Re: [Ayatana] New design: Opening applications and documents automatically at login
Hi Matthew, in your design, is the checkbox close to the application useful for having the application minimized (as Apple do)? Said that, I have to agree with the comment from AllanDay, I am not sure why you would want a file selector considering that some applications (including browsers) already keep memory of the opened files before they quit. Cheers, chr On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.comwrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi folks For some people, it is useful to open particular applications or documents every time they log in. (For example, every day when I log in at work, I launch XChat, Firefox, and a time sheet text document.) Every version of Ubuntu has had a Startup Applications settings window for choosing applications to open automatically at login. Gnome 3 in Ubuntu 11.10 now has an integrated System Settings window (gnome-control-center). But it does not yet integrate these particular settings. So, yesterday I finished a design for these settings in the System Settings window. My design extends the existing User Accounts panel; this avoids adding an extra panel, lets administrators troubleshoot login items for other accounts, and lets them set items for the guest account. It also allows opening files, not just applications. I'd appreciate your feedback on the design. https://live.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings/LoginItems Cheers - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6gP2sACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoWiACgvXz7AU7WCnKLQQe3JLdAMMiv e+QAn0ziqngFlwI4G8Et3EDDnEGHBInU =f3De -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity Dash mockup
Hi Andras, to maximize the Dash you would use just the top-left buttons? chr 2011/11/6 András Bognár bogandm...@gmail.com Hi, I don't really like the current Dash border, so I started working on a mockup (https://plus.google.com/104888645168610370479/posts/BoAcd3c2Ek1). Different separator line, thinner dash border. I think the Dash looks nicer with the 1px border and with the new separator line the content is more focused to the user. What do you think about it? András Bognár ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Clippy has noticed you've been trying to click on notifications...
Most notifications on most platforms allow the user to interact with it so some extent, even if it's only to dismiss it. In particular, the notifications produced by MSN messenger on Windows, has people trained to click on notifications to open the application that spawned them. On 19 Nov 2011, at 03:01, Ryan Prior ryanpr...@gmail.com wrote: I've noticed that some people, when being introduced to modern Ubuntu systems, instinctively try to click on notifications when they pop up. A certain amount of exploration of the notification area is to be expected of a new user, but some are really persistent and find the blurring behavior vexing. Could we detect that the user has been dwelling the mouse in the notification area significantly more frequently than is expected, and display a simple explanation? I'd propose this language, to get us started: This is just a friendly notification. You don't need to click it, and it fades when you move your mouse near so that it can stay out of your way. Try exploring (display various indicator icons here) above. The purpose of that language is to assure the user that they are not doing something wrong, that this is how notifications are supposed to work. Users who get notifications quickly and don't try to click them won't be bothered by the message, and people who don't get it at first hopefully won't be bothered by the message very many times before they clue in. Since it's only triggered by a basically pointless user action, and provides the user a reason not to repeat that action, it wouldn't be annoying in the same way that Clippy's suggestions were, since those were triggered by expected and useful actions. Thanks, Ryan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What's up with all the non-resizable windows?
On 11/18/2011 11:03 AM, Stefanos A. wrote: To my non-expert mind, not only do the guidelines contradict themselves (fixed size 675x530 in order to fit on netbooks, but netbooks have only 490px available), but they also add invalid constraints to large monitors (invalid because a 1920x1080 monitor does not have the same constraints as a 1024x600 one). Isn't this the very issue that resizable windows are supposed to solve? Not quite. A fixed size window that is smaller than it has to be on the current display, that has more content than fits in and thus requires scrolling, is quite simply idiotic. Such a too small window, but resizable, not fixed, is better but still inconvenient. The solution to too small, and smaller than they have to be at that, windows are larger windows, not resizable windows. An example that literally had me facepalm is the Shortcuts tab in Keyboard Preferences. There's a long list for Navigation that requires scrolling, yet the dialog takes less than halve of the height that it could, on my screen! I don't want to resize such a dialog. I want it to appear with the optimal size based on its content and the current screen size. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Clippy has noticed you've been trying to click on notifications...
On 11/19/2011 04:00 AM, Ryan Prior wrote: Could we detect that the user has been dwelling the mouse in the notification area significantly more frequently than is expected, and display a simple explanation? Clippy as inspiration or comparison should raise a red flag ;) There's a risk that users who don't need that explanation will trigger it, when they have to interact with something that happens to be in the notification spot. The faded-out notifications might barely manage to be tolerable in such a situation, but an explanation popping up won't be. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What's up with all the non-resizable windows?
Another problem that is brought about by non resizable windows is dealing with error messages: they get truncated and cant be read.(e.g. software center error messages) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity Dash mockup
Hi, Yes, I think the current solution for maximize the Dash is good enough, but I made this mockup just to show how Dash look like with thinner border and different seapator line. 2011. november 19. 10:52 Christian Giordano írta, christian.giord...@canonical.com: Hi Andras, to maximize the Dash you would use just the top-left buttons? chr 2011/11/6 András Bognár bogandm...@gmail.com Hi, I don't really like the current Dash border, so I started working on a mockup (https://plus.google.com/104888645168610370479/posts/BoAcd3c2Ek1). Different separator line, thinner dash border. I think the Dash looks nicer with the 1px border and with the new separator line the content is more focused to the user. What do you think about it? András Bognár ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What's up with all the non-resizable windows?
2011/11/19 Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de On 11/18/2011 11:03 AM, Stefanos A. wrote: To my non-expert mind, not only do the guidelines contradict themselves (fixed size 675x530 in order to fit on netbooks, but netbooks have only 490px available), but they also add invalid constraints to large monitors (invalid because a 1920x1080 monitor does not have the same constraints as a 1024x600 one). Isn't this the very issue that resizable windows are supposed to solve? Not quite. A fixed size window that is smaller than it has to be on the current display, that has more content than fits in and thus requires scrolling, is quite simply idiotic. Such a too small window, but resizable, not fixed, is better but still inconvenient. The solution to too small, and smaller than they have to be at that, windows are larger windows, not resizable windows. An example that literally had me facepalm is the Shortcuts tab in Keyboard Preferences. There's a long list for Navigation that requires scrolling, yet the dialog takes less than halve of the height that it could, on my screen! I don't want to resize such a dialog. I want it to appear with the optimal size based on its content and the current screen size. If this was a resizable window, you could simply drag it to the right or to the left edge of the screen and it would automatically become optimal. A good window manager will then remember the placement and size of the window, solving the issue without any guesswork. (Yes, finding the optimal size automatically is guesswork, since different applications have different contents that might be optimal in different layouts.) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What's up with all the non-resizable windows?
2011/11/19 staticd staticd.growthecomm...@gmail.com Another problem that is brought about by non resizable windows is dealing with error messages: they get truncated and cant be read.(e.g. software center error messages) And that's the worst issue of all. It's windows-ism at its worst: fixed dialogs that cannot display the contents they are supposed to. It's awful and it's completely unecessary, both technically and conceptually. (And I'm pretty sure GTK+2 dialogs were resizable, were they not?) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Clippy has noticed you've been trying to click on notifications...
There's a risk that users who don't need that explanation will trigger it, when they have to interact with something that happens to be in the notification spot. The faded-out notifications might barely manage to be tolerable in such a situation, but an explanation popping up won't be. -- Thorsten Wilms Don't you think that would be a problem once and only once for a *few*users who trigger it wrongly? they can tell the help menu dont bug me again. I know what I'm Doing I think such heuristic active help will be very important in helping users migrate to ubuntu :P I've put on asbestos underwear in expectation of flaming / :P Alternatively, at the risk of being repetitive, notifications could accept enough *and just enough* input 1)to go away (faded-out notifications might barely manage to be tolerable)or 2)give more info : button to invoke a help dialogue (notification again) telling the user how notifications work and *when relevant* where to look for more info example help: this is a notification, telling you some news. you can ignore it and it will go away. to get more information click on the iconmail/icon icon on the top left screen corner For some thing with no indicator/status/window (what is an example for this?): this is a notification, telling you some news. you can ignore it and it will go away. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Lens Bar again!
I've file a bug to move the Lens bar to the top. Also submitted a patch.(very trivial change in code) However, there seems to be no response either on launchpad or from the ayatana-dev list which i also mailed. Bug #889438 in unity: “Move the dash lens bar to the top”https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/889438 https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/889438 Could those who wish to see this change implemented say so on launchpad? Thanks This is how my dash looks: attachment: LensBarToTop.jpg___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lens Bar again!
Den 19. nov. 2011 13:56, skrev staticd: Could those who wish to see this change implemented say so on launchpad? The Launchpad bug tracker is not meant to be a place to vote. Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lens Bar again!
On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: Den 19. nov. 2011 13:56, skrev staticd: Could those who wish to see this change implemented say so on launchpad? The Launchpad bug tracker is not meant to be a place to vote. Going by the generally positive responses in the threads proposing the move and redesign of the bar, I assumed that the vote or the discussion already concluded that it was a good idea. If I am mistaken, my bad. sorry. I wanted someone(s) with a better know of launchpad to help move the patch along( testing, accepting etc...) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lens Bar again!
Den 19. nov. 2011 14:50, skrev staticd: I wanted someone(s) with a better know of launchpad to help move the patch along( testing, accepting etc...) Oh, is there a patch? Sure I'll test it, and I'll add my findings to the bug report. Can you provide a url? Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What's up with all the non-resizable windows?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 staticd wrote on 19/11/11 11:41: Another problem that is brought about by non resizable windows is dealing with error messages: they get truncated and cant be read.(e.g. software center error messages) ... And that isn't true either. The problem with the USC error messages is a listbox that was tall enough in GTK2 but is being laid out far too short in GTK3. Making the window resizable wouldn't fix the bug. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7HnoYACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecpnEQCeIAnIqg5oG19rakNWpCHbUstF flMAoIEEv8z+FDhFBTUiMGfEkVg1PS0m =pS6p -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lens Bar again!
On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 6:26 PM, staticd staticd.growthecomm...@gmail.com wrote: I've file a bug to move the Lens bar to the top. Also submitted a patch.(very trivial change in code) However, there seems to be no response either on launchpad or from the ayatana-dev list which i also mailed. Bug #889438 in unity: “Move the dash lens bar to the top” https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/889438 Could those who wish to see this change implemented say so on launchpad? Thanks This is how my dash looks: This is not the proper way to submit design change to unity. First assign the bug to ayatana-design, this will propagate the message to the design team. Once, they discuss the idea and confirm. They'll mark it as fix-released and then the actual code can land in Unity. Things might be actually bit different but that's how I understand them Good Job and Good Luck! :) -- Owais Lone he...@owaislone.org http://www.owaislone.org ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] New design: Opening applications and documents automatically at login
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Matthew Paul Thomas wrote on 20/10/11 16:34: ... For some people, it is useful to open particular applications or documents every time they log in. ... I'd appreciate your feedback on the design. https://live.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings/LoginItems ... Thanks everyone for your feedback. I've made some changes based on your suggestions. https://live.gnome.org/action/info/Design/SystemSettings/LoginItems?action=diffrev2=18rev1=17 tommy wrote on 20/10/11 16:41: ... It would be nice if this panel could have option to start the application minimized - for example Empathy, Skype or Pidgin. That would be awkward to implement (for example, what if you choose to have one bookmark minimized and another not, and the browser opens them as tabs in the same window?), but I've added it as a possible future enhancement. And a feature, which I think some users will find useful - startup applications added by system administrator (that cannot be deleted by ordinary user) - for example some scripts that will log something, or download something to the desktop. Good idea, I've added that as a future enhancement too. Jeremy Bicha wrote on 20/10/11 17:48: ... GNOME has really overloaded the Shell term. I'd suggest renaming Add Shell Command to something like Add Custom Command. Good point. Changed. In your mockup of the Add Shell Command dialog, you show a file folder; I think that's a bad idea as the file-browser isn't really a good way to look for shell commands. Why not? You don't have to use it, but it's a place to start if you've forgotten the name of a command (e.g. epiphany-browser). If it's not too difficult to add, bash auto-completion would be cool though. Good idea. Added. ... A drop-down box for the + button is new to GNOME, isn't it? Yes, Didier Roche had far more difficulty than he should have in implementing the same thing for OneConf. It needs fixing in GTK. As a side point, I think if Name Photo Security are 2 separate subpanels, then those subpanels would be mostly empty. ... Not if the Photo panel actually let you take a photo, like the installer does. Evan Huus wrote on 20/10/11 17:50: ... One thing that I would like it to support is mounting partitions. I have my music on a separate internal NTFS partition so that it can be accessed by Windows. At the moment, the first thing I have to do when I log in is browse to that folder in Nautilus so that it gets mounted (by gvfs?). The only way currently to have a partition auto-mount on login is via /etc/fstab, which affects all users and requires root access. An Add Partition... option below the Add Shell Command... option would be absolutely fantastic. (Obviously the label and location are subject to change). ... I don't quite understand the problem here. Why do you need to mount the partition when you log in? Omar B. wrote on 20/10/11 19:37: I like where things are going here, but wouldn't it be better to have a remember session(s) option (currently xfce, kde, etc. have it), Remembering what was open when you logged out is an orthogonal problem: you might want to do that instead, or as well. The Gnome developers seem incapable of implementing it, but there was a session at UDS about making the previous partly-working implementation available once more. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-gnome-session also kde has Activities which is really great feature, is like having multiple user sessions with its own preferences, but very easy to manage, add , delete, stop ,etc. Can you give some examples of use cases for that? Sense Egbert Hofstede wrote on 22/10/11 13:53: ... I like your ideas and putting it under account management seems a good move to me. However, maybe adding three different things -- files, commands and applications -- to one list, could be confusing. Though one list certainly is a more elegant solution that separate lists. Another suggestion I have is to allow people to choose to start 'default chat client' at login, rather than specifically Empathy. This would be consistent with the approach chosen for the messages indicator and it would prevent requiring people to learn the names of all applications. It would add another type of thing to the three in the list already, though. ... As far as I know, there isn't actually such a thing as the default chat client (not to be confused with the chat client shipped on the CD). The messaging menu just pretends there is. And as long as it's practical to uninstall Empathy and install some other IM client, I think it's counterproductive to hide Empathy's identity. And as you say, it would be adding another kind of thing to the list. Thibaut Brandscheid wrote on 25/10/11 18:09: ... I tried to combine all three topics into one interface → Mock-up http://image-upload.de/image/tk0GyW/dad7cb0f55.png ...
Re: [Ayatana] New design: Opening applications and documents automatically at login
On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 4:27 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote: Evan Huus wrote on 20/10/11 17:50: ... One thing that I would like it to support is mounting partitions. I have my music on a separate internal NTFS partition so that it can be accessed by Windows. At the moment, the first thing I have to do when I log in is browse to that folder in Nautilus so that it gets mounted (by gvfs?). The only way currently to have a partition auto-mount on login is via /etc/fstab, which affects all users and requires root access. An Add Partition... option below the Add Shell Command... option would be absolutely fantastic. (Obviously the label and location are subject to change). ... I don't quite understand the problem here. Why do you need to mount the partition when you log in? My particular case is rather complex, but I think I can pull a simpler use case out of my personal mess. Here goes... --- Imagine a user who has Windows installed on NTFS, then installs Ubuntu beside it. The user decides that since Windows can't read EXT4, but Ubuntu can read NTFS, most documents and media will stay on the NTFS partition so that they are accessible by both OSes. By default, Ubuntu does not mount other partitions when the system is started, which is the safe thing to do. The partitions are displayed under 'Devices' in the Nautilus (3.0) sidebar. Clicking on one to browse it automatically mounts it via GVFS under /media/LABEL. This is fine for most use cases, since to open a document the user has to browse to it, which triggers the auto-mount. Now imagine the user opens Banshee, browses to a path on the NTFS partition (thus mounting it) and adds that path to their library. This works great, until the user reboots. If the user opens Banshee right away after a reboot, it can't find the media files, as it doesn't know anything about the separate partition (it just knows about a path starting with /media/LABEL). It freaks out and complains about missing every single file in the library. The user freaks out, since they don't know what's going on - did Ubuntu delete all of their media? --- So as it turns out, not so simple. After reflection, the correct (and more difficult) solution is to make individual applications that store libraries (like Banshee, or Calibre, or Rhythmbox, etc.) aware of GVFS such that they will trigger the auto-mount if necessary when they are started. However, a simple work-around would be to allow the user to specify partitions to be mounted on login (without editing fstab, which applies to all users and requires advanced knowledge). That last bit would fit into the proposed interface for auto-open. (Aside: could this problem also apply to MRU lists in other applications as well? If so, perhaps fixing per-application is not the correct solution and GVFS should be enhanced to watch for failed attempts to access /media/LABEL/...) Apologies for the confusion, and for wandering somewhat off-topic. Evan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
