob and post wiring in my rented 100 year old house, which is surrounded by more towers and businesses than I can count? The SB power supply as a whole should eliminate noise. It certainly seems to in the test facility, but not so well in my house. Switching (no pun) to a good, but cheap, linear made me gush like a paid reviewer. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22000 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Thanks for tip on Axiom!
Not sure about the axiom, but I considered getting the Ascend CBM170 bookshelfs for their effeciency and good reviews, though I was working with closer to 15 watts: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21118 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Thanks for tip on Axiom!
The speakers require a minimum 10W power so the Sonic T-amp would be able to drive them. I'm using a T-amp with the speakers from my plasma in the bedroom and it sounds alright. Certainly not audiophile but I would like to try some better speakers with it. -- notanatheist notanatheist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=21118 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophiles, help out a noob.
I'd like to use Squeezeboxes for a whole house audio type of solution. I've read a lot of the threads in this forum and a lot of it is over my head and out of my price range. I am particularly interested in small form factor. I'd like an amp that could be hidden so that the only thing visible would be the squeezebox and the speakers. The Sonic Impact Super T Amp I saw mentioned in another thread here seems to be exactly what I am looking for, but I'm not sure it is enough to power normal speakers. Maybe a good way to phrase the question would be What would you recommend for your grandmother? This often works on computer forums when one is looking for a quality solution that would be easy to use and deploy. I realize that many of you may not concern yourselves with lower end solutions, but perhaps someone has some ideas. -- NWP NWP's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3730 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22012 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Audiophiles, help out a noob.
For my grandmother I'd recommend a CD mini system. There's nothing involving a squeezebox she'd have any chance with (that's not a dig at SD, just a different market). The T-Amp is great. I don't know what you consider normal speakers, but I use it with some regular Mission bookshelves and it sounds great, plenty loud enough for my home office (12ft x 16ft or so). I wouldn't replace my Marantz in the living room with one, because it wouldn't stand a chance against floorstanders, but for bedroom or bathroom use I'd recommend it. Hey - it's $30 - what's to lose? -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22012 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Audiophiles, help out a noob.
NWP Wrote: I'd like to use Squeezeboxes for a whole house audio type of solution. I've read a lot of the threads in this forum and a lot of it is over my head and out of my price range. I am particularly interested in small form factor. I'd like an amp that could be hidden so that the only thing visible would be the squeezebox and the speakers. The Sonic Impact Super T Amp I saw mentioned in another thread here seems to be exactly what I am looking for, but I'm not sure it is enough to power normal speakers. Maybe a good way to phrase the question would be What would you recommend for your grandmother? This often works on computer forums when one is looking for a quality solution that would be easy to use and deploy. I realize that many of you may not concern yourselves with lower end solutions, but perhaps someone has some ideas. I'm not sure asking for a solution that would suit your grandmother would result in anything involving a PC-server and one or more SBs... Perhaps you would like to be more specific? I use a T-Amp ($30), and plan on using more of them, even though I'd call myself an audiophile. Price tag has little to do with appreciating decent sound! Regards -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22012 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Part 2 of Enjoy the Music SqueezeBox review
highdudgeon Wrote: The short answer is this: if you're using the coax output to an external DAC that completely re-clocks the incoming signal, then all of this stuff, including power supply questions, is rubbish. Please specify what you mean by re-clock, and please give an example of such a DAC. (Perhaps you are not aware of what a sorry state the digital audio technology side of things is in?) -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22000 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
