Re: [aur-dev] [PATCH] Make deleted comments visible to Trusted Users
On 2014-07-27 21:12, Xyne wrote: On 2014-07-27 11:29 +1200 David Phillips wrote: So maybe we should clean them up occasionally? Makes sense. A TU's hardly going to receive complaints about abuse 12 -- or even 6 -- months after the incident. Even 3 months would be enough to report abuse. Alternatively, add a report abuse button that stores a copy of the comment. It can then be reviewed even if the original comment is deleted. The copy can be deleted when the report is closed (or after some interval). This would also be less tedious than scanning through all the duplicate comments posted due to the absence of an edit function. I much prefer the idea of storing reported comments. This confirms that the comment was posted while not keeping deleted comments. Another option would be to allow a window in which comments can be deleted without penalty, then disallowing deletion after some threshold. TUs would still be able to delete comments then, but the users that posted them wouldn't. I don't like the idea of keeping deleted comments not because there's any useful/private information in them, but out of principle that you shouldn't keep content from a user that they chose to delete without a good reason to do so. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [aur-dev] [PATCH] Make deleted comments visible to Trusted Users
On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 at 09:29:53, Alex Charron wrote: On 2014-07-27 21:12, Xyne wrote: On 2014-07-27 11:29 +1200 David Phillips wrote: So maybe we should clean them up occasionally? Makes sense. A TU's hardly going to receive complaints about abuse 12 -- or even 6 -- months after the incident. Even 3 months would be enough to report abuse. Alternatively, add a report abuse button that stores a copy of the comment. It can then be reviewed even if the original comment is deleted. The copy can be deleted when the report is closed (or after some interval). This would also be less tedious than scanning through all the duplicate comments posted due to the absence of an edit function. I am not sure about that. Users could delete their comment before anyone has a chance to report it and subscribers would still have the insult in their incoming mail. Then again, you could argue that the abuser could just as well have send a private email to everyone... Let me describe another scenario that happened: A package maintainer did not want to update a completely broken AUR package and told the users that the package is fine and that he won't do anything. After some discussion, one of the upset users filed an orphan request. Thereupon, the package maintainer deleted all of his comments, claiming that he would never have said something like that. And indeed, it was very hard to tell whether the maintainer replied to the comments or not (without having a look at the deleted ones). Would a Report Abuse button help here? I much prefer the idea of storing reported comments. This confirms that the comment was posted while not keeping deleted comments. Another option would be to allow a window in which comments can be deleted without penalty, then disallowing deletion after some threshold. TUs would still be able to delete comments then, but the users that posted them wouldn't. I don't like the idea of keeping deleted comments not because there's any useful/private information in them, but out of principle that you shouldn't keep content from a user that they chose to delete without a good reason to do so. This contradicts itself. You want to give the user the freedom to delete their comments but on the other hand you disallow deleting comments after a short period of time. Right now, a user can (at any time) delete everything he posted in AUR comments so that only a very small group of trusted people (~50) will still be able to read it. When implementing the time window idea, everyone will be able to read the comments if you do not act quickly enough. Note that I will not change the comments deletion feature before the 3.4.0 release but I am open for suggestions and discussion. Maybe we can reach a consensus that allows us to close FS#14840 [1] and FS#34690 [2]. Regards, Lukas [1] https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/14840 [2] https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/34690
Re: [aur-dev] [PATCH] Make deleted comments visible to Trusted Users
On 2014-07-28 11:10 +0200 Lukas Fleischer wrote: I am not sure about that. Users could delete their comment before anyone has a chance to report it and subscribers would still have the insult in their incoming mail. Then again, you could argue that the abuser could just as well have send a private email to everyone... In that case the email can be forwarded to a TU or to aur-general. Let me describe another scenario that happened: A package maintainer did not want to update a completely broken AUR package and told the users that the package is fine and that he won't do anything. After some discussion, one of the upset users filed an orphan request. Thereupon, the package maintainer deleted all of his comments, claiming that he would never have said something like that. And indeed, it was very hard to tell whether the maintainer replied to the comments or not (without having a look at the deleted ones). Would a Report Abuse button help here? A user could have reported a refusal to fix the broken package, yes. We could have a general report button, not just one for reporting verbal abuse against other users. Note that I will not change the comments deletion feature before the 3.4.0 release but I am open for suggestions and discussion. Maybe we can reach a consensus that allows us to close FS#14840 [1] and FS#34690 [2]. [1] https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/14840 [2] https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/34690 If comments are delible then they should also be editable as both can disturb the flow on the page. Personally I'm not worried about the flow of comments on the page as it should be limited to packaging issues which in turn should be fixed as soon as there is a solution. I really think that comments should be both editable and delible. The AUR is not a collection of holy stone tablets to be preserved for all posterity nor should it chronicle the full history of every package. If that was its purpose then we would be crying out for more advanced commenting features (e.g. codeblocks, quotes). If some important data goes missing someone else will repost it. A report button would work well with editable comments (just store a copy of the actionable edit). Keeping previous versions alongside the current version would probably be more complicated. In either case, at some point we should expunge the old cruft. Persistent trolls will keep making trollish comments and reformed trolls can be ignored.
Re: [aur-dev] [PATCH] Make deleted comments visible to Trusted Users
On 2014-07-25 19:49 +0200 Lukas Fleischer wrote: On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 at 18:42:22, Xyne wrote: On 2014-07-25 11:31 +0200 Lukas Fleischer wrote: This allows Trusted Users to check whether a user posted a politically incorrect comment, even if he already deleted it. Why keep deleted comments? How long are they kept? Yes. Forever. Is there some technical reason for not deleting comments? If not, please (re)consider actually deleting them. Keeping them is simultaneously a waste of bits and a bit creepy.
Re: [aur-dev] [PATCH] Make deleted comments visible to Trusted Users
On 2014-07-25 11:31 +0200 Lukas Fleischer wrote: This allows Trusted Users to check whether a user posted a politically incorrect comment, even if he already deleted it. Why keep deleted comments? How long are they kept?
