[1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 0001790]: More info on *ALT* constants
The following issue has been RESOLVED. == https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1790 == Reported By:steffen Assigned To: == Project:1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 Issue ID: 1790 Category: Base Definitions and Headers Type: Clarification Requested Severity: Editorial Priority: normal Status: Resolved Name: steffen Organization: User Reference: Section:langinfo.h Page Number:276 Line Number:9587 pp, 9611 pp Interp Status: --- Final Accepted Text:See https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1790#c6630 Resolution: Accepted As Marked Fixed in Version: == Date Submitted: 2023-12-01 21:00 UTC Last Modified: 2024-01-18 17:12 UTC == Summary:More info on *ALT* constants == Issue History Date ModifiedUsername FieldChange == 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenNew Issue 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenName => steffen 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenSection => langinfo.h 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenPage Number => 276 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenLine Number => 9587 pp, 9611 pp 2024-01-15 18:33 shware_systems Note Added: 0006622 2024-01-17 00:00 steffenNote Added: 0006625 2024-01-18 17:08 shware_systems Note Added: 0006629 2024-01-18 17:11 nick Note Added: 0006630 2024-01-18 17:12 nick Interp Status => --- 2024-01-18 17:12 nick Final Accepted Text => See https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1790#c6630 2024-01-18 17:12 nick Status New => Resolved 2024-01-18 17:12 nick Resolution Open => Accepted As Marked ==
[1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 0001790]: More info on *ALT* constants
A NOTE has been added to this issue. == https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1790 == Reported By:steffen Assigned To: == Project:1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 Issue ID: 1790 Category: Base Definitions and Headers Type: Clarification Requested Severity: Editorial Priority: normal Status: New Name: steffen Organization: User Reference: Section:langinfo.h Page Number:276 Line Number:9587 pp, 9611 pp Interp Status: --- Final Accepted Text: == Date Submitted: 2023-12-01 21:00 UTC Last Modified: 2024-01-18 17:11 UTC == Summary:More info on *ALT* constants == -- (0006630) nick (manager) - 2024-01-18 17:11 https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1790#c6630 -- D4 page and line numbers. Add to Application Usage, page 277 after line 9645: For languages having both a genitive (when used with a day number) and a nominative (no day number) case, the "alternative" month names described here are for use when a nominative case is required, see XREF 7.3.5.1 LC_TIME Locale Definition. Issue History Date ModifiedUsername FieldChange == 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenNew Issue 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenName => steffen 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenSection => langinfo.h 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenPage Number => 276 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenLine Number => 9587 pp, 9611 pp 2024-01-15 18:33 shware_systems Note Added: 0006622 2024-01-17 00:00 steffenNote Added: 0006625 2024-01-18 17:08 shware_systems Note Added: 0006629 2024-01-18 17:11 nick Note Added: 0006630 ==
[1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 0001790]: More info on *ALT* constants
A NOTE has been added to this issue. == https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1790 == Reported By:steffen Assigned To: == Project:1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 Issue ID: 1790 Category: Base Definitions and Headers Type: Clarification Requested Severity: Editorial Priority: normal Status: New Name: steffen Organization: User Reference: Section:langinfo.h Page Number:276 Line Number:9587 pp, 9611 pp Interp Status: --- Final Accepted Text: == Date Submitted: 2023-12-01 21:00 UTC Last Modified: 2024-01-18 17:08 UTC == Summary:More info on *ALT* constants == -- (0006629) shware_systems (reporter) - 2024-01-18 17:08 https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1790#c6629 -- Apologies, I was confusing the ALT and ERA constants, and it is ERA that represents other calendars. XBD 7 is explicit ALT strings are for the nominitive case, if a language has one, and no ALT is for the genitive case. The standard doesn't address additional cases like partitive so perhaps a proposal for that is warranted. Issue History Date ModifiedUsername FieldChange == 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenNew Issue 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenName => steffen 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenSection => langinfo.h 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenPage Number => 276 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenLine Number => 9587 pp, 9611 pp 2024-01-15 18:33 shware_systems Note Added: 0006622 2024-01-17 00:00 steffenNote Added: 0006625 2024-01-18 17:08 shware_systems Note Added: 0006629 ==
[1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 0001790]: More info on *ALT* constants
A NOTE has been added to this issue. == https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1790 == Reported By:steffen Assigned To: == Project:1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 Issue ID: 1790 Category: Base Definitions and Headers Type: Clarification Requested Severity: Editorial Priority: normal Status: New Name: steffen Organization: User Reference: Section:langinfo.h Page Number:276 Line Number:9587 pp, 9611 pp Interp Status: --- Final Accepted Text: == Date Submitted: 2023-12-01 21:00 UTC Last Modified: 2024-01-17 00:00 UTC == Summary:More info on *ALT* constants == -- (0006625) steffen (reporter) - 2024-01-17 00:00 https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1790#c6625 -- I do not think so. (I would not have thought that ALT does the great to handle entire calendar systems?) Issue History Date ModifiedUsername FieldChange == 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenNew Issue 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenName => steffen 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenSection => langinfo.h 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenPage Number => 276 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenLine Number => 9587 pp, 9611 pp 2024-01-15 18:33 shware_systems Note Added: 0006622 2024-01-17 00:00 steffenNote Added: 0006625 ==
[1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 0001790]: More info on *ALT* constants
A NOTE has been added to this issue. == https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1790 == Reported By:steffen Assigned To: == Project:1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 Issue ID: 1790 Category: Base Definitions and Headers Type: Clarification Requested Severity: Editorial Priority: normal Status: New Name: steffen Organization: User Reference: Section:langinfo.h Page Number:276 Line Number:9587 pp, 9611 pp Interp Status: --- Final Accepted Text: == Date Submitted: 2023-12-01 21:00 UTC Last Modified: 2024-01-15 18:33 UTC == Summary:More info on *ALT* constants == -- (0006622) shware_systems (reporter) - 2024-01-15 18:33 https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1790#c6622 -- I thought the primary names were how locales represented the Gregorian calendar in a particular language, and ALT names were for how they might represent an alternate calendar like Chinese, Hebrew or even Mayan, each in a single grammar form. Handling multiple grammar cases is way more an unspecified extension that would likely need a formal proposal modifying XBD 7 to add to the standard, not simply modifying this header arbitrarily. Issue History Date ModifiedUsername FieldChange == 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenNew Issue 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenName => steffen 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenSection => langinfo.h 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenPage Number => 276 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenLine Number => 9587 pp, 9611 pp 2024-01-15 18:33 shware_systems Note Added: 0006622 ==
[1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 0001790]: More info on *ALT* constants
The following issue has been SUBMITTED. == https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1790 == Reported By:steffen Assigned To: == Project:1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 Issue ID: 1790 Category: Base Definitions and Headers Type: Clarification Requested Severity: Editorial Priority: normal Status: New Name: steffen Organization: User Reference: Section:langinfo.h Page Number:276 Line Number:9587 pp, 9611 pp Interp Status: --- Final Accepted Text: == Date Submitted: 2023-12-01 21:00 UTC Last Modified: 2023-12-01 21:00 UTC == Summary:More info on *ALT* constants Description: The *ALT* series is documented as alternative appropriate and alternative name which is completely non-descriptive. It seems the intent is that ALTMON_* is Long month names, in the grammatical form used when the month is named by itself. Ditto abbreviated. Ie in the wild (FreeBSD, Linux) and on the Unicode CLDR, but let me just quote a commit message of chris...@freebsd.org i have seen fly by today, a bit abbreviated: The CLDR specification [1] defines three possible month formats: - Abbreviation (e.g Jan, Ιαν) - Full (e.g January, Ιανουαρίου) - Standalone (e.g January, Ιανουάριος) Many languages use different case endings depending on whether the month is referenced as a standalone word (nominative case), or in date context (genitive, partitive, etc.). sort(1)'s -M option currently sorts months by testing input against only the abbrevation format, which is essentially a substring of the full format. While this works fine for languages like English, where there are no cases, for languages where there is a different case ending between the abbreviation/full and standalone formats, it is not sufficient. For example, in Greek, "May" can take the following forms: Abbreviation: Μαΐ (genitive case) Full: Μαΐου (genitive case) Standalone: Μάιος (nominative case) If we use the standalone format in Greek, sort(1) will not able to match "Μαΐ" to "Μάιος" and the sort will fail. This change makes sort(1) test against all three formats. It also works when the input contains mixed formats. [1] https://cldr.unicode.org/translation/date-time/date-time-patterns Desired Action: If so intended, please adjust the descriptions of the *ALT* series to match CLDR and be more self-descriptive as their are today. == Issue History Date ModifiedUsername FieldChange == 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenNew Issue 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenName => steffen 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenSection => langinfo.h 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenPage Number => 276 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenLine Number => 9587 pp, 9611 pp ==
[1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 0001790]: More info on *ALT* constants
The following issue has been SUBMITTED. == https://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1790 == Reported By:steffen Assigned To: == Project:1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 Issue ID: 1790 Category: Base Definitions and Headers Type: Clarification Requested Severity: Editorial Priority: normal Status: New Name: steffen Organization: User Reference: Section:langinfo.h Page Number:276 Line Number:9587 pp, 9611 pp Interp Status: --- Final Accepted Text: == Date Submitted: 2023-12-01 21:00 UTC Last Modified: 2023-12-01 21:00 UTC == Summary:More info on *ALT* constants Description: The *ALT* series is documented as alternative appropriate and alternative name which is completely non-descriptive. It seems the intent is that ALTMON_* is Long month names, in the grammatical form used when the month is named by itself. Ditto abbreviated. Ie in the wild (FreeBSD, Linux) and on the Unicode CLDR, but let me just quote a commit message of chris...@freebsd.org i have seen fly by today, a bit abbreviated: The CLDR specification [1] defines three possible month formats: - Abbreviation (e.g Jan, Ιαν) - Full (e.g January, Ιανουαρίου) - Standalone (e.g January, Ιανουάριος) Many languages use different case endings depending on whether the month is referenced as a standalone word (nominative case), or in date context (genitive, partitive, etc.). sort(1)'s -M option currently sorts months by testing input against only the abbrevation format, which is essentially a substring of the full format. While this works fine for languages like English, where there are no cases, for languages where there is a different case ending between the abbreviation/full and standalone formats, it is not sufficient. For example, in Greek, "May" can take the following forms: Abbreviation: Μαΐ (genitive case) Full: Μαΐου (genitive case) Standalone: Μάιος (nominative case) If we use the standalone format in Greek, sort(1) will not able to match "Μαΐ" to "Μάιος" and the sort will fail. This change makes sort(1) test against all three formats. It also works when the input contains mixed formats. [1] https://cldr.unicode.org/translation/date-time/date-time-patterns Desired Action: If so intended, please adjust the descriptions of the *ALT* series to match CLDR and be more self-descriptive as their are today. == Issue History Date ModifiedUsername FieldChange == 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenNew Issue 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenName => steffen 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenSection => langinfo.h 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenPage Number => 276 2023-12-01 21:00 steffenLine Number => 9587 pp, 9611 pp ==
