Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

[Mark Newton]

On 06/06/2017, DMcD and Mike Borgelt wrote:

Besides, you are a cowardly anonymous troll.

And you?



Please don't. Just... don't.

  - mark

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

[DMcD]

>>It is just good engineering to use what is available that will do the job. 
>>I'm guessing you've never actually done any engineering or manufactured 
>>anything.

You guess wrong. That's exactly what I do. I guess you don't work in
any engineering where someone looks at your product and says do they
really look like that? If so, we'll buy two sets…(These were NASA
contract engineers with more PHDs than I have had hot dinners.)

There's no reason why a machine should not look as good as it works
other than the lack of imagination or laziness of the designer.

There are plenty of cars and boats made in numbers as small as
sailplanes, where great care is taken over every aspect of the design,
not just the aerodynamic engineering. Take a look at most of the
Jonkers products.

Oh, and there are a few gliders which don't just use wheelbarrow
handles on control columns. I guess you don't see enough modern
gliders.

>>Besides, you are a cowardly anonymous troll.

And you?

D
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

[Mike Borgelt]

Most aircraft designs are built in total numbers 
smaller than what a car manufacturer would put 
through the production line to debug the line.


It is just good engineering to use what is available that will do the job.

I'm guessing you've never actually done any 
engineering or manufactured anything. Academic, 
but not from any STEM fields who can't do physics or maths?


Besides, you are a cowardly anonymous troll. The 
vast majority of people in this place identify themselves.


Mike


At 10:01 PM 6/5/2017, you wrote:
>>You'd like the $250,000 glider to cost 
$300,000 or more? Most cars costing more than 
say $30,000 have a steering wheel that is not 
just a cheap plastic moulding. It does not cost 
$50,000 extra to do that. A wheelbarrow handle 
is designed to be held like 'this'… and an 
aircraft ccontrol column is designed to be held 
like 'that'… diffeerent ergonomics. One is 
designed to be gripped hard and the other 
should not be. If you don't get the difference, 
have a look at the grip shape on any low-cost 
computer joystick. It does not look anything 
like a wheelbarrow or bicycle handle. As Macca 
points out, you can use the handle from a ski 
stock or a Norwegian walking stick or whatever 
they are called. At least they're designed to 
be held like 'that'. D 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

[Texler, Michael]

Hi Tom,

For knobs why not consider an arcade knob? (Many different colours too!)
http://www.austinamusements.com.au/joysticks/joystick-knobs-choose-your-colour.html

Regards

Michael Texler

-Original Message-
From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of 
Tom Wilksch
Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 3:55 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

Afternoon all

Could anybody advise a good place to purchase things like airbrake handles and 
trim knobs?

Thanks

Tom W 

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

[DMcD]

>>You'd like the $250,000 glider to cost $300,000 or more?

Most cars costing more than say $30,000 have a steering wheel that is
not just a cheap plastic moulding. It does not cost $50,000 extra to
do that.

A wheelbarrow handle is designed to be held like 'this'… and an
aircraft control column is designed to be held like 'that'… different
ergonomics. One is designed to be gripped hard and the other should
not be.

If you don't get the difference, have a look at the grip shape on any
low-cost computer joystick. It does not look anything like a
wheelbarrow or bicycle handle.

As Macca points out, you can use the handle from a ski stock or a
Norwegian walking stick or whatever they are called. At least they're
designed to be held like 'that'.

D
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

[Mike Borgelt]

Good engineering is when you don't re-invent the wheel every time.
You'd like the $250,000 glider to cost $300,000 or more?

I knew a bloke in California once who owned a business making 
switches for the aerospace industry. He had a large range of standard 
products but when his salesmen showed these an aerospace company for 
their new project they were swept aside and a new set of custom 
switches specified and designed for every new aircraft/spacecraft. 
Cost plus contracts will do that. Gliding doesn't operate in that space.


Mike




At 02:52 PM 6/5/2017, you wrote:

HA,

Knobs etc and standard parts:

http://www.ddbarry.com.au

Mainly German.

I note that you're making a PC control but I find it odd that one can
spend the thick end of $250,000 on some new gliders and the physical
connection between you and this beautiful thing is the handle off a
wheelbarrow.

D
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tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

[tom . wilksch]

Thanks for all the replies, they have been very helpful.
I should have been more specific, these are to be used on a PC control
unit I'm putting together, rather than an actual aircraft. I don't
think there are any good options for airbrakes and flaps at the moment
when flying sims, so decided to come up with something myself
Cheers
Tom 

- Original Message -
From: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 
To:"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 
Cc:
Sent:Sun, 4 Jun 2017 20:52:38 +1000
Subject:Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

Agree with Bob and bike grips
 The Germans often use blue handles off skiing stocks. The slot at
back is for the strap. Also stick grips are black ski stock handles
again with slot for strap.   Sometimes a bit hard to find in some
areas in Australia.  At corner store in Germany. 
 Some gliders like all Astir's use the black ski stocks but these can
easily come off stick in flight. There is an AD on some models of
astirs(not all but should Be) the the grip coming off. I always add a
3mm SS screw at base of grip as fools in the past have put their head
through the canopy and then I had to flop some perspex and glue in a
30cm circle.  Adding  the screw before the head goes through canopy
 is much easier!!  
 Ian McPhee  0428847642  Box 657 Byron Bay NSW 2481 Australia  

On 4 Jun 2017 19:38, "Bob Ward"  wrote:
Tom,

 Airbrake handles are no problem, as blue bicycle grip s will do the
job.
 Available from any bicycle retailer.  Trim knobs? A little more
difficult,
 unless you can describe the shape of the original.
 Typically, these control knobs have a 6 mm internal thread which is a
metal
 insert into the plastic grip Any handy person with access to a lathe
could
 produce such an insert, which would then be epoxied into a suitable
knob.
 such as a green plastic ball. I think that most commercial glider
facilities
 would have expertise to the skills require for the fabrication of a
trim
 knob. I hope this helps you.
 What I have described applieS to a glass fibre gliderS. IF YOU NEED
HANDLES
 FOR OLDER STEEL TUBE FUSELAGES, THEN PLEASE GET BACK TO ME OFF LINE.

 regards
 Bob Ward

 -Original Message- From: Tom Wilksch
 Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 5:54 PM
 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
 Subject: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

 Afternoon all

 Could anybody advise a good place to purchase things like airbrake
handles
 and trim knobs?

 Thanks

 Tom W

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

[tom . wilksch]

Exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
It's not actually for an aircraft, I should have been more specific.
It's for a PC control unit I'm putting together to replicate airbrakes
and flaps, since I don't think anything good exists at the moment 
Cheers
Tom 

- Original Message -
From: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 
To:"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 
Cc:
Sent:Sun, 4 Jun 2017 20:32:46 +0930
Subject:Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

 I have used some from

 https://www.minibearings.com.au/store/categories/knobs+ball+categories/


 Anthony

 -Original Message-
 From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On
Behalf
 Of Bob Ward
 Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 7:08 PM
 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.

 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

 Tom,

 Airbrake handles are no problem, as blue bicycle grip s will do the
job.
 Available from any bicycle retailer. Trim knobs? A little more
difficult,
 unless you can describe the shape of the original.
 Typically, these control knobs have a 6 mm internal thread which is a
metal
 insert into the plastic grip Any handy person with access to a lathe
could
 produce such an insert, which would then be epoxied into a suitable
knob.
 such as a green plastic ball. I think that most commercial glider
facilities
 would have expertise to the skills require for the fabrication of a
trim
 knob. I hope this helps you.
 What I have described applieS to a glass fibre gliderS. IF YOU NEED
HANDLES
 FOR OLDER STEEL TUBE FUSELAGES, THEN PLEASE GET BACK TO ME OFF LINE.

 regards
 Bob Ward

 -Original Message-
 From: Tom Wilksch
 Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 5:54 PM
 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
 Subject: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

 Afternoon all

 Could anybody advise a good place to purchase things like airbrake
handles
 and trim knobs?

 Thanks

 Tom W

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

[Anthony Smith]

I have used some from

https://www.minibearings.com.au/store/categories/knobs+ball+categories/ 

Anthony

-Original Message-
From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf
Of Bob Ward
Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2017 7:08 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
<aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

Tom,

Airbrake handles are no problem, as blue bicycle grip s will do the job.
Available from any bicycle retailer.  Trim knobs? A little more difficult,
unless you can describe the shape of the original.
Typically, these control knobs have a 6 mm internal thread which is a metal
insert into the plastic grip Any handy person with access to a lathe could
produce such an insert, which would then be epoxied into a suitable knob.
such as a green plastic ball. I think that most commercial glider facilities
would have expertise to the skills require for the fabrication of a trim
knob. I hope this helps you.
What I have described applieS to a glass fibre gliderS. IF YOU NEED HANDLES
FOR OLDER STEEL TUBE FUSELAGES, THEN PLEASE GET BACK TO ME OFF LINE.

regards
Bob Ward

-Original Message-
From: Tom Wilksch
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 5:54 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

Afternoon all

Could anybody advise a good place to purchase things like airbrake handles
and trim knobs?

Thanks

Tom W

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

[Ian Mc Phee]

Agree with Bob and bike grips

The Germans often use blue handles off skiing stocks. The slot at back is
for the strap. Also stick grips are black ski stock handles again with slot
for strap.   Sometimes a bit hard to find in some areas in Australia.  At
corner store in Germany.

Some gliders like all Astir's use the black ski stocks but these can easily
come off stick in flight. There is an AD on some models of astirs(not all
but should Be) the the grip coming off. I always add a 3mm SS screw at base
of grip as fools in the past have put their head through the canopy and
then I had to flop some perspex and glue in a 30cm circle.  Adding  the
screw before the head goes through canopy  is much easier!!

Ian McPhee
0428847642
Box 657 Byron Bay NSW 2481 Australia



On 4 Jun 2017 19:38, "Bob Ward"  wrote:

> Tom,
>
> Airbrake handles are no problem, as blue bicycle grip s will do the job.
> Available from any bicycle retailer.  Trim knobs? A little more difficult,
> unless you can describe the shape of the original.
> Typically, these control knobs have a 6 mm internal thread which is a metal
> insert into the plastic grip Any handy person with access to a lathe could
> produce such an insert, which would then be epoxied into a suitable knob.
> such as a green plastic ball. I think that most commercial glider
> facilities
> would have expertise to the skills require for the fabrication of a trim
> knob. I hope this helps you.
> What I have described applieS to a glass fibre gliderS. IF YOU NEED HANDLES
> FOR OLDER STEEL TUBE FUSELAGES, THEN PLEASE GET BACK TO ME OFF LINE.
>
> regards
> Bob Ward
>
> -Original Message- From: Tom Wilksch
> Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 5:54 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles
>
> Afternoon all
>
> Could anybody advise a good place to purchase things like airbrake handles
> and trim knobs?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom W
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

[Bob Ward]

Tom,

Airbrake handles are no problem, as blue bicycle grip s will do the job.
Available from any bicycle retailer.  Trim knobs? A little more difficult,
unless you can describe the shape of the original.
Typically, these control knobs have a 6 mm internal thread which is a metal
insert into the plastic grip Any handy person with access to a lathe could
produce such an insert, which would then be epoxied into a suitable knob.
such as a green plastic ball. I think that most commercial glider facilities
would have expertise to the skills require for the fabrication of a trim
knob. I hope this helps you.
What I have described applieS to a glass fibre gliderS. IF YOU NEED HANDLES
FOR OLDER STEEL TUBE FUSELAGES, THEN PLEASE GET BACK TO ME OFF LINE.

regards
Bob Ward

-Original Message- 
From: Tom Wilksch

Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2017 5:54 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Air brake handles

Afternoon all

Could anybody advise a good place to purchase things like airbrake handles
and trim knobs?

Thanks

Tom W

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